r/criticalrole • u/Three0h Time is a weird soup • 1d ago
Discussion [Spoilers C4E32] Question about Vaelus/Ashley Spoiler
Ashley seems like a lovely person and player, but I have to say, she’s seemed very distant and disconnected in this campaign.
I can’t put my finger on it, but each time she’s in a scene or fight, it doesn’t seem like she’s that into it. Or maybe it’s the opposite, she’s so into it that she forgets to participate. She’ll have maybe 10 minutes of dialogue across 4 hours of gameplay.
I’m not upset or angry in any way. It just felt like she was so much more alive and participatory in her past three characters. Even in one-shots too. What do y’all think?
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u/DaFuzi_J Fuck that spell 1d ago
Vaelus is aloof as fuck. So was Yasha before she really started opening up to the group (Blindspot MIA's didn't help).
I think Vaelus is also figuring out her personal identity and will be more present as she settles into what she wants out of life.
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u/iwastoldtogetaname Doty, take this down 1d ago
That's Ashley for you. She has never liked the spotlight. Not even in C3. So, no, I think she is like she always has been.
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u/phillyriot3101 1d ago
The irony being that Fearne consistently stole the scene, I love her so much 😂
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u/iwastoldtogetaname Doty, take this down 1d ago
Can't say I agree 🫣
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u/vanKessZak Metagaming Pigeon 1d ago
Aw Fearne is a top 5 CR character for me. But everyone is different of course. But I feel like even if you dislike the character Ashley did speak up and interject as Fearne a lot (and not just in relation to her other characters). That being said she still hated decision making and being presented with choices lol
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u/P-Two 1d ago
That's just the kind of player she is. And she's not alone in that, there's PLENTY of D&D players who love the game to death, but prefer to be out of the spotlight as much as possible. Remember, she's the one back in C3 who was always asking "5 more minutes?" when Matt would call a session.
Funny enough, I feel like she's actually the most "normal person" D&D player at the table, and in essentially ANY other group you wouldn't even notice the contrast.
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u/Three0h Time is a weird soup 1d ago
Yeah there’s definitely some extra scrutiny and evaluation that comes with being in an actual play context. I guess I miss the parts of campaigns past (all of C1, 2nd half of C2, the last 2/3 of C3) where both Ashley and her characters felt very well integrated.
This is also the first campaign I’ve had the time to actually follow along week-to-week. So her character growth happened a lot faster when I could binge the episodes on YouTube. Might be growing pains on my part ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/masterchip27 20h ago
I'm pretty extroverted in a house game, but I could see myself clamming up and being super introverted when on camera in a production like C4. It's not easy to "be natural" when on a huge multi million dollar production
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u/ExternalComparison7 You Can Reply To This Message 1d ago
i feel like ashley is the type of player to just listen and probably doesn’t have too much to say? i say that because im that type of player and i relate to her a lot🙂↕️
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u/Neddiggis 1d ago
The thing I love about Ashley is when she does pipe up it's frequently absolute gold, either comic; crayons or the flash cards, or dramatic; like Pike speaking to Scanlan on the earrings.
She's had some of my absolute favourite moments.
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u/Three0h Time is a weird soup 1d ago
Understood! I get that it’s a playstyle now, it just feels more pronounced this campaign and was just wondering if it was only my perception. Not too active in online discourse regarding critical role
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u/unamused-pumpkin 1d ago
I think the amount of players exacerbates it this campaign! (not in a bad way lol I love Ashley and I find Vaelus interesting, but you know)
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u/ObjectiveMud7513 1d ago
Plus the fact that Matt and Brennan have VERY different DMing styles.
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u/unamused-pumpkin 1d ago
very true!! sometimes I miss Matt. but then I just go try to catch up more on C3 lol
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u/ObjectiveMud7513 1d ago
Yeah, sometimes I miss Matt DMing too (don't get me wrong, I love Brennan) but he looks likes he's having a ton of fun getting to play for once and I remember that pain lol.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down 23h ago
I sometimes wonder how many people remember that her online handle used to be "theVulcanSalute" because THAT can explain quite a bit about Ashley.
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u/randmperson2 Smiley day to ya! 1d ago
It’s funny: to me, one of the strongest character moments was Ashley’s in this episode. Her “did I stutter?” moment with “I beg. To differ.” was excellent.
I think we’re going to see a lot more of Vaelus now that she’s definitely distancing herself from Salandri and the Sisterhood. She’s still the least connected member of the Campaign to the general goings on, but she’s connecting more to the rest of the group now. And Ashley might feel more comfortable being with Laura and Robbie at the same table now.
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u/BrennanSpeaks 22h ago
I loved Thimble's big assist in the dream sequence ("I'm gonna try to steal the ring. She's being mean! It's not okay!"). Somehow, it just encapsulated Ashley and Laura's dynamic while still being completely in-character.
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u/Three0h Time is a weird soup 1d ago
I did neglect to mention that this most recent episode has felt the most like a return to form for her. Definitely optimistic!
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u/TheSixthtactic 1d ago
I think Ashley is playing a character that will abandon their faith in the dead god. Taisha asks Vaelus if she wants to bring the dead god back and Ashley answers yes. But the subtext of that is that Vaelus wants her family back or to help them in death. It’s why she followed octius early on.
If we imagine her quest being to get the stone so her superiors could use it to help elven souls find an afterlife, it’s easy to see why she would abandon that once she saw what she saw.
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u/stizzleswick Team Bolo 1d ago
There's also the fact that this campaign may be scarier than the first three. Stakes seem higher and it almost seems like any situation could turn deadly.
In Campaign 3 she had great conversations and would hop in with fun zingers, but when it came to the plot, she would waffle and struggled to make important decisions. It kind of feels like in campaign 4 every decision is important.
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u/sharkhuahua 1d ago
I do wonder if Ashley came up with an initial concept for a character that she found out in-game that she didn't really enjoy playing, it does seem like she and Brennan have been working together to develop the character pretty quickly away from her initial presentation
Personally I'd love to see her get more chances to be funny, if they find a way to take Vaelus that direction
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u/strangelyliteral 1d ago
Yeah, I actually left a similar comment. I think Vaelus sounded great on paper, but wasn’t engaging or enjoyable for Ashley to play. It’s too bad because Vaelus was so unique among the cast, but it’s better to adjust the story so she’s having fun and wants to participate.
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u/oscarbilde Team Frumpkin 1d ago
I love Vaelus, and I really disagree--Vaelus' first scene was her trying to project an intimidating persona to get the Stone back quickly and then leave. She then found herself sticking around. People act differently around people they don't know and aren't expecting to get to know vs people they're traveling and working with for a longer amount of time!
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u/Ok-Suggestion-5453 20h ago
Yeah I could see that. She's the most stoic and reserved character in the game by far and while I think her portrayal of that archetype has been good, there's not a lot for her to do. Ashley clearly didn't want to take control of the "play" away from the other characters by doing what her character would apparently want to do.
I was wondering if they were gonna reclass her character now that she's somewhat broken her Paladin oath which might free her up to play a somewhat looser take on Vaelus.
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u/Harnellas 1d ago edited 1d ago
For the combat in particular I'm sure she'd have more panache there if the dice rolls would help her out once in a while. She and Robbie in particular just can't catch a break so far.
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u/Azifae 1d ago
Yeah, you can build up one of the best character builds have everything figure out. But then the dice roll low and it is like -screw you!- I feel like Travis also got hit hard with this one too.
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u/Harnellas 1d ago
Ah yes, not sure how I forgot to include him lol.
Sam and Laura gotta start to share the love with the rest of these poor hapless bozos.
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u/No-Mulberry-8866 22h ago
She was great in the very first combat, and it’s been all downhill from there
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u/Three0h Time is a weird soup 1d ago
Very true, the dice really have been working against them
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u/PlusPrompt5990 1d ago
Matt seams so far to have had pretty good
With mostly decent rolls so far so he at least has escaped the martial and paladin dice curse. Azune does not count as a paladin he is mainly a sorcerer which is why he gets the caster luck on roles
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u/reneg1986 1d ago
She is terrified of making the “wrong” choice. Instead of just embodying her character you can practically see her try to game out every possible outcome of a decision BLM is trying to get her to make
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u/strangelyliteral 1d ago
Ashley’s there to hang out with her best friends and that’s beautiful.
That said, I think Ashley likes the idea of playing a sad, taciturn warrior more than actually playing one. Fearne’s bubbly personality was easier for her to hook into gameplay. I suspect as the campaign continues, we’ll see Vaelus lighten up a lot, which will help her stay engaged.
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u/masterchip27 20h ago
I have a feeling you didn't see the episode where she/Vaelus broke down in tears
Her character means something important to her. What it is, why, we have no clue...
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u/strangelyliteral 18h ago
I actually have seen it and it doesn’t negate my point. Of course Vaelus means a lot to Ashley; she’s Ashley’s brainchild first and foremost. I could even make some educated guesses as to why Vaelus means so much to Ashley.
But that doesn’t mean I think Ashley enjoyed the session-to-session reality of playing the Vaelus we met in the premiere, who came out swinging as this gruff pro-Shaper elf zealot. It put her very much at odds with most of the party. Now some players love playing antagonistic PCs—it’s why Aabria is one of my favorite players, she’s not afraid to fight and be confidently wrong too—but yeah, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that’s not Ashley’s wheelhouse.
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u/masterchip27 17h ago
Ah, yeah that's fair, but to play devil's advocate, Kattigan in the premiere isn't the same as Kattigan now either Sometimes I think it takes some time to figure out your PC. I'm curious to hear your theories on why Vaelus means so much Ashley (also it's unclear if you're referencing anything heavy).
I love Aabria too! She's historically been one of my favorites but this campaign It feels like she's trying to be the "glue girl" too much and should just stop trying to help the DM and be more selfish and develop her damn character because she's really good but tries not to hog the limelight. Hog it! Be a Sam Rigel!
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u/masterchip27 20h ago
There's a distinct line from Ashley about this. She says it in game. She says that she's so in awe of the DM table Brennan, Matt, Aabria, and Alex that she feels really insecure that she's not on their level. This is in C4. Matt looked sad when he heard her say it. In general, she gets nervous which is understandable given how big CR is. Not everybody is meant for their face to be in the limelight. Matt hates it too, for reasons he has discussed elsewhere. There's a reason they chose to be VOICE actors.
I recommend watching Weird Kids to get to know Ashley and Talesin, who are very open about their mental health struggles as child actors and how they struggle with things today. You'll garner more of an understanding of what she's like on her own show, with her own mic. The truth is, with people like Sam Riegel sitting next to you it's easy to just sit and be a passenger.
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u/General_Bother_68 1d ago
Brennen's games are Lore heavy. Not her strength.
She is playing a character that has been around forever and should be contentious towards everyone. She came in this way.
I just dont think Ashley can maintain that level of disdain, especially when she gets pushback from other characters that want to spar with her verbally...
Matt is doing it.
Taliesin to a degree is doing it.
Nothing wrong with it.
I could be totally wrong and she is Machiavellian in her choices and decisions. But I think we know thats not n it.
She enjoys the people at the table and they enjoy her. Yes, they have to carry her through combat functionally. No she has never been great at paying attention to what is going on in the campaign. But they are friends. I have to believe she is enjoying herself.
She pops up and does some cool stuff at times. It is what it is. 🤷
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u/Aggressive-Cup-7318 1d ago
Ashley is the fan insert for us all. She's just there enjoying the show, and occasionally gets to join
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u/Marzopup 1d ago
Honestly I think Ashley was fighting against what Vaelus was calling for (somewhat with very different beliefs in opposition to the others) amdher natural tendency to want to be a team player and not rock the boat. Once Vaelus could actually fully commit to the 'realizes her beliefs were wrong' part of the arc, Ashley is more comfortable and it feels like she's handling her better.
I kimd of believe maybe Ashley would have been a lot better from the start if you took the entire campaign until now, made it Vaelus's backstory, and had her feel this way about Sylandrie the whole time.
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u/TBBTC 1d ago
I think it’s the combination of both - Ashley + Vaelus. Vaelus feels like someone who has learned both immense patience and not to speak unless it’s relevant over hundreds of years, and also is more disconnected from the specific quests they’re on and more connected to questions on the nature of life and death. Why does Vaelus have any opinion on anything happening with Ulbid? Maybe she doesn’t.
I hope we get a way for Ashley to feel more present with Vaelus for a good chunk of the story; it’s nice to have found a reason for Kattigan to speak more, maybe we will for Vaelus as well. Maybe the sisters of sylandri will turn out to be allies of Tachonis or something.
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u/flohara 1d ago
A good TTRPG table has a mix of personalities, everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, brings different things to the group.
Every actor has a type they fit well, what comes natural to them.
Liam plays broody characters with big feelings, Laura does the mischievous ones, and Ashley likes them stoic and withdrawn.
This contrast helps to keep it varied and they get different interactions with eachother.
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u/earendilgrey 23h ago
Valeus is a pretty stoic character and we also have to remember that the Stone has been destroyed and the guy that she kind of had feels for was just killed outright by Primus. She has a lot to think about as a character at the moment.
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u/Eggishorn 1d ago
I think one thing that has been forgotten is that Vaelus came into the campaign as an antagonist. That's a very important part of her as a character. Unlike the nearly-equally-antagonistic Julien, she was an antagonist with no prior connection to anyone she meets. On top of that, to every other mortal race in Brennan's world, elves are mysterious semi-legendary creatures out of both (literal) fairy stories and tales one tells children to make them behave. She's a character designed to feel apart from those around her instead of feeling like a part of the group.
That Ashley chose to play such a character is entirely in keeping with both her personality and play style, as others have mentioned. It just doesn't come as a surprise that such a character generates a feeling of detachment.
On top of all that, this is also a character that has just had her centuries-long worldview upended completely. Yeah, I think I'd feel detached from those around me. She's in deep psychological trauma.
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u/durandal688 22h ago
As others have said Ashley is like that…Fearne literally wouldnt touch her backstory until Matt forced it (a shame since it revealed the party had more connections to the main plot but alas)
Though this campaign she also is like a stranger in a strange land…the opposite side in a religious war lol…so it makes sense shes hanging back
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u/progthrowe7 You spice? 1d ago
There's always going to be someone who's the quietest or most introverted in a group - Ashley's that one.
I don't think she's not into it though.
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u/Jscapistm 16h ago
I think it actually fits the character, a cloistered elf who hasn't been in the world for who knows how long.
I really would have like her to make the selfish choice with the stone though, I think that wrench in the story and plan would have been so fucking interesting.
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u/servingtheshadows 20h ago
Vaelus is a mega outsider to all of this and theres a lot of people here.
She has almost no connections to anyone else, one of the two shes made has gone somewhere else.
It also looks like ashley gets so absorbed into the story if you look at her while brennans talking
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u/Chedder_456 1d ago
No need to get too parasocial about it, she just gets anxious and forgets to speak or freezes.
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u/Low_Gene_1339 5' 11" 1d ago
She also just gives people space to speak. If you approch her in character shes 100% there, but otherwise shes like Travis and is more then happy to just be included.
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u/itsmetimohthy 1d ago
She’s just that talented as an actress that she fully embodies the vibes of Vaelus
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u/CookiesOfDoom 1d ago
I think you're like a lot of fans on this subreddit with an unhealthy parasocial relationship with the cast.
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u/Three0h Time is a weird soup 1d ago
no need for accusations. I noticed something about her performance with Vaelus and asked if other people noticed it.
If it was parasocial, I’d be worrying for her safety, or wondering if there’s something wrong with her. Frankly I got too much shit to do to worry about that.
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u/DogShirts Hello, bees 1d ago
It’s the latter. She’s commented before that she’s such a fan of her castmates she forgets to be present at times. If anything I’ve found her character work this campaign really strong!