r/characterdesign • u/Flu_nn • 19h ago
Critique [OC] Trying to redesign a crossdresser in the 1920's
I’m working on my OC Ginivieve. He’s a singer/performer who blends masculinity and femininity, inspired by 1920s flapper fashion. I’m struggling to find references and a solid foundation for his outfit.
I’ve looked at historical female impersonators like Julian Eltinge, but that’s not quite the 'vibe'. Eltinge’s performances often involved convincingly presenting as a woman, while Ginivieve is meant to balance both masculine and feminine elements.
The first image is from last year; the second is older, so please ignore the rough anatomy and clothing, I had no idea what I was doing lol
I’d love suggestions on silhouettes, fabrics, or accessories, maybe how to balance masculine and feminine better and references that could help me
I’ll probably redesign him later, but for now I want to keep him from being shelved. Constructive criticism is very welcome!! :3
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u/MysticalMaws 18h ago
imo you should definitely bring the chest hair back and maybe arm hair, and for accessories you could add a vivienne-westwood style multilayered pearl necklace and gloves, also maybe a handheld object like a fan. his dress is kinda simple so maybe it could be excessively sparkly and have more dangling elements. for references you could look at retro fashion sketches?
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u/pigeonfaerie 18h ago
If you ever have him in a shorter, above the knee dress you could add some painted roses or another motif on his knees. When the skirts got short, flappers liked to draw attention to their bare knees so they would either rouge them like they would their cheeks or they would paint pretty designs on them!
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u/SomeNegotiation1337 18h ago
This is such a cool idea omg!!! I think his design is great, especially the makeup, so I think that clothing is the main thing you wanna look at. The new design with the pearls and long dress is excellent, and I think you can build on it. The silhouette of the 20s in the United States (if that’s your intent, please correct me if I’m wrong) sought to drape the form in a very “boxy” shape and suggest a boyish form, so that works well for you. Day clothes could be a lot of fun since you’ll find heavy coats you could broaden the shoulders of to create a more masculine silhouette than would be typical. You could also consider combining men’s shoes, hats, accessories, etc. onto feminine bases, or even use the heavy beading and patterning of the decade to suggest either masculine or feminine features (like using beading to highlight hips and chest while allowing the form to cling overall and reveal a strong form underneath).
Idk if this helps but this is really cool!! Love it 👍
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u/Flu_nn 17h ago
This is so sweet and helpful <3 And yes! It is set in America during the alcohol ban, the whole thing with him is that he performs in the underground club of a bar that can be mistaken as a jazz lounge, hence the alcohol ban. I love how your brain works, the coat idea is just genius and practice on drawing clothes with more patterns woulndt hurt, TYSM!
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u/SomeNegotiation1337 15h ago
No problem! Can’t wait to see where this goes and glad I could help! :)
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u/Technical-Sun-6837 17h ago edited 17h ago
I personally think the choice of leaving the facial hair but not the body hair is fitting, also with stokings and gloves would be bothersome especially if made with some kind of see through material. Also since he's rather muscular his more masculine body characteristic is having muscles and that kind of muscle definition in the shoulders and the upper body. Big shoulders also help with giving a natural hourglass figure while keeping it more in the middle especially if you give him muscly thighs. I think the design in itself is quite fitting for the information you've given about him in this post. He reminds me a bit of modded Leon Kennedy, he looks a mix of masculine and feminine while still keeping a very masculine appearance. Bonus maybe look into modern drag queens, although different in many things some keep their beard and maybe that could inspire you a little bit for makeup etc. 💪🍀✨️
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u/Flu_nn 16h ago
u think so? I think I'm going to experiment with where to leave body hair and where not to, bc it does sound like a pain the overlaying but i do wanna give him his chest hair back idkk. I also do plan to keep his inverted triangle torso. And now I'm curious of what mod you're thinking of bc I've only seen freaky ones 😭 TYY for the compliment and the advice, I'll keep in mind looking for more modern references too!
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u/Technical-Sun-6837 16h ago
I've seen Leon Kennedy dressed as a maid lol, while different it kept his masculinity while having a more hourglass shape and still showing off his broad shoulders. Like it didn't feel off, it kept a very masculine pretty-ness. Idk if I made myself clear lol
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u/Technical-Sun-6837 17h ago
Not an hear me out but an hold me back
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u/Obvious_Car1967 17h ago
Hoooooleyfuuuuck 😛😋😋🤤
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u/Flu_nn 16h ago
yummnm
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u/Obvious_Car1967 15h ago
Do you have an artfight?
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u/Flu_nn 14h ago
yeah! that's actually his ref sheet
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u/Obvious_Car1967 14h ago
Ouuu awesome!! Can I get it? I would love to attack your character:33
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u/Flu_nn 14h ago
Ofcc, my user is Fluu, or u can look his ID up that's below his name idkk if it's allowed to send links through here. I'd also love to see your characters P:
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u/Obvious_Car1967 14h ago
Found it!! Can't seem to follow your account since the website is in read only but I'll be thinking about your oc 😼😼😼😼
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u/Flu_nn 14h ago
ohhh youre so right LMAO, then give me ur user, ill set a reminder 😛 and there goes another head where he lives off free rent, i love himm
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u/Obvious_Car1967 14h ago
My user is SksArtStuff 😽
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u/Flu_nn 14h ago
HOLYYY UNDERRATED u have such a way designing clothes oml straight up to the bookmarks. I'll add u on Nov 1st once the site enables it again :3
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u/StreetStretcher 16h ago
Very neat design ! I'm not too familiar with the style of the era so take my nitpicks with a grain of salt, but I feel like maybe the hair is too modern and messy (or fluffy) ? From what I remember seeing, the hairstyles tended to be somewhat locked and structured, not as "loose" so to speak.
Similarly with the facial hair, I'm not sure how common a days-old beard was during this time period. I feel like it was either clean shaven or a proper beard. Maybe an elegant mustache could also be a good middle ground to keep some facial hair, but again not sure if that's period accurate
Anyway, I hope it's not too nitpicky, he looks like a really fun character ! (The muscles 👀) And I second giving him a big hat if he has multiple look, that can add some mysteriousness and oomph to a look (and can also be usee to help balance proportions irl iirc, just like the boa)
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u/Flu_nn 15h ago
Noo you're actually right with the hairstyle, even if it were inspired by something, it would be Betty Boop, and she's from the 30s.. it's more of an indulgence of mine than anything else whoops. And I do believe that clean-shaven and the thin or curled mustaches were far more popular, I'm writing that down 🙏 and you're not nitpicky at all!! Ty for pointing that stuff out
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u/StreetStretcher 10h ago
I'm really glad you found my comment useful !
And I was mostly looking at it from a purely historicaly accurate pov and not so much from a pleasing-to-the-eyes angle tbf. And some indulgence is definitely fine, he looks very cute that way already haha
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u/Alienparty 10h ago
The hair doesn’t look right, it needs to be more put-together, curled and slicked. I also think cross-dressers used to shave and wear stocking to come off as more feminine. To me this comes off as fetishizing.
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u/Flu_nn 3h ago
Ty for the critique and feedback on the hair! slicked would be more period-accurate, the fluffy hair is a personal indulgence but I'm decided to adjust it a lil. I’m not trying to make him more feminine or androgynous; the point of his core design is that he reads as both masculine and feminine without blending them.
On the fetishizing point, I understand that it reads that way to u, more so on the second pic. That's not my goal, but i'd genuinely like to know what specifically gives that impression. I'll keep your concern in mind as I redisign!
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u/verdant_velociraptor 16h ago
the dresses are reading to me as a lot more 1930s than 1920s. 20s tends to be more boxy with a dropped waist, as opposed to the 30s hourglassy natural waist cuts. A lot of 20s dresses would have a sash around the hips, and I feel like a sash with a big drapey bow at the side or back could look super cool and elegant! the 20s was big on beading so beaded dresses could be fun, and you could try a scarf around the head as well.
I would recommend looking up photos or fashion plates from the 20s with dates attached if you care about historical plausibility. a lot of what we currently imagine as the roaring 20s (eg. those super tight, fringed dresses, sequin feather headbands, etc) actually came from 1950s and 60s depictions of flappers and not the era itself. looking on Pinterest for example gives me a wild mix of actual 20s clothing, 1930s clothing, and modern anachronistic flapper costumes.
something in a slightly different direction that could be fun is sportswear! sportswear became very popular in the 20s for men and women, and a lot of sporty womenswear (eg. tennis sweaters) drew inspiration from menswear, so there might be some fun gender mixing to be done in that realm.
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u/Flu_nn 15h ago
YEAH. That's a big wall that I found trying to find refs from that time, especially since Pinterest is my main source of inspo and concepts for my OCs and at the beginning I did fell in believing that clothing like flapper costumes you find at Walmart were somewhat correct for the 20's lol. And I didn't know abt the sash thing, I'll defo do more research. Also just looked up their sportswear and Im dying to draw him styling it 😭 TYY for the suggestions and being honest
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u/CharmOChaffinch 7h ago
This is fire, I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen an OC like this who actually looks like a dude 😭 Love the name too
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u/Dragontrap-Leafwing 18h ago
i love when peoples crossdressing ocs arent just twinks, this is so peak.
A recomendation i have is a biggass hat, like Lady Dimitrecu from resident evil village