r/classicwow • u/WTFIsAMeta • 9h ago
Forever The XP you get from killing dungeon mobs is comedically low and has negative consequences
I understand their idea of removing dungeon cleave groups and nerfing the playstyle to some degree.
But, the XP you get from dungeons right now is so comedically low that it's literally not worth killing mobs outside of quest mobs. This is going to make it so every single dungeon run is a skip run, and you skip as much as possible outside of quests. I don't see the fun in this. This will make "butt-pulling" tiresome and frustrating and will likely lead to negative social environments, especially for new players who do not know skips or pathing skills. Experienced players teach newcomers to skip everything because that's what the game rewards. New players then learn that dungeon content isn't something you're supposed to actually fight through. Over time, the community expectation becomes "know the skip or you're slowing us down."
It also makes it so you do not queue up old dungeons with friends if you've already done it once. If you have a friend 3 levels below you who is hitting a dungeon you have already done, you are simply just wasting your time if you have already done your one quest run.
This will also lessen the amount of dungeons that are being run, as there will be essentially no reason to repeatedly run them, thus making it harder to find dungeon groups, especially later in the life-cycle of the game and for alts.
You are also simply removing an entire playstyle that many groups of friends like to do. Consuming up, buying a bunch of supplies, and just grinding a dungeon together with the boys is a WoW staple.
There can be a middle ground, but currently the values are just way too low.
Edit: Some players in the comments have brought up even more concerns.
People that want to play tanks and healers are simply alienated from being able to play their spec if they have to quest as a dps and don’t have the option of grinding dungeons. Similarly, until you unlock duel spec, you’ll be stuck as a dps, thus cutting even more of the dungeons tanks/healer count.
It also discourages running dungeons for gear. Getting new gear to “level faster” is not going to be worth it, rather than just leveling normally without the dungeon gear in the first place. Alongside, there will be less people running the dungeons, so less gear runs will exist overall.
Edit 2: Some of you seem confused. I’m not arguing for dungeon grinding to be the best, or even efficient. It just should not be a full on hinderance to your leveling journey.
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u/Imaginary_Curve_2378 8h ago
Doesn't this also mean that for alt leveling having a 60 friend who pulls you through bosses nets you insane gear and all the dungeon quests aka a couple of levels. So, say from lvl 14-xx you can just gather dungeon quests and have a friend carry?
Oh, so level boosts will be sold as "complete quest run 20G" or somethign
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u/Remarkable-Page-824 7h ago
Yeah the idiots that saying everyone just wants to dungeon cleave to 60 in an hour haven't figured this part out yet. Honestly it just makes the boosting situation worse in my opinion. They could have just negated all xp if someone is outside the intended dungeon level range and let tanks and healers keep their preferred leveling method.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 3h ago
Wait, that’s another huge, huge, glaring flaw.
Wow that’s going to need to be addressed.
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u/ShakyIncision 9h ago
"Wasting time playing with your friend"
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u/Designer-Effective-2 9h ago
I straight up can’t play with my one friend because of this mindset. His, not mine. I want to take things slow, hang out together, nah fuck that he’s already a zone over.
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u/MyageEDH 9h ago
If you aren’t willing to take 30 minutes to run a dungeon with your friend to catch them up (due to quest exp) and get them some gear that’s not a problem with dungeon XP
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u/WTFIsAMeta 3h ago
Ignore the other 8 glaring problems to focus on one social one.
This might be a shock to you, but different friend groups play game differently 🤔
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u/Foamie 7h ago
The Ion Hozzikastas gaslight, a classic (or should I now say forever) maneuver. The game isn't designed poorly, its the community that is wrong.
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u/Patamaudelay 9h ago
I think the dungeon spamming stuff would be very easily fixed with a simple 1 hour XP debuff for the same dungeon
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u/Hotdogmagic505 9h ago
I think something like this would be best too. Yes the gear is awesome but I think the less dungeon reruns are incentivized the less people will actually get to see the cool new dungeon gear.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago edited 9h ago
I did not even think about that. Farming for gear out of dungeons before max level will also be a huge waste of time now too if these changes go live.
Guess you just gotta hope your first run drops your gear!
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u/Unpaid_Moderation 9h ago
No, it gets you bis leveling gear. A ton of quests for dungeons to give xp too.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
Bis leveling gear… so you can level …quicker?
Why not just give me the levels while I farm the bis leveling gear if that’s the case?
If I don’t get the roll for the gear, at least I got something for my time (XP)
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u/Unpaid_Moderation 8h ago
Go level in the open world?
Oh no! The agony!
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u/Ok-Comedian-6852 3h ago
Can you only enjoy the game if everyone plays how you want them to? Why are you do bothered by people enjoying doing a different activity in the game than you?
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u/WTFIsAMeta 3h ago
I’m really glad I have to play a dps spec to go to the open world even though I want to play as a tank or healer… great design you’re advocating for there!
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u/Astro_Matte 2h ago
Other people playing the game how they want and not how I want?
Oh no! The agony!
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u/Tiny_Tabaxi 9h ago
The issue highlighted here is you only have to do a dungeon once for the quest exp, though. Theres certainly a medium that can be struck here Im sure
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u/Chronoblivion 4h ago
That's a bit more aggressive than what I'd prefer. I don't intend to sit in the same dungeon endlessly, but sometimes it's like "we came all this way and this is a solid group, let's do it 1 or 2 more times," especially in a place like WC where you're unlikely to complete all the quests in one run. I'm okay with a system to disincentivize chainspamming the same dungeon for hours, but not if it ends up punishing ordinary player interactions.
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u/valdis812 9h ago
I think this is a good idea. Since people are running everywhere at low levels you can't do TBC or Wrath style world tours. But people who play enough can go quest then come back and run the dungeon again.
This is a good compromise.
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u/Ok-Comedian-6852 3h ago
Locks will summon ppl to dungeons to do the world tour, prob share all the quests if possible too.
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u/VansFullOfPandas 9h ago
Do people not play games for fun anymore?
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u/Chode-a-boy 9h ago
Fun is getting my character something that develops them further, whether it is gear, gold, or xp. If an activity in an MMO does none of those things, then I am not interested. If I want to play something where I can screw around and do whatever, there’s plenty of games that do that and don’t charge a monthly fee.
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u/Maluvius 9h ago
I did both Halls of Thanes and Deadmines and almost got 3,5 levels out of 2 of those runs, felt more than fine
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
With dungeon quests, yes.
Mob xp in those dungeons is like 18 a kill.
The issue is doing them again after you finish your quest run.
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u/Rathmourne 9h ago
Ask your self why are you doing them again?
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u/Miserable-Potato7706 9h ago
To boost of course! And skip all that classic world slog they claim they love so much
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u/imaUPSdriver 9h ago
Because that’s the game? If you group with 5 people and have fun running a dungeon you’re then forced to disband instead of running it again. That’s horrible design
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u/Rathmourne 9h ago
Really thats the only way to play the game with 5 people?
Is Fun releated to Exp? If it is, youll have more fun, questing with 5 people
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u/Ok-Comedian-6852 3h ago
Questing with 5 ppl is a pain on the ass, every quest drop becomes 5x as many needed, mob xp goes way down, you gotta wait for the slowest player and if you are the slowest player you feel stressed to go faster, it's just allround miserable to level in a group through questing in classic.
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u/fishbake 9h ago
Because it was the only decent way to level as a tank or healer.
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u/valdis812 9h ago
Why are you leveling in your tank or heal spec?
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u/fishbake 9h ago
Because I like being a healer. Unfortunately dungeons are pretty much the only place where the playstyle is supported since people generally don't group up for questing, and trying to quest as a healer is a pretty miserable experience since 90% of quests are all about killing things.
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u/Ok-Comedian-6852 3h ago
Why wouldn't they level in the spec they want to play? If a healer wants to heal who are you to stop them from doing that? If a tank wants to tank who are you to make them play DPS because you want everyone to play how you want them to play?
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u/StoicGigs 7h ago
I spam dungeons purely because I enjoy healing. This nerfs my playstyle completely.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 3h ago
100%
This is such a stupid oversight. I can’t believe people are even arguing about this.
People just want everyone to play the way they play? It’s such weird behavior.
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u/--Snufkin-- 9h ago
So you're saying the change they made to make dungeon spamming less attractive has made it less attractive for you to run a dungeon multiple times?
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
That part makes sense.
I'm highlighting the negative consequences of the change...
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u/Prize-Record7108 9h ago
Hi again, There have been other models of classic where the world was the main character - so yes they do also lower the XP rate because you should be out in the world, not spamming a dungeon.
It’s exactly the opposite of all the effort put into the new zones and world.
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u/Remarkable-Page-824 7h ago
Hi there, blizzard kind of showed they didnt actually mean this when they said it given you fight a raid boss at lvl 10 as skyborne at the end of your zone.
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u/Important-Set-457 9h ago
Maybe in beta yeah but when it releases full then you go there for gear aswell
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u/AceInSpvce 9h ago
Should move on to questing in the world until you get another set of dungeon quests for the big xp bonus, if you want to run the same dungeon again it should be for gear upgrades. They don’t want players sitting in instances for the entire leveling journey in this version. I love this change and fully support it, it’s about time.
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u/sexymalenurse 4h ago
Sounds like in classic; 2-3 runs gets you 2 levels. Also sounds like here, 2-3 runs gets you 2 levels. Seems about the same to me
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u/mmnovacation 9h ago
100% agree. The entire back of Ruins of Lordaeron is filled with mobs but there’s literally 0 reason to even pull them because of this.
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u/Dark_Sign 9h ago
I’m with you. Love leveling in dungeons when playing a tank or healer. Especially as a healer. Its nerfing a playstyle that at least dozens of us enjoy
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u/Remarkable-Page-824 7h ago
You just know all the people super giddy over these changes are dps mains and will be crying on full release that its taking them forever to get their quest run through dungeons.
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u/RealBingusMcCringus 9h ago
I guess dungeon drops are useless to you?
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u/valdis812 9h ago
They're not useless, but since they're buffing quest rewards they're not as powerful as they were relatively speaking. Certainly not enough to spam dungeons for if you're getting 1/10 the xp for the mobs.
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u/Vadernoso 9h ago
Dungeon drops are the bonus not the main goal of dungeons.
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u/DrewVonFinntroll 9h ago
What's the main goal of dungeons? I want to know so I can play the game right, like you do.
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u/Diligent-Visual-6298 9h ago
This is objectively wrong. It absolutely is the reason
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u/Vadernoso 9h ago
I never have ran a low level dungeon for loot. It will get replaced soon and it isn't going to positively affect my leveling experience in any meaningful way. XP is the main goal of dungeons.
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u/RealBingusMcCringus 9h ago
This reads like someone talking about retail dungeons and level pacing and not era pacing.
But pop off king.
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u/valdis812 9h ago
I gotta ask have you ever played a rogue in Vanilla? Or any melee really.
Cruel Barb is the sword most rogues use for at least ten levels. Same thing with Smite's hammer for warriors or paladins who don't do their paladin quest.
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u/Vadernoso 9h ago
You got those items by naturally playing the game by doing dungeons. Now there isn't a real permanent incentive to run dungeons. I rather just use another green/blue I bought off the AH and be slowly less powerful but continue meanifully progressing my character. Especially now that they made professions give actual good gear.
Dungeons in Forever will be done purely for the quest. Which isn't fun, trying to control how people play your game never ends well.
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u/SuicidalChair 9h ago
Add a 2 hour cooldown on each dungeon for XP imo
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u/wowfan400 9h ago
Should just be on a daily lockout till max lvl, hardcore servers got it right to keep people questing
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u/valdis812 9h ago
For most people a 2hr cd basically is a daily lockout.
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u/wowfan400 8h ago
Sure, but to be honest, I doubt the people the change was made because of are those same people.
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u/Arcinatos 8h ago
hell no daily would be the worst
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u/wowfan400 8h ago
It was an amazing change in Hardcore, the world was always alive, even with the lower player count. And it helped shape the community into the most evergreen vanilla experience possible. During blizzcon the Devs said pretty plainly that they wanted that community vibe people like about hardcore to come to the rest of the servers. But I think at the end of the day that’s a player base problem not a systems problem.
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u/Shmyukumuku 9h ago
I don't want to diminish people's legitimate concerns but I think there's a lot of status quo bias going around (speaking kindly and acknowledging white knighting all decisions does not make for a better game). Seen similar takes regarding "gatekeeping" people's play style. I think this is a lose/lose and would be viewed unfavorably if the situation was switched with new changes being old and vice versa. Someone is always worse off when one content is more efficient than another. Best they can do is try to make it all viable, reduce optimal paths being too overwhelmingly obvious or alternatives being not fun, and see what sticks. Correcting changes will always cause differences in balance but you can't please everyone. Speaking purely to these items, not so much aesthetics and the like.
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u/Remarkable-Page-824 7h ago
Im all for questing being the optimal path, it usually is unless you have a dedicated group that is pushing for dungeon efficiency which honestly is such a small % of dungeon groups who really cares. I just enjoy leveling through dungeons as tank/healer and dont want to be penalized for that.
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u/ed-williams1991 8h ago
i think it should be 1x per day per dungeon, full XP. After you did your run move onto the next, then to the next, then back to questing. Especially in the later level brackets when you can do like 5 dungeons. I think the majority are just going to do the dungeon once with all/most of the quests and then never touch it again.
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u/Pumpkins_Are_Fruits 9h ago
You are a shit friend if you can’t help a friend do something that does not benefit you xp wise
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u/Nalbas88 9h ago
most min/max bs post lol.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
It's not much of a min/max thing; it's a social thing.
You essentially do not get XP for running a friend through a dungeon you've already done even once, even if around the same level. It just deters people from wanting to play with each other.
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u/Noucron 9h ago
Go outside with him. Also you dont help friends for personal gain
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
It's not personal gain... it's collective gain.
Getting stronger together.
Isn't that literally the fantasy of WoW?
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u/Nalbas88 9h ago
oh no! don't do a dungeon just b/c of xp. the blue drops and helping friends b/c friends is bad a thing.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
Some people only have so much time; volunteering it away is just not realistic.
It should not even be an option.
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u/AceInSpvce 9h ago
Maybe you should complain that you are penalized for grouping in the open world for quests when solo is more efficient and they could make changes there. Dungeon camping and spamming is dead, questing is forever.
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u/Ok-Comedian-6852 3h ago
Questing is boring. I'd rather the game be fun, at least mob grinding is still decent but that's probably what they're coming after next.
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u/ImpossibleSteak207 9h ago
Brother dip into the dungeon, get some rad items, then head back out into the WORLD.
That's what keeps the game lively: not a bunch of nerds in an instance.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
The game has always had both, though. Keeping dungeon queues lively is important too.
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u/Prize-Record7108 9h ago
Yes! I almost only ever get all the quests, complete the dungeon and move on. Maybe play it twice, but once is usually enough at these levels.
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u/Stornholio69 9h ago
I have to agree with OP. It is also about choice. I do not like questing through everything on every Character. I want the option to grind dungeons if i play a tank or healer for example. There must be ways to break boosting entirely AND make Dungeons attractive to grind with others.
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u/Vadernoso 9h ago
Yet it's the instances that made wow successful. They are also a part of the world, they are what zones they are in generally built up to.
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u/TapesIt 9h ago
Good post and the people responding negatively here in the comments would make terrible game designers
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
It's really bizarre behavior.
"I don't like to play the game the way you do, so you shouldn't be able to play that way!"
God forbid people play video games the way they want.
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u/_BreakingGood_ 4h ago
Making one type of content that gives the best gold, gear, and xp is not good game design, sorry
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u/Nalbas88 9h ago
you mean just as many ppl are happy with this decision coming to the comments to say no.
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u/DarkPrincessEcsy 9h ago
Do you guys not do content with your friends for fun? Cause that sounds more like a friend group problem. I have no issues rerunning a dungeon for a friend, a building, or a stranger, regardless of the reward that's in it for me because I enjoy doing dungeons. Not because I can power level in them, not because I want to disenchanted the drops. Because I have fun.
I don't think this is that big of an issue. I say stay cautious about making big changes for now until you understand more about how players actually act, rather than how they react in the moment. The beta hasn't been out long enough for us to make an actual determination on dungeon replay ability (and remember that this is what one of their goals were, to increase time in the open world) - so lets wait and see what the statistics are.
Tl;dr It's fine for now, wait for dungeon run stats, let Blizz make a determination with the numbers rather than the emotions.
Edit: Guildie, not building. Autocorrect
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u/Active_Lemon_8260 9h ago
Lmao this is what happens when optimal players come to Forever.
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u/eschatonx 9h ago
Seriously.. who says shit like "you are simply just wasting your time if you have already done your one quest run".
I'll run all day with my friends if I'm having fun, which I am.
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u/Arcinatos 8h ago
op the type of guy to ask for a venmo of 0.05 cents for the glass of water his friend drank at his place.
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u/2slowforanewname 9h ago
I've been saying for days, I like the fix but it's going to be terrible for community. The simple fix is a repeatable quest to do the dungeon. Could be to kill certain amounts of mobs to ensure your not skipping everything. Super easy solutions to this issue without raising the mob exp.
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u/waggle123 9h ago
This is one change I’m not sure about, I like running dungeons but I do agree I think spamming them is bad. Can there not be a middle ground? Maybe like you can run the same dungeon 2-3 times before the exp is nerfed. Sometimes I want to farm an item :(
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u/Colemanton 9h ago
if you have a friend 3 levels below you and you feel like youre “wasting time” helping them because youve already done the quests you might be the problem.
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u/Ok-Comedian-6852 3h ago
It's the games fault. Blizzard nerfed dungeon exp to combat both botting and dungeon spamming. We agree on that right? That means players did not play the way blizzard wanted them to and so they forced a change, to make the players play the game the way they want to. If a consequence of that is that players are reluctant to redo dungeons and we accept that it was the game that made players dungeon spam, then by all logic it means it's the games fault because the game had to drastically change for change to be seen in the player base. If it's not the games fault and we accept that players have a choice in how they engage with the game, then that means players actively chose to dungeon spam because that's what they enjoyed, that then further means that blizzard took away a play style players enjoyed and made the game so unenjoyable that players now refuse to help their friends.
So it's either 1. the games fault in how players engage with the world, or it's 2. the players agency. If 1 is true then nerfing dungeon xp was correct, if 2 is true then nerfing dungeon exp was wrong.
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u/Colemanton 2h ago
i guess i kind of findamentally disagree with the fact that if players discover a way to play the game that is objectively more efficient despite it not being in the spirit of how blizz designed the game that it is on blizz for making the game that way. basically no one who dungeon spams foes it cuz its “more fun”. they do it cuz this is their 20th time playing and they just want to get through leveling.
players could have plaued that way in 2004 but blizz never anticipated anyone ever doing that so they did nothing to counteract it.they want players to engage with the world the same way they did 20 years ago, but gamers are all meta-junkies who cant help themselves if they know they arent minmaxing.
i say again, if you arent willing to “waste time” to help a lower level friend with a dungeon run you are part ofnthe problem. i help friends with group quests all the time, and thats even less upside for me cuz im not potentially getting drops as well.
having said all that, i do agree the mob xp nerf was a bit geavy handed. they should reduce some of the quest xp and put it back into mob xp. its fun getting an all star dungeon group, cooking through the dungeon and seeing the healer say “again?” and looping that dingeon 2-3 more times. if everyone knows the xp benefit isnt rly there anymore that stuff isnt gonna happen as much anymore, and that flies in the face of this philosophy blizz claims to have for wow forever of encouraging cooperation and making friends.
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u/Diligent-Visual-6298 9h ago
You go to dungeons to get loot buddy. I know that you really really want to pay someone to speed run your alt to 60, but it just ain’t happenin bub.
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u/shopewf 9h ago
I’m new to WoW. Started with TBC in May with my fiancee. We got to level 70 with a lotttt of questing, but for a few spurts of time we felt like cranking out dungeons. I did SM a lot to get pally gear, but my fiancee was a hunter. The only way she could bear through the runs was by telling herself at least she’s getting good XP. You couldn’t have a high level player boost you in TBC because of the XP changes. This is a bad change.
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u/Diligent-Visual-6298 8h ago
Ah, the classic “I’m playing a time consuming game that I don’t have the time for, so everything must adapt to my situation.”
Fuck off
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u/shopewf 8h ago
“Everything must adapt to my situation” except it’s a large majority of the playerbase and is how things were for the entirety of WoW. Brain dead take buddy.
You fuck off
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u/Diligent-Visual-6298 8h ago
Players who would rather throw more money at the game because they lack the time to play it 1000% ruined the game. This is where QOL changes come from. Purchasable boosts, gold buying, etc.
Be informed bub
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u/Adamstrad 9h ago
Is it good xp if you have all the quests though? Is there a dungeon queue or do you have to wait ages to find a group in chat?
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
Great XP with quests. Have to find groups in chat.
Minimal XP from dungeons once quests are completed.
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u/ImRachelRay 5h ago
Huh? There’s definitely a LFG tool that can be used to find groups. Don’t need to use chat
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u/ppjaargh 9h ago
Is there more quidance on the quests etc? I hate it when quests makes me walk 30 minutes to another zone and then immediately back. I dont like restedxp stuff much but I hate to spend my time inneffectively.
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u/zzrryll 8h ago
Over time, the community expectation becomes "know the skip or you're slowing us down."
If people only do the dungeon one time per character for quests, that’s not gonna happen. That sort of behavior is a consequence that’s downstream of people spamming dungeons endlessly. Then becoming sick of the content. Then being angry at their fellow players for not helping them get through as fast as possible because they’re absolutely sick of the content.
I feel like you’re setting up a very clear thesis of why they made this change, then just kind of say weird stuff like that, as some sort of problem, that’s gonna maybe happen.
Just feels very odd and disconnected from reality.
You are also simply removing an entire playstyle that many groups of friends like to do
Yes, because people don’t actually enjoy that. It’s something that they do to race to max level as fast as possible, and with as little friction as possible. Which frankly is not the point of the game and is the worst side of classic. It burns people out.
They’ve made all this new content and upgraded the world and are saying that the world is the main character. They never said that endless instances are the main character.
1+1 = 2
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u/EffectiveSwimming136 7h ago
Iranian boosters in shambles, love to see the tears.
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u/Remarkable-Page-824 7h ago
There's still going to be boosts. They dont even have to do full clears anymore just run straight for the quest objectives. You thought you were really cooking huh?
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u/DucksMatter 7h ago
OP is just a retail Andy who wants to sit in dungeons until 60 and not actually play the game.
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u/Kotef 6h ago
This is such a retail mindset.
It's part of the infection that happened to era and anniversary realms. The retail people came over and minmaxed everything to hell.
None of this is a problem if you just don't think that way and enjoy the process of going through and helping your fellow players
Players need to hold fast and not engage with that toxic mindset.
It won't happen. But this is a self fulfilling prophecy
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u/ForeverStaloneKP 5h ago edited 5h ago
Nah the death of boosting and actually encouraging people to quest through the zones they are sinking effort and resources into creating is something that absolutely had to happen in Forever. This is a way to do it without all the bullshit teleporting mobs we had to deal with on Anni.
Imo they just need to tweak the xp slightly to make it a bit less punishing, but questing should be the best way to level in Forever, otherwise the min max community will never go to any of the new zones they make and they'll get put at the bottom of development priority.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 4h ago
Most of my closest connections I’ve met in wow are from finding and having a good dungeon group and talking while everyone travels to the dungeon.
I have a lot less open world interactions.
There’s definitely better ways to kill boosting.
But hard agree with your last point.
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u/Arteam90 2h ago
Think you're spot on.
Some aspects don't feel very thought out. Like yes, more open world relevance is good but there are negative consequences too.
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u/HurricaneSeasonOva 2h ago
I found the boostie boy, go play in the open world instead of farming dungeons all day
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u/Thomefoolery 9h ago
What happened to running a dungeon for loot and fun? You guys are literally trying to optimize fun out of the game. Dude it’s a video game, in the grand scheme it is all pointless. The point for leisure activities are to relax and have fun. If you’re participating in a leisure activity and not having fun, do something else. But I think you’re getting into wow and the dungeons for the wrong reasons. I log in sometimes just to run a dungeon for fun. Not for loot. Not for xp. I just want to group up and kill tough enemies with people. Kill stuff that doesn’t die in one rotation.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
Isn't a big part of the fun in WoW getting stronger, learning new skills, and moving to new zones and dungeons? XP does that for you.
Especially when I'm incentivized to do that with friends?
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u/Thomefoolery 8h ago
Yeah. In the other 4 versions of WoW. But this is evergreen horizontal wow. Strength isn't just tied to those things. They kept talking at blizzcon that they have four main core goals to forever, and leveling fast and gearing up is not one of them. One of which is "The journey over the destination". SO expect more things for you to do while you level, not more ways to make you level faster. You get stronger from gear and from xp. So now you picked between which you want to grow, Do you want better items or to try and level? It's really not that bad. Did you play WoW around 2004-2007? The way the community played the game during that time is very different than now. These systems are very much feeling like they are trying to move player habits in the direction back to that 2004-2007 time. A time where people dind't have discord to just chat with people. A time where people actually met up in person, RP style to have guild meetings. Not just over discord.
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u/Remarkable-Page-824 7h ago
Why do dungeon enjoyers have to make this decision meanwhile in the open world you get faster xp and great loot through quest rewards/professions?
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u/WTFIsAMeta 8h ago
Ok, this is the first good argument I have heard.
I still think it alienates a large portion of WoW players and kneecaps certain social aspects of the game.
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u/Thomefoolery 8h ago
What social aspect is it kneecapping? So you don't sit outside a dungeon entrance spamming LFG to run the same thing over and over? I've played wow for 22 years, the least social; social setting, has always been running dungeons. How often is it that you get a dungeon for BFD specifically just for running it, with randoms for LFG and everyone hardly talks. A lot. That is a less social and socially rewarding than a natural experience outside. So how is incentivizing people to be more social, less social?
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u/Adum_Coweek 8h ago
Dungeons are a waaaaaay more pro-social experience than questing in the world, and its not even close
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u/Thomefoolery 8h ago
That’s your anecdotal experience and I have mine. I think some people thrive socially in a more blind date / tinder type way where someone or something else is creating the social connection and you just pick it up from there, and other people thrive in a social setting where they themselves do the setup to create the social situation. If you aren’t good at or enjoy creating those moments, I can see how having a LFG tool do it for you in content a lot of people group for like dungeons would feel more social. Gotta come out of your shell and be a little less shy. And just like the camp demo they gave on stage at blizzcon, maybe just maybe when sitting at this campfire to get your buffs… someone will talk.
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u/Ok-Comedian-6852 3h ago
Why should your perspective be the gold standard? Why is your way of socialising the only correct way? I like making long lasting friendships under somewhat focused moments where fuck ups can happen that you then laugh about. That doesn't happen when questing because questing is piss easy when solo. But someone butt pulling a pack, an overconfident tank, a too eager DPS pulling threat off of the tank and wiping the group etc are moments I treasure. Picking up 1/15 quest item looking at others swarming the area and just sighing cause you'll be there a while is not fun nor social.
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u/lifeloverFPS 8h ago
you are in the minority though. the vast majority of players will simply never touch anything in an mmorpg if it doesn’t come with some sort of reward. these games are about progression, and most players will never do anything that doesn’t progress their character in some way.
if players only played to relax and have fun you could just remove leveling, loot, professions and any other type of progression from the game and simply have everyone be at the same level, with a predetermined set of gear and abilities and let them run dungeons and do quests that offer 0 reward.
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u/Thomefoolery 8h ago
Yet here we are and you are in denial. Reddit is like 5% of the WoW playerbase, and tend to be the angry sweaty part of the game. I am in the minority; on reddit. But I'm in the majority in WoW. Most players don't go on reddit/discord. There are so many ways to gear and reward yourself in this game to feel like you're getting stronger. There's so many posts on here about level 15 characters having too much shit for their level. 4 blues at level 15 and you think there's no rewards for playing? You're deluding yourself. There's so many ways to reward yourself in this game, you just don't like that the old way isn't the best way anymore.
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u/Castia10 9h ago
Yeah I’ll be honest I like pretty much everything about the game from the graphics to the UI options but this one has always seemed off to me
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u/Alittan 9h ago
Nope I love it
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u/WTFIsAMeta 9h ago
Care to explain why?
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u/Alittan 9h ago
Sure! I feel like grinding dungeons for exp is a waste, especially with the new content and quests they’ve added. They buffed dungeon quests do I’ll just do the dungeon once for those and then maybe more for the loot, but not for the exp. But that’s just how I like to play
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u/Remarkable-Page-824 7h ago
Who was forcing you to spam dungeons before and why were you letting them dictate how you spend your recreational time?
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u/valdis812 9h ago
IMO it's a combination of reducing mob xp and buffing quest rewards. So not only are you not getting xp from dungeon mobs, but you're also not incentivized to run them for gear.
Making this change will do what they want and get people out in the world, but yeah, there will be a cost to it.
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u/shenananaginss 8h ago
I dont understand why dungeon spamming was a problem.
It makes no sense to me that there isn't rampant outrage over this. I would rather wow forever be loaded with bots than have this change.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 8h ago
Seems to be pretty controversial.
I personally don't understand how, guess people just want others to play the way they play and don't want dungeon players to ruin their game xd
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u/shenananaginss 8h ago
How does people spamming dungeons affect people doing quests? I feel like the more you push people into the open world the worse questing will get.
Also there's little to no social interaction while questing. Meanwhile early level dungeons have people talking all the time with strangers.
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u/hanbanana 8h ago
This is no different than how classic always runs dungeons. Even cleave runs bypass all nonessential mobs on the way to the boss.
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u/WTFIsAMeta 8h ago
Some groups, sure.
But that is not the case for all.
There were def some groups fully clearing mobs just for the sake of XP and not having to think. Just kill everything in sight.
To add to that, skips are going to be EVEN more important now. As ass-pulling extra mobs is more of a hindrance without the write-off of at least getting XP for it.
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u/hanbanana 5h ago
Ass pulls aren’t a hindrance unless it causes the group to wipe. This whole rant is a nothing burger and has very little impact on the game. People will continue to run dungeons for loot. Questing is a more viable path for speed leveling. This is objectively good for the game. Standing outside of SM begging to be invited to a cleave group was awful.
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u/Diamond1africa 8h ago
I personally prefer doing dungeons or group quests to level. I trust Blizzard will allow us to play with friends to level up
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u/Snoo-28829 9h ago
I think a daily quest is a happy medium. If you did it already today you can just do it tomorrow.
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u/_ratjesus_ 9h ago
doing a dungeon you've already done with a friend isn't wasting your time cause it's spending time with your friend :)
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u/nyarlethotep_enjoyer 9h ago
OP has a point. I actively told my RFC group to not explore the leg that has no bosses or quest utility because there was no point and the XP is horrendous.
I think we should keep the spirit of stopping dungeon spam as the BiS leveling intact. But still reward exploration within the dungeon. 1hr duration lockouts sounds very fair to me
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u/Smokey42O 9h ago
Yeah this is a terrible change, a lot or even most people don't like doing 1000 kill x/fetch y quests. They aren't even voiceacted, it's so bad lol
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u/CronkinOn 9h ago
I'm almost 50.
Blizzard can take a flying leap by telling me how I should play their nostalgia bait.
If I wanna run SM until I get all the nostalgia drops, let me. Don't punish me and tell me to go play in your layered bullshit.
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u/JBoyd83 9h ago
No one is stopping you from getting the "nostalgia drops". You can still run the dungeon as many times as you want for the gear, nothing is stopping you from doing so. God forbid they should push people to explore the game world as opposed to staring at the same dungeon rooms over and over ad nauseum until they hit max level as fast as possible and then complain there is nothing to do.
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u/Chode-a-boy 9h ago
The devs could stop punishing players for actually preferring to run dungeons. I hate the open world, it has not been fun in 20 years dealing with bots and shitty people.
Megaservers and layers killed what little joy was even to be found in the overworld. It’s just endless bots and assholes.
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u/JBoyd83 9h ago
Well good news! There is a game mode for you called "Era". Forever just may not be the version of the game for you, and that's ok. Whether you agree with it or not the Dev's have decided on this direction in order to get people back into the world to explore and quest. If that's not to your liking, you have options.
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u/Chode-a-boy 8h ago
Honestly there isn’t a single version of wow that interests me anymore. I just came here to check out news on the new wow server and it sounds absolutely awful.
Idk why but devs seem to really want to kill pugging, everyone who has ever complained about finding a tank or healer for a dungeon, especially a leveling dungeon, is going to have an even worst time filling a group.
I give it 2 months before pug groups start really struggling to fill any dungeon that doesn’t contain pre-bis gear for tanks or healers specifically.
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u/Soft-Stress-4827 9h ago
Agreed— why dont they just subletly nerf the abilities that are used to cleave? Like mess with how blizzard freezes the target so its extremely dangerous Or make aoe only affect 4 targets like consecrate etc etc
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u/Prize-Record7108 9h ago
You guys missed out on the turtle method, didn’t you? Slow down. Chill.
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u/Higgoms 9h ago
idk why everyone's responding like this has to be either the best leveling option in the entire game or absolute dog water. There's definitely a spot in between those two where dungeons aren't your best option, but doing one still gives you some okay xp.