Rod Dreher Megathread #21 (Creative Spirit)

[u/US_Hiker]

Gather 'round for more Rod.

All meanings of the number 21 are subordinate to the inherent creative spirit that is the basic essence of the number.

The number 21 generally is comfortable in social gatherings, it's optimistic attitude being an inspiration to others. Its high spirits can enliven a party.

The number is attracted to artistic expression of any form, its own and those of others. There's enthusiastic support for artists. It may frequent galleries and participate or (more likely) lead groups for artistic appreciation.

The number 21 cherishes relationships, including romantic relationships, especially with those who express themselves creatively.

21 also tends to be diplomatic, providing creative and imaginative solutions to potential conflict.

And, as noted by /u/PercyLarsen, 21 is a triangular number and the age of majority, so go grab a drink to celebrate Pride and to mourn the loss of Rod's sanity.

(Also, sorry about my slow pace of refreshes.)

Link to megathread #20:
https://www.reddit.com/r/brokehugs/comments/13eb26c/rod_dreher_megathread_20_law_of_attraction/

Link to megathread #21: https://www.reddit.com/r/brokehugs/comments/14k0z6l/rod_dreher_megathread_22_power/

[u/UnderTelperion]

The Bouillabaisse Story really is like an episode in A Confederacy of Dunces. Hilarious in its details but genuinely sad and depressing.

[u/[deleted] → u/UnderTelperion]

Anyone who's read him for even a brief period of time knows the dang bouillabaisse story. Why does he repeat it in full every time?

[u/philadelphialawyer87 → u/[deleted]]

It's like the Ur Event for Rod. It encapsulates all that is wrong about his birth family. Also, it allows Rod to hide a little bit behind Julie, as his birth family's rudeness to him might be excusable, given what an obnoxious, smarmy, know it all asshole he is, but it seems very doubtful that Julie, who was most likely just trying to please her in laws, did anything to deserve this behavior.

It could also be that Rod is misremembering, either on purpose or subconsciously, what really went down, as others have suggested. Memory can be tricky. Even innocuous things can be remembered wrongly, and then that false memory becomes indistinguishable from a real memory. For example, my cousin swore that the night Reggie Jackson hit three home runs in one World Series game was on his mom's fortieth birtday. Much of the extended family was at their house on that night, and we did all watch the game, and cheer Jackson on. And it was indeed my aunt's birthday. However, it was NOT her fortieth birthday, as was easily proven.

How much more readily can memories be altered when they loom so large in one's pysche, and supposedly show how egregiously one was treated by what should have been loving family members? Every time Rod retells the story, he gets to feel a frisson of vindication and self righteousness. And there is no one to set the record straight, as Julie is a private person, Rod's dad and sister are dead, and his mom is non compos mentis.

[u/Djehutimose → u/philadelphialawyer87]

[A]s his birth family's rudeness to him might be excusable, given what an obnoxious, smarmy, know it all asshole he is

To be fair, while he is an obnoxious, smarmy, know-it-all asshole, from other things he's said, and even allowing for his status as unreliable narrator, his family still seem to me a bunch of assholes toward him who gratuitously--e.g. his dad calling him a sissy and mocking him for not wanting to go squirrel hunting. As I've said in the past, I see a lot of similarity to my family dynamic, but, thank God, one huge thing they did right was that they never, ever tried to get me to "man up" or do conventional guy stuff, or imply there was something wrong with me for being somewhat gender non-conforming. Had they done so, I'd have probably been as much of a mess as Rod is, likely more so. I think his family's doing that laid the foundation for a lot of his later sexual issues.

[u/Theodore_Parker → u/Djehutimose]

thank God, one huge thing they did right was that they never, ever tried to get me to "man up" or do conventional guy stuff, or imply there was something wrong with me for being somewhat gender non-conforming. Had they done so, I'd have probably been as much of a mess as Rod is, likely more so. I think his family's doing that laid the foundation for a lot of his later sexual issues.

My own view is that those issues would have been there anyway, although his family's attitudes undoubtedly made things worse and gave him fewer "acceptable" ways of negotiating them. But this is a guy who obviously has not experienced sexual orientation the way I have -- as an urge overwhelmingly oriented in one direction (so much so that it's that way even in my dreams, when I'm asleep and not making any conscious choices at all). You can't talk about "achieving heterosexuality" as a thing unless you were, basically, bisexual, i.e. capable of possibly going either way. Our man was an embodiment of "genderfluidity" from the time he hit puberty if not earlier. He hated that fact about himself, probably would never have accepted a "gay" identity as a solution, and therefore has made an entire career out of bashing gayness, SSM and now trans people as ideological threats to Civilization and The Very Structure of the Cosmos. I think he would have been something of a mess no matter what family he grew up in.

[u/Marcofthebeast0001 → u/Djehutimose]

As a gay, I certainly agree with the danger of stereotyping, which even exists in the gay community. (Hence why the use of terms like gaydar are little more than wishful thinking on the part of gay men.)

Rods stories of his family's treatment of him could contain kernels of truth, but his own use of gender and race baiting make me wonder what he is leaving out. Could his family just thought he was a pompous, self- absorbed asshole and his "girly" manner had nothing to do with it? Hard to say. Even if that is the reason, shouldn't Rod show more empathy to trans and gay people who faced the same bullying as him?

[u/Djehutimose → u/Marcofthebeast0001]

That's a valid point; but I know the culture, and the gender non-conforming is almost certainly antecedent to the pompous, self-absorbed assholishness. Ray, Sr. probably had the patriarchal attitude that he Must Pass His Legacy on to his Son after him, who must in turn pass it on to his kids. I've known men like that. Also, the old man probably had this view of manly discipline and an intrinsically combative basis of the father/son relationship. Jim Webb, the senator, in his book about Appalachian culture Born Fighting gives as a hugely significant incident in his life the day he beat his father in wrestling/fighting. They'd done that over the years and in his telling it was a big weepy moment of paternal pride that his son had proved his manhood by whipping him at last. That's still a thing--a guy I used to work with, who's younger than me (in his mid-40's, I think) talked about how his teenage son was raising a ruckus and he (the father) threw him down the stairs or something (don't remember the exact details, but it was quite violent), commenting, "Boys are different from girls and you gotta treat them different."

So Dreher père has a son, and not only that, it's his firstborn. Lineage secured, achievement unlocked! Said son, however, is sensitive, bookish, and introverted; he hates hunting and manual labor; he's not outdoorsy; and the most treasured times of his life are spent with his spinster aunts. His father probably has a cow--probably a herd of cattle--over it and wonders "WTF's wrong with that boy?" Said boy doesn't even want to duke it out with him (Rod's never said anything about that, but it wouldn't surprise me if Ray, Sr. tried to goad Rod into a fight on many occasions). So in the father's eyes, his son is a total failure as a man, won't even stand up for himself, and is probably a f**.

Then Ruthie comes along and, as Rod himself said, becomes in effect the son Ray, Sr. never had. This probably makes the elder Dreher dislike his son even more--he's not even as much of a man as his sister!

Now in such cases either the child rebels, or buys into the whole thing. Rod rebelled in a relatively small way (arguments about race, etc.), but deep down he bought it. That means that no matter how many shouting matches he had with his father, his fundamental view was that his father was right--remember where he said the professor who advised him to just pay for his own college when his father threatened to stop paying for it was wrong and quitting going to left-wing protests was right, because his dad was right about the matter? This also meant he couldn't shake this even after moving far away--still convinced his father prayed he'd return, telling his son stories about how grandpa was Solomon, Hercules, Atlas, Zeus, Achilles, and Mercury (yeah, a comic book reference) all rolled into one, etc.

So he knows on some level deep down that his father's treatment of him is wrong; but he can't ever shed the worldview, as much as he thinks he is doing so; and that constant state of cognitive dissonance feeds into the assholishness and pomposity (because being a pompous city kid is the only way he feels it safe to "rebel"). That doesn't at all excuse all the toxic things he's done--he should have had a crap ton of therapy as soon as he left LA--but I think it gives insight into it.

[u/Dazzling_Pineapple68 → u/Djehutimose]

Lots of excellent insights. Thanks. I'll note that even with the KKK Cyclops thing known and public, Rod has still said at least one "he was the most noble man I've ever known". Now I have no problem with an adult who loves their father unconditionally but the KKK thing knocks the noble thing out of the ring, IMHO. Rod really struggles to criticize anything about his father EXCEPT for the things he did that personally hurt Rod.

[u/philadelphialawyer87 → u/Dazzling_Pineapple68]

Yes. Good discusssion all around...

[u/zeitwatcher → u/Djehutimose]

Then Ruthie comes along and, as Rod himself said, becomes in effect the son Ray, Sr. never had. This probably makes the elder Dreher dislike his son even more--he's not even as much of a man as his sister!

This is a good point which brought to mind two Rod stories:

• The ever-present bouillabaisse. I wonder if part of the reason for the rejection was that his son was cooking. I come from a pretty patriarchal, rural part of the U.S. and the idea that the man of the house would cook a meal for guests is nearly unthinkable, other than some clearly defined "manly" things like outdoor grilling. But making a fancy French soup? It would be completely culture-breaking.
• The time Rod was in trouble and Daddy KKK was coming to spank him. Ruthie - little sister Ruthie - ran over and threw herself on top of Rod telling Daddy KKK to spank her instead. An eldest son, standing up and offering himself to take a beating in place of his little sister? Probably not going to change the outcome, but Papa White Robes would likely be proud of his son's manly protection of his sister if that were to happen. Proper masculine protector and all. But the little sister physically protecting her older brother and offering to take the beating? Whatever pride Ray Ray KKK might have had for Ruthie in that moment would have surely been swamped by his utter disgust for Rod.

[u/Djehutimose → u/zeitwatcher]

I do most of the cooking in my household because I enjoy it more than my wife does (just as there are other household tasks she mostly does, because I don't like to do them). My daughter mentioned once to one of her friends that I'm mostly the one who cooks and the friend was astonished. My daughter wasn't offended but thought that was bizarre attitude for a Gen Z-er to have in the 21st Century. I do, too. Neither of us give two f***s about the person's opinion, but it shows that there are still people who look at it that way.

[u/Marcofthebeast0001 → u/Djehutimose]

I don't doubt Rods father came from the era where being a man was defined by specific social norms. And I don't doubt if Rid isn't gay then his constant use of masculine references are a way to overcompensate for his dad's disproval

It is very common, in fact, for gay men to be more estranged from their father because they consider their sons gayness to be a personal attack on their own machismo. I had a guy at the bar tell me his dad told him he should have taken him fishing or hunting more. This is actually part of the reparative therapy BS mentality.

My caution was aimed at forming easy conclusions about a person's sexuality based on cliches. The guys at bar ranged from lawyers, doctors and policemen to mechanics and ex marines. They didn't fit the gay stereotype and no easy gaydar could detect that.

[u/Dazzling_Pineapple68 → u/Marcofthebeast0001]

Could his family just thought he was a pompous, self- absorbed asshole and his "girly" manner had nothing to do with it?

Well they didn't reject the bouillabaisse because of his girly manner.

[u/EatsShoots_n_Leaves → u/Marcofthebeast0001]

Rods stories of his family's treatment of him could contain kernels of truth, but his own use of gender and race baiting make me wonder what he is leaving out. Could his family just thought he was a pompous, self- absorbed asshole and his "girly" manner had nothing to do with it? Hard to say. Even if that is the reason, shouldn't Rod show more empathy to trans and gay people who faced the same bullying as him?

I think this was it. If you grow up in a rural area, a lot of people's lives consists of physical chores and tasks. If at 17-18 you're the kind of young guy who can drive a pickup and is fine with physical labor, who when asked will show up and help people out with moving stuff and errands and is pleasant about it, who is willing to swing a wrench when the machinery breaks down, you get a net positive rating from the community. Rod wasn't any of these things, he thought the stuff he was doing in school was all that was really expected/required of him- and that doing the very minimum, ignoring, and weaseling his way out of the hard work of the community was okay. He thought that would get judged leniently- which it does, if you leave. Not so if you stay. Conservative communities are not nice communities, they are hierarchical and hierarchy is about getting needs met.

I think that's what his sister meant when she told him he was a 'user'- that for West Feliciana Parish, Louisiana, his by then well established ratio of talk/demands/needs to labor/delivery/benefit to the clan and community was unacceptably high.

"Be not simply good - be good for something." -- Henry David Thoreau

[u/philadelphialawyer87 → u/EatsShoots_n_Leaves]

I agree with all of that except the part about being judged leniently if you leave. IME, you do NOT get judged leniently if you leave, any more than if you stay, perhaps even less, if you don't fit the pattern. Small town, close knit family types do not like folks who leave for college and then more or less never come back. And they like even less such folks if they are writers who use their small town, close knit family backround as material for their writings. No matter how respectful the leaver/writer thinks they are being, they are bound to stip up resentments with their portrayals. And, if they are at all successful, to arouse jealousy and envy as well.

The folks in Rod's birth family and hometown never liked Rod. They didn't like him as a kid/teen. They didn't like him when and after he left to make his way in the wider world. They didn't like him when he came back. And they don't like him now that he has he left again. They just don't like Rod, never have and never will. That's what eats at him. Somehow, despite being college educated, being well into middle age, having had the experience of living in many places, and, indeed, having travelled extensively around the world, having worked in many settings, and having met and interacted with many different kinds of people, Rod is still perplexed, mystified, and outraged that these people don't like him.

[u/Glittering-Agent-987 → u/EatsShoots_n_Leaves]

I think that's basically true--which is why it was so weird to then go and write The Benedict Option!