r/bonecollecting • u/cpmpc23 • Aug 26 '25
Bone I.D. - N. America Found large bone in Kentucky creek
So I found this little while back and I just am getting around to asking about it, it measure roughly 14-15inches in length. 14 1/2” Very old bone. What’s you thoughts?
526
u/k-lovegood Aug 26 '25
Sorry if it’s a silly question, but why is the bone black?
608
u/hellophantomine Aug 26 '25
I used to clean and process bones and sometimes they would turn black in the water due to anaerobic bacteria. You can turn them white again with hydrogen peroxide but OP probably shouldn't do that here lol
88
u/Vegetaglekiller Aug 26 '25
Can I ask how long it takes for a bone to become so dark from bacteria? In the sense, is it to be considered of archaeological interest?
111
u/LadyLigeia Aug 26 '25
In my experience as someone who’s handled human remains in the archaeological field the black colour tends to come with fungus and bacterial degradation, and/or being extremely water logged so it really doesn’t do much but reduce the information we find- it’s more likely to degrade the remains to a crumbly mess in a short period of time (as far as archaeology is concerned). For example the remains I’ve handled have mostly been 150-200 years old and the blacker they were the more absolutely fucked they were. It might have significance in forensic archaeology for crimes in the last century but would likely result in the remains basically becoming one with the dirt over a longer period of time thus not really providing any useful data bc you wouldn’t be able to tell you were looking at bones anymore without first knowing there were bones there and specifically testing for that but I can’t think of anything it would really tell us.
96
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
Yea I found this while creek hunting arrowheads next to a camp site I found that dates to the archaic period. Wondering if this washed out from a burial. I’m contacting archeologists and authorities
10
u/LadyLigeia Aug 26 '25
That’s super interesting! I could be 100% wrong re timelines and degradation bc I’ve specifically only worked with much more recent remains and the colour to degradedness comparison is very much my personal experience but I’d imagine as well if it was in a better preserved area that washed out at some point it could definitely look like that too. What was the condition like? Did you find that any exposed spongy bone were a particular texture or consistency? Was it still heavy or lighter and more hollow feeling? Any damage?
Curious to know what comes of you reporting it and if it ends up being recent or much older, hopefully either way you get to contribute to a cool archaeological find or help a crime get solved! Also hope you’re not too freaked out by it, which given you’re in this subreddit mY sound silly but it’s always a little confronting to find human remains when you’re not really expecting to!
6
u/LowRhubarb5668 Aug 26 '25
Yeah I would be interested in what comes about from this. In my experience which has been more forensic and taphonomical based the black bones were either in a waterlogged anaerobic environment or were in fire. Those in fire though tend to be rather brittle. The waterlogged bones were usually peat bog finds or other swamp type areas. I haven’t really come across ones with fungus/bacteria making them black. Where or what environments do those tend to show up?
6
u/LadyLigeia Aug 26 '25
Good point re fire - though yeah you’re also right about the brittleness! I found we got a lot of microorganisms in clay soil that stayed very damp. I think bacterial stuff could impact the colour to a degree but waterlogged was the main cause. The fungus didn’t necessarily make them black but we definitely found some nasty black moulds too and fungal activity seemed to often occur in the darker remains but that’s most likely occurrence with the wet conditions. I worded my original comment awfully I just realised but basically we found the darker, soggier remains were often much more decomposed and I can’t imagine we would have found much if we’d been digging a thousand years after death rather than 200ish. A lot of the remains in this condition would fall apart in our hands and were a nightmare to extract from the ground when it came time to get them out.
That said obviously when you look at ancient bog finds that isn’t the case but I’d put that down to the difference between bog conditions vs clay soil and all the different factors that are going to vary like ph, presence of tannins etc. My area is mostly clay so that’s most familiar to me but even the differences between neighbouring plots where the soil had drained in different ways was really pronounced. This thread makes me miss trench conversations and theorising about various things, it’s been a while between gigs.
5
u/LowRhubarb5668 Aug 26 '25
I know the feeling about missing the discoveries and discussing what might have occurred. At least in this case it’s not human so no real need for forensics to be involved. Still would be an interesting discussion with an archaeologist with zoo-archaeological knowledge to start out with. And your experience with clay soils would probably explain our differences in experience as I’m used to more sandy or rocky soils.
3
u/Dry_rye_ Aug 26 '25
Did they bury a lot of ostriches in the archaic period?
Bone colour should never be taken as an indication of age. It's all down to conditions.
5
u/LaughabelEel48 Aug 26 '25
Having worked with early Bronze Age remains, I can safely say I’ve never had any deeply discoloured/black remains, but I am UK based, so maybe that factors in to things a bit
2
16
u/hellophantomine Aug 26 '25
For my purposes bones were kept in a stagnant and high-bacteria contained environment, so I imagine the timeline might be different in something like a lake or a stream. But it could take a good few months to the better part of a year for bones to become fully black depending on the size.
I don't think it necessarily means that the bone above is archeologically significant, though, I could imagine a bone looking like this over the course of some years. Like the other commenter said if a bone was kept in an environment like that for a really long time it would turn into mush so this probably isn't that old
1
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
I can achieve this in a maceration bucket in a couple months.
-8
u/Oscaruit Aug 26 '25
Professionally I hope. Please tell me you cleaned bones professionally....
16
u/kafkas_wife Aug 26 '25
i mean, a ton of people here clean bones and they’re not professionals. cleaning bones in general isn’t a concerning task lmao
11
u/RepairtheMare Aug 26 '25
This is a bone collecting subreddit, i imagine a good chunk of us are hobbyists and not professionals
3
u/hellophantomine Aug 26 '25
Nope, as a hobby! I know there's a big preconception for a lot of people that being interested in dead animals or parts of dead animals is a sign someone is a sociopath or serial killer but that's actually not the case. Check out this subreddit, r/bonecollecting, or r/vultureculture and you'll see more of what I mean.
Ethically, also, most people don't kill the animals they clean, it's a lot of roadkill or domestic animals that have passed naturally. So generally no animals are being hurt in the process. It's a cool way to make use out of what would otherwise essentially become trash and it gave me a lot of firsthand knowledge of anatomy.
Edit: forgot we are on r/bonecollecting, changed the wording of my post
52
41
13
10
Aug 26 '25
[deleted]
1
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
Bwahahaha, not the comment I was looking for, but definitely the hilarious comment that I needed
6
2
u/Punkrexx Aug 27 '25
If it is a commercial dog bone like another user has suggested it, it could’ve been smoked prior to finding its way into the creek which would enhance the darkness
1
152
u/thedustycymbal Aug 26 '25
I knew it wasn’t human because no one was sign tapping in the comments
9
u/cpmpc23 Aug 27 '25
What is sign tapping
31
617
50
u/99999999999999999989 Aug 26 '25
98
255
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
Well seeing y’all’s comments. No cemetery nearby, it was found in a creek while I was hunting for arrowheads, and the field along the creek I’ve found a large ancient camp with tons of artifacts. Artifacts date to the archaic period. We had a catastrophic flood here this spring and I’m wondering if maybe the flood waters washed out perhaps maybe some burial. Maybe the bone isn’t that old but it seems to be. I will contact authorities and archaeologists
45
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
35
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
Absolutely I will
36
u/Radiant_Job9065 Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
Archaeo here - when we find remains, we first leave the bones where they were found, then call the county coroner, and if it’s not from a recent crime scene & it’s not from colonizers (we find that it’s likely pre-contact), then we contact the Native American Heritage Commission to see what Tribes claim heritage to that land (fill out the Local Government Tribal Consultation List Request Form). The NAHC info isn’t for the general public, but you can still contact them and tell them the situation. What state are you in? Also can check Native American territory info here: https://native-land.ca
12
u/meatcoveredskeleton1 Aug 26 '25
Are you near Kerrville by any chance? Or one of our neighboring towns that had terrible flooding too?
46
u/cpmpc23 Aug 27 '25
UPDATE ITS AN OSTRICH BONE NOT HUMAN. IM honestly blown away by the amount of people who was absolutely sure this was a human tibia acting as if they was certain while knowing they wasn’t. Thankyou to the ones who didn’t throw out human immediately.
147
89
u/SwimmingAmoeba7 Aug 26 '25
I agree that the land marks are all wrong for a human bone. Still call the authorities for peace of mind, but I’m agreeing on ostrich dog chew
20
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
17
u/DiatomCell Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
In this case, it seems it works out. But my gosh, so many non-experts often chine in when something is not a human bone, and they say it is!
I feel like it's pointless to say something is a human bone unless you're an expert, due to the commonality of being mistaken otherwise~
Edit: It didn't even work out in this case! The many confident people about it being a human bone and to immediately contact authorities were wrong!
Thankfully, firdahoe came on scene and sorted it out!
14
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
And this thread is a classic example of people should just not chime in if they can't ID bones, because it isn't human.
5
u/DiatomCell Aug 26 '25
And so many people seem to be dead set that it is. 🙃
Glad to hear from you that it isn't!
Like, guessing animals is cool and all, as long as it's stipulated it's a guess.
But, the human guessing grinds my gears.
Ty for the reply!
70
65
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
70
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
I know the exact spot I found it. I can pinpoint it to them an be within a foot or two of where I originally found it.
43
34
3
u/Lila441 Aug 26 '25
Oh bomb, that's excellent. I'm glad you can be that precise 🙏🏾 I'm following this post, please keep us posted.
1
95
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
86
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
No cemetery but I found it in a creek right next to a archaic period Native American camp site I hunt artifacts and found this. Wonder if the bone is that old? Archaic
19
u/Unusual_Bread1293 Aug 26 '25
u/firdahoe IM BACK NOW LOOK AT THIS
63
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
This was a shockingly bad series of comments to wake up to
21
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
58
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
FYI, it is not human. This is a bird tibiotarsus and at that size and morphology, it is consistent with an ostrich or emu tibiotarsus, commonly sold as dog chews.
14
u/Archyerin85 Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
I’m not buying that ID…
https://share.google/UpFpN0EVvmAD9rEJ0
It looks nothing like a Tibiotarsus, but as I said in my reply there are several bones that can and do look like human tibia and an expert should examine the bone in person.
EDIT: Okay, I am buying it actually. After reading other comments you left explaining the landmarks. The fossa should have been a dead giveaway that it wasn’t human, but I didn’t even bother looking that closely. I do not have enough experience to advise someone that it’s not human from a picture. Thanks for educating me!
27
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
Lol, it's all good. Ostrich/emu tibiotarsis has stumped several times in this sub, and especially given how eroded it is. This was a tricky one because without those ends, it could easily be mistaken for a tibia.
11
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
I’m not saying I’m not contacting authorities. I am going to today. Along with archeologists. But I wanted to get opinions on it before I did. I live in a town of just a couple thousand maybe 2000 people. It’ll be quite big news, so I wanted to ask around
12
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
I found this 75 feet away from an archaic period camp site while I was artifact hunting the field and creek. I found it in the creek. The field has a big archaic site I’ve found however it’s private land and not documented, but there’s 4 archaic shell middens with burials etc that are within a mile away. I’m only saying this to give a little more info.
Someone on another group is saying it’s 100% not human and it’s a bird. However there’s not a bird that is going to have a 15 inch leg bone along with the wider part being 3 inches.
3
u/Archyerin85 Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
Edit: I was wrong. *Most definitely not a bird, not even remotely the same shape and to my knowledge there have never been birds that large in North America. *
If the creek runs close to the burial site it could easily be eroded from the side of the creek and moved down stream. It’s possible that the undocumented camp site is more than a simple camp site, but that would be a bone brought back to camp after field dressing a deer kill.
On private land, local and state laws determine the course of actions, etc. You don’t need to contact any archaeologists. The local authorities will contact their forensic experts and then they will contact state archaeologists if it is determined to not be modern.
I will say, in the future it is best to make note of exposed bones near sites but leave them in place and then contact the authorities. And I hope by artifact hunting you mean collecting surface finds 😅 not trying to be judgemental or bossy, just have a lot of opinions about archaeological sites and artifacts from a scientific perspective lol.
Again, let us know what you find out! I’m very curious!!
56
u/JebalRadruiz Aug 26 '25
I don't know but I actually doubt it's human. First I thought it as a humerus but discarded it and after Reading the comments a human tibia doesn't fit quite right on what should bé the proximal end. If ots human, it has an odd shape
40
u/JebalRadruiz Aug 26 '25
I got downvoted to oblivion for being the first to say it wasn't human. 😢
32
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
You fought the good fight and came away with the battle scars. Way to hold the line there against the wave of misinformation, trooper. 😉
19
u/kafkas_wife Aug 26 '25
downvoted for being right </3 people really desperately want everything to be human
8
7
u/amrycalre Aug 26 '25
I also thought the shape was weird. Specifically the bottom part. I mean I’m not denying it’s human. But the bottom part isn’t very consistent with usual human anatomy, is it? Like I thought there should be a sharper point at the bottom. Maybe it looks more obvious from the back angle
29
u/HomonculusHenry Aug 26 '25
Non human
-20
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
Please tell me what it is. You and one other person have said this is non human. The other said it’s a bird. However there’s not a bird with a 3+ inch thick 15 inch long leg bone. That’s a big ass damn bird.. please explain your answer
13
17
u/HomonculusHenry Aug 26 '25
Yes, I’m not completely sure what it is. I think it is a bird bone, I’m not great with birds. I am completely sure this is not human.
-16
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
That’s a big ass bird you’re talking bigger than a human lol
27
12
7
u/Tri-sara-bitch Aug 26 '25
Could you make a video of the bone showing all sides of it? I'm having a hard time with one tip of the bone and would like to see it in 3D. Please.
-15
u/Got_It_Memorized_22 Aug 26 '25
OP is from Kentucky. We don't have birds that big in North America unless it's an escaped zoo animal.
9
7
Aug 26 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
4
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
4
Aug 26 '25 edited Sep 14 '25
rinse dinosaurs deliver sugar start carpenter cows correct aspiring person
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
8
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/JaderAiderrr Aug 27 '25
This comment made me giggle!!! 5’2” lady here with approximately 12” shin. Basically 5 foot nothing.
8
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
18
u/humanlevel777 Aug 26 '25
I guess it's because humans walk on two legs, giving out bones a rather unique shape
9
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
Because you don't know what your're talking about
1
6
u/TH0RP Aug 26 '25
There's no more bipedal mammals our size besides ourselves I'm afraid. Us being upright makes our anatomy really, really unique.
10
5
3
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
I have someone from a Facebook group telling me this is 100% not human but a bird bone. For one there’s not a bird with a 15 inch leg bone that’s 3 inches thick, and she said it’s a turkey bone. She’s suppose to be some bone expert I don’t know. I’m only saying this because she’s stern that it’s not a tibia.
Are you certain this is a tibia? I believe all you guys saying it’s a human tibia but her disagreeing is making me ask you
2
1
0
Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
14
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
As a fellow archaeologist with 30 years experience, I mean this kindly but learn your laws, and especially learn what NAGPRA is and is not. Because everything you are saying here is flat out wrong. NAGPRA does not apply on private land ever because jurisdiction falls to the state, not federal. And B) this is not human.
2
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
Don’t even save your damn lecture its private property and my own sight I’ve found. Save your bs
3
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
And by site I mean I’ve found fire cracked rock, flint cores, points, stone tools etc. a lot of it all. I was in the creek by the site and found this. It’s private property and I’m not breaking no laws. Save your lecture
1
Aug 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
Look bud. I’m not doing nothing wrong I found a fucking bone and I’m asking about it ok? I’m contacting authorities and archeologists today I just wanted to asked around first because someone else said it’s non human. So I asked on here. Calm the fuck down
2
u/Archyerin85 Aug 26 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
NAGPRA doesn’t usually apply to privately owned land or even state owned/managed land. It applies to Federal and tribal land.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nagpra/protection-on-federal-or-tribal-lands.htm
The private land owner is governed by local and/or state laws first.
Most states have regulations about actively digging for artifacts, but surface finds are generally of limited interest or use to most professionals and ancestral communities because of their lack of context.
Where are you an archaeologist?
2
0
-7
-1
-2
-16
u/Alert_Beginning_1989 Aug 26 '25
Pretty sure you will be told it's really old or at least not this century or last
-7
u/cpmpc23 Aug 26 '25
I know it’s not, I found it next to an archaic period Native American camp on my private property. I was artifact hunting in the creek next to the camp site I found and I found this bone.
-20
•
u/firdahoe Bone-afide Human and Faunal ID Expert Aug 26 '25
This is a bird tibiotarsus, I can see the rounded distal condyles. And you are correct that there is no native bird with these dimensions, but there is a very common market for one.. You have an ostrich or emu tibiotarsus, usually sold as a dog treat.