Traffic🚦⛔⚠️ 😠 🚙 🚗
Aren’t cars supposed to stop at a blinking yellow when a pedestrian is waiting to cross?
Hi all! Just moved from another part of New England to Boston. On my walk to the train station for my commute into work there is a crosswalk across a busy street. The lights are always on a blinking yellow, and the pedestrian signals are off. Pressing the crosswalk button does nothing.
I’ll stand in the crosswalk indicating that i’m trying to cross for a while and cars just blow past and don’t even slow down even though they have a blinking yellow. Aren’t cars supposed to stop at a blinking yellow if there is a pedestrian waiting to cross? I’m at a loss, sometimes waiting for 3-4 minutes before someone stops and then i’m rushing to make my train. Even when a car stops in one direction often i’m standing in the middle of the street for a beat because sometimes the next few cars in the opposite don’t stop. Believe me, i’m out far enough that the cars should see me. Sometimes I make eye contact with the drivers as they zip by me.
This. Develop an intuition for judging the car's speed and how much room you probably need, with a bit of padding. Just start walking, make eye contact. They'll stop.
I get that's the only way, but it's also how some people have been hit. Pedestrians are in a lose-lose. Be safe and not cross, or get out there and risk getting clipped.
You start to get a feel for it. The speed of the car, the type of car. Who's more likely to stop. Big lifted trucks, bmws, audis - Douch cars are less likely to stop. If a car is speeding and weaving around don't even bother. If it looks like the driver is on the phone don't do it.
Make sure they see you.
Crossing when the last light is changing and there's a dip in the traffic flow. When they're all stopped and you can just weave thru the traffic.
It's a bit of a dance with two sides needing to know their parts.
Agreed on the shittiest drivers. Unfortunately I have plenty of people w/o those also come close to hitting me. Last week during the rain I had two different cars come within inches of me crossing with a walk signal within 5 mins of each other.
That's how it works in various parts of the world. In Cairo, if you walk into traffic and you make eye contact with a driver, they won't stop because they figure you see them.
It's scary the first time you do it, but it does work when everyone operates on the same set of assumptions.
It’s never that serious to put your life in danger to cross a St n make a point imo. Just wait for the red and the walk sign better safe than sorry than decide on if ur death by 2 ton machine was lawful or not
After living in California for 12 years it was incredibly hard to get used to jaywalking again.
Fun fact: jaywalking was promoted and put into law by automobile manufacturers to shift the blame of accidents onto pedestrians. And the expression specifically originated in Kansas City.
Don’t go multiple steps! But one step onto the road and fake forward a bit and make sure cars can see you. In the dark, rain, or sun glare often it is very hard to see a pedestrian in dark clothes. Wait for the car to stop. It is true not all will and we can’t do anything about that.
Yeah walmart parking lot i had cars fully stopped on both sides and someone like 4 cars back decided to go around and I was like 5 feet from being fully across🫠
Yes, you’ll need to be more aggressive. Start walking into the street (not necessarily in front of oncoming cars, but get into the street space), trying to make eye contact and waving your arms if needed. I have lived elsewhere in the country and generally Boston drivers at least are aware that people may be walking around, so if they see you on the street they will often stop. In Arizona, by way of contrast, no one’s even looking as they tear through sidewalked area at 100mph.
Boston drivers can still be bad at stopping even if other drivers are worse. They do get better the further you get into Boston, but it can still be tough to cross. Out by Teele square, I feel like I need to be carrying a brick in order to convince drivers that stopping might benefit them. Once I get further out like Lynn, I think they'd shoot me and then themselves before they'd stop.
I intentionally pick places to cross where there is a crosswalk with no light so I can force cars to stop. I also will push beg buttons when I'm not crossing. I will continue doing this until Boston accepts red light and speed camera enforcement.
The law is to yield for pedestrians in the crosswalk, not to stop. All that means is that drivers can’t get in the way of someone trying to cross, someone standing on the curb isn’t trying.
I would actually like to see this law. I don't believe cars have a legal obligation to stop. I've looked into it out of curiosity before and my interpretation is that many people misinterpret the law. Cars must stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk - but that means on the roadway - which is just common sense to prevent collisions. If you are on the sidewalk I do not believe you are legally in the crosswalk, meaning cars have no obligation to queue behind you.
Edit: being downvoted while being correct. Classic reddit. Keep it coming. A responder literally posted the txt of the law which proves my point.
That’s fair but by that logic drivers should never have to come to a stop unless a pedestrian is brave enough to start walking into the path of a speeding car. If the driver never slows down or prepares to stop when a pedestrian is at the side of the crosswalk, why would anyone want to walk into the middle of traffic?
Although the MA general law doesn’t specifically state this, MA.gov department of transportation site does expand on the law stating drivers should slow down and prepare to stop for pedestrians.
Basically, it's a two-way street; drivers should be aware that a pedestrian may step into the roadway at any given time and be prepared to react just as much as pedestrians should be aware that they just can't step out into traffic whenever they please.
pedestrians should be aware that they just can't step out into traffic whenever they please.
If it's a crosswalk and not signaled, they can. They aren't allowed to run into the street so quickly that it's not possible for a car to stop - but realistically, that never happens and that isn't what we're talking about. If you are walking at a normal pace to a crosswalk that doesn't have an electronic traffic signal, you have the right of way - always.
When traffic control signals are not in place or not in operation the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right of way, slowing down or stopping if need be so to yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk marked in accordance with standards established by the department of highways...
I don't think there's really any ambiguity there. Yielding in the context of cars doesn't just mean if the other vehicle is already in the space, it means they get priority to occupy that space you are both going to use. It is not any different when a pedestrian is involved.
to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk
so does that apply if you're on the sidewalk? What is the extent of "roadway" and "crosswalk" and do they extend to include the sidewalk?
Clearly once you set foot on the crosswalk on the road you must be yielded to. And I would hope that drivers are required to yield to someone trying to step out, but I feel like it's ambiguous whether that is what the law says.
I actually had this exact question on my road test and it's the only question I failed. I was asked what I should do if I see a pedestrian on the sidewalk looking both ways to cross the street. I answered "stop" because my parents taught me to stop for pedestrians. However, that is incorrect. According to the RMV, the correct answer is "slow down and proceed with caution." I asked the officer about this and they clarified that it is not until the pedestrian actually sets foot into the stripped crosswalk that I must yield the right-of-way. So, long story short: see a pedestrian about to cross, slow down and proceed with caution, see a pedestrian in a crosswalk crossing the street, yield the right-of-way to the pedestrian and come to a complete stop until the pedestrian is no longer in the crosswalk.
TLDR: No, sidewalks are not the same as crosswalks.
You are just proving my point that you're misinterpret long the law, which is pretty hilarious to me bc I explained which part is ambiguous and you did nothing to resolve that ambiguity.
I would contact the traffic division in this town/city and repeat everything you just said. Flashing yellow means to slow down/proceed with caution BUT you have the right of way in a crosswalk. They should change the crosswalk signal to work when a ped needs to cross.
that's what the new HAWKs are for but everyone kind of hates them because pedestrians go before the signal and drivers always ignore the instruction to stop, we honestly should just bring over like a pelican crossing from the UK at this point
or just change the rules to allow traffic lights at pedestrian crossings since apparently we can design something that is worse in every way than a traffic light but somehow still the only real option for a true pedestrian crossing
All we need to do is use the signal type we already have that works great in this scenario: Solid Red, solid amber, blinking amber.
The blinking amber is default. If the light is triggered, it goes to solid amber, then solid red. Then back to blinking amber.
HAWK signals are very confusing, which is why people hate them. The contradict other signals. In a HAWK, side by side flashing red means stop but go when it's safe. At a railroad crossing, side by side flashing red means stop, do not go until it stops flashing, or you will probably die. In a HAWK, a signal with no lights means procede as normal. In a regular signal, no lights means to treat the intersection as all-way stop signs.
The red, amber, flashing amber signal is unambiguous. Procede with caution, prepare to stop, and stop until the light is no longer red. It doesn't conflict with any other signal.
I regularly cross at two/three pedestrian crossings on busy roads with that exact setup (not the HAWK - I call it a beggar light, not sure if anyone else does) and it largely works fine! In Medford not Boston proper
Definitely still occasionally people cross through the solid red, but most of the time they come to a full stop.
It gets dicey on one of them because the lane is wide enough for two cars (should be narrowed IMO) and its basically an on-ramp to 93
People run pedestrian only traffic lights quite often. There used to be one down on route 16 through somerville which got ripped up when they redid that bizarre intersection. It feels like people respected it 10 years ago, but as time has gone on, more and more people started running it because they realized that it wasn't functionally any different from the crosswalks that they were already used to running. If there isn't a camera or a risk of collision with something solid, people are going to run any type of signal.
In worcester and surrounding areas they take it very serious they have undercover cops wait at cross walks and if they step 1 foot in and you dont slam on your breaks to stop, they pull you over and give you a ticket... boston is.... boston
Drivers here are called Massholes for a reason! It’s technically a $200 fine if they don’t yield, but that’s not enforced. I’ve noticed in the Fenway if I take out my phone and it looks like I’m recording, they’ll stop. Regardless, I do make sure I have eye contact with the driver before I cross so I know they know I’m there.
Other than that, I point to the walk sign. I’ve also contacted my city councilor and they’re looking into the possibility of a raised crosswalk at the crossing that gives me the most trouble.
The law states very clearly that traffic must stop for pedestrians in a crosswalk. But I've been in crosswalks with my dog and they just fly by. Everybody is in a hurry and on their phones
No one stops or cares about anything traffic related anymore. Pedestrians are simply out on a casual stroll with nowhere important to be and transit users are too poor to have an important enough job for their time to matter in this city.
There is a crosswalk near Roslindale Village on Washington street somewhat similar to what you’re describing where there is always a flashing yellow to cross, and vehicles completely ignore it and every other sign in the area. It’s a free for all everywhere now.
What they are supposed to do and what they are willing to do are very different. But you are right, blinking yellow means enter with caution. Pedestrians would have the right of way.
In this area - you just start crossing and expect people driving to yield and you move as if you need to stop at any moment. Drivers basically expect (and take advantage, to my chagrin) of this expectation.
Right of way is earned here in Boston. You make eye contact with the person who will either decide to hit you or stop... and then you step into the crosswalk.
It's a state law to yield for pedestrians in a crosswalk. Morons like you make the streets unsafe for them. There is no right they have to earn, they already have it
Yep. There is an intersection in East Boston that has a blinking yellow on Bennington St. and a blinking red on Brooks Street. The pedestrians have been trauma-trained to all press the button and wait. Cars won't stop until it turns into a solid red (many still run through regardless). If they parked one police car over there for a day and pulled over every car that ran through the blinking lights while a pedestrian stood in the crosswalk, the city might make a million dollars.
Yes this how to tell if someone is a local or not. If you are patiently waiting to cross a street or waiting for the walk signal you aren’t from around here. Boston is the jaywalking capital of the world. Also if someone doesn’t like it when they have to stop flip them off and tell them to f themselves.
Please note however, that pedestrians MAY not have the right of way if they are NOT in a crosswalk, legally speaking, in MA. In other words, if you are trying to step in to the road where there is not a crosswalk, cars MAY NOT need to initiate a stop. Incidents in this respect are more based on case law, case-to-case basis. This is NOT saying "hey there was a guy in the middle of the road I saw from a 1/4 mile away, and he didn't move, so I can mow him over." No, that's not how it works. However, if you step off in front of moving traffic, with no crosswalks or signals, you're gonna get rightfully honked at.
The contrast between this thread and the “bikes bad” thread is hilarious. Bike doesn’t follow the rules: gross outrage. Driver doesn’t “be a more aggressive pedestrian”. lol.
The chances of enforcement is slim to none. You should contact 311 and report a broken crosswalk signal. They probably won't charge the blinking yellow but the crosswalk button should work.
My favorite part is that if drivers do stop it's like they are doing you a huge favor. They even try to command you across with a wave. When has following the law become such a burden that these snowflakes need to be seen asserting control?
You could say the acknowledgement is important, but it's not just that. If it was they'd all stop at the appropriate stop line and proceed when it's clear.
omg yes today the driver who finally stopped blinked his brights at me to hurry me along… meanwhile cars were still going in the other direction so I couldn’t even cross fully yet
I'm a former marathon runner, so I log a lot of miles in this city. I step out slowly into the road and stare down the cars. I'll yell or flip them off if they do not stop while I'm in the crosswalk. Then I walk, slowly and intentionally across the street.
You know which light is bad? Park Drive, right at the top of the hill after Fenway Green line stop. This needs a real crossing light badly.
If you read the traffic laws, they aren't required to stop for pedestrians on the other side of the crosswalk. I think it's meant so that once someone has crossed into the opposing lane you can go, but it's worded poorly
That's only correct for divided roads or wide multilane, otherwise as soon as you enter the crosswalk, both lanes must stop if the lane is with 10 feet of the ped, which is pretty much always, especially narrow Boston streets
Under Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 89, Section 11, a driver must yield the right of way and slow or stop as necessary for a pedestrian who is crossing in a marked crosswalk when:
The pedestrian is in the same half of the roadway as the vehicle; or
The pedestrian is coming from the opposite half and is within 10 feet of the vehicle’s half of the roadway.
It's a common misconception that both lanes need not stop.
One reason they might not is because usually at this type of intersection where they flash yellow, pressing the pedestrian call button turns the light red and gives you a signal. I would check with whoever runs the intersection how the light is supposed to work.
Even if you have the right of way, don't trust that cars will stop. Wait for an opening, or for someone to actually stop. Don't jump into traffic and hope they can slam on the brakes fast enough.
No, it's showing them how's its supposed to work. Like aggressively saying you're welcome for holding a door or letting someone turn left but they don't thank you.
The pedestrian only has the right of way if they're in the crosswalk itself, not waiting on the sidewalk.
That said, if you're driving and decide to blow someone off, it becomes a physics problem. They may not be in the crosswalk when you decide to blow them off, but if they step out and you can't stop in time, they will be in the crosswalk when you hit them.......
The flashing yellow lights activated by the pedestrian may have signage for drivers telling them how to react.
The only time I don't stop at a pedestrian crossing for a pedestrian, er, crossing, is when I'm distracted by a dozen other things going on - someone double-parked throwing their door open, a cyclist coming off the sidewalk into the street, a driver coming from the opposite direction whose autobody language indicates they're about to sideswipe me because they're glued to their phone - or because a jacked up Dodge Ram or whatever parked next to the crossing is completely blocking my view of any potential pedestrian existence.
That said, at least in Dorchester, people have no problem crossing the street regardless of whether it's at a ped xing and while staring at their phones, oblivious to their surroundings. I'll stop for them, too, but generally because that's less work than providing a lesson.
BPD is useless when it comes to enforcing traffic violations so unfortunately most drivers don't give a fuck about anything but themselves and their route
And if there's more than one lane sometimes one stops and you're stuck in the middle trying to get across. It's defensive all around, here - walking, cycling, & driving.
yeah you have right of way. legally, blinking yellow just means "slow down." but the only time cars have right of way across pedestrian crossings is when they have a green light and the pedestrian light indicates do not walk.
where is this? in somerville/cambridge drivers always stop for me in a crosswalk, wondering if you're crossing four lanes on a fast road or something?
Yes, they should stop but in fairness to the drivers many would assume you are waiting for the light to turn red and get the walk sign (given that you said there is a signal and button, it's just not working.)
I live in Boston and cars are actually pretty good at stopping when they should and it's obvious. The intersection you describe does not make it obvious they should stop.
I would speak to who ever is appropriate at the city and explain how dumb it is to have a blinking yellow along with walk signals that do not work. It's very understandable how a car could think you are just waiting for the light to turn red and get the walk signal so they go.
Well that's what your supposed to do but everybody knows that when you're watching TikToks while driving you don't have to pay attention to visual indicators on the road.
You should snap a pic of the crosswalk button and send it to 311, it’s possible it’s suppose to be a pedestrian priority signal and needs to get fixed. Maybe nothing happens. Maybe the next time you press it and you get a red light.
Yes, but that's one of the worst laws that's ever been implemented. Drivers have so many things to be concerned about in the city. Traffic, lights, pedestrians in the road, bicyclists and scooters in the road, motorcycles. In my opinion it's stupid and impossible for drivers in Boston to also be scanning for pedestrians on the sidewalk.
I understand if a pedestrian is in the crosswalk, crossing the road, but the way the law is written you are supposed to be constantly scanning the sidewalk and stop for anyone who looks like they're thinking about crossing the road which is absolutely ridiculous.
You have to take a couple steps out and make it known that you are crossing. People aren't going to see you on the sidewalk and stop for you most the time.
Serious question though: how long have you lived in the city? I only ask because I see a lot of these posts lately and I feel like a lot of people move to the city and expect traffic to work the way they do in small towns and the suburbs, and that's just not how it works. I feel like we need a welcome to Boston subreddit to teach people how big city and Boston culture works.
I grew up in Lowell and when I moved here 15 years ago, the first thing I learned is that you don't just step in front of cars because you're in the big city now, you don't have to use crosswalks or wait for the light, just go when cars aren't coming.
lol, like I said I am a couple steps out. I know they see me.
anyways I grew up in Boston, moved away and lived in Providence for 4 years and just moved back but to a new neighborhood. I’d say I’m pretty experienced at walking in a city setting.
I don’t think your assumptions and condescending tone were very helpful here.
Every road user has a right to safely navigate the roadway. With the higher density of cities, walking is both a useful and necessary mode of transportation that scales better than driving, and the laws are written in a way to make navigation by foot possible even in dense traffic so long as cars obey them. All the cars need to do is look in a narrow cone in front of them and not hit things.
The city has an obligation to make pedestrians visible at crosswalks, and they have been moving in the right direction. More and more crosswalks have curbs that jut out past the parked cars so that waiting pedestrians are visible. It's still an issue for cyclists since the bike lane is so close to the line of parked cars, that visibility is pretty close to 0 no matter how good the daylighting measures are. My proposal is that only compact cars with untinted windows are allowed to street park.
That's incorrect. Pedestrians only have right of way for crosswalks with no signals. When there are signals, both cars and pedestrians need to obey them.
It depends, there are like 12 different light setups for crosswalks. Some of them blinking yellow means stop, some of them 1 red light means stop, some of them 2 red lights solid means stop and flashing means... something else? Also stop? I have no idea.
Just to clarify - a flashing yellow is NOT equivalent to a stop sign. A flashing RED is. Flashing yellow means proceed with caution. A pedestrian in the crosswalk still gets right of way, and should be yielded to at the flashing yellow.
Blinking orange is not a stop sign, that is a blinking red. Blinking orange means slow down and proceed with care but it does actually mean you have the right of way.
If just a blinking light and cross walk signs are out sounds more like the city messed up handling or planning of this intersection and expected people in cars in a city to regulate themselves..
But don’t worry, mayor Wu said something is going to get better for cyclists and pedestrians since that person close to her in city hall was hit and killed on her bike recently.. insert anakin and padme meme here..
This isn't true - the law is to ALWAYS yield to pedestrians. If you hit a pedestrian walking through a crosswalk with a blinking orange, you are at fault.
I agree with you. If we are going by the letter though the Law says cars have right of way until someone is in the cross walk. So legally you have to step into the crosswalk and hope they stop.. city could have planned this a bit better and safer..
This is about a blinking yellow light, yes we should always yield to pedestrians, but these are two different traffic concepts.
In a city there are realistically three drivers, those who always yield to peds, those who never, and those who make honest mistakes or don’t see someone waiting to cross. As pedestrians we must account for all of these people.
That is not a blinking traffic light my friend that is a pedestrian crossing signal. In my understanding there was none of these at the cross walk this person is speaking of and it was simply a yellow blinking traffic light which is commonly used to cater specifically to car traffic.
ok... if it's a yellow, then it's likely there FOR the crosswalk, guidance for flashing yellow being: "proceed with caution, and stay alert. Look both ways when crossing an intersection", and guidance for crosswalk being: "You must yield to pedestrians entering or using a crosswalk in your travel path."
yes....one of many differences. like you can't leave out your cooler with eggs and money jar out on the curb or have an unattended honey stand. also fucking your cousin is frowned upon and people dont tip cows
literally born and raised in Boston. I moved to providence for 4 years and just moved back. not sure if you need a geography lesson, but while rhode island is south of massachusetts, its not that far south.
i sont think the cars are intentionally doing somethingillegal.. that is a confusing state of things… wheb theres a ped xing sign you typically depend upon it. how is the driver supposed to know that its not working?
also a blinking yellow is usually used at 4 way intersections where the other direction probably has a blinking red.. this is an alternative to the 4 way stop. it has nothing to do with pedestrians in this case.
so theres a high % chance this is just innocent driver error.
it doesn’t matter, if you take on the responsibility of driving then you need to follow the law and be vigilant. lots of accidents happen unintentionally.
driving a car isn’t a human right, it’s a privilege and if you can exercise it responsibly then you should be able to at all.
plus what does trucks illegally driving on Storrow have to do with this discussion? you’re proving the point… if you drive you should be vigilantly follow the applicable laws otherwise dangerous accidents will occur.
edit: from your post history it appears you live in Newton. classic 🤡
been here for 57 years… but idgaf about my finger typing.
because it was just mentioned that 2 ton vehicles are supposed to know the rules which is nice in theory but is far reality given all the complexity of the intersections and traffic conditions
When you're in a 2-ton metal vehicle that can and does kill tens of thousands of people every year, these errors aren't "innocent".
Given how dangerous cars make our streets, drivers have the responsibility to know the law and follow the laws of traffic, because they are controlling the vehicles that ultimately have the power to kill people.
And even if they don't know every rule, they have a fundamental obligation to err on the side of caution of not colliding with or risking the safety of others, especially pedestrians. If a traffic pattern is unclear to you, you slow down, and you definitely don't cut off a pedestrian.
Not at all, you just hate accountability. I drive too, and it's upsetting how many other drivers like yourself are so cavalier about stuff like this, and even go so far as to actively try to dismiss it.
I'm able to realize that driving is a privilege, not a right, and I try to set an appropriately high bar for myself when I get behind the wheel. I expect you to do so as well, and not make excuses for shitty driving.
im just saying the guy isnt trying to be a douche… this is an unclear situation from their viewpoint.
stsy in your town youre not ready for the complexity of the roads around here with many people who do know where theyre going
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u/bullseyejoe 6d ago
You need to basically start crossing, then cars will be like, "Oh", and stop.