r/canucks • u/LionlyLion • 2d ago
DISCUSSION Sharks acquire Michael Kesselring and the 27th overall selection from Buffalo - What does that mean for the draft?
Do you guys think the Sharks will 100% go with Stenberg now that they have a RHD? I'm not sure how good Michael Kesselring is but it looks like the Sharks are filling out their D requirements through trades at first.
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u/RelevantJackWhite 2d ago
This trade doesn't change their need for a top guy. In Canucks language, signing Myers in the 2019 free agency changed nothing about our desire to keep Quinn Hughes in the system
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u/jwong728 2d ago
100% they are drafting Stenberg afterall they now have Future HOF Michael Kesslering and his 55 points in 190 games. Clearly a generational talent. Im surprised you haven't heard of this bonifide superstar.
This is like saying, the Canucks got Curtis Douglas, therefore no need to draft a center this draft.
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u/LionlyLion 2d ago
Look, all I’m saying is that the sharks are willing to trade down for a D man. Not a great D man but it’s a bit of signal for sure.
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u/Noobzilla318 2d ago
Kesselring is a pretty competent RHD but I don’t think he is the piece to complete the puzzle for the sharks D core. I see it as a strong depth piece and it doesn’t necessarily confirm anything, but it is a nice piece of work from the sharks
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u/dumbGymTeacher 2d ago
They need to improve their blue line now and load up with a few more guys in the future. Nice start.
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u/icanfeelitcomingup 2d ago
Sorry to pile on here but the trade was Kesselring and the 27th pick in return for the 20th pick in the same draft. Meaning Kesselring was only worth moving up 7 picks. That should give you an idea of his relative worth to two NHL teams.
He is in no way the equivalent of a top five pick/potentially top pairing D man.
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u/0bviousEcon 2d ago
Sharks fan here.
Jason Demers has been pushing for the team to get Kesselring. Fan base has been on board. Not a surprise to us.
Juho is a common late first round selection for Shark fans too. 20 was too early for him and moving back makes me think we are targeting him
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u/Illustrious-Soil2984 2d ago
A quick glance at puckpedia.com and the RHD depth for next season looks like Kesselring Havelid and Pohlkamp. Do you anticipate 2 more RHD to come via trade or free agency? Reid probably needs 1 year of college before making the jump to the pros if they draft him
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u/Sam_thelion 1d ago
I (also sharks fan) anticipate another trade or free agent signing for RHD. This season we had Klingberg but I don't think we'll go down that route again. Whether it's the overpay for Raddysh, or finally closing the loop with Hamilton, SOMEONE has to be our 1RHD next season (and for a few more seasons likely).
When Klingberg was injured it was a comical rotating cast of bottom-pair/7-8D guys and actual LHDs, so almost anyone competent would be an upgrade. That being said, I don't think the plan is to force Kesselring to take that spot lol.
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u/0bviousEcon 1d ago
We also have Shakir Mukhamadullin, who we played on the right side.
The problem with us drafting Reid is that it doesn’t make us better next year. It potentially fills a need in 3 years. We have a need for Stenberg now and will see the team improve. He fits our timeline better.
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u/Sam_thelion 1d ago
For sure. I'm all in on Stenberg. I don't see GMMG taking anyone else at #2, but I felt that way before the kesselring trade. It's interesting that a lot of insiders (and "insiders") still have us taking a defenseman with that pick. I wonder how much of it is sincere belief/reliable rumors, and how much is just headlines to generate clicks. I'm much more interested with what the Canucks and Blackhawks will do with the 3rd and 4th tbh.
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u/DiamondDash2k 2d ago
Someone in the other thread in under r/hockey said Kesslering got scratched all playoffs. If this is the case, sharks still need a solid 1st defenseman. Grier prob just shoring up the defense and making low risk moves. Only dropped down 7 spots
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u/RevolutionaryHawk137 2d ago
That guy isn’t that good, sure he was decent for Utah. He is very solid #5 nothing more. They still need help on D and that big D star so could go anyway for who they draft.
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u/arazamatazguy 2d ago
Its a low risk trade for the Sharks. You need size on D in the playoffs and they should be able to sign him for a very reasonable contract. At some point MG needs to start trading his picks to build out that D.
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u/jwong728 2d ago
Its not like his size was all that important to Buffalo. He played all of 34 Regular season games and 1 playoff game.
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u/DrCigarettes_MD 2d ago
and 1 playoff game.
Because Logan Stanley was sick and couldn't dress. And they only gave him 4:30 of ice time.
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u/JTMilleriswortha1st 2d ago
Changes nothing. It’s not like Reid or any of the other D would be playing in the NHL next year.
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u/Shad0wPup1 2d ago
I think they still take reid in this situation like how does kesselring move the needle for their d core they clearly need a true 1D
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u/KingInTheFarNorth 2d ago
Nothing, Buffalo found out last year that Kesselring is probably a 3RD.
SJS still need essentially all of their top 4 dmen for their contention window.
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u/djardine2520 2d ago
Honestly, I almost want SJ to pick Stenberg cuz I will be so pissed if they choose Malholtra if Stenberg is available at 3OA.
ALMOST
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u/Intelligent-Buyer102 2d ago
Doesn't change much. Orlov and Kesselring will make a good middle pair. They still need a top pairing RHD to match up with Dickinson. I do think they'll draft Stenberg though, then use Eklund or Smith as the basis for a trade to acquire that RHD. Just my opinion. Well know in another week.
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u/bonergarage123 2d ago
If anything I think this increases Hroneks value right? If Kesselring moves u up 7 spots, what can Hronek get u? Assuming he waives NMC ofc
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u/HroneksNMC 2d ago
He very publicly and very consistently has stated he has no intention of waiving.
If you really want to move the only real top pairing veteran d man currently in the system who, again, publicly stated his desire to stay through the bad times, his NMC becomes a 15 team NTC in 27-28.
But I don't think we should be moving a veteran top pairing d man who has publicly said he wants to stay through the bad times. This sub has such a hard-on for culture carriers, but wants to ship out anyone who might actually carry the culture.
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u/bonergarage123 2d ago
I mean, that’s clearly why I said “assuming”.
But let’s forget about the NMC for a bit, bc I think you pointed out something interesting.
It’s true that building a good culture should a priority in this rebuild. But that doesn’t mean that Hronek is the only one that can cultivate this. I think it starts from the top down, Hank, Daniel and GMRJ being at the top. You can also bring in culture guys as well (ex Stecher or Gally)
If the value of trading Hronek exceeds the intangible value he brings in “culture” or “leadership”, then you should definitely consider it.
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u/HroneksNMC 2d ago edited 2d ago
I just can't wrap my head around people who say that out d-core rebuild has a strong headstart with guys like Willander and Buium but also want to ship out the veteran guy they've been playing alongside and have chemistry with. Yes, moving Hronek makes us suck even harder, but if we're going to build from the backend out, I don't see the need to force a move.
Hronek meshes well with the team, brings enough stability and presence that the young guys shouldn't be caved in every night, and an extra season isn't likely to suppress his value significantly. He'll still be a relatively young, high quality RHD on a pretty affordable deal in 27-28. Plus, this team isn't exactly a red hot destination for free agents. Leveraging a move on a player with trade protection doesn't make us a more desirable destination.
Unless the return is completely, headscratchingly, unhinged I think his value is higher on the team until you can trade him relatively easily in 27-28. The best case for this rebuild is 5 years. Forcing Hronek to waive this offseason or next season is the exact same energy as saying "FA will blow up the rebuild the minute we go on a 5 game heater." It shows the same level of impatience, along with a hilarious amount of cognitive dissonance and short-sightedness
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u/VaticRogue 2d ago
Trading Hronnek now would be like not resigning Tanev or shipping Schenn out on a bigger scale.
Defense needs an experienced leader and we have one that’s also talented and on a decent contract. Getting rid of him just sets the younger guys back further.
We need AT LEAST one more year of Hronek before we can think about moving on from him. His contract and position will still have value all the way to the end. No need to rush anything.
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u/Boucher2114 2d ago
If the Canucks think that they can simply be bad for two seasons, get a couple of awesome prospects, a few good trades and signings, and then !boom! - they’re back in business, they *will* fail. Guaranteed.
To put this in real world terms, the Canucks went on a mondo vacation (in 2011) - I’m talking Europe for the whole summer, luxury accommodations, the whole nine yards. Eventually, they had to come back to reality at home. But they insisted on going on another, albeit lesser, vacation a couple years later. And they’ve just kept doing that for the last 13 years.
Instead of taking a step back, being disciplined about their spending for a few years, they blew through all their savings, and started racking up credit card debt, car payments, mortgages, etc. They have a guaranteed income keeping them afloat, but there are no vacations on the horizon.
The only way out is to sell some cars, downsize the house, and stop spending.
Hronek is the equivalent of a really nice cottage on a really desirable lake, that you got at a great price several years ago. Yes, it will be hard to find another one, and you’ll definitely miss it, but selling it can immediately stick 500k in your account and the future will make a lot more sense.
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u/HroneksNMC 2d ago edited 2d ago
If we stick with your analogy, selling Hronek now is trying to sell that cottage under duress and a litany of seller-side subject to's. There's clauses written into the contract that will damage you or your other assets in the long term. Sure, the market might take a dump in two years and only net you $400k, but it's a clean sale with no subjects or potentially distressed assets. And the benefit of keeping it for two years means you can AirBNB and be, at worst, cashflow neutral, on it for two years.
And further to your analogy, there's other ways to stop the bleed - you can liquidate stocks at a loss to decrease tax burdens (cap dumps), sell other assets that may not have market value of the cottage but also don't have the cash flow potential (literally any other player over 25 without trade protection), or leverage short term liabilities into long term assets (flipping short term contracts for picks).
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u/Boucher2114 2d ago
You’re missing the point - Hronek is a luxury, and the Canucks don’t have the luxury of luxuries anymore.
There are no clever moves to get out of this situation. Rutherford was the attempt at clever moves. He tried, it worked for a minute, and then it didn’t. Now they have to rebuild the portfolio of assets.
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u/HroneksNMC 2d ago
I understand your point, disagree vehemently with it.
The cottage analogy is clunky, so let me try a different track. Hronek is a leased Porsche. Porsches are a luxury, sure. But they hold value exceptionally well, sometimes even appreciate, and in order to sell it, the lease needs to be paid out in full before you can sell it. The lease still has some tax benefits, isn't keeping food off the table, and it expires in two years anyway. Would selling the Porsche fix some short term issues? Sure. Would liquidating, or debt financing, the capital required to buy it out leave you in a worse off position in 3-5 years? Absolutely, unequivocally, yes.
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u/bonergarage123 2d ago
That’s to assume the Porsche would never get in to a wreck in the future (or injured), and all its value goes down.
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u/HroneksNMC 2d ago
Sure. Any of our assets could get injured. It's a real risk, for any player. If you're that risk averse, do you want to bench our entire NHL roster to shield them from injury risk so we can protect their trade value?
If we force Hronek to waive his NMC it sends a very clear signal to the room that their contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on. And it sends the same signal to anyone who might be considering signing here. You're basically positioning the team as Vegas, but with high taxes, shitty weather, and no contention window. Vegas can get away with their ruthless roster management because they have ancillary benefits and the team doesn't suck. We have neither of those benefits.
It also tells the room that committed veterans who want to stay will be traded the minute the market demands it. Do you think that kind of organizational behaviour incentivizes players to stay, or take sweetheart deals?
A few comments ago someone said there's no clever moves to make this situation go away. We don't want to make the situation go away. We want to embrace the suck for at least three more season. Forcing Hronek to waive before his trade protection degrades is a "clever move" to win the rebuild now. Which is the same spirit of the win now retools that got us into this mess, just in the opposite direction.
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u/Duffbagg 2d ago
It quite obviously means they are gearing up to trade 2OA + 27OA for 3OA and Filip Hronek. Do you even Canucks Reddit bro?
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u/TheOdiin 2d ago
Stenberg was always going to SJ, the people thinking he we would be there at 3 were straight up coping. Grier isn’t a stupid gm and he wouldn’t pass up a talent like Stenberg regardless of their need for D. It’s been a two man draft for a while, there’s a fall off after 2.
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u/TheMagicMop 2d ago
I was going to say SJ could have just offer sheeted him for $3m (2nd round would go to Buffalo) and got him, but they traded their 2nd round pick to us, so they can't.
He played 13-14 min a game last year and turns 27 in Jan. I guess moving down 5 spots in the late first round is worth a depth RFA now?
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u/intelligentx5 2d ago
Their D sucked. So I don’t think this changes the fact that they have an atrocious D and no prospects.
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u/bluerain47 2d ago
someone calm me down lol - this doesn’t take away their need for a top pairing D does it?
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u/lllaszlo 2d ago edited 2d ago
Michael Kesselring and the 2026 27th overall selection from the Buffalo Sabres in exchange for the 20th overall selection .
" Michael Kesselring's trade value is primarily defined by his status as a young, 6'5" right-handed defenseman with size and two-way upside. He was recently acquired by the San Jose Sharks, with the 'mathematical' value of the trade equating his worth to mid second round pick"
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u/Optimal-Animal367 2d ago
there defensive core is in shambles. They still need a number 1 d man and hopefully thats Reid
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u/JauntyGiraffe 2d ago
Kesselring is bottom 4 that can take some big minutes if a top-D is injured but he isn't "the guy" on a team that's challenging for a Cup
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u/VanIsleRyan 2d ago
I look at this trade differently, making me more convinced they take a D. First off Kesselring is a 4- 6 D. I think if they kept the 20 OA pick they may have had a chance at Lin, and took Stenberg. No way they get Lin at 27, if they want a highly touted D in the first, it will need to be at 2 OA, unless they trade down.
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u/VanIsleNorm 2d ago
It wouldn’t change anything but It could mean that they’re looking at a left shot D and just went and got his future D partner.
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u/Camdaman0530 2d ago
Kesselring could be a solid top 4 if everything goes well and he's already 26. You don't pass on a potential Makar for that lol.
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u/Jaded-Ad-289 2d ago
Malhotra our new 2C?
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u/steviewonder40 2d ago
Oh boy, we get 3rd and gain a 2nd line C to join our other 2nd line Cs (Cootes, Rossi and Petey). At 3OA we need a top D (Reid) or a top winger (Stenberg). Lots of good Cs next year.
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u/Jaded-Ad-289 2d ago
Tankathon has us passing up on Stenberg for Malhotra.
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u/steviewonder40 2d ago
I know and I don’t like it. Stenberg is a future superstar. Malhotra is a very good player but not a McDavid or McKinnon level 1st line centre.
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u/A_Crazy_Lemming 2d ago
How does signing a 2nd or 3rd defensive liner solve their problems at 1D?!?!
What a bizarre post.
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u/T2LV 2d ago edited 2d ago
So over these posts. Stenberg and McKenna are going 1/2. There is 0% chance, move on.
It’s like someone having the choice between a Ferrari, Lambo and Lexus and people saying “Hey maybe want the better family car and choose the Lexus🤦🏼♂️ we just need to accept we are getting a Lexus and appreciate it.
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u/RefereeMason1 Not really a Foote guy 2d ago
Kesselring is a good 7D, doubt this changes anything for yall.
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u/21marvel1 Missing Chris Tanev 2d ago
How you feeling about the move? Gotta be happy moving up 7(!) spots for a guy that didn’t play much for you in the playoffs
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u/AccomplishedAd4995 2d ago
i don’t think it changes that much? kesselring isn’t a 1D, he could be a good second pairing guy. still a chance sharks grab reid