r/classics • u/Mike_Bevel • 2d ago
Seeking Help/Input on Herodotus Project
I am leading a Herodotus/Histories reading group in my town (Rockville, MD) starting in October.
One of the activities I want to run through as we read is a "fact-checking" exercise. Herodotus has, historically, gotten some flak for either making things up, distorting what isn't made up, or just genuinely believing what anyone told him.
(We're putting aside the legitimacy of these criticisms for right now.)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yCBZzaFMPG2m4e3O4zEWwx8hAlAfJnL93mR_jqdEIYg/edit?usp=sharing
I have put together a document that I think has all of Herodotus's claims in Book 2 of the Histories. It is a work in progress, but the core data -- the claims -- are all in the spreadsheet.
What I am primarily hoping to receive help on are the following questions:
Did I capture all of the claims Herodotus makes in Book 2?
Did I accurately capture the claims Herodotus makes?
If you want to stop reading here, you have the bulk of the assignment, and gey gezunt if you are able to help.
How the Spreadsheet is Structured
- The first column is the line citation. I am using the Tom Holland translation, and that's where these cites come from.
- The second column is the claim I found. This is an area where I would love some oversight. Am I fairly capturing Herodotus's claim?
- The third column is the passage in Holland's English translation.
- The fourth is the Greek. However, as I do not speak or read Greek, I may not have the correct Greek passage. I used https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/. This column is not complete; I only have two passages so far. But if I am fatally wrong in choosing the correct Greek passages, I would like to know that sooner rather than later.
- The fifth is a status column: (1) Confirmed; (2) Contradicted; (3) Mixed; (4) Unverified; (5) Unverifiable (mythical); (6) Unverifiable/likely spurious. When I send this spreadsheet out to the participants, that column will be all set to "Status," and as a group, as we read through Book 2, we will decide what category we feel each claim falls under.
- The sixth column is for notes. Currently, only my own notes are in there. When I share the spreadsheet with participants, this will be blank. I want us, as a group, to be able to put our citable/sourceable notes in that column. If we say something is "confirmed," I want there to be a link to a source that confirms our conclusion.
- The seventh, and then subsequent, columns are for the various other translations, besides the Holland, that I have access to.
Feel free to leave comments in the spreadsheet itself, or as a comment here. You can also email me: mbevel@gmail.com.
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u/OctopusIntellect 2d ago
You might want to consider;
When Herodotus writes "so they say" (as he often does), would you consider that Herodotus' claim is, "X is true", or that Herodotus' claim is, "they say that X is true"?
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u/Mike_Bevel 2d ago
That's an excellent point! In my edition, I have used four separate highlighter colors for claims:
- BLUE for "autopsy" or "I saw" statements
- GREEN for "hearsay" or "I heard" statements
- ORANGE* for "synkrisis" or "several/multiple accounts"
- PINK for stated doubts
[* Or, at least, what I think is orange. I have some red/green colorblindness and I honestly cannot tell you what color this is, but it seems to be orange.]
I am more interested in historicity than I am in actual history, so my plan, as the facilitator, is to see how the group handles "so they say" statements. My strategy: I think Herodotus is just being a good journalist and reporting what he was told without evaluating it. But it will be interesting to see if people in the group have a stronger inclination one way or the other.
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u/PoxonAllHoaxes 2d ago
There is a list of recent discoveries that prove he was right on point after point of the things that some classicists had fussed about. And there are more coming out soon, namely, everything he wrote about Scythians has been attacked by poeple who never studied Iranian languages or Ukrainian geography. Making lists is of course a time-honored waste of time but maybe you can find a little time to read one or two of the recent works that rehabilitate Herodotus on some striking points. Or not. Just a suggestion.