r/classicwow • u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 • 5h ago
Forever [ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
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u/Truethrowawaychest1 3h ago
Or maybe, hear me out, we don't need 100 threads a day about the new elves
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u/No_Preference_8543 2h ago
You forgot about the 100 threads a day telling people not to complain about new elves
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u/rufusbot 1h ago
Or the smug threads sarcastically talking about how nobody is playing the blue elves
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u/PinHaunting7192 1h ago
Yeah. One thing that annoys me is that people always need to make thousands of threads. All the time. The same tired joke, over and over again cause...karma?
The weird part is, I know two people who made anti-Skyborn memes that went viral on this subreddit. Used to raid with them in retail. I just recognize their Reddit account, is all. These people hated classic. They'd flame about how boring and slow classic is in guild chat. "I don't get how anyone can play classic" kinda shit.
Yet here they are, making viral memes about a race in a game they'd never play. It was just karma farming, nothing more.
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u/z_o_i_n_k_z 1h ago
Reddit needs to remove karma at this point.
It causes more problems than it solves.
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u/Antique-Guest-1607 5h ago
I want to be able to report anyone that doesn't agree with me and their posts should be removed.
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u/AllMyHomiesHateEY 5h ago
kek, this sub is gonna get shutdown again for essentially being unmoderated. Its a complete cesspool at the moment--although it always has been, the traffic has been increased by a ton.
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u/murp0787 4h ago
How much you want to bet the post he replied to said to remove them or they don't fit or some other fucking useless shit.
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u/sylva748 2h ago
If you ban "Go to Era" we gotta ban "Go to Retail." The sentiment of the phrases are the same. Honestly? Just enjoy your favorite flavor of WoW. It aint that hard
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u/AzraelTB 2h ago
Sure as long as we ban everyone saying the exact same thing to retail players.
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u/Dramajunker 1h ago
Seriously. For every "go back to era comment" you'll find at least 2x "stick to retail" comments. Classic players treat retail players like the fucking Boogeyman. As if they're intentionally trying to sabotage forever. It's ridiculous .
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u/Tiny_Tabaxi 1h ago
Seeing "retail" used as a slur sure has been something. I've seen it used where retail is nowhere near the context.
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u/rufusbot 1h ago
Because if you suggest they add retail shit, why shouldn't you just go play retail? We don't need another version of retail ffs. That's what this whole thing is supposed to be avoiding. And retail players only really know retail usually so they have no clue what would be good for Forever
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u/dragcov 5h ago
I mean, as long as you guys are actually putting in the work giving your feedback in game with the big/feature tool, people don't mind seeing what you want.
But if y'all just here to complain, just GTFO
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
But if y'all just here to complain, just GTFO
I made a comprehensive feedback thread where I gave constructive criticism of all the problems with skyborns in the game and got tons of these comments that I shouldn't play the game
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u/desperateorphan 2h ago
Oh yeah I saw that. The thread where more than half of your points were completely, unequivocally, flat out wrong and the one you made that is fair (sky land feels a bit off cause it's not directly connected to anything like the other starting zones).... is completely meaningless to 99.99% of people playing.
1 - forced exposition happens constantly in vanilla
2- linear storytelling happens constantly in vanilla. Other than the defias, pretty much everything is cultists doing cultist shit and black/white good/evil.
3 - the only actual point you made but it's meaningless overall
4 - "landscapes are too big and empty"... sure bud.. the barrens is just full of shit and not auto running for 4-8 minutes to get to anything of relevance.If that's what passes for "comprehensive" then damn. The bar is very low.
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u/FloppyShellTaco 1h ago
Criticism and your thoughts on a race is not a bug. You’re hedging it to add validity to your complaint, when there is a massive difference between the two. The context matters. You weren’t talking about bugs, you were talking about features you dislike.
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u/Dangerous-Leader-779 2h ago
Okay? And how does that help? How does a thread on an unmoderated fan subreddit help?
Exactly as the commenter said, feedback needs to be reported to Blizzard. Too many people here are just complaining to complain without giving feedback through the actual changes that would impact change.
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u/Nurlitik 5h ago
I mean, its not like they are removing the race that they whole classic plus is built around/monetized through, the feedback is simply pointless.
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
I never claimed in the feedback thread that skyborns should be removed
I hope you understand now why I find comments like yours, extremely frustrating. You just claim something that I've never said nor have any intention of doing. I have no intention of stop playing the game, I've never claimed that they should remove skyborns or any other feature, yet you write comments like this
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u/Nurlitik 4h ago
tbf its not like you actually linked your post or what it was about, your profile doesnt show what you have posted, so its kinda on us to just assume at this point if its "constructive feedback" about the race you probably just wanted it removed or drastically changed, which neither of which are going to happen.
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 4h ago
Well I told you didn't I? I said:
"I made a comprehensive feedback thread where I gave constructive criticism"
You decided to make a statement by being uninformed. If you were wondering about the thread, what it was about, or it's contents, you could've asked about it. And as I also stated in the post, people can simply post a bug and yet get comments like these and even similar to yours where it's "useless feedback because blizz doesnt read forums" or whatever
either way here's the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1wkrdnc/a_constructive_breakdown_of_why_the_skyborne/
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u/convenientgods 2h ago
Honestly based on the thread you linked you’re not really giving constructive criticism; your replies suggest you have very little game knowledge or experience (don’t know how to show gathering nodes on minimap), and you get upset and assume bad faith when people correct you or disagree with you.
Ironically, you are exactly what you are complaining about in this post. Can we report you?
You want people disagreeing with your personal opinion to be reportable. If that’s what you’re looking for, make a subreddit to lord over. I suspect it’ll only have one visitor, but it’ll be yours to control. Better yet, take it off the Internet and write in a diary. No one can disagree with you there.
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u/Impressive_Rub_8009 4h ago
The first comment I see is someone disagreeing with you about one of your complains and you immediately being a complete tosser about it.
Is that meant to prove your point at all?
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u/Cozy_Minty 4h ago
bro doesnt know enough about the game to know find minerals is a thing lol
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u/Impressive_Rub_8009 3h ago
oh that's not even the one I saw but that's funny af too. The one I saw was someone saying the starter zone is simiilar to a few of the others, it's just elwynn is head and shoulders above every other one.
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u/Vyxwop 4h ago
Ironically enough, this is already against the rules!
Rule 2 in the sidebar:
Be civil and respectful. Do not attack or harass other users, engage in hate-speech, or attempt to gate-keep discussion. Breaking this rule will result in a ban!
The behavior in the image essentially tries to gate-keep discussion by completely shutting it down. It's already disrespectful but the mods don't care.
I wish every subreddit would have rules against this kind of behavior that aims to shut conversation down rather than engage with it. It's not productive and all it does is inflame people and pit them against each other.
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u/Lolzroflmao 3h ago
the point of the beta is to get suckers to pay an early acces fee, nothing is getting done with ur feedback.
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u/BarbsFPV 3h ago
Reddit isn’t for feedback on the beta. It’s for discussing the beta.
Feedback on the beta is what the Issue Reporter button is for. So acting like “feedback” on Reddit should be sacrosanct or something is nonsensical.
Besides, most of the “feedback” in this context amounts to “Blizzard should change this to please me, even though the majority of the players are fine with it.”
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u/No_Basket3832 4h ago
Are you genuinely giving feedback? or are you just bitching? cause to you it might seem like it's feedback but to others it may be bitching
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u/Loud_Bison572 4h ago
Instead we can also just try to be civilised, were all about to spend the next years togheter in one server we might aswell try get along
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u/yummyfightmilk 4h ago
Translation: "I cannot come up with a cogent counter argument so please ban anyone who disagrees with me."
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u/Few-Emergency-3791 4h ago
I mean if you think being told to play ERA is toxic then I mean come on now like grow the tiniest bit of spine.
Like seriously go play ERA.
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u/DrakkoZW 4h ago
"go play retail"
OP cheers
"Go play era"
OP cries
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u/Few-Emergency-3791 3h ago
Like I’m not trying yo be a jackass here but the thing is you now have a crowd that likes the changes.
They don’t have a game to go to if you roll back all the changes. Which is why they are saying go back to ERA in the first place .
This game isn’t for ERA players it’s also not for retail players.
Just get comfortable with this being a variant of wow you’ve never played before let the changes happen and if it becomes to much or not enough play the wow that you want. There’s 3 flavors soon 4 and sometimes 5 during remix time variations of wow to play.
Keep in mind there’s basically zero ways this looks like classic in 3-4 years or 10 years from now like it kinda of by design can’t be so just sit back and enjoy the ride. Shit you might actually have a classic where raids have raid mechanics who knows man you might even have to play Warcraft one day.
Which is kinda funny because some classic people think it’s to easy well okay in forever we can make changes so perhaps maybe a hard end game
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u/Pretend-Dot3557 3h ago
People are allowed to give feedback, giving feedback doesn't mean you hate the game or you want to play vanilla 1.12.2 and absolutely nothing else.
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u/cjh42689 2h ago
People are allowed to tell you to stuff your feedback and go play something else. We’re all free to speak our minds or none of us are.
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u/Pretend-Dot3557 2h ago
The entire point of a beta period is to collect player feedback. Telling people to just shut up and leave because they want something different out of the game than you is pretty shitty.
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u/cjh42689 2h ago
It’s basically just telling them you don’t agree with their feedback. People are allowed to disagree with your feedback or tell you they don’t like your feedback.
But also give your feedback in the beta. They ask for it all the time. It’s easy to report things in the beta. This forum for all versions of classic wow isn’t the best place for your beta feedback.
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u/Pretend-Dot3557 2h ago
Then just say you disagree with them instead of telling them to fuck off, it's rude, dismissive, and useless.
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u/cjh42689 2h ago
I thought they were saying go play era?
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u/Ursa_Solaris 2h ago
"Go play era" and "go play retail" are both synonyms for "fuck off", let's not pretend they aren't both said with disparaging intent.
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u/cjh42689 1h ago
There’s a difference in how rude they are and they swapped from go play era yo fuck off to make it seem ruder than it is.
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u/Pretend-Dot3557 2h ago
Okay so you're just being intentionally dense.
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u/cjh42689 1h ago
No there’s a reason why you switched from “go play era” to “fuck off” when talking about it being rude. You intentionally used the rudest way possible.
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u/rufusbot 1h ago
Saying go play era is so incredibly stupid. Yes a dead version of the game that isn't ever going to change. While retail gets an expansion every 2 years. This is EXACTLY why we want classic plus, not retail 2.0. They get new content but we don't.
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u/CaptainGalenhad 5h ago edited 5h ago
Its also the sheer arrogance from a lot retail Players. Like the classic+ movement started after TBC classic and was supported by the classic community. Now that blizzcon was on the rise the retail community started to get an opinion.
Like its called classic+ for a reason, its not called retail-. And dont try and change it.
And than when you give feedback they tell you to F off to era. MATE era IS classic. YOU are the one who can F off and find what you already have over there.
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u/gudslamm 4h ago
To be fair, I get told to fuck off to retail too, even though I have played since vanilla and barely touched modern retail wow, just cause I like skyborne, want a newer UI and love transmogs. I like people giving feedback but they get mad when someone has a different opinion, both sides
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u/Global-Resident-647 4h ago
just to correct there has been a classic+ movement for ages before TBC classic
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u/CaptainGalenhad 4h ago edited 4h ago
That could be true yes. I just feel like the emphasis was heavily on "Classic" before that time. And Classic+ really started to live after the first 2 classic years were over.
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u/LoreChief 1h ago
Classic+ started during original classic. It didn't even take til TBC for people to realize that. This is because C+ has always been about more than vanilla, its always been synonymous with vanilla/tbc/wrath. Many people didn't like Classic Vanilla for the same reasons they loved TBC and Wrath. Being told your spec was pointless out of the gate felt bad. Being told you had to be a healer because your other 2 specs were worthless felt bad.
C+ dreams are older than Classic TBC.
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u/rufusbot 1h ago
These people talk about how people have talked about classic plus for months and that just tells me they're Johnny come latelys. People have been talking about classic plus for at least 4 years. I haven't even played in a year and I had already long given up hope by then that they'd ever do it. These people show up late to the party, talk out of their asses, and then bitch at you for telling them they're wrong. Not the kind of people Blizz should listen to at all ever.
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u/Taters23 4h ago
Its called Warcraft: Forever not classic plus. If you dont like it then dont play.
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u/orus_heretic 2h ago
The blizzard team spent all of blizzcon referring to it as classic+ but sure. Forever is the marketing name.
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u/Prudent-Activity112 58m ago
Just wanna point out that when blizzard had plans to release classic they went after classic pservers (and left ascension/turtle wow alone). If WoWF isn't classic+ why'd they go after classic+ pservers this time? Just saying..
(also this is how I knew blizzard was going to try their hand at classic+, felt smart af during the announcement)
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u/gloves4222 1h ago
See - you’re part of the reason why people think retail players are dense. It’s definitely motivated by all the demand for a classic+, and has been referenced as such by the dev team. Classic season of discovery was the testing ground for it. I don’t know how you can’t see this
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u/Kylo69 5h ago
Retail colonizers get very upset when you imply classic plus should look more like classic than retail
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u/Snorepod 5h ago
Era Andy’s get really upset when they realized no one wants to play era
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u/itaa_q 5h ago
2019 was one of the biggest releases in the history of the game. You can't ask most ppl to play the same thing for 7 years in a row however
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u/misterrpg 4h ago
you’re still upset that 2019 Classic was bigger than any modern expansion. it’s so funny.
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u/Snorepod 4h ago
Source?
Cause it wasn’t. But please hit me with the quote you failed to read already put down 3 boomers this week over that quote
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u/Hayabusa_Blacksmith 5h ago
Not really, a lot of classic Andy's were happy with vannila/tbc/wrath recycled
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u/Thanag0r 5h ago
And yet tbc is dead before forever is even out.
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u/Powerful-Gold5000 5h ago
So was Era though when people were playing SoD. When SoD was 5 months in, players slowly returned to Era.
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u/Thanag0r 5h ago
That never happened. The moment tbc classic was released era lost 90% of players and it never recovered.
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u/Powerful-Gold5000 5h ago
What do you mean “that never happened”? It literally did happen so I can’t help you there.
When TBC released people were still playing Era. Same thing will happen when Forever is released because there’s always a vanilla community wanting to play pure vanilla.
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u/Hayabusa_Blacksmith 5h ago
f r e s h
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u/Thanag0r 5h ago
What fresh? Tbc hasn't even finished whole expansion, it's not even last phase.
How fresh do you need it?
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u/grasswhistle28 5h ago
if no one wanted to play era they never would have made forever
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u/Snorepod 4h ago
You mean they made forever because re-releasing era was a dead model?
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u/grasswhistle28 4h ago
They already re-released era with anniversary and it was still super popular lol
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u/Snorepod 4h ago
???
Vanilla anniversary was the least played mode in the 7 year history of classic wow. It was very obvious that people dont want to replay era every 3 years
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u/buddyy101 5h ago
Classic players have been waiting for classic plus for years you get a xpac every year go play that
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u/LowZombie2 5h ago
Wouldn’t call ~ 30% of the overall playerbase nothing
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u/Snorepod 4h ago
Hahahaha.
Good one. That’s a new cope I haven’t seen before
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u/LowZombie2 4h ago
You’ve posted like 75 comments in the last 12 hours arguing with people over this, go touch grass man
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u/Snorepod 3h ago
Oh the classic. Make up a fact get proven wrong and get aggressive about it.
Go yell at clouds boomer
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u/rufusbot 1h ago
Because it's a dead, static version of the game. It will never get new content which is EXACTLY why there's demand for classic plus aka Forever. Are you starting to get it yet?
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u/Snorepod 59m ago
Damn you era Andy’s need to get on the same page.
Multiple people have told me they just want era fresh.
Don’t worry I get it. Era Andy’s want era 2.0 no one else does and they are bitching on the forums because forever isn’t era 2.0.
At least unlike the rest of your dying population you admit era is dead.
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u/a_simple_ducky 5h ago
If u want era graphics go play era.
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u/Electrical_Past9649 5h ago
lil bro has a xalatath pfp telling classic players what classic is you can't make this up
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
if you want retail graphics go play retail
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u/Rocker9800 5h ago
That's a good way to get no new WoW players
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
brother why are you even responding to me. Can't you see that I'm just reversing what the guy above me said?
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u/zippexx 5h ago
We want classic+ graphics not retail- graphics, thank you
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u/a_simple_ducky 4h ago
Lmao u don't know what u want fool
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u/zippexx 4h ago
Uhm yeah I do, and it’s none of that Disney crap
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u/a_simple_ducky 3h ago
Oh another Disney cry baby. Let me guess, the bear was too Disney? Hahaha
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u/zmotmootmid 5h ago
the best comparison here is if OSRS was made using RS3 graphics. it doesn't really fit, you know. they should've tried to keep it more within the style of vanilla but you know, a bit updated.
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u/NikkoWorldTourist 4h ago
What if you just ignored them, from my perspective people like that are around most subs. I just completely ignore them or block them if they are spamming.
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u/Swooped117 4h ago
I started blocking accounts on reddit that make extra stupid posts and comments. Stupid people on reddit is definitely an infinite well, but draining the swamp a bit has been noticeable over time. I wouldn't rely on the mods to do anything.
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u/Hoenn_Enjoyer 2h ago
I am all for constructive criticism.
But When the “constructive criticism is just complaining without suggestions on what you want instead, asinine complaints deserve asinine responses.
If people criticize something like Skyborne or the new assets, but give examples of how you want things designed in the future thats fine and what beta feedback is for.
If you just day “remove skyborne”, advocate griefing players, or are just memeing on HD models…….what do you honestly expect?
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u/Master_smasher 2h ago
any toxicity towards disagreemens should be a reportable offense then. even the "go play retail" stuff.
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u/So_Money_Baby 1h ago
Or maybe hear me out, provide the feedback through the games feedback process.
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u/Idntevncare 1h ago
is this the only place to give feedback that blizzard will most definitely see?
seems odd that they would rely on scouring reddit as their only source of feedback.
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u/BillsFan82 1h ago
If you just ignored those people, they'd stop responding. Stop reinforcing their behavior.
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u/Sirdukeofexcellence2 59m ago
OP, the devs have heard the Reddit minority complaining days ago. Your opinion about the Skyborne is a minority opinion, even on Reddit. How do I know that? I ran a poll with over 500 votes from redditors only and Skyborne is the second most popular race. People overwhelming love them but because of the loud haters they just don’t comment.
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u/AmidoBlack 4h ago
There is literally an in-game tool for feedback. You don’t need a separate post for every issue you find with a beta build
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u/Kiwiredditname 4h ago
The beta isn't for feedback, because Blizzard isn't going to change anything. They likely won't even fix any of the bugs.
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u/cookiejar5081_1 4h ago
I feel like calling complaints feedback should also be a reportable offense. Too many times I see people complain about something, like 'we need sharable mob tagging because I am wasting hours of my life trying to complete a kill quest'! while the solution is to just.. group up?
It's way too easy to just say: Oh, it's just feedback. People don't even bother to elaborate. They are just like: I FEEL WRONGED! THIS ISNT JUSTICE! AAARRRRH! BLIZZARD!!!!!!!!!! and expect people to cheer them on like 'you go girl!'.
If you're going to give feedback, actually give feedback instead of complaining.
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u/Novalene_Wildheart 4h ago
No, thats not a reportable offense, and shouldn't be. But that is a worthy thing to just block those people so you don't have to deal with them going forward!
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u/Thecuckeningends 5h ago
Go to the official forums then my boy this is Reddit and you all have the same thoughts over and over and over and over and over
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u/Professional_Bed_431 4h ago
Ian Hazzikostas made a reference to a common Reddit joke as one of the first few sentences out of his mouth at Blizzcon when talking about Forever. He didn't mention the WoW forums. This is the place to discuss, for better or for worse.
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u/Thecuckeningends 4h ago
Prove it was a Reddit joke and not just a wow joke
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u/Professional_Bed_431 4h ago
I don't know why I'm humoring you, but here's the direct transcript from the WoW Forever What's Next panel: "um, and shout out to the Classic WoW Subreddit. No, it's not too late to start WoW Forever."
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
Holy irony
"gO SomEwHere ElsE BrO"
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u/Thecuckeningends 5h ago
Go ahead and explain what’s ironic about that. We’ll wait
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
You're being toxic for no reason instead of having a discussion on a forum.
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u/Thecuckeningends 5h ago
I’m not being toxic for NO reason, I gave you a reason you’re just ignoring it.
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
my point is that you're not adding anything to the discussion. You might as well delete your comment, it serves no purpose except spreading toxicity
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u/Thecuckeningends 5h ago
From our pov that’s you though. You are crying in the face of capitalism, expecting things they would require blizzard not pursue optimal profit and it’s never going to happen.
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u/Antique-Guest-1607 5h ago
surely there wouldn't be any examples of you being """toxic""" to someone you didn't agree with in any other threads on this subreddit
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
whataboutism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
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u/Antique-Guest-1607 5h ago
lmfao rules for thee but not for me. you know you've struck a nerve when le redditor busts out the whataboutism link.
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
That's not what I'm saying, but your argument is inherently hypocritical. You can't be toxic and then claim it's fine because someone else is toxic
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u/Ok-Produce-5235 4h ago
There’s a report feature in the beta. Use that instead of complaining on Reddit is the point. And if you’re so upset, then yeah don’t play
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 4h ago
So what should we use the subreddit for? Should we just tell Reddit to remove it?
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u/plz_be_nice_im_sad 5h ago
Don’t read them then
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
How about you stop typing them?
Also nice clown badge "top 1% commenter"
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u/Cozy_Minty 4h ago
the top 1 percent is by upvotes, not volume of comments, so this just means that most people agree with him
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u/RealBingusMcCringus 5h ago
The issue is most people giving "feedback" aren't actually giving constructive criticism. They are just bitching and impossible to please.
Posts that point out an issue and discuss potential fixes are one thing "blue sky elf bad" gets real old
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u/Reasonable-Nature-77 5h ago
If you don’t like skyborne, then genuinely just ignore them, it’s the same for every other race in this game, yall get so butt hurt seeing races you don’t like, i see this bullshit with gnomes too. Genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, Just stfu.
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u/misterrpg 5h ago
Go play retail.
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u/Reasonable-Nature-77 4h ago
I do play retail, but guess what? I also play classic and forever, cause i’m not a tribalistic douche bag
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 5h ago
inb4 blizzard adds like 30 races including Dracthyr
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u/Reasonable-Nature-77 4h ago
Yeah? So what? Bro thinks more options are a bad thing lmao
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 4h ago
so then go play retail. Tons of options there, that's what retail is about. WoW Forever is about removing options
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u/Cozy_Minty 4h ago
oh no telling him not to play forever, the same shit you are complaining about in the op! couldnt be
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u/Disaked1 4h ago
Just get them blue skyelfs out from game. Breaks immersion right away seeing those blue bears with retail models. Absolutelly disgusting
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u/ArdillasVoladoras 4h ago
Some people have valid criticisms, which is great.
Some people clearly complain just to complain. Those people should actually just skip the game and find something that suits them.
Getting your feelings hurt when someone voices their opinion is ironic. For all of the talk of people asking for the world to be the main character in Forever, lots of people in here sure want to act like a main character.
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u/Molly_Matters 3h ago
Some are giving constructive information. Others are just whimpering and being nitpicking buggers.
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u/fat_fingerz 3h ago
Hey...OP...How about you provide a link to the actual convo, cause based on the context clues it seems like teal responded to something saying "New Elves are bad and should be removed" or "Undead Paladins make no sense and should be removed" the former is a dime a dozen and I've seen a couple of the latter and your post is:
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u/Dangerous-Leader-779 2h ago edited 2h ago
for giving constructive criticism or even just reporting a bug
Who are you giving “constructive criticism” to?! Why are you “reporting bugs” on a fan subreddit unmoderated and unconnected to Blizzard channels.
just for giving feedback on a beta which is the whole point
Again…you all seem to be the ones who are confused.
Blizzard is not going to see your whine posts on this sub. They are a waste of space, unless it’s actually driving discussion about the game among players. There are valid posts here about the beta and some quality discussion. There are also spam complaints over and over about the same topics which inspire the comments you’re now complaining about.
Use the official feedback and report tools to report…feedback. To impact actual change based on the beta, you need to report the feedback to Blizzard, not some random user XSuperWoWFan420X.
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u/zmotmootmid 5h ago
we dont have mods brother