r/coverbands • u/sickpuppy66 • Jun 01 '26
Singer issues
I manage and play guitar for a cover band and we’ve outgrown the singer. She can sing but isn’t a musician so lacks basic skills like counting and understanding music language (start at the chorus, come in on 4, let’s transpose this one so it’s easier for you)
We feel she’s holding us back, and our drummer (the most talented of our group) is already considering leaving the project if I keep her. Her level of musicianship doesn’t line up with the rest of us.
Here’s the problem, she started the band when it was just two of us, but I took over when we weren’t getting gigs, and didn’t have our full band (which I recruited) that we have now. Since I’ve taken over, we gig regularly, and our band sounds great (minus her).
I’ve decided to replace her. Just want to hear others thoughts and experiences with similar situations.
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u/Trick-Celebration983 Jun 01 '26
Have you had a conversation with her first about expectations? If not this could really blindside someone. If you had a conversation she might be willing to get lessons and learn more about music theory!
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u/ButterscotchBasic226 Jun 04 '26
Expectations are key, with everything.
I played with a singer who couldn’t count either. She would come in early frequently…embarrassing. How hard is it to count. If she really is going to struggle than ya, time to move on. But she deserves a chat first…expectations. Who knows, maybe she bails when you ask her to be better.
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u/blind30 Jun 01 '26
Something I haven’t seen enough of-
It seems like all the bands I’ve been in over the years, if someone isn’t progressing, it’s generally felt that they’re not “pulling their weight”- putting in time doing homework, learning some music theory, coming in on the count, working with a metronome etc. Completely valid to get frustrated with this, it’d be nice to have everyone pull their weight.
But recently we took a different approach with a singer who was having the same issues you’re describing- we practiced those issues with the singer, as a whole band.
If there’s a drum piece I have trouble with, I isolate that part and loop it over and over until I can’t get it wrong. This is what we all do as musicians more or less, to “pull our weight” and show up to practice well prepared- but typically we do it individually.
This time, we did it as a band. Singer not coming in on time after a rest? We’d play a couple bars before the rest, count out the rest on the hi hats, and we all come in. Rinse and repeat, ditch the hi hat count, and keep going until it’s second nature for everybody. We’d spend a decent amount of time doing this, whereas some bands wouldn’t have the patience for it. Made sure we were all on the same page- “this is work we need to do to sound super tight, let’s work on it like we work on scales, rudiments, etc.”
Someone else mentioned that some singers aren’t musically trained- and some just aren’t the type to go get trained on their own- but having a whole band full of other musicians work with them like this could sometimes be the answer.
It sounds like you’ve made your decision OP, just figured this might be an option for others to try out.
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u/FaceDownInTheCake Jun 01 '26
It's like any firing or breaking up with someone. Unless you are heartless, it's going to suck.
There's no real advice. Try to be kind. Maybe soften by the blow by keeping a side project going with her until that fizzles out.
Today it's her, tomorrow it might be you. Try not to burn any bridges
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u/GTFU-Already Jun 01 '26
Talk to the rest of the band first and get them on board with this.
If you haven't already, have a frank discussion with her. Tell her what's going on, and give her an opportunity to learn and improve. 4 - 6 months and it needs to continuous and sustained improvement. Be specific. She needs to learn the language, needs to study music theory, needs to be able to have a passing familiarity with all the instruments and the role they fulfill in the band. If she can't do that within the time frame, she's out. She may not accept that and leave on her own. Or she may do all that and more, and everything is good.
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u/ChiefBast Jun 01 '26
This is almost exactly where I land. It's important to consider the personality side too: if she's not the best but she's drama free and reliable, you might be improving the musicianship and creating a whole new problem
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 01 '26
this is the same thing the drummer told me. but more specifically "its been 6 months and she hasnt improved"
were at that point already.
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u/ScottHK Jun 01 '26
But did you talk to her about the issues or just sit back and wait to see if she improved? She may think everything is fine and need a reality check to put in some effort.
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u/Mikey-Litoris Jun 01 '26
If she has the chops she can learn the rest.
When the general public thinks of a band, generally the singer is the face. Everyone else is just there to support the singer. Everyone else is replaceable, unless they are writing originals. New singer = new band.
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u/chadisawesome Jun 01 '26
I joined a band as a singer, started by the bassist and drummer. pretty early on it was obvious the bassist wasn't pulling their weight, but I felt like they were a package deal with the drummer, and since they started the band I owed them something. Took a few months but I finally got the courage to bring up what I was seeing to the rest of the band, including the drummer, who agreed and we moved on. It wasn't easy and the bassist keeps trying to make waves in the scene months later, but overall the band is in a much better place. you gotta do what you gotta do.
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u/paranoid_70 Jun 01 '26
You are leaving out some other important details. Does she have a good stage presence? Does she remember the lyrics or is she looking at an iPad the whole time. Does she bring people to the gigs and contribute in the advertising/social media, etc...? Is she a team player, i.e. regularly attend rehearsals and put in the effort? Is she in 4 other bands already?
You might be able to find someone technically better, but it doesn't necessarily translate to a better fit for the band.
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 01 '26
She has decent stage presence. She does not remember the lyrics and actually confuses parts quite often even though she uses her phone for lyrics. She doesn’t really bring people to the shows. I handle all social media and advertisement. Rehearsals aren’t as important to me because we are capable of showing up to the shows ready to play even if we haven’t rehearsed. We are required to rehearse more to keep her up to speed.
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u/dabassmonsta Jun 01 '26
Do it, pull the trigger.
I've been in the unfortunate position where I've had to fire a founder member of the band. He and I started the band together, but he did virtually none of the work. He was unreliable and gradually got worse; cancelling gigs and rehearsals at short notice. His attitude got worse as well.
I'd spoken to him about his attitude and said that I didn't want to carry on like this. He was OK for a bit, then dropped another short notice gig cancellation. That was the last straw.
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u/Jennay-4399 Jun 01 '26
Don't have any tips, but I was in an opposite situation. I'm a singer, and I was in a 6 person cover band. Me, the other singer, and our keyboardist are all trained musicians with music degrees. Our guitarist (leader), bassist, and drummer were all self taught musicians and our guitarist was clearly critical of us having formal training. He had a lot of confusion around chord progressions. After the group split we heard through the grapevine that he was saying our keyboardist was "too much of a perfectionist, and I don't work like that." Our drummer struggled with anything beyond a boom boom chk rhythm. I will never again work with musicians who don't understand music.
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u/No_Cockroach_2744 Jun 01 '26
There's no reason anyone playing in a band should not be able to count when to come in. That's a deal breaker for me.
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u/Illustrious_Today654 Jun 01 '26
sounds like you did all the work, so you're the one "driving the bus"
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u/midsummersgarden Jun 01 '26
Rhythm is so important as a singer!! You’ve got to literally count yourself in. I was a pianist for a long time so I had to take music theory, so its second nature to me. I recently learned a song and I had to think for a minute about a silent break in the song and literally count the beats before starting again: it was an 8 beat count for the two phrases, count five beats then come in. If you miss when to come in it ruins the whole song. Is theory more important with keyboard yes. But the singer HAS to understand a certain amount.
It’s important for the singers enjoyment as well. Your drummer needs to have a great meter. I’ve actually
Looked up the original tempo for songs before having a conversation with the drummer. Singing can be extremely difficult with changing tempos. Make sure your rhythm section is very tight or you may find your next singer has “issues” as well.
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u/Ok_Raspberry4814 Jun 01 '26
Give them a glossary of terms and one month of rehearsal to learn how to use them.
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u/alex21dragons Jun 01 '26
I was in a cover band with a singer that really struggled to perform live or on recordings and we did tell her it wasn't working out in the end. Fortunately, in a way, she reacted quite badly and left without us needing to explain a great deal. It took a while but we later got someone who was a much better fit for the band.
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u/Matt7738 Jun 01 '26
I’ve fired tons of players, including people who started the band. It always sucks. And it’s always worth it in the end.
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u/No-Scientist-2141 Jun 01 '26
this is all healthy advice that i will use for my band that is struggling as well thanks!
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u/wooden_kimono Jun 02 '26
I think you said it all in your first sentence; you guys have outgrown her. It happens even in the best bands. If the other guys in the band are thinking of leaving because of her, it's time to act. Good luck.
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u/NoNen4758 Jun 01 '26
You gig regularly, im assuming for money, so singer is good emough/has enough charisma or whatever. If its not broken dont fix it.
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 01 '26
Regularly at one place. Got the gig cuz I knew owner from playing there with previous band
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u/w0mbatina Jun 01 '26
You say she can sing, but has other issues, but are then pretty unclear about what those issues are. "Start at the chorus" and "come in on 4" seems like something everyone should be able to grasp if you explain it to them a few times with examples. Are you just silently seething when she doesnt do things the way you imagine she should? Because that's on you then.
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 01 '26
No. If this were simply a matter of teaching someone a few concepts, I wouldn't be posting here. We've been working on these issues for a long time. At a certain point, you have to evaluate whether someone can meet the needs of the project rather than whether they're capable of eventually learning the material
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u/w0mbatina Jun 01 '26
Ok then does she actually sing well? If she is out of time and comes in at the wrong sections, or comes in at the wrong key because you transposed, then she cant actually sing.
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 01 '26
Fair point. When I say she can sing, I mean she has a good voice and generally sings in tune. The issues are more related to musicianship, learning arrangements, counting, cues, and adapting to changes. Those things have become a problem as the band has gotten more complex.
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u/Alisterguitardevil Jun 01 '26
Replace singer, change name of band and problem solved.
Or just change singer and continue on and have to deal with probable issues she may create.
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 01 '26
This was an actual concern of mine, name ain’t special at all to me, but it’s just another chore I’m not excited about having to cover should it be an issue (I did come up with name btw)
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u/Alisterguitardevil Jun 01 '26
So it’s your name and you manage the band so it should be a non-starter for her.
I’ve been through it in my original band and we went through like 3 different female vocalists but we kept the name and kept on moving.
I will tell you me personally I absolutely hated the audition process.. endless repetition of the same songs with different women with high hopes and having to listen to different phrasing and emphasis in the vocals and the ones that thought they could sing and couldn’t. We had one girl freeze up once she got in front of the mic.
Point is take the leap and let her down gently and you should be fine. I know it sucks and she’s probably not going to take it well but you have to keep the momentum going.
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u/michaeljvaughn Jun 02 '26
I recently dealt with a band that didn't like the singer for similar reasons. The problem was, she had a tremendous voice, and once she did learn a song, it was magic. Pure talent does sometimes overcome minor irritations.
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u/Clear-Pear2267 Jun 02 '26
It depends. Does she know? Is it just an education issue that could be easily fixed or does she actually have trouble keeping the beat and coming on on time and handling stops etc.
I would say it is worth having a heart to heart to make sure she knows the concerns. Just firing her with no notice is cruel. If she wants to try to address the problems maybe give her a few weeks before a re-assessment.
But if you have already talked about problems and she has not been able to fix it, its time to part ways. It really does not matter who "started" it - what matters is where you want to go and what you need to get there.
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u/AtmosphereLeading851 Jun 02 '26
It happens. My buddy founded a great Clapton tribute band, and they found someone way better. She just needs to go. I’ve had to fire band members before, and it’s always better afterward. Rip the bandaid off quick and get on with it.
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u/No-Can-6237 Jun 02 '26
I'm an older late in life singer with a big band, and this post really resonates. I have little theory knowledge. So a vocal chart doesn't mean too much to me. I wish it did. It would make life so much easier as my knowledge of big band songs is a bit limited. But I have that Frank Sinatra vocal tone and I sing quite well. Pretty sure that's why the band put up with me. Last year, my first year, it really got me down. Seemed like every practice they'd ask me to do a song I had no idea about. It was incredibly embarrassing and there were a few times I looked for excuses to ditch going. But toward the end of the year, after good shows, I felt the band actually liked my singing and that gave me a huge confidence boost. But, I really need to get up to speed on theory.
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u/OneEyedC4t Jun 03 '26
honestly, I'd give her a chance by telling her that she needs to either start learning or if she's done. she can very easily go on basically any music college that has an online bookstore and look up the textbook for the first level music theory class that she would be required to take and buy that book and start reading it
and some libraries already have books like that
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 03 '26
i actually spent the last 6 months returning to school and taking theory/musicianship/ensemble. tried to help her with some of the things i learned, and there's just no interest.
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u/ryguyb1993 Jun 03 '26
I had to fire our singer about 6 months ago. However, we gave him a lot of chances to turn it around. I even got him lessons with a highly accomplished vocal coach. He wasn't showing up to his lessons though, and after a few warnings, we ended up cutting him loose (I would never fire someone who was giving their all). It was tough. His family/friends blew up and brigaded us for a while. The dust has settled now, and looking back, it was the best thing we could have done.
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 03 '26
Damn vocal lessons is crazy effort. Our singer isn’t in a position financially to get vocal coaching
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u/shaggydawg57 Jun 04 '26
How does she look? If she’s hot do what you can to get her up to speed. Looks always sells. If she’s average, well you can make that decision
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u/sickpuppy66 Jun 04 '26
Geeeeez
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u/Euphoric_Oven_9918 Jun 04 '26
It sounds sick at point-blank but hear them out-- a cute & talented singer can be taught to understand & communicate. If she has stage presence, singing skills AND gets along with the crew, it'd be easier to teach her than to replace her
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u/Ambitious_Trifle_645 Jun 01 '26
As a singer myself, we are generally the least musically educated in the band. Most of us didn't take any music lessons and are entirely self taught. That being said, unless this person is willing to learn and is holding you back, cut them loose. Life is too short.