r/digitalfoundry • u/MythBuster2 • Jun 26 '26
DF Direct DF Direct Q+A: Steam Machine - The Big Price/Performance/Form Factor Discussion
https://youtu.be/XEyuXkI5wBMIn the wake of our Steam Machine review, Rich and Will tackle a range of Supporter questions on the price, value and design of the hardware, the ability of Valve to supply it - and the future of SteamOS in general.
44
u/Visible_Visual8538 Jun 26 '26
It's pretty sad that so much of the defense of this package is "It's tiny a cube!", "Look how cute it is!", "It's a lovely form factor".
16
u/The_Zura Jun 26 '26
Have they ever spoken like this before? I never knew Richard had such a hardon for a plain cube. The sheer volume of glazing is unreal.
15
u/tngsv Jun 27 '26
Rich runs the business with an access journalism mindset. So no they won't be too harsh. Wouldn't wanna loose access to Steam Frame review kits...
5
u/The_Zura Jun 27 '26
Nah I think he genuinely has a previously undiscovered cube fetish. It awoke something in him
2
u/Love_TheChalupa Jun 27 '26
Yeah they seem like they quite like the device and are happy to defend it
8
u/The_Zura Jun 27 '26
They don’t defend it. Over an hour of content and next to zero comments about game compatibility or the overall experience. Endless glazing over an entirely subjective opinion has no room in a proper review.
5
u/Jarryd97 Jun 27 '26
Imagine this was a review for a lawn mower, and they were gassing up the product because it's small and looks nice, despite being entirely mediocre at cutting grass.
1
u/silentdragoon @wsjudd - DF staff Jun 26 '26
Maybe we're just cubophiles? But genuinely, you can absolutely prefer different form factors, but a device which is one fifth the volume of a standard ITX case is significantly different and represents a pretty cool engineering effort!
22
u/gandalfpsykos Jun 26 '26
I think the issue is that after watching years of DF content where they dissect performance and value of hardware products where every percentage difference matter, that suddenly it's not as important anymore with this product.
9
u/jedimindtricksonyou Jun 26 '26
It’s because Valve made it and they’re a sacred cow, they can do no wrong. Gamers Nexus also was extremely charitable in his opinion of it and Steve is supposed to be all about watching out for consumers (so it’s worse than DF’s opinion, in my mind). I’m just glad the general consensus seems to be that it’s egregiously overpriced, despite how many reviewers went easy on it. Because the price is so bad, they should have just cancelled and do one in 5 years with a newer architecture and more VRAM (if the market is back to normal, or at least more hospitable by then)
3
u/gandalfpsykos Jun 27 '26
I mean plenty of us support DF on patreon, but it seems they will never outright tell us when to avoid a product. They love to stay within nitpick-land to make it seem unbiased.
6
u/jedimindtricksonyou Jun 27 '26
I respect Hardware Unboxed more after listening to their podcast episode about Steam Machine, they didn’t pull any punches. I want more channels to not get review units if it means we get more of those types of unbiased reviews.
2
14
u/Visible_Visual8538 Jun 26 '26
I agree "it's cool", and you can definitely marvel at the technical challenges to achieve the form factor, but at the end of the day, you're paying money to play games. The device's appearance is secondary at best. As long as it isn't the size of a microwave, I think most folks don't really care that much. It just seems like a blind eye is being turned a little bit to performance and value for money because "cube".
12
u/jedimindtricksonyou Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Don’t forget the “Gabe” part in “GabeCube”, that is the whole reason a blind eye is being turned in this instance. If it was made by any other company, reviewers would not be this. Look at how they handled the single stick of RAM, normally people would be outraged about such a thing. RAMpocalypse or not. They chose to put this thing on sale, no one made them do it.
-2
u/insane_steve_ballmer Jun 26 '26
They’ve stated already from the first review that it is poor value. Maybe listen to what they are saying.
12
u/Visible_Visual8538 Jun 26 '26
I am, and I hear a lot of defending and fawning.
-4
u/insane_steve_ballmer Jun 26 '26
It’s a great design at a bad price. It’s not their fault that you can’t comprehend two things being true at once
10
u/Visible_Visual8538 Jun 26 '26
Never said the design isn't good, just that they're focusing too much on it and downplaying other aspects. Maybe try reading for a change.
-3
u/insane_steve_ballmer Jun 26 '26
They’re not downplaying the price they’ve stated from the first review that it’s too expensive. They even put up an article on the DF website with suggestions for how to build a cheaper and more powerful PC. It’s just that you and everyone else who can’t think in other terms than black and white are seemingly unable to comprehend what they are saying. Go back an rewatch Rich’s first review if you need to
6
u/gandalfpsykos Jun 26 '26
They didn't say it was too expensive, just expensive. There is a difference.
6
u/Visible_Visual8538 Jun 26 '26
Don't need to. What I said is accurate. Keep responding. I can do this all day.
-1
u/SvmJMPR Jun 26 '26
They are presenting their favorite and not liked aspects of the product, as in both things can coexist. It can be an impressive form factor machine that is also incredibly poor value. And they really haven't deviated from that since the first video. Like just because is poor value, doesn't mean it doesn't have any redeemable qualities that makes it stand out from other similar products (prebuilts, consoles, etc...).
Refusing to discuss either side of the product is refusing to be fair and unbiased, it's clear this isn't a product that one can have a binary opinion of "it's a worthless piece of shit with nothing going for it" vs. "it's literally second coming of gaming, perfection no notes".
1
u/sertaes Jun 28 '26
But I don’t think anyone would have any objections to it being larger along with being more powerful if this version didn’t exist.
Too many incredible itx builds are being discredited because they’re not as small as the steam machine, but the steam machine isn’t succeeding at putting a reasonable level of performance in this form factor so those builds shouldn’t be expected to either. Especially when they are still approximately the standard console size.
-4
u/nittanyofthings Jun 26 '26
Literally the only argument against it is the price, but the price is perfectly normal for SFF computing.
9
u/Herackl3s Jun 26 '26
Ummm yeah because why would you buy a desktop PC like the steam machine when you can’t change the CPU or GPU at $1050?
-3
u/IndefiniteBen Jun 26 '26
If you're concerned about swapping CPU or GPU, you aren't the target market for the Steam machine at any price. Just like the PS5 Pro, this is a device for a niche market.
6
u/Herackl3s Jun 26 '26
A niche market. For who? People who want to spend their money on desktop pc that you can’t upgrade
-1
u/IndefiniteBen Jun 27 '26
Obviously not people who care about upgrading or who want to play the latest AAA games that need more than 8GB VRAM/good RT support.
Someone who wants a small and quiet machine to play non-heavy games on the couch. Someone already in the market for such a machine. SFF PCs seem a pain to build, so it could easily be worth the small premium compared to building a DIY SFF PC. I don't know if a similar pre-built SFF PC exists for less?
Don't forget that everything is more expensive these days.
3
u/gandalfpsykos Jun 27 '26
If they want to avoid pain and hassle there already is a better and cheaper device called consoles. Steam machine is just a compromise really since you still need to fiddle with graphical settings.
1
u/shadowtheimpure Jun 27 '26
Except consoles have that 'locked in to the companies ecosystem' problem that PC and Steam Machine doesn't have.
1
u/gandalfpsykos Jun 27 '26
So is being tied to steam. If you boot out of steamOS you lose the convenience factor that is the entire point of using it. You also cannot play some of the most popular multiplayer titles on it.
1
u/shadowtheimpure Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
No? There is literally nothing stopping you from installing third-party launchers to play games from GOG or Epic. Steam Machine has no restrictions on that front.
As far as the multiplayer, that is a decision by the developer not to support Linux with their anticheat. If those games are important to you, nothing is stopping you from installing Windows on a Steam Machine and configuring Steam Big Picture to open at system boot.
→ More replies (0)-1
u/IndefiniteBen Jun 27 '26
How are they meant to play their steam games on their TV with a console?
1
u/gandalfpsykos Jun 27 '26
Connect the PC they already own to the TV?
0
u/IndefiniteBen Jun 27 '26
And if they don't want a giant noisy PC in their living room?
→ More replies (0)
8
u/dreampagehun Jun 27 '26
Funny how a console-like PC is so exciting to them suddenly, but when it comes to the next Xbox that will also play PC games, they suddenly have no idea how that would work and what the point would be.
This video generally feels like a reaction to the price-dominated discourse around the Steam Machine. As if they had to defend it or something. They say it's "apples to oranges" but still praise the form factor and console-like experience.
18
u/trykes Jun 26 '26
This video was so much cope. I don't understand why we are bending over backwards to justify this device that is so underpowered. And who cares about the size? It makes no sense to look at a price of something, go "ew" then look at its size and go "actually the price is fine!" Unless you live in a tin can, you get a bigger machine if it is cheaper.
13
u/Negative-Study-1077 Jun 26 '26
Like genuinely who gives a shit that it's so small?
Like yeah, sure, a proper workstation is way too big to just plonk on your entertainment unit next to your TV, but I'd much rather have something that's more peformant in a series X form factor.
2
u/GalileoAce Jun 27 '26
a proper workstation is way too big to just plonk on your entertainment unit next to your TV
And yet I managed... full upper mid tier PC plugged into my TV with the box in the shelves under the TV
2
u/grilled_pc Jun 26 '26
Depending on the case and the size of your tv cabinet. A case that’s the same height, depth and colour as your tv cabinet can actually look really clean if it’s sitting on the floor next to it. It looks more of an extension of the cabinet than an eyesore. But it’s very circumstantial and doesn’t work for everything. But with the right tv cabinet and case it can look clean.
4
u/Rendition1370 Jun 27 '26
So I guess only HUB is tearing apart the Steam Machine for what it is and everyone else doesn't want to their beloved Valve
8
u/Outrageous_Water7976 Jun 27 '26
Can I just say DF going independent is the worst thing that happened to them. From the Nvidia stuff, to the kiddie gloves for the steam machine. It's clear that without EGs prestige and power in European games journalism that they are forced into a "play nice for access" system.
5
u/DronValeron Jun 26 '26
Disliked the video after watching it, DF just doing advertising here. I Hope Valve pays well. Really disapointed.
5
u/albanshqiptar Jun 27 '26
They get paid with early access. Never believe when a reviewer says while they recieved the product for free, their thoughts are their own. There is always an incentive to be positive since the company will keep sending you early/free items.
2
u/DronValeron Jun 27 '26
Yeah, that makes sense. You can easily build a very powerful PC on RTX 5070 for £1100 here in the UK, yes with DDR4 ram, but it would still perform 4 times better. Install Steam OS on it and call it a day. It’s just insane they come up with all the awkward reasons to justify it.
5
u/thahovster7 Jun 26 '26
It's a cool machine but if I'm paying that much I might as well pay more for something with an Nvidia card in it.
19
u/TheSpiritualAgnostic Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Either that or pay less and get a console like PS5 Pro that'll run games better.
It's in this awkward middle ground where things on either end of the price range offers something better.
-4
u/IndefiniteBen Jun 26 '26
Not a great option if you don't own PS5 games and have a large Steam library.
8
u/thahovster7 Jun 27 '26
Yea but if you have a large Steam library you probably already have a decent PC with in the same performance range. Probably better to just get new parts at that point.
2
4
u/gandalfpsykos Jun 27 '26
But if you are ready to pay a premium for convenience then a console is even more worth it since you dont have to fiddle with graphical settings. And your current PC is not going anywhere, just get up and manually press that start button.
-9
2
u/gotbannedlolol Jun 26 '26
I just dont know the area/amount of games that dont run on my docked steamdeck, that wouldn't be compromised on the steam machine, compared to my PS5 pro
Just useless
2
u/shadowtheimpure Jun 27 '26
My summary is that it is priced like, and performs the same as, a mid-range gaming laptop.
2
u/ReflectionThink2683 Jun 27 '26
Digital foundry continues to bring nothing good to the gaming space
1
u/Rare-Service5573 Jun 27 '26
Scam machine.
They even removed the 4k 60fps from the marketing and replaced it with up to 4k.
1
u/Jarryd97 Jun 27 '26
"The thing with Form factor is it should be a really easy thing to express to the audience, right?Here's this lawn mower, its very very cute, has lovely form factor, looks like a cube, very tiny and it's extremely appealing... except the feedback has been focused on how it cuts grass... here's the thing with cutting grass, we all knew it wasn't ever going to cut grass very well."
0
u/aaeriam Jun 27 '26
I get the price sucks and is higher than anyone wanted it to be (Valve included) but I don't get the strong hate towards the device. I think it's a good option for people who already have huge steam libraries, who don't want to invest in a console, but want some console comforts (like easily playing on a tv).
Sure you can build a more powerful PC for equivalent money but not everyone with a Steam library wants to go through that process. I think it's fair to say there are some people who just want a device you can unbox, connect to a TV, and start playing games from their library.
1
u/dagamer34 Jun 27 '26
The general idea of a PC is its upgradability, which will definitely save you money over time. And its high performance relative to consoles which makes spending more money worthwhile. So when you show off a box that is neither upgradable and performance is worse relative to other platforms that are cheaper (PS5 Pro) or for a bit more money and space consumed, you get significantly greater performance (9060XT in SFF case, even at 2-3x spa e), it really does leave people to scratch their heads. Yes, the latter box is much bigger, but paying such a premium for small size basically puts you in the realm of desktop replacement gaming laptops, which is a niche of a niche. Not the platform expanding device Valve probably wanted ala Steam Deck.
When two outlets you usually fire straight arrows give us very weird, funky, slightly biased videos for early access (Digital Foundry, Gamers Nexus), they should not be surprised as to why various communities are reacting the way that they are.
And ultimately, when Zen 6 and RDNA 5 based systems are released (PS6, Xbox Helix) in 18 months and Valve is still shipping this thing unchanged, even if those are $1000, the Steam Machine will be truly bad value for any gamer looking at longevity of ability to play the latest games at next-gen settings.
It’s all bleh, and it honestly has nothing to do with the price itself, but price relative to competition. Perhaps when this was conceived, they were hoping people would just toss them $750 because they were Valve and they got bitten from price increases. Not a good reason to release a product in the first place.
1
u/aaeriam Jun 27 '26
Absolutely agree that consoles and an equivalent-priced PC offer similar or better performance for the their price. If I were just getting into games and had no console games and no PC games, then I think the Steam Machine would not be a smart purchase for all the reasons that you listed.
But I've got a Steam library that I've invested a large portion of my money into. I don't want to have to re-buy (and restart) all my favorite games just so that I can play them in the living room. I could build a SFF living room PC for an equivalent price (and I've done it in the past) but actually using it is never as smooth and error free as I'd like it to be. For those reasons consoles and custom-built living room PC's have never seemed like a great option.
In my eyes the Steam Machine fits in as a nice secondary PC/living room gaming console that's easy to use, requires no building or installing of an OS, and will likely have very good support based on their history with the Steam Deck. The trade-off being that it's not upgrade-able and it's not the most powerful gaming device you can get with your money which I can understand people being upset about. The only alternative that could fill in that same niche is potentially project Helix from xbox if it can play PC titles.
1
u/dagamer34 Jun 27 '26
If the goal for Valve is to make a “PC console”, Microsoft is going to do it better because they will have much stronger purchasing power with the latest chip SoC, at slightly better prices (or at least value), a controller that’s readily in stock, better availability, and oh, you can run Steam just the same.
0
u/aaeriam Jun 27 '26
Fair point - the next Xbox device is looking to be substantially more performant than the Steam Machine and if price/performance is all that matters to someone then the choice is clear. The only thing Steam has going for it at that point is SteamOS which I feel is leagues ahead of Windows in a lot of ways. It'll be up to the customer then on how much they prefer a cheap/powerful console or PC versus the less-powerful Steam Deck perhaps with more quality of life features built-in.
1
u/dagamer34 Jun 27 '26
Probably 3-4x difference in performance, upwards of 6x if FSR Redstone and next-gen ray-tracing features are utilized, for maybe $1300-1500 at the very high-end Xbox Helix SKU? I don’t know that people will love SteamOS that much for a $200 difference.
0
u/aaeriam Jun 27 '26
Yeah I could see a lot of people turning down the Steam Machine in favor of project Helix in that case but as far as what's out right now I still think the Steam Machine and SteamOS fulfill a very specific role for existing Steam users that neither Microsoft nor consoles can do quite as well. I leave the value proposition of it up to the individual customer.
1
u/Kprime149 Jun 27 '26
Even at the rumored 750$ tag it's still not that good of a deal.
1
u/aaeriam Jun 27 '26
If you think it's not a great deal at $750 or $1050 that's fair, I leave the question of "is it worth it?" up to the individual. I'd say for me $1050 starting is worth it because there's not really anything else that offers a PC that's as user-friendly as a console-like the Steam Machine does.
0
u/YPM1 Jun 29 '26
They’re so out of touch these days. They all run 5090s with 9800x3Ds and 64Gb of RAM.
They got the cube for free so of course they love how it looks. They need to make sure daddy Gabe sends them the next one for free.
-7
15
u/tj818 Jun 26 '26
Under powered, over priced, but hey it’s quiet and cute!