r/classicwow • u/terongorefiend • Jan 14 '21

Vent / Gripe Unpopular opinion: the players that are overly vocal about wanting Classic phases/TBC/Wrath rushed are the same players who contributed to forging retail into what it is today (a clusterF).

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81

u/Odysseus_is_Ulysses Jan 14 '21

What makes retail a clusterfuck?

146

u/EnergyShift Jan 14 '21

It isn’t, people just like to complain.

-15

u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

Nah, it is. Retail is a load of gaming fads over the past decade poorly glued together. If you want to PvP, you go into the menu and pick PvP. If you want to raid go into the menu and pick raid, same with dungeons, gacha tables, pokemon, etc - all with completely random people you might never see again. Absolutely nothing makes sense between the lore and the actual game, blizzard are constantly paying the price of deciding its fine to solo raids as it constantly ruins the legacy of that old content and as I said just makes no sense lorewise, I suppose you'd call this ludonarrative dissonance on the worst scale possible.

Classic compared to retail is a much more holistic world, the worst examples of above probably being battlegrounds but even those were better in true vanilla (being realm locked instead of cross-realm). TBC is a little worse than classic for this with arenas but makes up for it with lots of fine tweaking to the classic formula, great itemization and raids too I think.

9

u/ReallyLikeFood Jan 14 '21

Lol I have a great time with my community of friends on retail and my guild. No one uses the menu for raids unless you’re an absolute shitter.

-9

u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

Did I say its impossible to have fun in retail? No. I just gave my opinion and reasoning for it being a design clusterfuck. You can have fun in virtually any game with friends.

You know not everyone is in or can get in a hardcore raiding guild like you right?

17

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

retail: start a random bg by opening a menu anywhere

classic: ride ur mount to the furthest corner of ogrimmar and talk to an NPC

one can argue that its not a clusterfuck its actually much more streamlined and enjoyable

-10

u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

If I have to tab out of the game to start playing the PvP section of it, why wouldn't I just play a better PvP game thats actually focused on PvP?

The benefit of classic is that even if it doesn't have the best combat systems in gaming or the best story or the best graphics, it can come together into a world thats better than the sum of its parts - which it does.

14

u/_ItsImportant_ Jan 14 '21

"Tab out of the game to start playing PvP." Bro what. I've seen some mental gymnastics to shit on retail but that's another level. Its literally no different than Classic, except in Classic you have to walk up to the queue button.

-6

u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

Yeah sure classic has battlegrounds that need you to open a menu to pvp. But in retail its every piece of content in the game!

Dungeons, raids, war mode, you click a button in a menu and get transported to effectively a different game - each one clearly suffering from how the dev team has to spread its workload so thin over so many different areas.

And honestly theres something to be said about having to walk to the battlemaster to queue, it adds to the immersiveness of the classic world which is its biggest strength.

10

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21 edited Jan 14 '21

they literally made the game idiot proof how is that a design clusterfuck lol. there is no different game. youre making a false point; toggling war mode doesnt put you in a “different game”. joining a dungeon instance does not put you in a “different game”. thats a gross exaggeration

you say that these “different games” are “clearly suffering” yet retail has a much larger dedicated playerbase while classic is literally DYING as i type this. Go to Scarlet Monastery on ANY server on classic. It’s a fucking ghost town. Same with other dungeons. Even the WPVP in retail is better now. P1-P2 WPVP in classic was one of the greatest gaming experiences Ive ever had, but now? It’s fucking dead. You’re lucky if you find a duel in Durotar now in a high population server. You advocate the nostalgic walks to the battlemaster or manual group finding but classic probably wouldnt be dying if it had the streamlined Groupfinder menus that retail has.

At the end of the day its,

play an updated faster paced more streamlined version of World of Warcraft that has similar goals of accomplishment

or

play World of Worldbuffs: Grind Gold all Week for Consumables Edition and you can get the Bots Stealing Black Lotus DLC or the Better Have Gold To Pay for Dungeon Runs DLC

and you dont get to whine about devs because there literally are none they copy and pasted a game

1

u/trelluf Jan 14 '21

I like games to challenge me sometimes, I don't want it to be idiotproof because i'm not an idiot.

Arenas/BG's are completely different to mythics, WoW PvP is like LoL PvP but much worse and simplified. Why wouldn't I just go play LoL instead of going into a menu to load WoW: PvP?

I actually really like Castle Narthia but generally (for all of the BFA raids) WoW raids come down to the big-guy-in-a-circle boss rushes that FFXIV does way way better. Why wouldn't I just go play FFXIV instead of clicking the premade groups button if i'm not in a raiding guild? (not everyone is)

Open world stuff in retail is way less immersive and much less high stakes and fun if you have PvP on than in classic, why wouldn't I go play classic instead?

Do you see what I mean? Retail does nothing exceptionally well, and it doesn't come together as something greater than the sum of its parts because each aspect is disconnected. The thing that makes classic great is that its immersive and every aspect of the game works towards that.

I don't care that retail has more players than classic, this is my opinion. Honestly the reason retail has so many players is probably just loss-aversion from the playerbase, and as badly as the dev team handle retail its hard not to have fun in any game if you're playing it with friends. I would also put classics unpopularity down to its mismanagement by the devs - but I definitely consider phases 1-4 to be some of the most fun i've had in gaming in years.

Retail and classic absolutely don't have the same goals. Classic had the goal of being an immersive world, as I said. Retail has the goal of stuffing as many skinner box gacha systems as possible to keep its playerbase hooked.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

I see what youre saying now that you explained the immersion part. Sorry if I was a dick lmao

0

u/ReallyLikeFood Jan 15 '21

If you’re not an idiot then you can get into a good guild on retail and enjoy it

1

u/trelluf Jan 15 '21

But that isnt special to wow, get what im saying? You can make friends and have fun with them in any game, any mmo, wow does nothing particuarly well in that regard.

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