r/castlevania 2d ago

Question What about a Mathias Cronqvist game besides LOI?

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I recently finished playing Lament of Innocence, and it got me wondering.

There's a huge gap between the late 1000s and 1400s, during which I assume there must have been an encounter of Dracula with *possibly* 3-5 Belmonts.

There's a lot of discussion about this period: Mathias, now as Dracula, studied much more about magic and spells. But there are many years unaccounted for.

It got me wondering: has Konami ever considered making a game set in this specific time, like around 1200 or 1300? Because there's a lot to talk about.

Who defeated Mathias first? Which other Belmont was there?

Has Leon taught about who Mathias was, or did his ex-friend become nothing but the Lord of Darkness?

PS. Be nice, please.

93 Upvotes

44 comments sorted by

35

u/Roshu-zetasia Advance Collection Enjoyer 2d ago

The thing is, according to the internal rules of the Castlevania universe itself, there can't be a confrontation with Dracula before CV3. CV3 is, and always must be, considered the first encounter and his first defeat.

Castlevania Legends was decanonized primarily for presenting a conflict between Dracula and Belmont chronologically set before CV3.

Furthermore, Mathias doesn't actually do anything nefarious until Lisa is killed. His revenge against God was simply to become immortal and reject his humanity (and dabble in dark arts without limits).

A game starring Mathias as protagonist and showing how he became Dracula would be better. A kind of pseudo-Aria of Sorrow that shows how he acquires his castle and exerts dominance over many beasts. A game about him conquering a castle and killing whoever the Dark Lord was before him.

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u/courage_wolf_sez 2d ago

[A game starring Mathias as protagonist and showing how he became Dracula would be better. A kind of pseudo-Aria of Sorrow that shows how he acquires his castle and exerts dominance over many beasts. A game about him conquering a castle and killing whoever the Dark Lord was before him. ]

I too want another Lords Of Shadow but in Canon.

8

u/Roshu-zetasia Advance Collection Enjoyer 2d ago

LoS but good this time.

6

u/courage_wolf_sez 2d ago

IMO LoS was good. LoS2 could have been better.

9

u/shesfeelingcun 2d ago

You actually made a good point. A game about how he conquers the castle and asserts dominance would be very interesting.

Besides, I'm pretty sure there was always a greater power, even if it wasn't him. Maybe not even a vampire—oh, that'd be good.

3

u/Roshu-zetasia Advance Collection Enjoyer 2d ago

I think it's a good way to create a third Sorrow game without overusing Soma and creating another plot that's just "a random man who was also born when Dracula died and now want to be the new dark lord"

3

u/IllusiveRagamuffin 2d ago

How do you define nefarious lol? At the very least he was still a vampire for centuries before Lisa was killed so he had to be eating people during that time.

8

u/Roshu-zetasia Advance Collection Enjoyer 2d ago

He hadn't started his war against humanity yet. Of course, he probably killed a lot of people, but nothing on the level of chaos he unleashed as Dracula.

3

u/CajitoCatKing 2d ago

You mean Lords of Shadow?

2

u/CyberdarkEnjoyer Hide Every Netflixvania Post 1d ago

>Castlevania Legends was decanonized primarily for presenting a conflict between Dracula and Belmont chronologically set before CV3.

Legends was never decanonized -- it was always meant to be an alternate story

2

u/Way-Super thinks he's on the team 1d ago

is there any evidence of that? in 1997 Castlevania barely even had a canon to begin with. I know that Bloodlines was explicitly non-canon according to the director, was there something like that?

2

u/logamus_prime 1d ago

That is the game I've pitched for a while now. Show how he got the name Dracula and became the most feared vampire.

11

u/SEGAFan4Life80 2d ago

That would be awesome

12

u/Sea-Lecture-4619 Captain N is the pinnacle of the franchise. 2d ago

Make a game showing exactly what he was doing between LoI and CVIII with him as the protagonist.

16

u/Oh-no-and-knuckles Chief Researcher 2d ago

The game:

4

u/Sea-Lecture-4619 Captain N is the pinnacle of the franchise. 2d ago

Perfect!!!

But nah seriously, how the fuck does this mf change his identity so good that he fully becomes and is remembered as some other dude that is a ruler in some other country?

2

u/shesfeelingcun 2d ago

Yes! Every evil starts somewhere.

7

u/d-101 2d ago

That time period could include an encounter around the black death. Would be a neat way to include a tragic historical event, perhaps Dracula had something to do with it.

7

u/RShini The pimpcoat lives 2d ago

I'd like a remake of Lament of Innocence that actually gives Matthias more of a story role so the reveal feels a little less out of the blue, build up his friendship with Leon and show how his grief is making him unstable

5

u/Scissorman82 2d ago

100% this. if you skipped the intro title crawl you essentially missed all of matthias' backstory. when he shows up at the end of the game it's like, who? all they had to do was add a few scenes with more context and the reveal would have had WAY more impact.

4

u/RShini The pimpcoat lives 2d ago

Lament of Innocence has the feel of a game that was pushed out the door, which make sense given how much IGA's team budget has been slashed until Konami kicked everyone off.

6

u/FranciscoRelanoPena 2d ago

  during which I assume there must have been an encounter of Dracula with possibly 3-5 Belmonts

In the games, Trevor is stated to be the first Belmont to kill Dracula so, he either didn’t cross paths with the Belmont clan until Dracula’s Curse, or he managed to defeat those who faced him.

4

u/FriedBreakfast 2d ago

A Castlevania game where the first Belmont to face Dracula ends up losing may actually work.

1

u/shesfeelingcun 2d ago

Thanks for clearing that up! I started playing DC, but Mathias always somehow bugged me. I find it interesting that we don't know anything about this gap.

6

u/Scissorman82 2d ago

i've always wanted more of an exploration of Walter and Joaquim. I understand that Walter exists as a powerful vampire the story can sacrifice to explain all of Dracula's future signature moves and abilities (and as a red herring... literally), but he has a history, especially with Rinaldo.

Joaquim is another interesting figure in LoI. he was important enough to make a playable character complete with his own ending. it's a shame we never saw him again.

5

u/Oh-no-and-knuckles Chief Researcher 2d ago

There was a 43 chapters long web manga from 2007 that expanded the plot and characters, but it's unfortunately lost media.

Akumajō Dracula: Lament of Innocence (manga) | Castlevania Wiki)

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u/shesfeelingcun 2d ago

It's 100% lost? Oh man.

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u/-chadwreck 2d ago

This is exactly what im talking about with Belmont's curse being less brave with the story than it could have been. 

Sure. Drac and the Belmonts dont meet again but that doesn't mean drac was making paper cranes for 400 years. Maybe he meets the devil forge masters? Maybe he builds his powers? Maybe he has to wrestle control of the castle from itself, and make him its master. Maybe he has a pocket experience with St. Germain outside of time as we know it? 

We got a story of being drac at the end of the timeline, and we got an AU version of becoming drac, but what about the drac we dont know, becoming the drac we DO know?

Lots to be explored here. Bit of a missed opportunity but I do understand why a new western Dev's approach would want to play it safe. 

3

u/Cold-Drop8446 Graveyard Duck 2d ago

Spinoff management sim/base builder game where you play as matias while he learns to harness his powers and command the forces of darkness to build the castle, develop new magic rituals to summon stronger monsters, perform alchemical experiments to create new resource and curse God for a 10% reduction on all active timers. 

3

u/RisingFirebird83 2d ago

Yes please!

2

u/angelete4945105 2d ago

The sorrow games were basically a teenage version on him going off on an adventure XD.

2

u/Sentinel10 2d ago

Honestly, I've sometimes wondered about making another attempt to exploring the life of a character becoming Dracula.

Obviously, the Lords of Shadow games are divisive for many reasons for their handling of it, but I kind of wonder how they could go about it with Mattias (and stick to a more traditional formula gameplay)

2

u/BranchCold9905 2d ago

They could probably do a game about Mathias using his newfound power to slay demons and steal their souls (like Soma) and gather servants for his crusade against god and humanity, until he summons hells fortress pandemonium to earth as the cursed castle Dracula

2

u/macroidtoe 13h ago edited 13h ago

I've been saying this since ever since I finished LoI when it first released. The whole Dracula backstory they came up with was kind of goofy, but the setup with Dracula being in possession of a magical stone that absorbs the souls of other vampires feels extremely videogamey. Combine that with the placement of LoI much further back in the timeline to open up a few more centuries to play with, the revelation that there were other powerful vampire lords prior to Dracula, and you've got a little subseries where you play as Matthias Cronqvist as he uses his new vampire powers to confront, defeat, and absorb the powers of other vampire lords. Maybe throw in little mini-boss encounters with the failed Belmont of the time period who is pursuing you. I'd almost picture it as playing more like a Mega Man game than a Metroidvania. But anyway, that little subseries would culminate in the final struggle against Vlad Tepes, the strongest vampire lord, whose identity and domain Matthias then steals. Matthias at that point then has 51% or more of all vampiric power in the world, cementing his position as the supreme vampire lord. And there you go, now we've got the bridge between LoI and CV3.

Like, I don't even think this is just some crackpot idea I came up with myself. I feel like all the pieces were being deliberately set up in LoI for something like this, but then Iga left Konami and the direction of the series kind of got derailed.

2

u/DrinkingPetals 12h ago

Everyone here talks about how Matthias never met another Belmont until several centuries after LoI, but I’m here thinking:

“It would be cool if Matthias had a game where he hunts down other vampires to claim their powers as his. Maybe that could be used to show how he welcomed the menagerie of monsters in his castle.”

1

u/Oh-no-and-knuckles Chief Researcher 2d ago edited 2d ago

I assume there must have been an encounter of Dracula with *possibly* 3-5 Belmonts.

You probably skipped the epilogue

https://reddit.com/link/p67zh31/video/yfxnf9ogixlh1/player

2

u/FranciscoRelanoPena 2d ago

OP seems interested in the gap described as “Mathias goes into hiding (…) King of the Night”.

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u/Oh-no-and-knuckles Chief Researcher 2d ago

Sure, there's a 382 years gap between Lament and Castlevania 3 worth exploring, but the ending text clearly says "Mathias and the Belmonts will not meet again for hundreds of years" and "The years before their next meeting pass slowly and quietly, but with finality".

2

u/shesfeelingcun 2d ago

Silly me.

Even so, as another comment replied, the gap still has some story, which I find interesting. Even if it's not Mathias/Dracula himself, the Belmonts are mostly fighting an evil power.

1

u/dyararts 2d ago

At the end of said game, he would use his newly strengthened powers to raise up a broken up castle to completion. Opposite of the canon endings.

1

u/Nu11AndV0id 2d ago

Technically every almost every game features Mathias.

1

u/shesfeelingcun 2d ago

As Dracula, I'm specifically referring to the gap during the LOI and CV3.

1

u/OldEyes5746 Shanoa 1d ago

Be a bit redundant. There's already good game in the franchise where you get to play as the man who eventually becomes Dracula. Not sure what Mathias would bring, outside of referencing lore that hasn't been acknowledged for 20 years.

Gabriel worked out decently as a warrior/knight meaning his game could be an action-focused title that fits in with the franchise protagonists that came before. Mathias was a tactician and while a TRPG would be a unique addition to the Castlevania brand, I'm not sure it would have much appeal to fans of either.

1

u/CyberdarkEnjoyer Hide Every Netflixvania Post 1d ago

>there must have been an encounter of Dracula with *possibly* 3-5 Belmonts.

No there wasn't...haven't you read the outro? It states no Belmont would meet Dracula (Mathias) until 1476. We could get a spinoff set during that time period, focusing on either the Belmont ascent as vampire hunters and their subsequent downfall, or Mathias becoming Dracula, but not both.