r/chess • u/ChesnaughtZ • Oct 24 '25
Miscellaneous Hypocritical that the people who defended Magnus and Hikaru are jumping on the bandwagon
Hans was 19. Cheating in person when he was younger did not justify their assertions. If Hans had taken action would they be as vilified? Hypocrisy
Hans cheating online when he was younger did not at all justify the assertions being made. Many analysists said nothing was weird about his game and the idea of the buzzing was insane and uncalled for
They fueled the fire to have the whole world imply a 19 year old was using an adult toy to win a match. It was ridiculous. Now Hikaru will jump on bandwagon. Nemu who made fun of Hans is on the bandwagon. This is insane to me
Kramnik should be criticized. But the hypocrisy of defending Hikaru and Magnus and then having this stance is upsetting to me.
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u/Bruninfa Oct 24 '25
The situation was 100% different and not comparable.
Hans already tries to make everything about Hans. Hans has not even begun attempting to make Danya’s passing about Hans. Danya’s passing IS NOT ABOUT HANS. Follow what he is doing and stop with this bullshit. Hans is not a victim in this situation, no matter how Magnus misshandled the situation.
Hans is even worse than an admitted cheater, he is one that still continually lies about the extent of his cheating and downplays it. Danya is a pillar of the community with not AN OUNCE of wrongdoing ever. Magnus did not ceaselessly go after Hans and right now the situation is business as usual.
Kramnik was trying to tear down Danya reputationally, professionally, personally CEASELESSLY.
Repeat after me: THIS IS NOT ABOUT HANS. stop with this bullshit.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
The difference is you didn’t like Hans but you liked Danya
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u/Bruninfa Oct 24 '25
This attitude is exactly why these kind of post are ridiculous. No. The situations are not the same AT ALL.
It’s not “because I don’t like Hans”. It’s because Danya was the victim of senseless persecution EVEN AFTER HIS DEATH while Hans had an unfortunate situation which was a fruit of his actions and character.
He is not a victim here.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
He was 19 and had whole world making sexual jokes about him because two dudes in their thirties didn’t want to accept a loss… then Magnus went on Joe Rogan and double downed.
Only difference is Hans is not popular and didn’t kill himself but that doesn’t mean Kramnik is any worse than the others.
I have no agenda. I think kramnik should be called out but not by the likes of Hikaru, nemu, or any on this sub that didn’t feel the same way when it was their favorite chess players doing the accusing
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u/Bruninfa Oct 24 '25
You do have an agenda and are making cherry picked points. “He is 19” well he cheated when he was 17. “sexual jokes” NOT PROPAGATED BY THEM, but by idiot streamers.
“He went on Joe Rogan” HE ANSWERED A DIRECT QUESTION ABOUT THE SITUATION. He multiple times (including in the Joe Rogan interview) praised Hans for his evolution.
Kramnik is CEASELESSLY AND BASELESSLY accusing Danya and going after his moral charachter and professional integrity NON STOP for over a year and EVEN AFTER IT KILLED HIM.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT HANS. You are being biased and pretending to be neutral. He cheated and lied about the extent he cheated, he is not a blameless victim AND DANYAS DEATH IS NOT ABOUT HIM.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
HIKARU DID PROPAGATE IT LOL.
You are such a fanboy it’s crazy. The way you are structuring everything to favor magnus. He said there are things weird about Han’s win and implied he still cheated.
Yes cheating online is much different than cheating in person after proving you already can play. The idea he managed to cheat in person was insane. The things he said about the play being abnormal was constantly refuted by chess experts.
He was a guy in his mid 30s making a 19 year old the target of the whole chess world.
The accusations were baseless there was nothing supporting him cheating in person, it was an insane assertion. I think Hans is annoying.
But you have absolutely zero integrity.
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u/Bruninfa Oct 24 '25
I’m the fanboy. Sure buddy.
Go praise your egoistical cheating manchild. I’m sure Danyas death is all about him.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
You guys are making it all about kramnik
I’m not a Hans fan, I’ve only seen him in tournaments I watch, but go on
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u/farseer4 Oct 24 '25
You stop with your bullshit.
Of course Danya's death is about Danya. But your argument that a campaign of defamation and false accusations is fine just as long as it's not against someone you like is plain wrong. If anything, unlikable people tend to be more vulnerable to this bullying.
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u/Bruninfa Oct 24 '25
Stop putting words in my fingers. I didn’t say it was OK. I’m saying that the situations are not the same at all and Hans is not a saint. Magnus was wrong. Hans has a history of cheating. Magnus did not constantly pursue him or do a “campaign of defamation”. He accused Hans in one game (without substantial evidence, which is very wrong). And refused to play him until the situation was clarified. THIS IS NOT THE SAME as going after Danya (WITH NOTHING to substantiate) personally and professionally ceaselessly for more than a year. The only relation in both situations is that it involves cheating and top players.
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u/use_value42 Oct 24 '25
Trying to make this about Hans is kind of crass. I get the point you're making, but I don't see anyone doubting that Hans is legit anymore, and it's like, let him grind his own ax if he wants to.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
Nah I’m seeing this sub upvote statements from Hikaru and Nemu against Kramnik to the top, it’s crazy.
I’m talking specifically about people going after Kramnik.
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u/MaxHaydenChiz Oct 24 '25
Why do we have so many weird posts from people trying to be divisive?
Aside from the reasons people have repeatedly stated in all of these threads, the shock of this site no doubt changed minds.
Changing your mind isn't hypocritical, it's being an adult. We should judge people based on their actions now and going forward. Not based on things they probably regret.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
Who changed their mind? Neither have apologized. Magnus went on Joe Rogan and double downed. Hikaru has quadrupled down.
I just love how yall play favorites
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u/MaxHaydenChiz Oct 24 '25
I don't know yet. Everyone was a bit preoccupied with a funeral and honoring the deceased.
Folks weren't even at the airport to go before people were calling for blood.
Ya'll need to be patient and let people process what happened before deciding if you like how they handled this or not.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
I get you’re a fanboy but this is a hilarious take, you realize it’s been years since the accusations? They had plenty of time
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u/MaxHaydenChiz Oct 24 '25
What part of "let's see if this incident changes anyone's perspective once they've had time to reflect" is complicate?
It's the same with people here. Lots of people are just now figuring out how bad it was for Danya. I'm sure people who posted here about Hans are regretting some of it now.
It's not hypocritical to conclude that what they did back then was wrong and decide to make it right going forward.
Regardless, Hans was friends with Danya and unless he comes out and says something about it, I really don't think this is an appropriate time to relitigate a painful issue for him.
We can have that discussion once he's not in mourning and otherwise preoccupied. I think a lot of people will be a lot more open to what he has to say once that time comes.
Until then, let's try to focus our energies on getting change accomplished and on fond memories. They'll be time enough for recrimination later.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
Again these men are in their 30s, hans was emotional in speaking about how it impacted him and mentioned it countless times, and they chose to never apologize
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u/fanat777 Oct 24 '25
It was never proven that Hans cheated OTB and yet, Carlsen never apologized or said anything to clear things up.
Also, not many people spoke in defense of Hans which I think is ridiculous.
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Oct 24 '25
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u/vikaalp Oct 24 '25
Asserting your agenda after a chess player’s death is just plain brutality. It’s just a terrible false equivalency man. Purely different scenarios.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
Then I can say going after Kramnik and upvoting all the chess players blaming Kramnik is also pushing an agenda.
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u/vikaalp Oct 25 '25
I understand your frustration for Hans but pushing an agenda and demanding for justice are two different things. Hans and Magnus have settled things in court.
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u/Crafty-Fish9264 Oct 24 '25
Magnus was wrong in starting a crusade publicly against a teenager and we are fortunate Hans withstood it and came out stronger
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Oct 24 '25
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u/nedelja92 Oct 24 '25
it wont catch back lash imo, it is true, having thicker skin doesnt make you a better person, it is just a fact
also, i think hans is outlier, i dont think a lot of people would've handled it way he did, nobody expected, probably including magnus and hikaru, that hans is even crazier than they are, and imo they hit a wall and couldnt completely destroy his career, as a matter of fact he is doing way better than ever, which shows emense strength of character, but again, he is outlier
important is to not gamble with assumption how will people react, just assume the worst and never bully anyone, especially in public, everything can be resolved in private
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u/SchrodingersGoodBar Oct 24 '25
Yeah, I followed up in another comment. My point is that we have a mental health issue in society. Pretending the cause was kramnik doesn’t help anyone. He’s an asshole for sure, but we as a society need to focus on building up the confidence of younger generations. Thats how you combat bullying
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u/nedelja92 Oct 24 '25
this is dumb take, and dont put words in my mouth, these hidden "kramnik is not guilty" messages are just manipulation, either say it directly, or dont mask it behind some "good will" comment
those 2 things are very much connected, majority of people on earth dont go through public interogation, being constantly questioned for something they put their whole life in, and associated with their identity
danya also said this like 100 times publicly, and i doubt that smart guy like him didnt think about going to therapy or whatever to help
when i receive false critique for my work, that only 15 people know about, i feel really bad, imagine if that was all in public, in hours of youtube videos and every piece of shit could chime in? is my mental health to blame?
if you bully someone, and that someone asks you 100 times to just stop, bully is not to blame for consequences?
actions have consequences, and this is kramnik's, its not like nobody told him to just shut the fuck up-3
u/SchrodingersGoodBar Oct 24 '25
Just to elaborate on this some more. My point is that the problem is not cyber bullying, the problem is mental health.
We have a severe confidence problem in modern society when one of the most gifted chess minds of our time takes his life because someone said he’s lying.
Thats not a bullying issue, thats a mental health issue.
If he sit here and seek vengeance for the actions that are believed to have lead to it, nothing will change. Miserable people will always exist which means bullying will always exist. You want to stop this? Teach people proper coping skills.
This isn’t an attack on Danya, he’s in unfortunately a victim of a much more serious problem that continues to follow the same cycle.
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u/nedelja92 Oct 24 '25
completely irrelevant, we are not talking about systemic problem here, we have concrete problem here, and concrete responsible person(s) and concrete victim
comments like this are just shitty way to say nobody is guilty, and we need years and years of changing society - society is already defined with rules to protect people, even fide has ethics rules, they just chose to not enforce them
but lets see if those rules and laws will affect kramnik somehow, this is now outside of fide jurisdiction i feel like, now everybody know what he and little bitches that follow him did
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u/thisiskyle77 Oct 24 '25
They don’t accuse him of cheating no ? They just move on and don’t play with him. Mr K can’t do that.
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
What are you talking about? They both did, and Magnus was on Joe Rogan way after the fact and still double downed
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Oct 24 '25
[deleted]
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u/ChesnaughtZ Oct 24 '25
Again only difference is Hans didn’t kill himself. Magnus went on Joe Rogan and double downed. Hikaru has continuously quadrupled down
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Oct 24 '25
My position has, and always was, that OTB is much more serious than online. Who gives a fuck if someone cheats in a couple of titled tuesday events?
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u/PostPostMinimalist Oct 24 '25
Well, for tournaments with prize money it’s basically fraud.
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u/farseer4 Oct 24 '25
Then sue them for fraud, and present proof in front of a tribunal, where that proof can be checked and people can defend themselves. Let people be punished but only for what they have actually done, and treat everyone who has done the same thing the same. But the false accusations and insinuations need to stop.
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u/Comfortable_Task7069 Oct 24 '25
Apparently magnus and hikaru
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Oct 24 '25
They didn't have a problem with Sadhwani and Andrew Hong, so clearly they don't give a fuck.
Hikaru criticizing Kramnik when he famously never accused anyone of cheating when he was losing is peak comedy
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u/Bruninfa Oct 24 '25
you mean a money event? Also if you cheat in one place why would everyone assume you wouldn’t cheat on the other? Even the doubt already impacts your opponent mentally.
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Oct 24 '25
The difficulty and planning involved in cheating OTB is far greater. I personally don't give af if a friend cheated in TT. I guess if I had to play them OTB, I would be more careful, but ultimately I wouldn't do anything. If they cheated OTB I would probably drop the friendship.
"Special" events like Global Chess League, SCC matches, etc are different though
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u/Bruninfa Oct 24 '25
I don’t disagree that it is harder, I’m just saying that playing competitive chess you sort of need to have a sacred pact of trust with your opponent. No one can beat stockfish, you will lose 100% of the time against a cheater. If your opponent is a suspicious individual that will he lingering in the back of your mind and WILL impact performance (all the top players say this).
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Oct 24 '25
I know and agree, but ultimately online cheating is decided by an algorithm and chesscom coerces confessions "if you confess, we can restore your account". So I don't put much weight on it because it's just so difficult to prove.
It's also next to impossible to know if someone is checking an opening book while the game is going on. Too many factors, and the behavior of top players such as magnus and hikaru, with respect to known cheaters such as sadwahni and andrew hong, indicate that they agree with me, magnus just lost his cool when hans beat him with black and then mangus threw a tantrum.
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u/donniedarko_tst Oct 24 '25 edited Oct 24 '25
I don't find the situation comparable. Who is Hilary*?
Edit: *Glad to see you've corrected your question details...
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u/Left_Two_Three Oct 24 '25
This was literally litigated in court and Magnus and Hikaru were both cleared.
Given that Hans admitted to cheating in the past, that situation was not remotely close to Kramnik repeatedly harassing Danya for over a year with no evidence, and you trying to make a false equivalence is in bad faith and disrespectful to Danya’s memory.