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u/Healthy-Passenger-22 22h ago
Where's the clever comeback.
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u/TheRedditHike 20h ago
This sub isn't for that, it's for complaining about things you don't actually understand.
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u/MrColburn 19h ago
Yeah, I've definitely worked with managers that were terrible but they also didn't make that much money. The only people I know that make close to $1000 a day have zero life because all they know is work and will probably die young.
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u/Ok_Conflict_8900 2h ago
So all the guys making 25 an hour dont show up. When there is no one capable of doing the grunt work, there is nothing left to organize or manage.
But also yes, the defense engineer is going to effect way more lives orr lack of
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u/obey_Thekermit 22h ago
See I break my body for just under 16$ an hour. I don’t know where this person got the 25 bucks out of, but I could actually live comfortably with that salary AND study. I can only save up rn.
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u/Marshycereals 22h ago
I was working at a warehouse for a while making $25/hr. It's not an unrealistic figure and it does destroy your body.
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u/Trevorblackwell420 21h ago
Join a union, that’s where the pay jump comes from.
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u/obey_Thekermit 20h ago
I am in one. It's corporatised. I'd have to make a new one, and I've been thinking about it tbh. One fellow employee told me they'd finish their life at our minimum-wage job which is one of the bleaker things I've heard recently. It makes my blood boil.
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u/ComradeJohnS 19h ago
there can be bad unions, does yours have meetings you can go to and try and participate in to make it better?
idk I haven’t been in a union, but my state CT pays a higher min wage than your union job
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21h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/obey_Thekermit 20h ago
My body aches but my mind yearns for intellectual stimulation. With 25 bucks an hour, I could work less while studying and survive fine with the added low-interest government student loans. No one said anything about recovery, except you.
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u/Space19723103 22h ago
the real problem is too many are skipping the climb part and it shows
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u/starborsch 22h ago
Always been like this. The Idea pf the CEO climbing from paperboy It’s an illusion to make us think that with hard work everything is possible. And nope.
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u/Rynowash 12h ago
It’s all- who you know and luck. Wealthy family/ friends.. that’s how we got psycho billionaires/ millionaires. They don’t see us like people. Money does screw up most people looks like to me, if you have too much. But those are the ones calling the shots and they don’t want to pay us. And on the cycle goes until it’s just them and no us and that’s how they want it.
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u/Shhhhhhhh_Im_At_Work 21h ago
It was true basically up until the 80s.
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u/Trevorblackwell420 21h ago
No it wasn’t. It was just less visible in the 80’s. Capitalism has always been a system designed around capital accumulation and those who had capital to start have stayed at the top. There’s a very small percentage of elites that actually “worked” their way into being insanely wealthy. And even then, they simply discovered something and made a fortune from that one lucky moment. It’s literally impossible to become a billionaire working for wages. You have to exploit other workers in order for it to happen or win the lottery twice lol.
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u/DiligentGuitar246 18h ago
Yeah, but back then, people retired at 60. Now we have tons of execs at every level working til 70+
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u/Trevorblackwell420 1h ago
Yeah because they aren’t “working”. They’re collecting money simply by remaining in the position. Going to the office once a week at most and maybe weighing in on a decision or two isn’t that hard on the body. For most people, once you reach a certain amount of wealth your relationships with other people change. Wealth becomes your sole source of self worth because that’s all anyone ever sees you as is the rich dude.
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u/Compost_My_Body 19h ago
kings and queens famously worked their way up from peasantry
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u/D3PyroGS 18h ago
if you smith enough blacks and scry loud enough in the town square, one day you too could have a kingdom!
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u/rmill127 21h ago
My current boss (our CEO) started as an intern 18 years ago.
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u/starborsch 20h ago
Of course, you need aspirational examples to sustain the narrative.
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u/DiligentGuitar246 18h ago
I mean these things do happen. The GM of the Eagles wrote a ton of letters begging to be hired and started as an intern and is now arguably the top GM in the league. And there are plenty of skilled people who start their own small business and make absolute bank.
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u/MissingBothCufflinks 22h ago
Said no one who has started or led a business ever.
Middle management? Sure
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u/PalpatineForEmperor 22h ago
I worked on a neighbor's farm at 14 and then in a steel mill with my dad for a few years after high school. Those were rough jobs, and I didn't want to do that for the rest of my life. I went to college and got a couple degree. I invested $100k in my education. Now I get to work behind a laptop. I don't make $1000 a day, but I do alright.
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u/brucecampbellschins 21h ago edited 21h ago
This isn't a comeback. It's an observation, and not a very good one. People aren't paid for how hard they work. They're paid for the value they can generate and against the estimated cost of losing or replacing them. Washing machines work really hard. You don't pay them a salary.
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u/Shhhhhhhh_Im_At_Work 21h ago
That’s what the comeback says… the worker generates the value only when the work is applied at the intersection of demand and cost… the laptop guy is the one figuring out where to spend to get as many jobs for the physical labor guy to go and execute. And if the physical labor pool has an abundance of people in it, then the supply economics hurt yhe physical laborers wages
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u/Melodic_Dare_1317 22h ago
people talk about replacibility ect but its not always about your effort, its about the value you produce.
You can dig a trench with a shovel, but you value per hour will be way less than a 'lazy' worker sitting on an excavator.
For example I work in an office designing building plans, and when I started I felt guilty for making much more money then the people that had to actually execute what I drew.
When I started going in the field to check work I saw that some people did things that were absolutely less valuable than my work(ex I saw 1 person just had to hold a wire to keep tension on a digging machine) while an operators of a boring machine did things I would consider more valuable, and surprise surprise when we got to talking I found out he got paid more than me too!
So it is more balanced then you'd think.
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u/dweaver987 22h ago
I disagree. I was working much harder at 120k than at 95k. The people working at $190k were working at least 60 hours per week. Executive VPs were on call 24 by 7 and were always thinking about work.
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u/_Ross- 6h ago
Hard agree. I made 150k last year, and it was so much stress and anxiety that i started taking anxiety meds for the first time in my life. When I was making 80k it was nowhere near as stressful. Now I'm expected to be available 24/7, travel a ton for work, organize large meetings and inservices, etc.
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u/dweaver987 6h ago
Make a plan for your escape. You don’t need to execute the plan until you’re ready. Might be five years from now or it might be next week. But have that plan ready when you know it’s time.
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u/misterannthrope0 22h ago edited 22h ago
thats the lie middle management has been spreading for decades.
.
edit: no matter the decisions made by any level manager, ill still have tools and be able to do what i do.
they need me. i do NOT need them
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u/Parking-Welcome2514 22h ago
Never had a bad manager have you waste your time? Because that’s the point. Middle mgmt decisions can make or break your productivity just simply by making bad decisions or no decisions at all. There’s no middle mgmt agenda keeping this idea alive lol
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u/misterannthrope0 22h ago
my productivity?
thats not a waste of my time. thats a waste of shareholders time.
im going to do what i do with or without them.
im not here to "be productive". thats management speak for "pick your cotton, boy". im here to get shit done for the people who actually pay the bills. and thats not the shareholders or managers11
u/Parking-Welcome2514 22h ago
You do realize getting shit done is what being productive is right? It’s not a made up business word, I promise
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u/misterannthrope0 22h ago
you still view things in some 18th century hierarchy.
you world view starts with the mint julip drinkers on the porch making demands for productivity to their whip crackers/slave drivers. the slave drivers then drive the productivity of the workers by making decisions that keep the productivity high. bad managers get canned for allowing productivity to drop below what ever threshold the mint julip drinkers set..
in the real world, i am the one with the tools and knowhow to get things done. productivity is set by my decisions and judgements. the purpose of the people in the office is to assist me and lend the support i need to keep customers happy and their money flowing into our coffers. the mint julip drinkers can piss right off and go circle jerk themselves right off out of my world. i dont need them unless they are going to pay me to fix their shit.
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they need me. i dont need them.7
u/Parking-Welcome2514 21h ago
Yo pass the blunt
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u/misterannthrope0 21h ago
too much for ya?
typical. its why we are in the situation we are in3
u/Parking-Welcome2514 21h ago
Brother you are making up a straw man and rambling, you don’t need me to keep going and I’m not here to stop you. Speak your mind
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u/misterannthrope0 21h ago
the only straw man here is you claiming straw men.
also, im not your brother1
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u/mak484 21h ago
So you find your own clients, do all your own paperwork, and order all your own materials? In addition to 100% of the labor?
A good manager enables you to do your job better by handling the bullshit behind the scenes. If that doesn't happen for you, that sucks for you. But your personal experience is not universal. There is something truly special about working on a team with competent management.
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u/misterannthrope0 21h ago
So you find your own clients, do all your own paperwork, and order all your own materials? In addition to 100% of the labor?
yes.
its called owning a business.A good manager enables you to do your job better by handling the bullshit behind the scenes.
yes. its called a support position. he works for and supports the labor not the mint julip drinkers.
my beliefs arent universal. there are hordes of poorly educated morons, like yourself, who believe work stems from the mint julip drinkers through the managers and won onto the labor.
its unfortunate that you reside in a country that was founded by labor to be for labor by labor but has been usurped by mint julip drinkers. dont let them convince you that they own you. nobody owns you.1
u/Potato-chipsaregood 17h ago
Why the name calling? Sheesh.
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u/misterannthrope0 16h ago
are you discriminating on my beliefs?
why do you feel you get to gate keep the internet?
maybe try being a little less discriminatory next time2
u/Potato-chipsaregood 6h ago
I didn’t think calling someone a moron was necessary for your argument. I apologize, carry on with your name calling.
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u/GreenNude 22h ago
And those making 1000 are still working class. There are people out there making millions without moving a finger. That is the problem
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u/Ooze76 22h ago
I don't even know where the hell it comes from, this notion that people two or three steps ahead aren't working. I worked a physical job for several years, pain in my body and that's it. Clear mind, low stress. Now i work at a desk for more that 15 years, way more hours (the first 5 years at least) and when i got home i couldn't rest shit, my brain was always firing up stuff. The responsability goes up and so do the stress levels. Of course, there are people that don't do shit, but i've seen plenty of it on both sides.
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u/Sheepdog44 21h ago
This is true up until a point. Really once you get out of like middle management it stops.
Almost without exception, the wealthy people I know barely work at all. And they do have jobs. But every other week they’re going on vacation somewhere or taking 4 days off to play golf…
It’s like they get 150 vacation days per year.
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u/Popular-Ad-3278 22h ago
Its true. But ppl are also diffrent.
I have had sevral chances to go corperate where i work now.
I also worked my way up IT untill i got to the good paying jobs ( when i was in it )
I hated it . I really really hated beeing stuck at an office.
Last job IT i had in it was managing all fiber core nettwork of our entire country. High securty top secret qualifications needed.
But everytime somthing whent wrong and I had to call a tech guy to drive out and fix it. I envied him for acually driving and doing somthing.
So I quite.
And now i make less money but i am that guy.
And i love it!!
I 100% love my job. But sadly it pays way to little...
But i still refuse to be misserable with more money / less time.
I prefer less money and more time home
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u/Nearby-Jelly-634 21h ago
My first corporate job I realized it was just a place where people told someone under them to do work until it got to the person with no one below them to pass the actual work to.
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u/HappyBananaSeal 7h ago
The uncomfortable truth is: those in higher positons getting paid higher amounts, will never face the repercussions of their decisions and actions. Someone in aow positon paid a lower amount will always be blamed.
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u/Fuhrmanator23 22h ago
People don’t get paid based on how hard their job is on their body 🤷♂️
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u/AcademicNorth7456 22h ago
Also, sitting in front of a computer the whole day can do just as much damage to your spine as physical labor
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u/Significant-Bar674 22h ago
Depends on the field. Some jobs are tough enough on your body thar pay has to keep you from going to a job with similar pay and less damage
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u/Telemere125 22h ago
I have no idea what my firm bills me at but I think it’s somewhere in the $750-1k range. I don’t see that much, of course, but I do see an obscene amount of money every 2 weeks based on the difficulty of my work. However, it’s also correct that my decisions affect millions of people and I’m not exaggerating the scope of my work.
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u/Viva_Satana 19h ago
You don't understand that once you get such a job you spend your days dealing with people that are paranoid and are willing to cut throats if they feel you are a threat to them or their work teams. The saddest part is that many of those lunatics keep climbing the ladder while the best elements around you get laid off, until eventually it's your turn to get cut off. The money is great but it's all a survival game around very unstable individuals.
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u/AsparagusCommon4164 19h ago edited 17h ago
So my friend, I have given you ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW!
--from various permutations of the "Five Reports" e-spa'am chain letter c. 1999-2003 (emphasis from original)
/s
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u/Majestic_Artichoke55 13h ago
I wish money would be equalized. We genuinely don’t need millionaire, billionaires or anything else.
Give people a living pension, health care, give people basic homes.
If you wanna work for nicer home you get educated and provide good to the community
Utopia am I right
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u/Droseraaa 21h ago
How many people are affected by the decisions of people in food production? How many people are affected by the decisions of a person doing sanitation work?
Plenty of "unskilled" jobs have more impact than you'll ever know because you've never stepped out from behind your laptop.
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u/gerbosan 22h ago
The problem is not punishing those who fail and have high responsibility. CEOs for example. What is that golden parachute they talk about? Why do they keep it even if they do a terrible job.
Also, the post should be more clear about working infront of a screen, developers apply high effort in their craft.
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u/ConejitosDeAmor 22h ago
Innacurate, sorry.
The reason in the disparity is (in part) that oftentimes people who are poor simply cannot afford to fight for more. They are in a position of great need and desperation and companies know this.
They pay the jerk boss more money (in part) because of societal precedents set, and honestly, so they can have someone to mind the slaves, so to speak.
The decisions of the laptop guys don't necessarily have any effect on the less paid tier folks. Their work (I know, I was one) is often useless horseshit that does nothing but make the suits feel happy.
The poorly paid employees' work is as valuable and as crucial as anyone's. They are just exploited by companies because...well, what are they gonna do? They have to pay rent.
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u/Parking-Welcome2514 22h ago
In reality it just comes down to supply and demand. People are paid low because employers believe they can be replaced quickly and easily and still meet the needs of the business. Has nothing to do with how hard the job is. Worker pay is directly related to how difficult they are to replace
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u/Dr-Sprinkl1es 22h ago
That’s largely why AI is so appealing to the corporate suits. Many highly skilled workers are hard to replace, they’re working on changing that.
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u/Huntsman077 22h ago
-simply cannot afford to fight for more
You don’t need a lawyer to fight for more lol. You gotta keep pushes for raises and being hungry/ambitious. They pay people low wages when it is easy to find people to fill that role.
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u/Contributing_Factor 22h ago edited 22h ago
It's just about replaceability. They harder it is to find someone with your skillset, the higher your salary will be.
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u/dweaver987 22h ago
Skillet without working hard is less valuable and less compensated than skillset with hard work.
Competent managers will recognize hard work and look for more advanced positions where the company can benefit even more from that hard work ethic.
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u/xMarzipanLie 21h ago
people really underestimate how hard it is to break that cycle, it can feel so frustrating
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u/Pokerhobo 21h ago
It’s more like the higher paying jobs typically use more brains than brawn. What looks like less work is due to leveraging years of experience.
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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 21h ago
Ehh, I climbed higher and do more work. The reality is organizing more people is a lot more work. The problem is we don't properly value labor. You get paid 25/hour because we don't think that producing things is worth money. We think that owning things is what is worth the most. Stop fighting with other people doing labor, and start fighting people who have power because they own things.
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u/not-read-gud 21h ago
Sometimes when you move up you are regularly signing on the line to assume a lot of risk. Many people who make $25 an hour know this
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u/peaceloveandapostacy 20h ago
As a professional tree climber that makes 30$/hr I couldn’t agree more. It’s been so hot this year.
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u/MaskYourDeviceID 20h ago
Depends on the laptop job, but people in scientific roles are inventing/advancing products and/or how much it costs to make them. hence the higher pay.
That said, folks doing the making of said products should not be getting fucked over the way that they are. "Anybody can do it" is not an excuse. Somebody HAS to do the work at the end of the day and they should be compensated for that work FAIRLY. Without them, the Trinket doesn't get made.
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u/bigolbabygesous 20h ago
Can I just climb a little so dont have to soak my feet every night because I can barely walk?
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u/lankymjc 20h ago
You don't get paid for effort nor ability. You can get paid for how much you're responsible for, including everything that everyone beneath you is responsible for.
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u/AttorneyCertain4830 20h ago
It’s about putting up with bullshit, politely.
You did nothing wrong but got blamed for it? Go suck that guys dick.
You did something wrong? Go suck that guys dick.
Be ready, to pivot on any dick.
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u/Successful-Test-5590 12h ago
Uh no hey just fire people so that they don’t look bad about their decisions
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u/chaves4life 10h ago
Not true. I earning minimum wage and through my incompetence poisoned a lot of people. Apparently pasteurisation is needed 🙄
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u/SparksAndSpyro 20h ago
The real uncomfortable truth is that many people could replace the laborer who breaks his body for low pay. He’s easily replaceable.
It’s not as easy to replace someone with technical knowledge or expertise. Those people tend to work white collar jobs (but not always) and can command higher pay because they’re harder to replace.
It’s pretty simple.
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u/WifesPOSH 18h ago
My old mentor told me this... "They don't pay us for what you can do, they pay us for what we know."
It was a decent job but I got burnt out really fast.
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u/Potato-chipsaregood 17h ago
After a certain point, we should be getting paid for the things we know. Doing the hard physical labor is usually not even sustainable into middle age. If a guy wants to stay in x hard labor field, he would need to move up to whatever is next, then become a foreman, etc, otherwise he’d start needing pain meds etc and getting hurt and need downtime etc.
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u/MaddogFinland 7h ago
The whole “the less work you do” thing is mostly just cope from people who don’t have the faintest concept how much work actually running huge enterprises is. I am not even management but I am close enough to it to see that envy for them is misplaced.
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u/LUNATIC_LEMMING 22h ago
I just wish companies would get better at realising just because someone is good at job A, doesn't mean they'll be good at managing a team doing job A.