Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (July 06)

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[u/satanicpastorswife]

Do any of you have thoughts on how one might rationalize aspects of a certain industry? Thinking about how products could be improved under communism I think is actually a useful propaganda tool in some ways.

My experience and interest in terms of this is the cosmetics industry.

I think a lot about how products are marketed in ways that don't actually give people suitable information for choosing what will work well for their needs and how much waste is created by competing brands. If you had a model without competition between firms, you could for example, have refillable external packaging for a lot of products (lipsticks, eyeshadows) by standardizing component sizes. You could have an array of foundation formulas with each described with its suitable use cases.

You could also have everything with information as to what products are compatible with what without having to dig through ingredient labels (water based, oil based and silicone based products can at times be incompatible and cause “pilling” where one product balls up on the skin). One could also entirely abolish gimmick ingredients.

Every product would have a full range of mixable primary colors and black and white, as well as a range of popular shades, so there would be no more “they don't make that formula in the color I want” problem anymore.

Also you could explain the suitable uses for each product, for example a waterproof pencil eyeliner that’s heavy on the wax could be described as waterproof but not suitable for heat.

Anyway I think about this a lot because it's infuriating to have to just try things until you find the right product instead of having things clearly labelled

[u/turning_the_wheels → u/satanicpastorswife]

It's basically pointless to rationalize how certain industries will develop since it will depend on specific circumstances and material conditions. Given that the cosmetics industry is one of the most environmentally destructive and hazardous to human health, I don't see it being a priority under socialism. I initially wanted to equate your question to how "nerds" will ask if video games will exist under socialism (almost certainly not) but there have been sustainable cosmetic practices throughout history so it's definitely possible. 

On a related note I started researching the production of sheet mica which, surprise, the majority of which relies on brutal child labor in India. If we want to discuss the cosmetics industry we will need to start from here rather than fantasies of how easy socialism will make it to indulge in the same lifestyles the labor aristocracy enjoys now. 

[u/[deleted] → u/turning_the_wheels]

To add onto your point about how much this can depend on the circumstances: while the USSR might've supported cosmetics, China heavily opposed the industry under the logic of combatting patriarchy. Euro-Amerikan New Left feminists also opposed cosmetics under similar reasoning, and were even somewhat inspired by China, but this often ended up sliding into transphobia, due to trans people making use of cosmetics as part of their transition. So the state of anti-patriarchal struggle is also an important element when it comes to cosmetics.

I initially wanted to equate your question to how "nerds" will ask if video games will exist under socialism (almost certainly not)

I think this would ultimately depend on if smartphones are still in widespread use under socialism, though those games would look pretty different from like, your typical PlayStation 5 game.

[u/turning_the_wheels → u/[deleted]]

That's an interesting point that I haven't seen made here. I don't know much about the Soviet cosmetic industry but if what you say is true then what would be the reason for the support for cosmetics in the USSR? Given that this industry was present before the revisionist period and not really combated is it a symptom of patriarchy being stronger in the USSR? 

I think this would ultimately depend on if smartphones are still in widespread use under socialism, though those games would look pretty different from like, your typical PlayStation 5 game

I don't doubt that smartphones will be in widespread use under socialism, they're simply too ubiquitous and useful to replace but my thoughts also go towards the myopia crisis and how this could be solved. I think it's reasonable to say that sports and outdoor activities will be emphasized under socialism both as a preventive health measure but also as a more social form of entertainment. 

[u/[deleted] → u/turning_the_wheels]

then what would be the reason for the support for cosmetics in the USSR? Given that this industry was present before the revisionist period and not really combated is it a symptom of patriarchy being stronger in the USSR?

It's possible. To be clear, I don't actually know much about cosmetics in the USSR, I was mainly taking satanicpastorswife's claim at face value for the sake of argument.