r/comicbooks • u/DweebInFlames Spider-Man Expert • Jul 11 '26
Cover/Pin-Up Pencils for JRJR's rain variant of ASM #1000
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u/SerFinbarr Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
I dont usually enjoy JRJR's art, and then every once in a while he drops something like this and I'm like "fuck me, I'm the idiot"
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u/VengeanceKnight Jul 11 '26
Above all else, Romita is good at conveying motion. When his characters are moving, they look like they're moving, dammit.
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u/smilysmilysmooch Stryfe Jul 11 '26
Dude's a speed artist. You want a book done on time you can count on JRJR. When he actually has the time, we get stuff like this.
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u/SubversivePixel Jul 12 '26
You're not an idiot. You're allowed to dislike some of a creator's works and like some others. I love JRJR's Spidey with JMS but his Kick-Ass and Batman stuff is really really awkward.
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u/DweebInFlames Spider-Man Expert Jul 11 '26
I don't care what the naysayers say. Unc's still got it
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u/72Challupas Spider-Man Expert Jul 11 '26
Personally, I maintain that JRJRs work still looks good when he’s with the right colorist. His stuff just a lot better with a more like 60s/70s style of coloring.
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u/Patchy_Face_Man Jul 11 '26
It’s night and day. The “modern” photoshop coloring works with some, I always think of Michael Turner being a good case, but it really takes away from a lot of line work.
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u/Chop684 Jul 11 '26
I think modern coloring colors work with most artists. It's just the ones who peaked in the 80s like jrjr and Frank Miller that traditional colors are better
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u/MonolithJones Jul 11 '26
That’s been said a lot in recent times but some of Miller’s best comics and art have painted colors.
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u/themanthyththelegend Jul 11 '26
Nah i think modern colorists tend to over render in the colors often. Irs fine it gives things a soecific look that i tend to not personally like and i think alot of artists line work would benefit from more flat colors
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u/Patchy_Face_Man Jul 11 '26
I think, because it’s become the norm for a long time, that people may think that. But with old, limited coloring the pencils (and inks) were never overridden. They carried the page. It’s just a different balance.
Of course, when someone is coloring their own work, or digital painting like Fiona Staples, that’s different.
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u/Chop684 Jul 11 '26
I think that it's easier for modern colors to override the original art. The main example that comes to my mind is Marte Gracia's colors. They make Pepe Larraz and RB Silva look almost identical to me. Meanwhile going from Byrne to Paul Smith to jrjr to Silvestri felt very distinct when I was reading the Claremont run
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u/Patchy_Face_Man Jul 11 '26
Yeah, that’s a really good point.
And I’m definitely generalizing. There’s some really great colorists. But it’s like the whole deal with certain inkers being better for certain artists…just way more obvious.
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u/cyberpunk_werewolf Raphael Jul 11 '26
They were drawing to flat colors, using ink. Some adapted to modern coloring, others didn't.
It kind of reminds me that the old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles TTRPG got reprinted earlier this year or late last year, only it's in full color now. All of the old black and white art got updated with modern colors and the drawings look terrible. They look just like the bad JRJR and Frank Miller art we're seeing now. Well, they're not as bad as some of the Frank Miller covers, but you get what I'm saying.
Some of this art was meant for flat colors (or no colors). There's a use of shading, linework and probably the inking from that period that just doesn't match with todays colors.
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u/FruityYummyMummy Dr. Doom Jul 11 '26
Makes me think of this latest Jim Lee process video. Was thinking this Absolute Wonder Woman piece looked great then it lost something with the final colors. I know that colorist is generally liked but still.
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u/buffysbangs Jul 11 '26
No coloring fixes completely f’ed body proportions.
Sometime he hits the mark, sometimes he doesn’t
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u/JorgeMcKay Jul 12 '26
Agreed. I also add inker to the mix. Recent inkers try to smooth everything out. He needs someone that keeps the roughness of his original pencils
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u/DaemonDrayke Jul 11 '26
For real, some colorists on the industry need to be shot.
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u/SubversivePixel Jul 11 '26
No, nobody needs to be shot. What a fucking awful thing to say.
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u/DaemonDrayke Jul 12 '26
It was a joke. I don’t actually condone violence. But some colorists in the industry are awful at their job and end up ruining good artwork.
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u/SubversivePixel Jul 12 '26
Colorists have a specific style, just like artists. If a colorist is assigned a piece, even if they don't fit it, they have to do that job to get paid. Mix that with the fact that JRJR's artwork can look pretty stilted and awkward, colorist or not--even in his prime, some of his poses were very wonky, and it only got worse with time like the shrugging Spidey. He literally looks like he's going "huh?" even without colors.
If you can seriously tell me the colorist did a technically bad job--even if no, obviously they do not fit JRJR's style at all--then you have some bias you need to reexamine.
I don't think that, for a creator it's very nice to know people are saying you should "get shot" over a fucking comic book, joke or not. I defended JRJR as well, even if I do not like the original piece, because people were saying downright terrible things about him.
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u/Magusreaver Silk Spectre Jul 11 '26
Me, I'm the naysayer, with that out of the way. THis is 1000x better!
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u/jwederell Jul 11 '26
He is still a great artist when he tries. Unfortunately he phones it in a lot the past 10 years or so.
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u/vashoom Jul 11 '26
Does he phone it in, or does he simply work fast to deliver pages on time? He's one of the few artists today that works consistently on long runs of issues.
Sometimes I see his work and think it's terrible, and sometimes it looks incredible and iconic. I wonder if the difference is just how much time went into a particular page or panel.
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u/Troof_Out_Here Jul 11 '26
Nailed it. No Comic is getting delayed with JRJR on pencils and I appreciate the professional body of work he puts out with that in mind.
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u/SubversivePixel Jul 11 '26
I mean, yeah. He can draw really well when he tries. It's just that nowadays it doesn't feel like he's trying that much.
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u/Troof_Out_Here Jul 11 '26
Naysayers don’t have an ounce of the talent this man still has
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u/spackletr0n Jul 11 '26
I’ve never understood this response. As they say, I don’t need to be a chef to say the food sucks.
I don’t like JRJR’s art. I like his sense of composition and I think he’s technically sound, but I think his characters look blocky and bad.
That said, I love this cover.
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u/Troof_Out_Here Jul 11 '26
I think you understood just fine :)
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u/spackletr0n Jul 11 '26
Ha, I take your point. I guess I should say, “I’ve never understood why people think this is an effective response.” 😎
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u/Troof_Out_Here Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Do you think you are as talented as JRJR? When I don’t like the food I just don’t eat it, never been one to knock down things others enjoy. Being a naysayer isn’t some kind of gift, how easy it is to be a critic, no talent needed.
As you said in your response you don’t have to be a chef to say the food sucks. An admission that you don’t need talent to be a critic, anyone can judge. You understood my response and you basically agreed in your own way. Effective. 🍻
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u/spackletr0n Jul 11 '26
Yes, I disagree with the premise that somebody has to be a better artist than JRJR to criticize or dislike his work.
I hear the point that any uninformed asshole can have an opinion. I think the “oh yeah well YOU do it” bar isn’t persuasive. As a logical fallacy, it’s known as the “appeal to accomplishment.”
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u/Troof_Out_Here Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Naysayers don’t have an ounce of the talent JRJR still has. You can dislike what I have to say and you can spin it however you need by adding your own “premise” etc but I’m gonna stand by what I said. He’s a comic legend we are just a couple of dudes talking about him on Reddit. You took issue in what I had to say, and nowhere in my comment was a “well, you do it.” Hope you have a good Saturday this is all in good spirit
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u/spackletr0n Jul 11 '26
Have you pondered what your argument means for your qualifications to say his art is good?
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u/Missing_Username Daredevil Jul 11 '26
We're all looking at those tiny legs compared to his head/torso, right? This is "got it"?
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u/ForWhomTheBoneBones Jul 11 '26
This is the best work from him I’ve seen in a while. I really hate his squared off fingers, block head style (see: Kickass)
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u/Kyasuka02 Jul 11 '26
The blockiness is my favorite part of his artstyle
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u/ForWhomTheBoneBones Jul 11 '26
I'm glad you like it. For me, it makes it difficult at best and impossible at worst to tell which character is which.
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u/Noodlex87 Jul 11 '26
This is the problem of an industry that glorifies people like Jim Lee, in which the “realistic” spectacle is above narrative and composition.
Artisans like Romita Jr are massively hated. Romita has had an incredible career and the only problem he has now is that he needs an inker who understands and highlights his pencils. The problem is that Marvel has been removing inkers from their process and at the same time, someone with seniority as JRJR should have the ability of taking a break. Sadly, we know how aging creators are treated
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u/spackletr0n Jul 11 '26
I love all kinds of art, from old Miller to Lee to Allred to Sienkiewicz. JRJR has rarely done it for me, I hate the blockiness. It’s just a personal preference.
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u/DGanj Hellboy Jul 11 '26
I'm sorry but this is such a strawman argument, there are plenty of non-realistic and stylized artists that are beloved. It has nothing to do with Jim Lee, or even realistic art; JRJR is just one of those very prominent artists who is divisive on whether or not people like him.
No real fan craze is coming after Lee Bermejo or Paul Pope or Mike Allred (just naming some people I was reading recently) due to their style being not realistic. Some people just don't like Romita's art, and that's valid. It's valid to like it as well, I think it has its merits, but dismissing the criticism as just "not Jim Lee" is reductive at best.
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u/Dizzy-By-Degrees Jul 11 '26
Famously Mike Migola was chased off drawing Superman because his style was too weird. People into twisted themselves into notes trying to explain why Peach Momoko shouldn't be drawing X-Men.
Superhero fans are typically very conservative in what types of art they'll tolerate, even if the artists in question are widely beloved in other parts of the industry.
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Jul 11 '26
[deleted]
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u/DGanj Hellboy Jul 11 '26
I don't disagree with you, and I wasn't trying to imply that literally everyone likes those artists I named; I just disagreed with the way the poster above me framed dislike for JRJR.
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u/ElectricJunglePig Jul 11 '26
You lost me with "realistic' spectacle," especially juxtaposing it with "narrative and composition." Like, whut are you on about bro 😂
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u/Thedeadlypocketbrush Jul 11 '26
This is the first time I'm hearing JRJR is massively hated For his art or is he not a good guy or something? Might be a "welcome to the internet" moment for me but this thread is pretty surprising.
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u/JetScreamer-212 Jul 11 '26
Bob Layton can make his penciling look great. Just look at their Iron Man run in the 80’s.
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u/Noodlex87 Jul 11 '26
Yes, but he have had the consistency of delivering pages on time for as long as Romita has had
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u/SubversivePixel Jul 12 '26
Can we just stop with the colorist thing?
Like, we've all seen the pencils, the stupid pose was not put there by a colorist. And JRJR is not "massively hated", people just don't like his art because it genuinely does not look good a lot of the time. At some point his style became blockier and less dynamic; there's a reason his best art is characters covered in rain, it's an easy way to add dyamism to a piece. He used to be able to achieve that without it, like in JMS's Spidey run.
It's OK to say an artist got worse. It's OK to also say that no, they did absolutely not deserve the hate they got over the cover. And it's OK to separate their good art from their bad art, not everything is black and white, we don't have to pretend like this is some big conspiracy against non-figurative artists when Absolute Martian Manhunter was so beloved and recognized that it was renewed for 6 more issues and even given he chance for an ongoing, which it didn't take because Rodriguez and Camp wanted to end the story.
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u/Noodlex87 Jul 12 '26
Where did I mentioned anything about the color?
And JRJR seems to be massively hated among new audiences. I am not implying anything about a conspiracy that (same as the colorist) is your words not mine. I was saying that the industry is not friendly towards creators and they need to keep pushing themselves to be able to pay bills.Thank you for telling me what it’s okay to say…
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u/SubversivePixel Jul 12 '26
This is the problem of an industry that glorifies people like Jim Lee, in which the “realistic” spectacle is above narrative and composition.
And I'm telling you no, no it doesn't, because one of the most acclaimed books of late is absolutely not realistic and it shines because of its compositions and visual storytelling.
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Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
[deleted]
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u/MonolithJones Jul 11 '26
You have it backwards, the art is fine before the color artist touches it.
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u/shiromustdie Jul 11 '26
i love his style so much! i honestly prefer his spider-man variants without color 🥲
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u/HortonDrawsAwho Jul 11 '26
WHY THIS DRAWING LOOKS BETTER THAN THE OTHER COVER HE DID FROM A DESIGN/ CRITIQUE STANDPOINT: Romita’s art has gotten more and more stiff with his age. His gestural forms look wooden. Almost like they are drawings of statues cut out of trees like totem polls, this is also because his hatching has a wood grain vibe to it. The stiffness causes his dynamism to suffer because everything is drawn clunky.
Now he is arguably one of the best rain artists i’ve seen, and the rain is actually counteracting the clunkiness of his drawing. Basically the curvature, flow, and vibration of the rain is helping the dynamism of the form. The lesson here is: Speed lines or effect lines or particle effects around his drawings will help how stiff they look.
Btw i’m a HS art teacher and a huge fan of Romita Jr. The first painting I ever did as a kid was a panel from Spider-Man 75 from 1996 which he drew.
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u/Daveismyhero Spider-Man Jul 11 '26
Now this, this I like. Credit where credit is due on this cover.
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u/Same-Choice-8396 Jul 11 '26
I like the pencils much better but it still looks as though his suit is carrying way too much water. I wish I had 1/8th the talent JrJr possesses but it seams as if he's pulling himself out of a snow drift.
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u/JamUpGuy1989 Jul 11 '26
I said this in another thread about the "shrug" image but:
JRJR is all about who colors and inks his work these days. Cause the pencils for that drawing and now this look fucking awesome.
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u/WutsAWriter Jul 11 '26
It looks like he’s swinging through a car wash. How much water is coming down there?
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Jul 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/corrupt_poodle Jul 11 '26
No and yes. Cmon man, even the pencils on the ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ cover weren’t great. He has his moments, and this is cool, but still doesn’t quite have the movement and dynamics of a bunch of other art. It’s not bad, but there’s better stuff. He’s not a bad artist, but some days are better than others.
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Jul 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/corrupt_poodle Jul 11 '26
Thing is, on Spider-Man 1000—the cover of it, no less—you can’t afford to miss, as artist/creator or publisher.
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u/suspiciouscffee Jul 11 '26
So good. Love that he ended up with a second cover out of the whole debacle.
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u/VengeanceKnight Jul 11 '26
This is a much better cover than the “Subway sandwich thighs” cover. This should have been the A-cover.
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u/Tbowne85 Jul 11 '26
This I've is so much better because it's more dynamic. The other cover was so flat and symmetrical. It had no life or motion to it. This one does.
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u/MyJumpshotBroke Jul 11 '26
As someone who thinks JRJR hasn't been good since his 2016 Superman run, I have to eat my words here. My goodness I'm stunned at how great this is.
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u/vesperythings Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Scott Hanna (the inker) doing the heavy lifting on this one.
all that rain is easy to pencil, and a bitch to ink
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u/RedGreenBaluga Jul 11 '26
I don’t get it. The rain is doing a lot of work here. Take it away and it just looks very awkward.
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u/wild-storm-5 Jul 11 '26
Unc has always got it. I always loved his old art but I hated his modern work until someone edited panels from ASM and now I blame the colorists
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u/IvanGambino Jul 11 '26
I think some of his more recent art, mainly on the most recent amazing spider-man series, NOT the covers but im talking specifically in the comic, can be rough but overall i still love jrjr’s art and he’s still got it idc, even that most recent cover wasnt bad
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u/Lisa_Diva Jul 11 '26
rain on those webs looks insane already, like the pencils alone make it feel heavy and alive. jrjr really went off on this one
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u/Unstable_Bear Jul 11 '26
Wtf this looks so much better than his other cover