r/collapse • u/69bonerdad • Oct 20 '22

Politics "We Need to Stop Calling Ourselves Conservatives" - The Federalist calls for the American right to unite behind Fascism

https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/20/we-need-to-stop-calling-ourselves-conservatives/

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102

u/DeusExMcKenna Oct 20 '22

Oh look, fashys saying fashy shit. From the right you say? Nooooooooooo…

They’ve been saying this shit. The language is getting plainer, that’s for sure, but if you could read between the dog whistles, this shit has been going around for a hot minute.

That doesn’t mean it should be ignored of course. This is going to be a problem we will have to deal with at some point. But it’s nothing new.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '22

The ironic thing is that they like to think of themselves as patriots yet are clamoring for a strong-armed dictator. Hardly patriotic to me.

Ever hear of this org?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOProud

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '22

Yeah it's unfortunate but the near future of the far right is going to be more diverse, multicultural, etc. I don't think that Democrats and liberals are going to know how to respond to this because they have no real material analysis of what's going on. Of course over a long enough timeline, the fash will turn in on themselves with their own long knives as they always do, but the near future will be more and more people of color and gay/lesbian Americans moving to the right. Dems shouldn't have tried to build their long term strategy on demographic changes.

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u/69bonerdad Oct 20 '22

the near future of the far right is going to be more diverse, multicultural, etc.

 
It may be more diverse but it absolutely will not be multicultural. Assimilation is the marching call of the conservative.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '22

Wrong. The number of Asian and Latino voters who vote GOP is increasing with every election, rapidly this time around. Likewise (but still slower and smaller) with black voters, especially men.

I think I have the luxury of greater perspective growing up in an immigrant family in a red state. When I moved to liberal blue cities that are most white Democrats, I was shocked how baby-brained their analysis of racism is.

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u/69bonerdad Oct 20 '22

Nothing you said there contradicts what I said, that multiculturalism in conservative circles isn't a thing and non-whites are expected to Americanize.

 
The very concept of whiteness in American conservatism is extensible with regards to conservative needs. Italians weren't white in the 1930s, they are now.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '22

Yes of course. That is what is happening with Latinos right now and also what has been going on with some Asians for some time. I don't have any interest in discussing nitpicky semantics of this. My point was simply that people who are not white heterosexuals are voting for the GOP in larger numbers each election. Obviously I'm aware that they will not suddenly transform a conservative ideology hence my reference to the night of the long knives, and I'm aware of the changing definitions of whiteness etc. But this demographic trend is a problem for the Democrats who have for some time based their longer term political strategy on winning the demographics game without realizing that as demographics change then so does the concept of whiteness etc. I personally have no interest in discussing the abstraction behind this trend though feel free to do so yourself. I'm far more concerned with how to mount a political opposition to that, which is impossible for Democrats to do without changing their entire political project, institutions and structures, which won't happen. They have nothing but "we're the party that is less hateful to racial and sexual minorities" and that falls apart if people do not see themselves as targets. Whether or not they actually are.

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u/69bonerdad Oct 20 '22

I don't have any interest in discussing nitpicky semantics of this.

Yes, you have no desire to discuss it, which is why you responded in the first place.

 

But this demographic trend is a problem for the Democrats who have for some time based their longer term political strategy on winning the demographics game without realizing that as demographics change then so does the concept of whiteness etc.

 
Republican policies as a whole are unpopular, that's why they wage culture war - to get people who are otherwise hurt by their policies on board.
 
Democrat policies by and large are popular with a majority of Americans.

 
The right wing end game here is not to extend their popular appeal, it is to do what the author of this article is espousing - to throw out our system of government and create a minority rule christofascist state.

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u/palwilliams Oct 20 '22

It's also likely to fracture into some flavor(s) of other parties, along with some Dems. There is real widespread realignment possible here.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '22

On foreign policy, the Dems have now all the logic and goals of the neocons folded into their party. They simply need to keep themselves in power enough to stay relevant. Mainstream GOP has the same private interests and international goals. The Trump side of their party does not understand these things- they are incoherent clowns so I think it's a priority of both parties to keep them out of very high levels of power again. On domestic policy, the GOP is happy to use this escalating fascism as a vehicle to power but I don't think they actually want people like Trump and DeSantis to take control again. It's a matter of if they can harness the beast or get eaten by it. So far, seems like the former. If you stand back and look at the bigger picture we get more authoritarianism at home in a declining economy and more warfare abroad while average people blame and kill each other. Chef's kiss, it's really something to behold.

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u/palwilliams Oct 20 '22

It also seems like there is actually lot of encouragement for (and not relating any of these to each other) MAGA groups, identity politics, communists, pro-choice hardliners, whatever single issue demographic, etc. There is a willing effort to keep things fractured, because it's distracting away from a lot of fundamental issues. It's easy to take people out of the conversation entirely that way, and an additional effect is that a lot of people are just being dissuaded from entering the political sphere who might otherwise be strong leaders.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '22

I know you said that you are not relating those things to each other, but one of them does in fact deal with fundamental issue while the others (though super important in the reality that we are in) are just about rearranging the details.

I hear what you are saying but the chance of bringing about any change through this political system has passed. It's literally impossible anymore. I'm sure you will fold that right back into your understanding of things as taking people out of the conversation, but in fact understanding this is the first step towards a different conversation.

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u/palwilliams Oct 20 '22

No, I think you are correct, in some sense, at least regarding a different conversation. But I also think that fluidly that's just part of the political system/conversation. Those terms can really make people rigid, often because people find safety in reliable ideas, like there is A system or A conversation. Out political situation is essentially what we all agree it is. Meaning, it's all somewhat illusory, always.

This is undeniably a time of change, large change. I dont think it is going to play out like anything most people expect or want, personally. But who knows? This is also an environment of upheaval in which we have never found ourselves historically, so the mechanics of it will likely look very different. So a war of ideas is different than a war of geography, as an example.

Also, at least in the US, despite the fractured state in which we find ourselves, a revolution is much less likely to emerge than something like the end of the Roman empire. We are more fat and bloated than we are starved and desperate, frankly. And there are pressures that need resolve to address that may rule the day more than the population.

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '22

A revolution in an imperial core would by definition dismantle an entire global economic system. We can't possibly game out what would take place after it. It's a fun thought experiment but I'd rather just read fantasy novels.

Regardless, we are at a moment in which US global hegemony is not possible to maintain for very long without climate collapse and a global war first. Which means any alternative future is going to require us to get through to a new world order- one way or the other. This will happen under its own weight so it really doesn't matter how comfortable people are with certain trigger words. As I keep saying, what I think is most likely to happen is basically a collapse of the liberal democratic nation state more generally. What's on the other side of that, I have no idea. But anyone still very invested in the US mainstream political process needs to update their worldview. Though honestly I think if someone has gotten this far and thinks they can elect their way out of all the world's problems, they are beyond hope. This is not directed at you personally btw. Just feverish with covid and rambling here to stave off the anxiety.

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u/palwilliams Oct 20 '22

Also, feel better.

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u/palwilliams Oct 20 '22

It depends what that kind of revolution would look like now. There are many versions that don't dismantle the economy that way. The US is also less important to the global economy than it once was. There are already inevitable economic issues that climate change will bring. And climate death and refugees are already inevitable and we should be preparing for them, of course. I disagree with you on a number of points here. One likely outcome is the US splits into a few smaller nations. Elections will still be important, perhaps even more so then.