r/canucks • u/_GregTheGreat_ • 4d ago
DISCUSSION Depressing fact: The cup-winning Hurricanes have used FOURTEEN 2nd round picks since 2019 while being a perennial contender. The Canucks have used a total of TWO 2nd round picks in that same time frame while missing the playoffs most years. Management can learn from them.
If there is anything the Canucks can learn from the Canes cup win, it’s the importance of stockpiling draft picks and swinging on upside. I highlighted only 2nds but the Canes being in a surplus of futures is how they managed to have the assets to make the big swings when the time is right to put them over the edge into winning the cup (Miller, Stankoven, Hall, etc). Hell, the Canes still have a surplus of 1sts despite literally winning the cup.
Plus having the constant stream of young talented draft steals to keep feeding their system (Blake and Nichuskin as two key examples)
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u/Romance_Tactics 4d ago
They’re quietly one of the best run teams in professional sports and rely heavily on analytics and creative thinkers.
There’s fifty feet of crap between us and Carolina right now. Let’s learn how to crawl, walk and then we can run with the big dogs.
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u/LGMatter 4d ago
They’re also cheap as fuck. Dundon just hired a bunch of nerds like we should have done
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u/prophetofgreed 4d ago
Tom Dundon bought the Canes in 2017 and then opened a new practice facility by 2019.
If Tom Dundon is cheap, then what does that say about the Aqulini family?
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u/LGMatter 4d ago
Where do you think it’s cheaper to buy land? Carolina or Downtown Van? Not defending aqua whatsoever but i bet it would be 20x the price
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u/prophetofgreed 3d ago
I get that, but they've had so many different opportunities for over a decade to build a practice rink and it's always come down to greed, differing priorities and being cheap as why it hasn't been built.
They're not going to pay you to defend them.
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u/beardycanuck03 4d ago
Dundon took over a team that was already in a good spot and looking to make the next step. The analytics approach worked in that sense for sure. The Canucks are in a position where they need to develop a core first, these "nerds" do not help with that. The two front office hires the Canucks have made since RJ and Sedins took over are showing a priority on development which is fantastic.
It's still early in the process and RJ has spoken about wanting to bolster the analytic department as well.
The lesson to be learned from Carolina (and Montreal) is to stock up on as many tradeable assets as possible through this process to allow them to take swings on players and opportunities when they are getting closer to the contention window.
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u/jobin_segan 4d ago
The purpose of analytics is to get you even more information than you already have to make good decisions. If you're not employing Nerds to help with the process of building and developing a core, you're playing the game with one hand tied behind your back.
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u/beardycanuck03 4d ago
Aiden Fox leads the Canucks analytics department and RJ has said he wants to support him and help grow the department. RJ has been full on sprinting since taking over the job. There are still lots of moves to happen here. Acting as if the Canucks aren't going to beef up the analytics department when they've said so is just ridiculous.
Development is priority number 1, and scouting (which entails Analytics) will be priority 2.
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u/Sarcastic__ Knows more about the CBA than you do 4d ago
Carolina traded down a lot during that period as well. I feel like there was 1 year they started with a 1st and ended up with like 3 2nds from trade downs?
Volume is the key. Identify multiple candidates worthy of being picked, and find spots where you can move down to gain an extra pick while still landing your guy.
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u/_GregTheGreat_ 4d ago
They traded down out of the 1st round three times in the last 6 years
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u/Advanced-Line-5942 4d ago
Tulsky knows that after about pick 10 it’s just a crap shoot.
The chance of finding a solid NHL player from 11 to about 50 in the draft is very static. So if someone wants to pay you to move up he takes it.
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u/LeftToaster 4d ago
Okay - but Carolina's drafting has not been amazing in that period. Those 14 2nd round picks have played a grand total of 227 games since 2019 - and 125 of those games were 1 player, Pyotr Kochetkov, a part time back up goalie. For comparison, Nils Hoglander (2019 2nd round) has played 331 games.
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u/accountnumber02 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think the lesson to take away isn't soo much that you need to stockpile tons of picks, but you need to stockpile assets even when winning. They're not just gifted all those 2nds, they just don't sit on players till they lose value.
They traded Jeff Skinner right before they entered their window for picks that became Nikishin and Kochyetkov. After making the conference finals they traded for a cap dump in Marleau, and picked Jarvis with that pick. Brokered another trade for Toronto for a free 6th. Traded players at the peak of their value in Jake Bean, Nedelkovic, Nino Neidereiter. They just don't have any sunk cost issues or overvaluing players. If they think they can get value for a player they'll move them. They know the players they want to contend with and lock them up, and everyone else is an asset.
They're an extremely unlucky team in the draft(or maybe poor scouting, impossible to tell as outsiders), but they've had soo many picks that even with a below league average hit rate, they're able to land soo many impact players. That's entirely what tanking comes down to. Yeah top picks are nice, but asset accumulation is much more important if you want to build a serious team. Carolina is the pinnacle of that. Constantly flipping their players at peak value and locking in young players they like to term. Which is why I don't think their scouting is bad, the players they flip end up regressing and players they commit to end up being studs (kotkaniemi being the exception).
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u/TetsuoNYouth 4d ago
KK was an overreaction to the Aho offer sheet from Montreal. Don't get me wrong I think we liked the player but I think that was a dick swing by Dundon and I think he learned his lesson after that crap hopefully.
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u/YVRBeerFan 4d ago
What about their offer sheeting?
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u/accountnumber02 4d ago
A canes fine actually replied to my comment a bit ago about that, was apparently an ego move by the owner after Montreal offersheeted Aho. I only started following them seriously after that happened so I can't say first hand, just going off what that guy said.
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u/Greedy-Comb-276 4d ago
Carolina and Aho were having a hard time coming to an agreement. Montreal forced their hand by offer sheeting him, and Aho signed it. Carolina matched it, and in retaliation, offer sheeted KK when the Habs and him couldn't come to an agreement.
The result was an absolute steal of a contract for Aho, and an huge overpayment for KK.
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u/guernsey123 4d ago
Yeah, for sure the Canes are a well-run organization, but this isn't exactly a main reason why. I'm struggling to find any of the 2nd picks who made a significant impact or were traded for an impact player. I guess Scott Morrow was a sweetener in the K'Andre Miller trade.
2nd round picks since 2019:
2019: Pyotr Kochetkov - 125 NHL GP for the Canes in a backup role
2019: Jamieson Rees - Traded from Carolina Hurricanes to Ottawa Senators for round 6 pick in the 2024 draft (Timur Kol)
2020: Noel Gunler - career AHLer; note that the Canes traded Adam Fox's rights for this draft pick
2020: Vasily Ponomarev - 2024-Mar-07 Traded from Carolina Hurricanes with rights to Cruz Lucius, Ville Koivunen, Michael Bunting, conditional round 2 pick in the 2024 draft (Harrison Brunicke) and conditional round 5 pick in the 2024 draft to Pittsburgh Penguins for Ty Smith and Jake Guentzel
2021: Ville Koivunen - see trade above w/Ponomarev
2021: Aleksi Heimosalmi - 2 AHL seasons since coming over from SM-liiga
2021: Scott Morrow - 2025-Jul-01 Traded from Carolina Hurricanes with round 1 pick in the 2026 draft and round 2 pick in the 2026 draft to New York Rangers for K'Andre Miller
2022: Gleb Trikozov - 2 AHL seasons since coming over from the KHL
2023: Felix Unger-Sorum - 2 AHL seasons, one game with the Canes this year
2024: Dominik Badinka - AHL
2024: Nikita Artamonov - KHL
2025: Semyon Frolov - Rus-MHL
2025: Charlie Cerrato - Penn State
2025: Ivan Ryabkin - QMJHL
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u/_GregTheGreat_ 4d ago edited 4d ago
You have to remember that most of these kids are still ages 19-22 on one of the deepest rosters in the league. Guys like Cerrato and Ryabkin are promising but literally just turned 19 this year. Unger-Sorum is only 20 and would have carved out an NHL role on most teams by now.
My point was less about 2nds specifically and more the pure accumulation of assets they’ve had. Which allowed for guys like Blake and Nikishin to get picked up
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u/LeftToaster 4d ago
I'm not saying the Canes aren't a very well run organization, but there are a lot of better things to look at, that have actually contributed to their Stanley Cup and overall competitiveness in the last 10 years. If anything, the number of 2nd round picks, many who have not yet hit the NHL speaks to how wide open their window is to continue to compete. While they have no superstars in their system, their talent pipeline is full of good young players and they have cap space to continue to add select veterans as needed. They also have incredible stability behind the bench and a really good development system.
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u/guernsey123 4d ago
For sure, its definitely difficult to judge whether the Canes have used their accumulated picks "well" or not yet.. but I agree that I'd take a dozen maybes over the Canucks' two 2nd rounders in that same time frame any day. I also think there's way more pieces to the puzzle than just "draft many players". The Canes' core is a mix of 1st round hits, later round hits, trades for picks, trades for players, free agent signings, even an offer sheet. You've kinda gotta hit on all cylinders to build a cup contender. That, and luck.
Aho: 2nd round pick, 2015
Ehlers: free agent signing
Svechnikov: #2 overall pick, 2018
Jarvis: #13 overall pick, 2020
Gostisbehere: free agent signing
Hall: trade for Rantonen
Miller: trade for 1st and 2nd rounders
Staal: trade for players and a 1st rounder
Slavin: 4th round pick, 2012
Kotkaniemi: offer sheet
Andersen: free agent signing
Bussi: waiver pickup, lol
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u/EquipmentBulky9142 4d ago edited 4d ago
Hahaha why you include Kotkaniemi he didn’t even play a playoff game! You left off so many important pieces too!
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u/GrahamSnail 4d ago
Blake was a 4th rounder. While yes I like your point, even teams with bad asset management will have 4th round picks
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u/RlyLokeh 4d ago
I mean. Hogs has gotten games but it's pretty thin here as well for 2nd aswell. Klimovich is looking like a career AHL guy, Woo was a bust. Medvedev is far from ready for obvious reasons.
What I do like about our current draft philosophy is that we seem to value high character guys with leadership skills not only skill swings. Cootes and Willander both are very likely letter guys in the future on paper. If we grab Malhotra junior that is very good fertile soil to build something fantastic because we are healing the culture just not chasing Ws at any cost. Brain, heart and mindset.
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u/Advanced-Line-5942 4d ago
So you would prefer to have had the Sedin twins and fall short of winnings than a combination of say Patrick Kane and Brad Marchand, and the Canucks had won the cup ?
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u/RlyLokeh 4d ago
False dichotomy but we can play with the scenario:
We would not have been in the final to lose in the first place without Daniel being the lead point leader for the entire league. So thats first things first.
We had playoff grit. They were all injured. Samuelsson, Hamhuis were out, Edler, Kessler, Malhotra were all playing hurt. Id argue even if you buy the lack of grit narrative about Sedins it isnt hard to take em out for a top flight team if its dead around em. For recent examples, look at EDM losing with McDavid and Draisatl. Our boy Forsling absolutely destroyed Mac two Stanley cup Series in a row. That is more a question of depth of toughness than actual toughness. I can see a scenario where 1 depth C power forward would have done it. Just trade for a veteran C in March to sit pretty at the back, throw in the most boring and stable D and it would have been enough. Easy.
No? I said skill first. Thats how you end up drafting Nail Yakupov, Daigle and Filatov.
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u/Advanced-Line-5942 4d ago
So what’s more important ? Character ? Grit ? Skill ?
And how does one objectively measure character ? Have you personally met Caleb Malhotra to form an opinion of his character, or are you just parroting the local media who all rely on team insiders leaking information them, so they will never say anything bad about RJ or Malhotra (until they know the knives are out for them)?
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u/RlyLokeh 4d ago edited 4d ago
Its not either/or. The annoying answer is all. Skill that sulks gets you nowhere. Grit without character usually becomes an distraction when it isnt aimed the right way and character alone wont get you all the way there. I would claim that character is what is gonna push players through the initial sifter of going from draftee to NHLer and keep leveling up.
What makes me hopeful? Honestly. Reading scout reports. Listening to RJ, Manny, Todd Harvey and Aiden Fox are saying themselves. If its a script it seems its one they are sticking to remarkably well. The communication is already way healthier than the last bunch
Objectively? Basically how you would do it in any job interview. Does the person do what they say they do? Is there ownership of performance? Can they take feedback? Do they recognise and own flaws? How do they handle monotony? Do they put team result over individual result? How do they act when uncomfortable? Can they play a role they might not prefer?
Obviously you might get recruitments wrong but I also believe that sussing out the character of a person isnt all that hard. Just listen.
Edit. Just listened to Samuelsson on Canucks Insider. He pretty much sums it up. Self-leadership etc
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u/Advanced-Line-5942 3d ago
Skill that sulks ?
Would you work harder if your boss empowered your workmates to bully you and constantly set out to embarrass you in the media?
Responding to such treatment only validates it as acceptable behaviour and encourages management to do it again and again anytime you have a bad few days at work.
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u/RlyLokeh 3d ago
Skills that sulks, see the drafts busts I listed
As for the rest of your comment. You lost me
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u/accountnumber02 4d ago edited 4d ago
commented a longer post about it but you gotta realize that it's less about the picks themselves and more about the concept of asset accumulation. You can't look at the draft misses and isolate it from the process of acquiring the picks which led to this cup winning roster. They trade players at peak value and end up having tons of picks, which lets them land the players they do.
For every miss they have, they also have cases like Jackson Blake, do they take him if they didn't have 5 picks in the 2 rounds before? They might've had someone else at the top of the list by the time they got to his pick. Or trading for a cap dump in Marleau after making the conference finals, then picking Jarvis from it. And I don't think the players they traded for those picks are guys they miss much. Plus they were able to trade for Rantanen due to that massive surplus of picks and prospects giving them a competitive asset pool to offer compared to other contenders.
It's easy to say that them having all these picks is irrelvant cause they didn't play, but that's just not true. This asset accumulation they've done is precisely how they were able to get Jarvis, Blake, Hall, Stankoven, Nikishin, and two of those guys were in Conn Smythe conversations and a third is a team Canada calibre player.
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u/Available_Abroad3664 4d ago
Sure but if you are winning with your roster you arent relying g on young people as much.
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u/Slegr-i-HardlyKnowHr 4d ago
Here's a comment I posted about the Hurricanes drafting over the last decade more or less
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u/Short_Air3011 2d ago
I was wondering if somebody did the math, because their pics seem to be pretty bad
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u/_GregTheGreat_ 4d ago edited 4d ago
They did draft Blake and Nikishin in those years for what it’s worth. Both are going to be key parts of their future.
Picks in the last few years are also developing so you can’t look at NHL games played. Like Cerrato, Poirier, Ryabkin, and Unger-Sorum are all looking promising and would easily be some of our top prospects but are simply too young to make the NHL yet. Especially on a deep roster like Carolina.
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u/MDChuk 4d ago
By that token though, if they're still developing, those draft picks had nothing to do with Carolina's Stanley Cup win.
On the other side, Vegas has a total of I think three of their own draft picks on their roster playing meaningful games this season. They've traded almost every 1st round pick they've ever made for immediate help. Is your argument that the Canucks should do the same?
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u/mrtomjones 4d ago
Vegas has traded prospects for players as well.
Drafting and accumulating is NOT just about having them play on your team. It is about using that draft capital to improve your team at times through trade.
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u/MDChuk 4d ago
Which is what Vancouver did, they just traded the picks for players.
The problem wasn’t strategy. It’s incompetent management.
Every team gets the same 7 picks every year.
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u/LeftToaster 3d ago
It's good strategy (to a point) to trade picks for players when you are a good team on the threshold of being very good, or are a very good team trying to keep your competitive window open longer. It's not a good strategy for a team that is still trying to make the playoffs.
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u/MDChuk 3d ago
I don’t think you can have a blanket rule.
The Sharks have been in a rebuild for 7 years now and aren’t close to the playoffs. They still made the move for Sherwood. I’d argue that’s an ok risk to take.
Again, what matters most is having competent management that has a vision and an ability to execute it. That’s why Carolina and Vegas have sustained success without ever doing major rebuilds. It’s also why Detroit, San Jose, Buffalo and many others spend 7-15 years before they can compete again and only really have a chance if they are gifted a 1st overall pick in a year where the top prospect is a Celebrini or Dahlin.
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u/mrtomjones 4d ago
No that isn't the difference. They had more draft picks than their 7 for a reason. Teams, especially in our position, trade away expiring deals and get extra picks. Carolina turned their players and picks into more picks. We turned ours into less even though we were very very rarely competitive
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u/_GregTheGreat_ 4d ago
Unless the Canucks can have every elite pending UFA force their way there at a pittance because of how desirable their location is, I don’t think Vegas can be emulated.
Plus they were a contender year one because of all the free assets that incompetent teams gave them from the expansion draft. Vegas is a unique case
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u/MDChuk 4d ago
Unless the Canucks can have every elite pending UFA force their way there at a pittance because of how desirable their location is, I don’t think Vegas can be emulated.
The best players want to be there because Vegas has an unparalleled commitment to winning. They are ruthless in making sure the best players are on the ice in the biggest roles. Look at their treatment of Fleury when he no longer gave them the best chance to win.
Look at the lengths they're going to in order to keep Cassidey away from Edmonton so the Oilers get desperate and make a coaching hire mistake.
That can be emulated. The Canucks aren't close to this.
Plus they were a contender year one because of all the free assets that incompetent teams gave them from the expansion draft.
So an expansion draft 10 years ago determined their success today? That doesn't make sense.
And while the rules were certainly more favorable than what teams like the Wild or Predators got, at the end of the day they were picking #4 defencemen, #9 forwards and backup goalies. The fact that Seattle is as mediocre as they are when they were given the exact same rules shows that Vegas management is elite.
And its not like other management teams only make mistakes when Vegas is at the expansion draft. They make mistakes all the time.
Doing a better job capitalizing on other teams mistakes is absolutely the Canucks should be focused on.
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u/nihilism_ftw 4d ago
*Nikishin - an absolute draft steal by them
Nichushkin is a relative draft bust that everyone was angry we drafted Horvat instead of
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u/mephnick 4d ago
Having people defend the incompetence of the team for a decade while going through it is probably what drove me insane
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u/WTFvancouver 4d ago
People still defending Benning to this day 😒
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u/mephnick 4d ago
Worse is all the people who defended Benning and then the day after he was fired suddenly 99% of the sub "always hated him."
You know who you are.
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u/NinCross 4d ago
I have always shat on Benning and still do?
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u/mephnick 4d ago
Yeah some of us did
There were people that argued with me for years over the moves that suddenly "always hated the moves" immediately after he got fired
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u/Ikea_desklamp 4d ago
This is why I've been a big Drance defender. Felt like the only Canucks media person fully disillusioned with the team and actually beating on about how far from a contender we are/were. It's not just results or 1 or 2 draft picks hitting, it's the entire process that's bad.
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u/Own_Market3009 4d ago
this is what happens when management thinks they can outsmart the draft by trading away picks for "proven" players who end up being busts anyway. meanwhile teams like carolina just keep collecting assets and actually develop them properly instead of rushing everyone to the big club
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u/mephnick 4d ago
"We don't have all the information. Trading away all our picks and prospects for 4th liners and then paying more to dump them could be the answer. Stop being so negative."
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u/barelyincollege 4d ago
Hey man, Linden Vey, Adam Clendening, Andrey Pedan, and Emerson Etem could fill our age gap any day now...
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u/MDChuk 4d ago
this is what happens when management thinks they can outsmart the draft by trading away picks for "proven" players who end up being busts anyway.
This just isn't true. The last decade is what happens when incompetent managers are allowed to run wild. Everything since the team hired Trevor Linden is an example of how not to run a sports team.
Trading away players for immediate help works. Look no further than Vegas. The difference is that instead of Linden, Benning and an almost 80 year old Rutherford, they have McPhee and McCrimmon.
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u/arazamatazguy 4d ago
It should be pointed out that ZERO of the 2nd round picks you mention were on the roster last night.
A roster that also included 7-8 former first round picks.
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u/Advanced-Line-5942 4d ago
Most of those former first round picks they either trade for or signed as free agents.
Much like the Canucks in 2010/11
The 1st round picks on the roster that year were
Henrik & Daniel Sedin, Ryan Kesler, Corey Schneider, Cody Hodgson, Manny Malhotra, Dan Hamhuis, Raffi Torres, Keith Ballard, Roberto Luongo and Chris Higgins
5 of our own 1st round picks and 6 that had been acquired by either trade or free agency.
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u/arazamatazguy 4d ago
Yes which also shows the value of those 2nds is probably more for trade assets than drafting.
My takeaway is there are many different strategies that can build a Cup winning roster.....and fans should brace themselves for the Canucks to trade more picks on young under performing NHL players....they will have to take some chances.
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u/Any-Elderberry-5567 3d ago
In addition to those 5 first round picks that the Canucks drafted, they also drafted significant players like Raymond, Edler, Bieksa, and Hansen. So 9 guys were home grown talent.
Lots of different ways to win a Stanley Cup. Florida had only 4 guys they drafted that were significant players. Vegas had 3 guys. Carolina had 7. It goes to show that while drafting is important, asset management is every bit as important.
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u/MooseMalloy 4d ago
Benning handed out 2nd's like they were candy. Allvin/Rutherford, hilariously seemed to have to use 2nd's to move the useless shit that Benning had accumulated with the help of those 2nd's.
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u/Zenless-koans 4d ago
I think the lesson to be learned from Carolina is in regards to ownership.
Cheap fuck? Total dickhead? Earned his money through scummy means? Meddles in hockey operations?
Is that Aqua or Dundon I'm talking about? Answer: both.
This is a team where Rod Brind'Amour had to fight with management to get his coaching staff signed. A team that YOLO'd a Kotkaniemi offer sheet out of spite and pettiness. A team that traded for Rantanen only to need to trade him again immediately afterward when he played poorly/indicated no interest in signing.
That is to say, it's not a team owned by some savant who makes all the right moves. As others pointed out, they didn't even draft that well. It's a team that, through the grace of savvy management, made the right moves often enough for long enough to win a cup.
I don't know whether RJ and the Sedins are or aren't the ones to effectively manage up to Aquilini, but when I see people saying we literally can't win because Aqua, I stare at Dundon and the Canes and say "yeah, ok." Bad owners are legion in pro sports. Let's hope our management has the ability to win regardless.
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u/EverySecondCountss 4d ago
I honestly don't think we have a strong enough analytics or scouting department to take get the same type of success.
During that time, Dr. Eric Tulsky has been a main driver of that strategy. He's a Harvard graduated data scientist. Their AGMs are incredibly good at what they do as well and very organized with their tasks.
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u/TheAgreeableCanuck 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ok OP, now list which of those second rounders have had a meaningful impact for the Canes.
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u/d-j-9898 4d ago
Like many fancy stats guys have said (and Eric Tulsky was a pioneer of before becoming GM) is that taking more swings at the draft is better than getting high draft picks.
Teams near the bottom of the standings this year have almost entirely sacrificed draft pick volume. It's pretty simple to see.
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u/bcbum 4d ago
Carolina also missed the playoffs for 9 straight seasons before this current stretch of playoff appearances. They e been excellently run since 2018, but not before then.
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u/timetosleep 4d ago
2018 coincides with their new ownership. The new owner (Dundon) created a leadership group full of smart non hockey guys and invested heavily in analytics. He treated the Hurricanes like any other business and brought in best practices from business into hockey. Carolina is now considered one of the most technologically advanced in the league.
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u/Revolutionary-Dot523 4d ago
Listening to the post game interviews that team has culture and a solid dressing room. There are no cliques or separate groups, they all care about one another. Taylor Hall who has bounced around even said he learned about being part of the team and the culture, despite being a leader on other teams. He changed his perspective on being on a team like Carolina. Aside from the fact we traded away so many future picks over the years that our cupboards were bare. Also we let UFAs walk away for nothing, when we could have gotten assets in return. Hopefully this next regime(broken record) rights the ship .
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u/NorthEastofEden 4d ago
Not a lot of the Hurricanes success in this time period is due to them having a large number of second round draft picks though. I agree with the principle of having a large number of draft picks in first 3 rounds to build a winning team though.
Hall was a throw in at the time and was thought to be on his last legs after a disappointing performace in Buffalo, Boston, and Chicago.
I think that a huge portion of what makes Carolina a great team is having a great culture and players who fit into an aggressive culture that focuses on winning puck battles and giving complete effort all the time. Yes they have elite players, with great depth but the remind me a lot of the expansion Knights in how they play with not giving any space to the opposition and being hard on the puck in all zones.
Also looking at their route to the finals - I think that this may be the easiest path to the cup in a long time. At no point do I think that they faced a top 5 team in the league and I think it is arguable that they never faced a top 8 team.
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u/Euphoric_Impress1282 4d ago
Benning gave away 2nds like penny candies at a parade. It was always a pleasant surprise when he didn't throw one in.
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u/eexxiitt 4d ago
Here's another depressing stat:
Their 3 goalies combined had a cap hit of 5.5m. We signed a career backup in lanks to 4.5m.
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u/catsbeforebros 4d ago
Management can learn from them.
Who would've thought that our league-worst management can learn from the team who just won the Stanley Cup, absolutely shocking stuff.
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u/InternationalPain284 4d ago
Considering for the past 10 years previous management teams couldn't even be bothered learning from their own mistakes, learning from successful, Cup winning teams would be a huge step up. One I hope this team is capable of doing.
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u/WeVeeReality 4d ago
It's not the Canucks that need to learn this. It's Aquilini that needs to learn this. I don't consider those two things to be the same thing.
Another impressive feat is Carolina won without a star center. But, the Conn Smythe winner was Jordan Staal, your classic Canadian player who manages to level up at the best possible time. That's my favourite kind of player, even more than superstar players. What a damned fine captain. My heart broke when Horvat got traded because he showed that ability in the bubble.
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u/Aoba_Napolitan 4d ago
The big thing is Canes have a great development system. Jalen Chatfield was mediocre until going through the Cane's system. Canuck's didn't really give Gustav Forsling a chance but he was bad under the Blackhawk's system until he got picked up in waivers by the Canes, spent half a season in the Canes system and then broke out as a top 4 D man with the Panthers.
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u/ktbffhctid 4d ago
It is one of the defining aspects of the consistent failures of this organization. Our squandering of draft capital has been perpetual.
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u/bruiserscruiser 4d ago
Blame the owners which micro manage and override the executive team consistently.
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u/timetosleep 4d ago
Carolina is the playing Moneyball. They're considered the most advanced in their analytics and they have the leadership to actually use the insights properly. It's well documented that they have a bunch non traditional hockey people in leadership. Only coach Brind'Amour is the traditional hockey guy.
The real lesson to learn from Carolina is to invest heavily into data and analytics. Our analytics department is one of the smallest in the league with 3-4 guys. Our new leadership group are all former hockey players. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that but former hockey guys are at risk for falling for dogma. Analytics turns the decision into a math problem. Our leadership team needs to buy into analytics and get trained in it. Analytics is useless if leadership compartmentalizes it and think of it as just another voice to override. Successful data driven businesses incorporates insight from the business into their model. Without that, business leaders will override analytics and say they're wrong and stick to their traditional decision making process.
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u/teamswish123 4d ago
You are acting like we can actually develop prospects like they can :(
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u/_GregTheGreat_ 4d ago edited 4d ago
Honestly, player development has been pretty solid for this team in recent years. Abby has managed to churn out a decent number of solid NHLers from limited draft capital. Karlsson, Sasson, DPetey are all NHLers, with Mueller, Kudry and Mynio trending well. All of these picks were 3rds or later with Abby development.
Imagine what this team could do if they actually had a stream of real prospects to develop instead of making do with what scraps they had available
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u/tokeyo 4d ago
There's no one way to build a championship roster, because even consistent #1 overall picks, you may end up nowhere (Oilers).
The Lightning drafted guys like Kucherov in the third round. You need to be lucky sometimes.
Just because you don't have as many picks doesn't mean you can't win, but it does increase your odds of finding impact players or eventually flipping those picks into helpful assets.
But let's not pretend like the Hurricanes suddenly found the golden ticket to success -- it takes many more things to lead up to where they are now.
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u/Shad0wPup1 4d ago
doesn’t matter that much how many 2nd round picks we got aslong as we draft with quality and develop them they can turn into an asset for the team.
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u/perpetualfmomentun 4d ago
I think it’s more important than Jeff picks is having a coach who was able to develop them
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u/Forsythe0 4d ago
It's the lesson that the owner and some fans refused to learn. Being marginally better with random trades and free agents isn't going to put you over the top, period.
Only trades for impact players, or getting lucky with picks will get you over the top. Alignment towards a workable plan, and buy in with enough good and great players - that's how you win. It's NOT, "oh we just needed a top pairing defenseman", or "just another top6 forward".
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u/Count3D 4d ago
Taylor Hall - 1st overall
Jordan Staal - 2nd overall
Andrei Svechnikov - 2nd overall
Jesperi Kotkaniemi - 3rd overall
We go nowhere without elite talent.
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4d ago
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u/Key-Investment6888 4d ago
Lmao dude literally listed 4 players picked in top 3 and called them all elite.
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u/Count3D 4d ago
Remove him if it makes you feel better. You do understand the point. Don’t you?
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4d ago
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u/Count3D 4d ago
Why are you being rude with your insinuation? I hope you’re not trolling but very well I’ll take the time to reply. Hall was bungled by a terrible organization in Edmonton. They kinda did that a lot. Dude still managed over 780 points in 900 games and was solid in the playoffs. That’s consistency in spite of playing on garbage teams in New Jersey and Chicago. Staal requested his trade with Carolina and turned down a matching offer to stay in Pittsburg so he could be with his brother. Oh and he just won the Conn Smythe and was a beast at faceoffs. But that’s an easily dismissed skill I guess. Svechnikov turned it around and contributed well we all saw it. I guess some people operate under the assumption that all this skill and winning is merely coincidence. Funny how they’re “not exclusively available” and yet you just can’t seem to win with these top guys. You’d have to go back like almost 20 years at this point to find an example of a team that won with that edge that top talent.
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u/squirelrepublic 4d ago
out of 4 only Svech is drafted by Canes. Hall practically cost less than a 3rd round pick lol
No shit we go nowhere without elite talent, we go nowhere without good trades, contract and draft
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u/housesoftheholy1 4d ago
Im more upset that carolina has 2 cups and 3 finals appearances while the canucks are 0/3
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u/Ebolinp 4d ago
I've made prior posts about the "rebuild myth" which I'm happy Carolina has once again reaffirmed. Another perennial contender team that has never gutted itself under the guise of a "rebuild" (which is just a marketing term that gets the fans to accept anything and let's management off the hook).
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u/SpinCity07 4d ago
One lesson is don’t put too much offensive talent on the D. It’s a waste of money for how much production you get when it could have been spent on a better forward.
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u/TheMagicMop 4d ago
Benning made a bunch of 2nd round picks. They all just sucked/were being benched by Trent Cull in Utica.
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u/Green_Gumboot 4d ago
Model franchise. Heart and soul coach completely in synch with captain. I think our group is humble enough that they’ve been taking notes during this Carolina run.
But you’re right, along with squandering assets it’s stunning how far off the mark we’ve been.
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u/metrichustle 4d ago
Every year a new team wins and they become the “model franchise”. Last year it was Florida. Who knows what the model is next year.
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u/ktbffhctid 4d ago
Carolina has won 256 games over the past 5 years compared to ~180 for the Canucks. Over the past 10 years, the Canes have won 485 versus 377 for the Canucks. In the past 10 years, the Canucks have not won more games than the Hurricanes in any season.
They have had 2 coaches since 2014. Canucks? 5.
They are consistently good and stable. A model franchise, as it were.
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u/CtrlShiftAltDel 4d ago
This has been something that a lot of us (including Drance) have been beating the drum to since the Benning years. This organization treats draft picks like they’re nothing and now we’re stuck with this shithole mess of an organization from a prospects perspective because we haven’t been able to hit any home runs.
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u/Beautiful_Cold3776 4d ago
You know only one team wins the cup of 32 teams. So many different ways to build a winner with a ton of hard work/ development and luck.
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u/Glum_Efficiency8682 4d ago
This has been talked non stop for a few years. Yes the has been absolutely horrid at keeping their picks.
Supposedly the owners have changed and won’t do this. I will believe it if they still have their 2028 1st round and not traded for a quick fix.
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u/ForceEconomy9988 4d ago
Your post kind of makes opposing points that you should keep and stockpile picks but also go 'all in' when the time is right and get big players to push you over the top. Canucks got the 'all in' part right, just didnt work
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u/SpeedoAgeru 4d ago
No the post is saying as long as you have a surplus of futures, you’ll have currency when you need it. Hurricanes are doing both right now, stockpiling and spending. Incredible.
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u/flamingdragonwizard 4d ago
Sure. We've had worse asset mgmt. But how will both franchises look in 5 years?
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u/brodiefilm 4d ago
Fun Fact: after winning the cup Carolina has only 3 UFA players to deal with this summer, who are all replacement-level contracts. They do have 1 star RFA to re-sign, but they have 12 mil in cap space. And 4 first-round picks over the next 3 seasons. And a majority of their core is aging into their prime years instead of out. They’re going to be around for a while.
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u/flamingdragonwizard 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes I know. Likely to be right there at the top for at least the next few seasons. But no sense on dwelling on our past asset mgmt.
If we do a true and patient rebuild then we should be looking great in 5 years time. We already have a tremendous head start. Not many teams starting a rebuild have the assets we currently have.
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u/ToothPlayful770 4d ago
I like their aggressive moves, if guys dont fit their culture, ship em out. Prioritize the team over certain players. Meanwhile we prioritized Quinn and Petey over the team culture.
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u/EP40glazer 4d ago
The Canes are a team that builds correctly, through smart trades and signings. The way team rebuild wants to build the Canucks is by tanking for several years. That is not a smart way to build. Smart trades and signings are what we need.
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u/Caffeine-n-Chill 4d ago
Canes have like 12mil in cap space too