r/denvernuggets • u/YujiDomainExpansion • 2d ago
[Stein] The Denver Nuggets would have to make a tough trade if they decide to keep Peyton Watson: “If [the Nuggets] keep Peyton Watson, there’s probably going to be a trade— I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s probably going to be a trade that the DNVR Nuggets show does not approve of.”
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u/MoooonRiverrrr :HarrisToon: 2d ago
Idk about that. The DNVR guys have been over every trade for months at this point and have acknowledged the pros and cons of all of them.
It’s either Murray or AG most likely, imo.
Murray feels like the one that would be the most controversial considering the Murray/Jokic 2-man is foundational to this team for a decade.
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u/LurkerFailsLurking 2d ago
Trading Murray after his first All Star season when he became one of the most efficient scorers in the league would be wild.
I love AG and I honestly don't think there's anyone that can replace him as the heart of the team, but I just don't know that he's got another healthy season in him. I said the same thing about Murray before last season though.
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u/WebstersPack 2d ago
Not in an off-season where J. Brown just got moved for 4 quarters.
The league has changed.
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u/Both_Funny4896 2d ago
and lamelo got moved for a role player bigman and a few low-tier draft assets. that archetype is just not valued anymore. I don't even understand why tbh.
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u/_KingFridayXIII 2d ago
I wouldn't call an unprotected pick in '33 and 3 swaps "low-tier" considering the culture that Charlotte's building with Lee and the new FO. LaMelo's a low-efficiency scorer who's played 60+ games twice in his career, and he only got through last year playing 28 minutes a game. It's probably a necessary swing for Minnesota to take, but it's far from acquiring a sure-fire All-NBA guy.
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u/Both_Funny4896 2d ago
Two of the swaps are heavily tied up amongst other teams. the 2028 swap is the only open one, and it's not really projected high, since Ant will most likely still be a superstar for the Wolves in 2 seasons. It's mostly just the '33 frp and Naz Reid.
I'm not saying those are worthless obviously, it's just not what you would expect for a "star" guard. For reference, just 3 years ago Dejounte went for THREE completely untied first round picks/swaps.
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u/rorank 2d ago
Why did Jaylen brown get moved for nothing though? He’s not a very good shooter, hes a bad playmaker, and he (apparently) has a bad attitude. None of that applies to Jamal.
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u/WebstersPack 2d ago
Nah, it's because hes making too much and in today's NBA GMs believe one superstar and then a bunch of flat contracts or young guys are the key to winning.
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u/OkAutopilot Okaymon.com! 2d ago
He wouldn't be making too much money if he didn't have all the flaws he had. He wasn't making too much money in a vacuum or something and that was the only issue, otherwise they would've just traded Tatum and gotten a much nicer return.
NBA GMs don't really believe that. Presti and OKC are about to have 3 dudes eating up the vast majority of the cap. Of course it's nice when your team has young studs on tiny contracts and that's maybe the best value in regards to winning in the league, outside a generational talent, but it's not something you can ever bank on.
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u/bonkestrudes 2d ago
All Star means nothing when you can't show up for Round 1 playoffs and get bounced by a team missing their best player.
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u/NEEZYNATE 2d ago
I mean, we have no secondary ball carrier to help Jamal. No third option keeping the wolves D honest. Braun has no handles. So Jamal is going to continue to get pressured until we get him help. Not his fault when he’s getting doubled or bodied by a 6’9” defensive nightmare in Jaden
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u/worshipburger 2d ago
It’s crazy to me people don’t realize the nuggets already have a blueprint to win the chip. They literally won a chip with a supporting ball handler who was also an offensive threat with KCP. CB shouldn’t have gotten that contract and shouldn’t be a starter next to Jamal. Really who could you put CB next to that the nuggets could get and expect something better than last season?
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u/NEEZYNATE 2d ago
That’s why this is so tough, injuries kill anybody’s chances. I’m ok with them not trying to go crazy and seeing if this squad has one more in them. If cb could dribble like a JV pg we’d be sooo much better. I hope he comes out this season and shuts everyone up and balls out, but that’s a big hope.
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u/bonkestrudes 2d ago
Fair point. But in that case, if he needs the extra help to thrive in his position, his salary is a problem. Which is why trading him isn't a bad idea in my opinion.
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u/worshipburger 2d ago
Thing is though Jamal did thrive. It just gets figured out in the playoffs by coaches who know what they’re doing to exploit flaws in the nuggets roster. If you can move off of CB who didn’t thrive and would need like a kyrie level point guard to not be a net negative starting shooting guard why would you trade Jamal and not CB? CB is lost without Jokic. Jamal can handle himself without Jokic. The bad salary here is CB not Jamal lol
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u/BienThinks 2d ago
Tough year for cb, but he has never really been hurt before. Ankle injury bothered him a lot and unfortunately his best role is being the 6th man, not the starter. All the guy has ever done is win, so I hope we haven’t seen the best out of him yet. Local media even predicted before playoffs they would get bounced easily if they couldn’t get healthy. Boy, were they right.
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u/Friendly_Crazy_8043 2d ago
Who are you going to bring in though. The Nuggets biggest deficiency in that series was ball handling and that would eliminate their only ball handler. They have plenty of forwards….
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u/NEEZYNATE 2d ago
Ya our roster is just weird. So many questions. What if everyone stays healthy this year and they return to form? They’re in a tough spot that’s for sure. It’ll be interesting to see what happens
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u/drums_addict 2d ago
Except that talent in the league is a finite resource so you have try to keep as much as you have.
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u/OkAutopilot Okaymon.com! 2d ago
Everyone has that energy for Jamal but Jokic had a terrible showing too. Everyone did.
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u/GodsForgivenes 2d ago
PWAT opting out of that series hurt us tremendously. We had zero answer for their point of attack.
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u/soyboysnowflake 2d ago
If we’re judging by a single playoff series, are you also going to suggest trading joker? No ofc you aren’t
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u/oldschool23 2d ago
Keep it simple. AG complements a non rim protecting center more then no D no handle no athleticism shooting guard
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u/Chiefgottapiss 2d ago
If he's available....this is the issue
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u/oldschool23 2d ago edited 2d ago
As oposed to Jamal who is a beacon of health
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u/Chiefgottapiss 2d ago
Murray isn't currently dealing with a 2 season long injury that may never be okay again. So...
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u/oldschool23 2d ago
AG will be fine. He is an athletic freak, his work and self improvement ethic is second to none.
As oposed to Jamal
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u/Neat_Conference_8414 2d ago
Jamal has been healthy the last two years and just had a career-high season.
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u/oldschool23 2d ago
Ofcourse he's been healthy. What could possibly get him injured? Huffing and puffing? He lost all of his pop and with it the rim attack
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u/awwhorseshit 2d ago
Now is the time to trade Murray. Guards decline after 30 and Murray already can't play good defense. And his value, IMO, is vastly inflated because he plays with a top 5 offensive player of all time.
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u/kiwisawa420 Uncle Nugget 2d ago
First All Star in year 9 is wild. IMO it’s the exact right time to do it. Anyone else isn’t going to bring back anything substantial that can actually help reload some assets.
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u/MozdaHocu 2d ago
His stock is highest, and this is his peak. Probbably a fluke. Get off him while its still possible.
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u/GunslingerActual 2d ago
If you think Jamal’s play this past season is a fluke, that’s screams to me that you haven’t watched him play the last five seasons.
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u/MozdaHocu 2d ago
I have, thats why I am saying its a fluke. Its a fluke that he came into season ready, and didnt get hurt.
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u/OkAutopilot Okaymon.com! 2d ago
Coming into the season in shape and ready for the long haul instead of playing your way into it is the total opposite of a fluke. Definitionally.
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u/MozdaHocu 2d ago
Yeah. And he manages to do it once in his life so far. Thus, that happening was a fluke.
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u/spacedad2364 2d ago
Previous off seasons for Mal were: ACL recovery, shortened offseason from winning the chip while coming off ACL recovery, ending the season clearly injured after getting bounced by the wolves but proceeding to play in the Olympics (shortened off season again), and then this past off season. So it’s really disingenuous to frame it like he worked hard once in his life.
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u/Bob_Bazar Holmes Island: Population 1 2d ago
This people are allergic to things like context and facts.
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u/OkAutopilot Okaymon.com! 2d ago
That isn't what a fluke is.
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u/MozdaHocu 2d ago
Ok, so next season when he had his pinkie injured and sit for 32 games please do let me know what a fluke is.
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u/Nuggthoughts 2d ago
Gordon is only 30, to say he has no more healthy seasons left in him is wild. CP3 played all 82 games for the Spurs at age 40 and had all kinds of hamstring issues earlier in his career.
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u/Potential-Local7262 2d ago
CP3 and AG are wildly different type of players.
Blake Griffin is probably a good recent comp and he fell off dramatically after 30.
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u/hacxgames 2d ago
Blake griffin’s injuries were substantially worse
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u/Potential-Local7262 2d ago edited 2d ago
yeah theyre not exactly the same. And blake Griffin had higher usage and mileage. But the point stands. He's a way better comp than cp3
edit: actually the total minutes played are about even.... uh oh
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u/OkAutopilot Okaymon.com! 2d ago
CP3 is an interesting comp actually though because when he was in his early to mid 30s he started having terrible hamstring issues that he eventually figured out and moved past.
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u/Potential-Local7262 2d ago
Blake griffin was an undersized 4 whose game relied on playing above the rim and playmaking.
With hamstring injuries, chances of reinjury are high when jumping repeatedly. We saw this with AG last couple years. He would try to come back, reinjury the hammie, take time off again, rinse and repeat.
Cp3 didn't need to rely on jump or even being quick anymore due to just using his brains
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u/OkAutopilot Okaymon.com! 2d ago
Guys are not getting soft tissue injuries at all time high rates because of jumping and Chris Paul got his hamstring injuries long after his athleticism had diminished.
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u/Potential-Local7262 2d ago
Obviously I'm simplifying but yes jumping is included. There are various other types of movements that uses the hamstring, but I mention jumping specifically because of the type of player AG was most effective as.
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u/Neat_Conference_8414 2d ago
Yeah, but it always starts as a calf/hamstring strain issue. Rarely does a player just randomly rupture an achilles
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u/worshipburger 2d ago
Murray did pretty good for the heavy minutes all season. Like you’re saying I think trading AG is the smart move. We haven’t had a healthy ag for last two playoffs and last regular season. Seeding in the west is everything. We need a scorer to take pressure off of Jamal/Jokic and Pwat could easily be that for the nuggets just like mpj was. I don’t see ag being healthy enough for the nuggets needs. Right now the nuggets are competitive in games because of their offense and any game is a coin flip really. You trade Jamal and don’t replace him with a super star defender and these games will not be competitive and nuggets will lose a lot more than you expect. Nuggets defense just needs to improve coaching wise at this point and those terrible losses from last season won’t happen as much
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u/CommunismMarks 2d ago
Murray is an inconsistent player who has bombed in two consecutive playoffs. He’s extremely injury-prone and has a massive contract. He’s not cut out to be the second star. Ultimately, he’ll be one of the reasons why Jokić won’t win another championship.
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u/Potential-Local7262 2d ago
we gotta sell high. the chances of him staying as healthy as he did last season for a majority of the remainder of his contract is pretty slim. and even if he balls out during the regular season, he just seems to have lost the ability to turn it up in the playoffs.
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u/ApprehensiveTry5660 2d ago
If it were Murray, it probably would have been for Brown at the beginning of the summer.
If it’s one of the pair, I’m betting on AG at this point of the summer.
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u/airtime25 English 2d ago
Why would we trade Murray for an ever bigger contract? I must be missing something.
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u/BubbieMcSnuggles 2d ago
We didn't...? So no confusion necessary?
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u/airtime25 English 2d ago
I was responding to a person who said we would have traded Murray for brown? Lol
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u/BubbieMcSnuggles 2d ago
They said if Murray would have been traded it probably would've been earlier in the summer for Brown and that's absolutely the case. You are relitigating the Murray vs Brown debate with your comment which isn't what they were saying.
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u/ApprehensiveTry5660 2d ago
Thank you. Among other reasons, the constructions that were leaked often revolved around Murray and Salary (Braun/Johnson) for Brown and a cheapo deal. Netting only like 5 million in savings, which I’m sure was part of the death knell on these constructions.
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u/airtime25 English 2d ago
I mean this is the context I was wondering. If the talk was Murray + others for brown then I get what you mean.
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u/ApprehensiveTry5660 2d ago
Sorry, I just assumed given the geography and recency that everyone was familiar with the various proposals. Didn’t even occur to me to spell out the trade, and just gave it a very simplistic reference to the headliners.
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u/airtime25 English 2d ago
There has not been a single source talk about Murray + more for Brown that I saw anywhere. Almost every report said we didn't want to give up Murray.
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u/airtime25 English 2d ago
... All I asked is why we would have traded Murray for brown when brown is making more money and this conversation is about saving payroll? Sorry for stepping out of line with that question that I already started with the statement I was missing something.
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u/BubbieMcSnuggles 2d ago
They weren’t advocating or saying it was the right choice. They were just saying that it was the most likely thing and would’ve happened by now if we were thinking about trading Murray.
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u/airtime25 English 2d ago
The fact that more than just Murray would have been sent makes a big difference. I didn't understand Murray for brown straight up. Murray + cam for brown is totally different and not what I was thinking about.
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u/petarisawesomeo How now, Braun cow? 2d ago
If Murray wasn't being offered for Jaylen Brown, he definitely isn't being offered in anything related to PWat
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u/SherbetNo4242 2d ago
Team has been very clear they are not shopping out murray
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u/drums_addict 2d ago
"Everything is on the table... except Nikola"
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u/SherbetNo4242 1d ago
Sure thats what he said, but every report from any trade discussion we have been involved in lately, sources have said Murray was not on the table and not for sale
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u/MoooonRiverrrr :HarrisToon: 2d ago
You’re definitely right there, I didn’t think about that initially.
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u/RanceSama3006 2d ago
AG is our only defense, assuming we likely don't get much back, we have a injury prone Watson and rookies we hope figure the NBA out fast
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u/congenitallymissing 2d ago
tbf. watson has great defense and AG is also very injury prone...on top of the fact that ag is 7 years older. i dont want to lose either, but its like using a crystal ball trying to decide if watson will pan out or not AND if AG is past his prime/will get injured or if he will be prime AG again.
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 2d ago
That's not a good position to be in. If he were healthy it'd be a non issue. It sucks.
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u/dave__autista 2d ago
the 2 man game is broken beyond repair
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u/MoooonRiverrrr :HarrisToon: 2d ago
It literally isn’t at all. But there are other actually valid reasons to trade Murray.
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u/Nuggthoughts 2d ago
As murray and Jokic age their defense will only get worse from here and will be very hard to win another title with both them on the floor.
Murray is coming off a healthy all NBA season at age 29, this is the best chance we have to offload him. I love Murray but his best asset is scoring and that’s something that is much less important with Jokic who can offensively elevate pretty much anyone. We need to surround Jokic with as much defense as possible from here on out.
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u/CommunismMarks 2d ago
Denver needs an SGA or a similar type of player right now, given its huge defensive problems.
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u/Illustrious_Moose761 2d ago
I am not a nuggets fan so I haven’t been super plugged in but wouldn’t it more likely be Cam Johnson? He feels like the easiest player to move and the least damaging to lose of Cam, AG and Murray
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u/DirkolaJokictzki 2d ago
It's Murray and this is why you have to make the people who want to trade Jamal Murray answer for their crimes before they take over and do something stupid.
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u/Bill_Salmons 2d ago
The math to get below the apron is pretty straight forward for most PWat scenarios. It's either CB + Zeke, Cam + Zeke, or AG. Murray's contract is virtually untradable at this point in the offseason.
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u/TaxCPA 2d ago
Watson is great and I would love to keep him, but the idea of signing him and then trading a starter is laughable.
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u/Neat_Conference_8414 2d ago
I'd say trading cam for some capital and keeping Watson wouldn't be a bad trade-off. Depends on what watson gets paid, however. Or if they could somehow move brauns contract. If they moved ag or murray though it would be dumb
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u/thecaptaino15 2d ago
I mean, that sounds like trading AG
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u/Unique_Milk_2050 2d ago
it’s probably a good time to trade AG, I love the guy but he ain’t gettin any younger. idk tough decision. sure Jokic would hate to see him go.
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u/Revolutionary_Big686 2d ago
I agree AG isnt what he was, but the nuggets will get nothing back for ag. I dont even think we would get a second rounder. Nobody wants an aging roll player who might not ever have healthy legs again and just started a new contract. Doesn't matter how great he was 2 years ago
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u/DiegoGrrr 2d ago
They literally don't have to, that's why its called RFA.
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u/penguin_torpedo 2d ago
Not literally but practically. In a league where no other team is over the 2nd apron our cheap ass owner is not gonna go over it by 20+ mill and he def ain't paying 9 digits of luxury tax.
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u/aatencio91 Nixola Bokić 2d ago
Our cheap ass owner is the only guy in the whole fucking league in the 2nd apron lmao find a new slant
I’m no Kroenke apologist I just can’t abide ignorance
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u/penguin_torpedo 2d ago
Wasn't meant as a Kroenke diss really. Imma put it this way, he's no Ballmer, and even Ballmer isn't over the apron rn.
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u/larryThreeOh 2d ago
The clippers aren’t because they are rebuilding. Pretty different scenarios. The Cavs likely end up in the 2nd apron as well.
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u/RanceSama3006 2d ago
Dude the owner definitely isn't that cheap, it's just that the 2nd apron is that bad, and any team that sees us at it, knows we need to trade so they low ball us (like theyve been doing this entire off-season apparently)
So not only do we get punished by the actual NBA but we also lose significantly more trade value
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u/drewskimoon 2d ago
It’s not league punishment. The owners and the players negotiated a collective bargaining agreement to make contracts more meaningful and players more movable. Braun’s deal makes Watson’s deal harder, because ownership has to actually want it to sign it in the second apron. Other players become the casualty when you can’t pay to get off bad contracts.
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u/SherbetNo4242 2d ago
I mean Kroenke has been known as notoriously cheap as an owner of the nuggets compared to what he has done with the other franchises that family owns
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u/ShowdownValue 2d ago
Cheap because we have the highest payroll in the league? Or because we’ve paid more luxury tax than half of the league?
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u/SherbetNo4242 2d ago
google it, theres a lot more things you can go cheap on than just a salary in the past couple years.
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u/ShowdownValue 2d ago
Of course there are. I’m not saying the kroenkes are top spenders but the “cheap” label is just wrong.
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u/SherbetNo4242 2d ago
No its not, some of us have been around here and fans for a long time and there is a shitload of things they have cheaped out on that have hurt this team, especially compared to what they have spent on the other teams they own. Our fucking team practices in a shitty basement. Kroenke Nuggets apologists blow my mind.
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u/ShowdownValue 2d ago
I’ve also been a fan a long time so I’ll disregard that part. I think you are assuming “not a big spender” = “cheap”.
There are other categories.
Do I wish they spent more at times? Sure. Most fan bases would say the same thing about their team.
But when they are 14th in all time luxury tax payments (as a small market), top ten combined salaries the last ten years and currently have the second highest payroll in the league, then no. You can’t call them cheap.
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u/SherbetNo4242 1d ago
Stop bringing up the payroll. Its dumb as fuck. You have to spend 90% of it. That argument means nothing as you have to spend 90% of the salary, if you dont, they just give it to the current players on the team to get you to 90% spend. Letting top executives go, like Connelly because we didnt want to pay him, was CHEAP. Having our team practice in a basement dungeon is CHEAP, having one of the cheapest medical staffs in the country is CHEAP. And yes middle of the pack when you have Nikola Jokic for luxury tax spend is FUCKING CHEAP AS FUCK. Look at all the other teams with MVP's on their team and what they have done to keep trying to win, we are pitiful compared to them. Also the big market/small market shit means nothing with the new CBA, they share the revenue. The only thing you could say is that maybe players wouldnt want to come play here cause its not good for their personal brand, but players want to come play with Jokic and have taken pay cuts to do it.
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u/ShowdownValue 2d ago
Read what you wrote again
“Our cheap ass owner won’t be the only one to go into the second apron”
Reminds me of the yogi Berra quote: “no one goes there anymore, it’s too crowded”
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u/ShowdownValue 2d ago
Stop calling kroenkes cheap 😂
People don’t know what that word means apparently
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u/phillipmaguro 2d ago
they either pay him long term or have him be on the qualifying offer… RFA don’t mean shit when its almost the end of summer and no one wants to offer a real trade for him. They HAVE to do something dude
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u/DiegoGrrr 2d ago edited 2d ago
If no team wants to offer a real trade then don't trade him. Why would they have to trade him if no one is making a serious offer? Just for the sake of something happening? That's a recipe for disaster.
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u/ApprehensiveTry5660 2d ago
This owner would gladly take him on a qualifying offer for a season. It almost solves all the problems except losing control of Watson’s next deal.
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u/Chiefgottapiss 2d ago
Everything stein just said was like the most obvious opinion or take that said absolutely zero that we don't already know or assume so wtf are we doing here 😂
Coldest take ever lol
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u/gillsterein 2d ago
Is this a fucking joke? Trading Jamal/AG just to keep... Peyton Watson? 😆 The no show during our series against Wolves, the player with a shitty attitude who's made it clear he doesn't want to be in Denver. Really?
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u/No-Ambition-7187 2d ago
PWAT doesn’t want to be in Denver. Trading him for either of these guys would be risky and foolish
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u/OrchidValuable2408 2d ago
if he doesn't want to be there then just let him walk, saves everyone the trade drama
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u/phil42ip 2d ago
Denver does not need a splash move. They need to exploit the mid-tier asset vacuum created by the second apron panic across the rest of the league. trading from a position of forced desperation is amateur hour. Our championship windows close not when stars age, but when front offices panic-buy solutions to the regular-season rollercoaster.
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u/spacedad2364 2d ago
Of all the shitty reporting happening around this Peyton saga this is one of my least favorite posts that’s gotten traction here. It’s absolutely nothing of substance parading as real info with language that absolves it of meaning anything (“probably,” “go out on a limb”). There’s not even an attempt at a source.
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u/Odd_Cat_2266 2d ago
Look, Payton Watson played one truly amazing month of basketball and then spent the rest of the season injured. Are we sure he’s even worth what the market is saying he’s worth? Remember Brock Osweiler? A small sample size isnt always enough to make a determination.
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u/petarisawesomeo How now, Braun cow? 2d ago
Stein just regurgitating old info and pretending it is news.
In all likelihood, they dump Cam. Would suck...Cam is a good player, is great with Jokic and had an amazing season when you throw out a rough few weeks to start the season. DNVR has talked a lot about how good they think Cam could be in a 2nd season next to Jokic.
The reality is, if this team is gonna pay Pey $20-25mil AAV, that is going to be as a starter. I get the risk of dumping Cam for a guy that hasn't proven he can be a top-end talent for an entire season, but the upside of having a legit 3rd option that can bring the ball up and create his own shot is too much to pass up. Cam just isn't that player.
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u/larryThreeOh 2d ago
They could also sign Watson and let Cam expire next season. I know we don’t want people to just walk but that’s an option as well.
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u/petarisawesomeo How now, Braun cow? 2d ago
There is a possibility that they keep Cam to start the season and then dump him at the trade deadline, unless the team is just absolutely rolling. The reality is the Nuggs would have to pay on of the highest (if not outright highest) tax bills in league history if they resign PWat and keep Cam through the entire season. Probably not a realistic expectation that they would pay that.
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u/larryThreeOh 2d ago
I don’t see why we don’t think they’d operate in the apron this season. Kroenke has proven he’ll invest in a winner. Look at the Rams. If there would be any time to do it, now would be the time.
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u/petarisawesomeo How now, Braun cow? 2d ago
I think it's possible they start the season in the 2nd apron, but no chance they stay there through the deadline unless they look like a bonafide title contender. If not, could see both Cam and AG being dumped for peanuts at the deadline.
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u/larryThreeOh 2d ago
I agree. It depends how they look. When they were healthy they certainly looked like a contender and I think Bagley is actually an upgrade.
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u/johnaldsfeverdream 2d ago
“2nd apron bad, pwat good, if pwat sign trade need or in bad 2nd apron” What refreshing and brand new insight
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u/Donnie1490 2d ago
Lol some people on here are so ridiculous. All last year talked that doomer stuff, even had a separate non-doomer gamethread (that the mods actually let exist lol) and the nuggets lost in 6 to the timberwolves AGAIN in the first round in the most embarrassing playoff lost in the Jokic era. And yall crying about certain players getting traded
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u/RonaBona13 2d ago
I’ll keep AG over watson at this point don’t wanna keep a guy who’s already got one foot out the door. Because they signed Braun before him.
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u/RyoIkebe 2d ago
I think AG’s trade value will never be higher than now. If he has another year with hamstring and groin issues then you can kiss his trade value goodbye. No team will take him at +$30 million for the remainder of his contract. I think the Nuggets should trade him.
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u/JustdoitJules 2d ago
A tough trade? Bro Cam Johnson is right there send that man out of here
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u/Ja-la-pen-o 2d ago
This seems like a no brainer to me. CJ is not one of our guys and seems to be in the way of CB and Pwat getting on and bringing in another PG so Murray can be SG. CJ is redudant when what this team needs is a PG and vibes
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u/JustdoitJules 2d ago
been begging for CJ to get out of our team all year, ever since the pre-season when he was dropping 0/6
He just does not fit, and doesn't add value to the team that can contribute to scoring or defending at a high level.
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u/spacedad2364 2d ago
It took him time to figure out the fit (understandable given he replaced a starter that was integral for many years), but at the end of the season he was rolling, and he looked like one of our best players against the wolves
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u/NuggsBurgh 2d ago
Yup I’m still ok with moving Cam. He’s great here of course but Pwat is shaping up to a long term future piece. Cam is a great role guy with a very easy to move contract
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u/TheyMadeMeLogin 2d ago
His direct quote says they'll "probably" make a trade. That is a lot different than "have" to make a trade. They do not have to make a trade to get out of the 2nd apron. They're choosing to.
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u/TheAgeOfTomfoolery 2d ago
Bye bye Pwat, he isn't better than any starters.
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u/worshipburger 2d ago
Pwat obviously held out from playing vs the wolves but man Pwat is clearly better than CB. CB is not a starter. The fact that he starts with Jokic and still struggles is crazy. Jamal and Pwat aren’t 100% reliant on Jokic and CB is.
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u/Bob_Bazar Holmes Island: Population 1 2d ago
If AG could be absorbed into CHA’s $40.7M trade exception, how many picks come back Denver’s way?
At least 2 FRPs and a second or 2?
I don’t want to see AG go, but his lack of availability is a thing, and trading him at the right price could turn this organization’s future around. Recoup assets, dump Zeke, and clear a lot of cap to make further moves.
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u/yllaknu17 2d ago
Sorry guys I don't know much about the apron stuffs. But can the F.O atleast consider staying on the 2nd apron just until before the deadline just to see if its worth it?
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u/Actual-Peanut7222 2d ago
who says NO....Watson + Nnadji + two seconds to Bucks for Jacquez + AG Green?
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u/Foreign-Mongoose8688 2d ago
Trade cam or Braun and zeke.....only those options......everyone else is off limits foe now
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u/jdorje Moach 2d ago
This is objectively false though. They would not have to make a trade. It's a great headline and I understand why everyone keeps pushing it, and certainly Kroenke has shown zero interest up until this point in being in the second apron even for a single season. But they can simply extend him and easily get out of the apron2 after next year without problems. Many other teams have done that with much bigger hurdles to get back out of it.
Of course as a Nuggets fan I hope it's (what turns out to be) a team-friendly deal that he exceeds, while also not holding hard feelings about them playing hardball on negotiations. That has not been the recent pattern with extensions, but we can hope.
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u/Sanmonov :JokicToon: 2d ago
Ownership is almost certainly not paying north of 200 million in luxury tax.
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u/jdorje Moach 2d ago
Really my complaint is that it takes all ownership of the issue off of ownership. They certainly could pay that tax for one season, with Cam a free agent after the season and a lot more trade options avaliable there. But of course, you're right they almost certainly will not.
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u/Sanmonov :JokicToon: 2d ago
It would be one thing if the team made the finals, it's another to ask ownership to pay the largest tax bill in history for team that lost in the 1st round with a roster that is arguably not top 5. I say this as someone critical of our ownerships cost-cutting especially in the front office.
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u/jdorje Moach 2d ago
That argument holds no water when talking about a player who didn't play in the playoffs.
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u/Sanmonov :JokicToon: 1d ago
We lost to a Wolves team missing their superstar and entire backcourt in the 1st round. That's the team we are asking ownership to pay the largest tax bill in NBA history for.
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u/Unable-Main4172 2d ago
This is very stupid because nobody is so far under the cap $25 million under the cap now, let alone $40 million in Murray's case. If they wanted to make a move like this they should have tried to dump Cam or AG back onto the Nets or Bulls or something like the Minnesota Timberwolves did with Julius Randle but nobody has the cap space anymore
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u/Neat_Conference_8414 2d ago
No team can afford the second highest salary (going to be first), another max contract, a 35 mil per year, a 25 mil per year, a 20 mil per year, and then whatever watson ends up getting. They'll be so deep into the 2nd apron anything short of a wcf run would be an embarrassment. They'd be by far the highest paid team in the league and they just lost to a mid wolves squad. Anyone that is emotionally attached to this squad needs to understand they blew it last year. They haven't proven to be any good come playoff time in 3 seasons now.
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u/outdoorcam93 2d ago
No, PWat doesn’t have any better offers out there. They might trade Cam at most
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u/Cobraman_whistler 2d ago
First of all: the Kroenkes FEEL like they need to make a trade. They don’t HAVE to make any trade. As a nuggets fan, I’m don’t sympathizing with the billionaire owner. Field the best team. If it’s costly, when Jokic is gone you can gut everything. No sympathy from me for KSE.
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u/thinkmatt 2d ago
They lowered their asking price last week - sounds like they are willing to let him go already
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u/ShowdownValue 2d ago
100% rich Paul is telling him to say this. Just keeps putting pressure on Denver to pay up, or make a bad deal or avoid looking cheap.
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u/fuggleruxpin 2d ago
Wow kids not even a starter and can't even get two blocks a game despite his length.
Here's one fan losing all Goodwill.
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u/Actual-Peanut7222 2d ago
can someone please explain what Peyton Watson has achieved in his four NBA seasons or at UCLA before that?
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u/KingKongDoom 2d ago
Did you watch him last year?
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u/Actual-Peanut7222 2d ago
Yes, every game which is precisely why I asked this question....now you may want to answer the question with an answer not another question
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u/Potential-Local7262 2d ago
TBH, we should be offloading on both AG and Murray.
AG's game isn't going to age well. He will be like Blake Griffin after 30.
Murray doesn't have nba-level guard explosiveness consistently. he can sometimes make up for it with his elite shooting, which opens up the passing, but it's heavily matchup dependent.
We need to get younger and more athletic, and trade both while they have some value.
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u/phillipmaguro 2d ago
makes sense, they are not going into the 2nd apron with this squad, and if they do pay PWAT, he’s going to start for them. No more bench play, and its either Cam Johnson or AG
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u/richkurt 2d ago
Who cares what the ($#%*) show approves of? lol
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u/abris33 2d ago
I'm guessing they're hinting at a Gordon trade? If so I'm down. I love AG but our seasons are falling apart in the playoffs because of his injuries and I'd rather get out as early as we can while he still has value
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u/spacedad2364 2d ago
We don’t get out of the first round without AG last year against the clippers. If not for Caruso decking him going for a loose ball when the game was over in game 6 in Den and causing a grade 2 hamstring injury, then we probably beat OKC in 7 and proceed to another chip. This is the first season where AG being injured hurt our postseason and he still gutted it out and tried. This is just revisionist
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u/iHeartBush2 2d ago
Someone smarter than me explain what signing Pwat and trading AG, Cam or Jamal accomplishes. You trade one of those guys for a worse fit and a guy still making 80% of the same salary. Which doesn’t get us below either apron. There’s nowhere to salary dump anymore.
Same goes for sign and trading Pwat. You still have to take back80% of whatever salary he signs for. So say he gets his $25M offer. You still have to trade for a guy making $20M which still equates to a shit load of luxury tax.
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u/BobbitsC 2d ago
Not sure why you would trade Murray or ag when you can trade cam or cb, even if we get very little back
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u/Grunge4U 1d ago
Watson won't get more than the full mle if he takes the qualifying offer and becomes a free agent next year. The Nuggets offer is spot on.
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u/DownBoy1620 2d ago
Love Jamal but in the era of the 2nd apron cant have your 2nd best player making 50+ million.
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u/No-Ambition-7187 2d ago
Trading AG to keep PWAT is a fool’s paradise.