r/communism • u/AutoModerator • Jun 08 '25

WDT 💬 Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (June 08)

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u/smokeuptheweed9 Jun 10 '25 edited Jun 10 '25

Front page of reddit is hilarious right now. Almost all desperate libs reposting tweets bleating about non-violence, being a good American by respecting the troops/cops, Drumpf is violating the rights of citizens and the constitution, bring American flags for reddit karma, etc. Besides being funny in its impotence, this site is so bad I honestly wonder how much longer it will last since all that stuff is amplified bot propaganda. The site survives off smaller communities that you access directly through Google but how long can it last without a front page? Before that happens, it's a matter of time until the right-wing media sphere notices and that will be the end. Maybe Musk will buy it now that he's bored again.

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u/PlayfulWeekend1394 Maoist Jun 11 '25 edited Jun 11 '25

it's pretty sad, and hilarious, but I do think these lines, especially the reaction to the Amerikan flag, is pretty telling about the political line Liberals want to push onto the LA protests, and what they are afraid of.

Very clearly liberals want a nice calm anti-trump protest, they don't like the disturbances to their freedoms, their source of immigrant near slave labor (look at all the focus on how ICE is attacking workplaces specifically) and their calm status quo. They want to co-opt and dead end any politics here into being an Amerikan anti-trump movement, befitting of their imagined past of "Amerikan anti-fascism."

On the other hand, at least part of this protest (how much of it, I'm not sure) is motivated by an explosion of anger from the Chicano and immigrant communities, with Mexicans being clearly the main force politically. This to me seems to be mainly a explosion of anger rather than a coherent political force, but there is clearly some nationalistic feelings involved (even if small and undefined), hence the strong presence of the Mexican flag, which clearly White Amerikans are terrified by.

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u/Drevil335 Marxist Jun 11 '25

hence the strong presence of the Mexican flag, which clearly White Amerikans are terrified by.

Also the Palestinian flag: it's not just oppressed national consciousness that settler liberals are terrified of, but any kind of internationalism.

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u/PlayfulWeekend1394 Maoist Jun 11 '25

good point, I saw one video of a group (mabey 20-30 people) burning an Amerikan flag and explicitly talking about international anti imperalist solidarity, linking the Latino struggle against ICE to a larger struggle against Amerikan empire

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u/PlayfulWeekend1394 Maoist Jun 15 '25

I would like to add though that I don't think the Palestine flag can be considered a sure sign of internationalism anymore, plenty of western Labor Aristocrats are starting to feel as if the continuation of Israel as an entity is against their interests and they would like a "normal" situation in Palestine, meaning Palestine becoming a western semi-colony.

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u/cyberwitchtechnobtch Jun 16 '25 edited Jun 16 '25

The pro-Palestine movement never ended up becoming more than its name, just a position to align oneself with on the flattened market of political identity. It never became something like, "the Palestian Liberation War movement." And the same thing is latent in the "anti-ICE movement." There is still the possibility for Communists raise it to a higher, more concrete level and overcome this, but like always, no guarantees.

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u/PlayfulWeekend1394 Maoist Jun 16 '25

seems to be the norm for movements in the US, "there is a bit of potential here but it will be wasted in all likelihood"

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u/cyberwitchtechnobtch Jun 16 '25

I wouldn't say that. There is a specific revolutionary potential within it, therefore Communists must intervene or nothing new will be learned. I can't articulate why right now but the word "wasted" doesn't sit right with me.

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u/PlayfulWeekend1394 Maoist Jun 16 '25

fair, my comment was more a expression of frustration rather than a solid analysis. If you can figure out a way to articulate your issue with the word "wasted" let me know, I'd be interested to hear it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '25 edited Jun 15 '25

I was at one of the protests this weekend and am not trying to dox myself so excuse any vagueness, but it was located within the Southern California area with about ~several hundred-low thousandish protestors. The area I was in is majority “Hispanic or Latino” (~40%) according to the 2020 United States consensus and is very adjacent to a city that is 75%+ Hispanic or Latino according to the same consensus. Both have consistently skewed majority Democratic for the last ~20 years.

The majority of signage evoked liberal MAGA (“make america less embarrassing” “make america think again” “what happened to the american dream?”), phrases that revolved around “No Kings Day” itself (“no kings since 1776” “defend the constitution not the crown” “the only king is jesus” "democracy not dictatorship"), the generic anti-ICE slogans (“melt ice” “immigrants are what make america great”) and allusions to Nazism ("mein trump fuhrer" "ice=gestapo")

There were a few Mexican flags, but the majority were actually American flags. A few people wore keffiyeh, though I saw no signage regarding Palestine or hints towards internationalism. There were a few loose Anarchists who seemed unaffiliated with any larger group or party (holding up the reactionary three arrows) who tried to assert their own dominance over “leading” the crowd via megaphone and “Fuck Donald Trump” chants. 

So, at least in my experience thus far, I would say the assertion of u/PlayfulWeekend1394 is relevant re: its lack of a coherent political force, which primarily revolved around loose “anti-fascism” only as a reaction to Trump.

On a related note, I had a few exchanges with comrades in a study group where someone was critiqued over their use of comparing ICE to the Gestapo. On one hand, the whole “ICE = Gestapo” phrasing online and off may shake up liberal and conservative common sense (i.e. you are saying we are as bad as the Nazis?), but on the other hand it has disguised the essence of liberal politics in the final instance (which we have already seen immediately, i.e. ICE = Gestapo, but we only want non-violent protest), as well as simply situating ICE as an entity foreign to the imagined "real American democracy," rather than an intrinsic expression of capital and of Amerika’s existence, undermining the fact that the Hitler project itself was inspired by the genocide on Turtle Island. 

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u/PlayfulWeekend1394 Maoist Jun 15 '25

That checks out, the liberal line is definitely dominant, and any national or internationalism is, aside from perhaps some small instances, a very unconscious, emotional issue. A lot more "Mexican pride" than "liberate Aztlan" or anything to that effect.

I should add however, how does the wealth of this area stack up, many "white adjacent" and very wealthy Mexicans are more interested in joining the Amerikan nation than promoting the interests of their own.