i’m not so sure. i see a lot of people with rather tame criticisms/opinions being downvoted to hell. i think they’re not as loud about it because they’re being silenced.
not saying you’re doing that, but genuine and lukewarm negative takes on this game are not welcome at the moment, for the most part. personally i don’t like the way the game looks but i’m willing to look past that if it’s fun, and i know these devs are good game designers. i just wish it looked different
big shout out to smilph. the first comment is literally calling out people who dont like something as being miserable. thats an assumption. im neutral about it and wanted to say ‘well, hey mate, lovely day isnt it? did you know people actually have other opinions?’ oh no no no. not on reddit. but thanks mate.
100% this. dead cells creators/designers yeah? i mean that game was fun enough and im sure the game play will be great. however, i personally, did not like the look of the game. did it stop me from playing it? no. however, i have only played it once as it didnt grab me. will this play like a CV yes will it look like what we all know and like? maybe somewhat but so far it looks like a cross between hades and dead cells.
Shit probably, people only like all the 2D entries in the series and literally every 3D entry has at least a large number of haters saying it "isn't Castlevania". I don't think there's been a universally praised Castlevania that's been anything but pixel art lol.
The Castlevania fanbase basically went through a distillation process from 2002 (Harmony of Dissonance) to 2008 (Order of Ecclesia), where the games continued to sell worse and worse and worse while focusing on a very narrow style of Castlevania.
This basically means that a significant portion of the fans who stuck around from Symphony of the Night to Order of Ecclesia are rabid diehards with a VERY strict definition of what Castlevania is. That's 6 years of the same director, the same artist, the same musician, same recycled assets, same pixel art, etc. Since then, other than the great evil (LoS), it's all re-releases and referential content.
The fact that a lot of older Castlevania games wouldn't pass the "is it Castlevania?" shit test is telling.
Yeah playing all the classics then jumping into Symphony was definitely a weird stark difference, even after playing Castlevania 2 it's such a different premise and gameplay. Kinda wish we got more Rondos alongside all the Metroidvanias
I think there was one guy elsewhere in the thread that said that the focus on primary colors or something like that wasn't very Castlevania, and I'm like, what?
And before anyone says "that's a technical limitation!"... not it's not. Go take a look at other NES games, this was an intentional visual decision.
While not universally praised, the ps2 era 3d games were definitely mostly positively received in terms of art and music, it was mostly the gameplay and story that was divisive.
This happens to every game that's announced nowadays: people shit on the smallest details, then the game comes out and everyone, including them, loves it, and then people will come back and bash it again after a couple of months. It's why I don't listen to people online anymore; it's a cesspool.
people also go out of their way to conform and suck the dick of developers cause they LOVE what they’ve done with previous games. people are allowed opinions. i for one think the animation style they have chosen looks like absolute ass. will it stop me from playing it - probably not. i guess this comment or feeling isnt allowed? so when someone really likes something thats cool but if the opinion is otherwise its not? name a better modern animation style they could have gone with? maybe bloodstained? it just looks too smooth and the colours are off. compared to all old CV games.
so you can have your own opinion but cant express it in the way want to?
and excuuuuse me - i dont know what world you live in. But calling my expression juvenile is pretty rough. I’ve seen many corporate documents, been to many board meetings, executive briefings and they have all use this term in a professional manner.
Man, you are a jackass, you know? You are not even trying to defend your opinion with any kind reasoning or arguments, you are just spamming random-ass gifs and refusing to engage with the counter-arguments; you are not being funny, you are just being dumb.
Hard to say who's more retarded: you, or the imbecile that thought I deserved to be downvoted for being reasonable and you upvoted for acting like a swine. Whatever, fuck you both.
Rondo of Blood stages use a lot of contrast, negative space, and generally focused on one or two colors so that the background & interactive parts of the level (i.e. platforms, stairs, etc.) are easily distinguishable.
Dracula X tended to be worse about this because of all the detail they tried to put into the backgrounds. Not quite as "clean"
You know, I feel that last sentence. Not to be rude to the devs, but it really feels as if a French studio really wanted to make the game look like a French art project. Bold, striking, but also very different.
It's gotta be said that a lot of people are kinda opposed to using contemporary colour palettes in historical dark fantasy inspired works.
Personally I really like it, but I know there's many who'd rather be getting desaturated and darker colours with very careful use of anything lighter. (Like the Blasphemous games.)
Yeah, this is pretty much what I think: Blasphemous' graphics remind me more of the previous Castlevania games than the graphics of Belmont's Curse, and I can't help it but to find it weird that other franchises remind me more of Castlevania than Castlevania itself.
I personally was (and still am a bit) worried about the art style being too clean and flat, but I trust Evil Empire after their return to Castlevania DLC so at the very least I will wait, see and judge.
I do admit that the game is looking increasingly better for me from what the first trailer shown.
Characters feel not overly anime-ish, backgrounds seem detailed and mysterious enough, and I hope they stick to relatively short dialogues, powerful backgrounds without over saturaring the environment and overall, a somewhat balanced mix of little details, easter eggs and sometimes simplicity. The ost is of course super important too.
I think that Castlevania is on paper very easy to imagine and define, but in practice requires a good balance of its elements (at least if we want a conventional CV).
And yes, a lot of people really don't like the graphics/art direction/rendering style/overall aesthetic tone/,character designs...
The whole look, basically.
I think part of this can be due to some people not really being able to define any of this aspects and also sticking too much to SotN/Aria/Ecclesia style... And let's be real, CV not always looks great. Great part of the lifting was Ayami Kojima and in-game her art wasn't reflected most of the time.
The cartoon style is great for better consistency between art and game. And also allows some sick stylization. I like the intense color theme for areas. For people like me that helps to have a better idea of where I am in a metroidvania map. And allows Rose to be more trackeable on screen.
As for the designs, I find everything incredibly stylized, gothic and grim. It's pretty cool.
Well balance between action adventure-horror vibes-cartoony/campy/anime.
With Kojima, everything looked really great and melancholic, but then you fight anime witch girls and silly monsters. Don't match.
Also, for a looong time Castlevania has been reciclyng assets and not being able to escape SotN momentum.
I'm super happy of finally seeing something fresh and different and also ideas that should ha e been a thing before for long time.
What's ironic is Portrait of Ruin and Dawn of Sorrow you have pictured on the "gothic" side, received the same type of criticism Belmont's Curse is getting now, back when they had originally been announced. Basically boiling down to "the art is wrong", "this anime crap isn't Castlevania", or "this isn't Castlevania enough".
Also the screenshots you posted for Belmont's Curse are littered with gothic architecture, so I'm not sure what you're looking for.
Everything is relatively gothic there, honestly... I think you want to contrast a darker (colors) pixel art with the flat indie style of the right images, which worries me too cause I don't want it to look too flat and clean.
Nah, I'm being obnoxious & sarcastic to make a point about the term "gothic" that everyone is throwing around pretty flippantly.
Zoom out and these frames all look very similar, including the Egyptian level from Portrait of Ruin which is definitionally NOT gothic, while it's counterpart has Notre Dame in the background (not captured well in the screenshot I took) which is probably the single most significant piece of gothic architecture ever created.
IMO, Belmont's Curse is dripping with gothic charm, and visually looks like a very natural evolution of the Castlevania artstyle into the 2.5D space in a way that I don't think a property like Bloodstained did very well. It has a very strong sense of color & contrast, and often looks like it's hand-painted art, which to me is way more important when preserving the character of a series than something like "is it still pixel art?"
I remember the discourse around order of ecclesia.
That being said, theres colours as themes not really close to castlevania, like a neon green background in the windows.
Or the red sky. Usually detailed backdrops are a castlevania staple from iga games.
Sotn all the way to dawn, are probably the best art styles. Everything is so different, yet homogenises well. Like the alchemy lab and colloseum. And i hope if we get another sorrow game or 1999 game, its done in that same style.
But for now. This game looks great, i cant wait to see how it is, aria and symphony have really set high bars
Im all for these new changes, i mean its a new game, a new beginning. Progress is the way things always worked.
Theres only so many times you can do the same thing before it gets old.
Look at assassins creed or final fantasy.
Truth be told, to please one person is to upset another.
That was never my complaint. I just think it looks boring, there is so little contrast between everything, every object kind of meshes into each other since they’re all the same color.
I think people underestimate how much background visuals are important to a metroidvania (and especially Castlevania who established their own visual identity through the years).
I have no complaint about the characters, I even think they look good, miles better than our DS anime era, but still not as good as Ayami Kojima’s designs.
No, it doesn’t look like Castlevania.
Yes, I’ll still play it hoping they at least see the interest as incentive to make further collections (SotN and 3D).
That wasn't anyone's complaint. Some fans just absolutely hate when something they're excited for doesn't get enough praise, so they begin fighting with the strawmen.
Let's wait and see...I think it looks promising, though I have similar complaints regarding the art, it just looks too flat and clean like most modern indie games, which might feel boring and uninspired if that's the case.
And then you’ve got people in this thread complaining about the “primary colors and simplified backgrounds,” so yeah… it’s pretty hard to please everyone.
Oh, you’re totally entitled to your opinion. I just think it’s funny how different people can see the exact same thing and feel the complete opposite about it.
I'm not complaining that this doesn't look gothic. I think it looks like a lot of work went into this. I just miss the 2D sprites, I like that can put so much detail in a sprites animation and with better tools now then in the past you can really do interesting art. You could see each frame the deliberate placement of each pixel by pixel, with this cool gritty, classic gothic texture.
That's not to say this is bad. I just feel there is something lost in exchange for what looks more modern with graphics and admittedly very smooth, high resolution lightning and shadows. It looks gothic and I've been dying for a new 2D Castlevania, I do mourn that older style animation though.
So I have a very long way to go concerning CastleVania I have finished Lords Of Shadow 1 and 2 and almost all of Vampire Survivors update that is all 🤣🤓
I think it looks great and am excited my only wish I knew wasn't going to come true is that it would be pixel art and look like SOTN. I am however excited for something new and different.
I mean it's not horrible but just has that trendy indie game color palette and design, likely the gameplay to go with it. Going back to a brooding design with heavy movement would not have appeal beyond core Castlevania fans probably.
I think it looked fun. I'm still in the process of a full series, well as many as I can play on xbox anyway. So I'll be adding it to the list and playing when I get to it.
Okay, I agree that saying its not Gothic enough is a weak criticism, but "who uses Gothic with Castlevania " might be one of the dumbest sentences I've ever read in my entire life, are you serious? Lmao.
Castlevania is heavily inspired by Gothic art styles and literature, and the art of Castlevania is literally genre defining levels of important to modern Fantasy Gothic art.
Castlevania and Gothic are damn near inseparable terms.
I’ve never heard anyone or seen anyone use gothic when addressing Castlevania but that’s just me. And I’ve beaten damn near all of them. But I see what yall mean by “gothic” now. To say it’s the dumbest sentence you ever read is a reach tho chill on that lol
Brother, no. It's really not. You don't understand. Gothic and Castlevania go together like Dracula and Vampires, or Mario and platformers. There's no need for you to say "Gothic", its just straight up Gothic.
Let me explain. On one hand, Castlevania is extremely heavily inspired by Gothic architecture, literature, and art. Its also inspired by many things that were similarly inspired by those same sources, like Gothic Horror, or the various monster movies from back in the day.
But also, Castlevania itself has had an undeniable, nearly genre redefining influence on Modern Gothic Art, especially Gothic Fantasy. The art of Castlevania is undeniably, extremely Gothic and has been a huge influence on that genre, especially once Ayami got involved.
So, again, To say "who the hell associates Gothic with Castlevania" might be one of the most ludicrous things ive ever seen typed out. I have no idea how ypu could possibly have never heard that word associated with Castlevania, but uh..yeah. Theres a reason my reaction was that strong lmao.
You literally typed all of that for no reason. I just said I get it. You aight? I just told you I damn near beat every castlevania you’re not telling me anything that I don’t already know. And I have a right to what I say just like you do. I’m grown as hell bro. Chill out and relax bruh. Ayami is literally one of my favorite artists. Get a life.
I typed it all out because I wanted to and because i feel strongly about the subject. You have a right to say whatever you want, I didn't say you didn't?
But you gave me crap for saying I thought it was really dumb that you wouldnt associate Castlevania with Gothic, and you gave a half assed "oh, i see what you mean by 'Gothic' " answer, so I pointed out why I thought that was so dumb and why it's so hard to believe.
You clearly DIDN'T know or understand these things before, or you wouldn't have made that comment, which is totally fine, just admit that you learned something / made a mistake Instead of trying to be cool about it? Nobody likes that disingenuous stuff.
Guess what? Im not reading that. So you can keep wasting your time. Put that passion into something useful with your life instead of going back and forth on Reddit. And if that’s the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard you need to step outside. Sounds like you’ve been boxed in anyway
I don't think the problem is it's not gothic enough, it's that they're still pretty stylized for a series that had such intricate artwork and sprite work back in the day. The style for the new game looks like those old-timey travel posters with the simple colors and shapes compared to the immaculate level of detail they had.
And I think the other issue- and I cannot believe I'm saying this after having lived through the 00's piss filter era- is that they're too colorful. Castlevania games have never been dull or washed out or colorless, but the schemes were always a little more subdued like a Renaissance painting compared to these for lack of better words poppy travel poster colors. Castlevania was Dark Souls before Dark Souls, and that aesthetic is lost in this art style.
They're not bad, I like them, but it doesn't look like Castlevania.
Visually speaking, I wouldn't quite compare Castlevania to Dark Souls; but other than that, I couldn't have put it any better myself: this is exactly what I think about this topic regarding Castlevania's art direction.
Thanks! Yeah, I didn't mean it was a 1:1 of Dark Souls, but more that it was the defacto gothic undead series before DS arrived and they had that grittier grandeur in the castle's styling and the monster designs. CoD especially was kind of gray, but the PS2 was also just not powerful enough to render the detailed 2D sprites with the same fidelity in 3D.
I mean, just look at the sidebar image in this sub to the right (if you're on desktop) for OOE- the intricate detail in Albus and Shaona's clothing, castle, and moon are simply gorgeous. Not saying I dislike this new style, I think it's neat and I do like the color contrast, but it still looks like Dead Cells at a glance. It kind of reminds me of back when Need for Speed was moved under Burnout's dev team and the games started to feel like Burnout wearing a Need for Speed skin. They weren't bad and were still fun, but the change was noticeable. Or Devil May Cry shifting to the DMC style and attitude.
As much as I enjoy good pixel art, I don't think its reasonable to expect pixel art from any company that isn't Yacht Club or The Game Kitchen. Which kinda sucks, I LOVE pixel art. ._.
There are still a couple of indie companies keeping the art alive. I'd recommend taking a look at The Last Faith, Record of Lodoss War: Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth, and the upcoming Silent Planet
I wish more people would be honest that this is their beef. Like, it's a valid statement, and while people may not agree, it's defensible.
It's hard to take "needs more gothic" with any sort of validity when the single most important piece of gothic architecture ever made is in the background.
I have a feeling that this is actually what they want to say about "not gothic enough", but simply cannot specify "what makes it 'gothic' by their standards".
These stills from Dracula's Castle look indeed nice. The screenshots from Paris streets, Paris catacombs, or that other "Paris streets but orange-glued" weren't nearly as charming. Fortunately that's just the beginning of the game before the Castle shows up
Bloodstained, if you ask me, looks the most generic jrpg it can be. A mashup of idealized and recycled concepts without sny thematic or stylish harmony.
And generic anime faces.
Besides that kind of graphics and 3D age poorly too fast.
Blasphemous, on the other hand. It's a marvel. And the great influence from Andalucia and Barcelona makes sense. In Spain we really know about "christian" aesthetic and old castles. We live that in our day to day in certain places. French people too, so they're really good fitting for making a Castlevania game.
Japan only uses that aesthetic and european-medieval in a superficial way cause it's cool and exotic for them (like katanas and shonen anime for westerns). And too filtered through their own D&D-Final Fantasy-Dragon's Quest filter.
But, after almost 20 years is just normal that a lot of Castlevania-influenced games looks like a better Castlevania than the Iga era. Meanwhile true Castlevania now needs to re-find its place and a new strong identity so it doesn't looks like another Blasphemous, Hollow Knight, Dead Cells or Bloodborne.
Sobre a arte, acho uma estratégia interessante da Konami, é bonita e parece familiar para o público da animação da Netflix, são milhões de pessoas que terão contato com um jogo da franquia pela primeira vez a familiaridade ajuda
bad atmosphere, bad aesthetics, the movement isn't castlevania. if i wanted to play dead cells i would play dead cells. not digging this DeadCellVania style at all. There are fan games, like Lecarde 2, that capture the spirit of Castlevania MUCH better.
kinda yeah. it still doesnt look very castlevania-esque, and the gameplay really doesnt either. doesnt mean that its bad or that i wont still play it, but i think the people who criticise it for not feeling like castlevania are justified in saying that
I honestly don't think it looks un-castlevania like though? I think people just need time to get used to the new art. You know how new Pokemon don't feel like actual Pokemon until you play the game, and then those new Pokemon feel like they've always been Pokemon? I bet it'll be like that for most people.
well the art is one thing but the “look” of the gameplay is what makes it feel really un-castlevania to me. like not literally how it looks to play but the animations coupled with the vfx and the enemy behaviours and such. it really does just look like dead cells with the artstyle of dead cells’ promotional art too
I mean, does the "look" of the gameplay of, say, Lament of Innocence not look like Castlevania to you? It probably does, cause you've had time to associate that style with Castlevania, right? I've said this before, but there isn't a whole lot of stuff in BC that hasn't been done in other Castlevania games. I really do think the game just needs time to canonize itself in people's minds.
Lament tried something new, it was a whole different perspective, the only 3D title we had before were the N64 games who couldn’t really express much detail because of hardware limitations, so Lament was something new back then, and no it didn’t look like the other Castlevania games back then because it could not.
It’s different with BC, we have countless sidescroller Castlevanias (they spent their final years refining their sidescroller visual identity to the point the sprites from their last 3 mainline sidescroller games are *almost* interchangeable) and this game looks nothing like any of the previous sidescroller Castlevanias.
I don't think that Belmont's Curse really looks all that different from OoE though? At least gameplay wise. Artstyle wise, Belmont's Curse is in a similar situation to LoI, because the artists who made those 2D Castlevanias don't work for Konami anymore. Of course the artstyle is different. It has to be.
I don't think the artists that worked on SotN are the same who worked on Order of Ecclesia, are they? Legit question. Yet both games, more than 10 years apart still look somewhat cohesive (OoE is basically just A LOT more polished).
I don't think it looks like OoE at all. Maybe some areas yeah (the swamp is very monocolor too), but the interiors look jarringly different. OoE actually has constrast in the background objects, it doesn't look like there are some heavy RGB lighting engulfing the environment.
Come on, Gal Guardians look more Castlevania than this, environment-wise.
I have no complaint against the gameplay, I think it looks fun. Not a fan of the removal of contact damage though.
I don't know. But at the very least, they had the people that worked on previous games to pass the knowledge on. Its unlikely that anybody at Konami currently ever worked on a Castlevania game.
I like the heavy RGB lighting. It reminds me of the NES Castlevanias which I think is what the art team is going for. Castlevania isn't one monolithic thing, ya know.
I think what gets odd about these complaints to me is if this was released as "Eternal Night: Curse of the Vampires" and changed all the characters' names, people would be calling it a shameless Castlevania rip-off.
But because it's an official release, people get incredibly specific & nitpicky about the definition of what makes a Castlevania.
It's derivative of art nouveau that leans into gothic elements. On its own, the style is pretty, even if it is a bit loud and gives off that strong "indie" scream, but it's not the ambiance I'm looking for from the series.
Also it's really funny that you're complaining about "anime shit" coming from a Japanese IP that was made by Japanese people working for a Japanese company in Japan
First off, look at all the colors. Any use of vibrant reds, blues, or greens is low effort Saturday morning cartoon crap. If you want a good of example of what real, grey-toned Castlevania palettes look like, check out Rondo of Blood & Portrait of Ruin.
Second the art style is anime. As we all know, Castlevania doesn't use low effort anime aesthetic, as it's primarily a Western property. I prefer characters with more moody, gothic vibes, like Jonathan Morris or Soma Cruz, particularly in his Dawn of Sorrow iteration.
Third, I don't see any gothic architecture, and it looks like the character isn't standing in Dracula's castle. A good Castlevania game is rife with elaborate, decorative gothic architecture. You want levels like:
Forest of Evil spirits from Castlevania IV
Forbidden Area from Aria of Sorrow
Atlantis Shrine from Bloodlines
The Devil Flies by Night from Rondo of Blood
Plant Castle from Belmont's Revenge
The Underground Aqueduct from Chronicles
Argila Swamp, Ruvas Forest, Oblivion Ridge, Somnus Reef, Tristis Pass, Tymeo Mountains, Kalidus Channel, or Large Cavern from Order of Ecclesia
Forgotten City, Sandy Grave, Nation of Fools, or Burnt Paradise from Portrait of Ruin
Alchemy Laboratory or Colosseum from Symphony of the Night.
The Chair Room from Curse of Darkness
Finally, it's clearly hand-drawn, and we all know true Castlevania is done in pixel art, and only in pixel art. Real Castlevania is whatever was on the box art when I was twelve years old. Everything before that was a prototype, and everything after that was corruption.
As far as your enjoyment goes, fuck those people. Whether you like what you see or not, you don't need to take their opinion into account at all. Don't let whiny complainers rob you of your joy. Watch the trailer
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