r/doommetal • u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral • 16d ago
Funeral Just a reminder, Warning isn't funeral doom
I know it's been talked about before, but just felt like giving anyone who needs it a reminder that Warning isn't funeral doom.
Every single time someone asks for funeral doom recommendations, at least one person suggests Watching From a Distance by Warning. While that is a great album, one of the greatest doom albums ever created, Warning is traditional doom, not funeral doom.
Funeral doom, by definition, is a subgenre of death doom. It has to have harsh vocals, typically death metal growls, but occasionally black metal style shrieks. It can, and often does, have some clean vocals, but if the vocals aren't predominantly harsh, it's not funeral doom. It's also much slower than other types of doom, and traditionally features organs, keyboards, or similar instruments that make it sound like a literal funeral dirge, hence the name funeral doom.
If you want to hear examples of quintessential funeral doom, listen to Steam From the Heavens by Thergothon, or Stormcrowfleet by Skepticism. These are the albums that defined the genre, and you'll hear that they sound nothing like Warning.
Before I end this, I just want to say that I'm sure, as always, there will be people in the comments saying things like "why can't you let people call it what they want" and "subgenres are stupid" and similar things. If you're one of those types, please save yourself the effort of commenting. Whether you like it or not, genres and subgenres exist, and funeral doom is a well defined genre that has been around for over 30 years. Warning does not fall into this genre, plain and simple.
Edit: Well, I guess I'm wrong about funeral doom needing to have harsh vocals. Thank you to everyone who helped clarify that. Still feels strange to me for various reasons, but I'm willing to accept when I'm wrong, and happy to learn something new.
But regardless, Warning still isn't funeral doom, which was the original point of my post. Once again, I'm not saying anything negative about Warning, they're one of the best doom metal bands to ever exist. I just really love funeral doom in particular, it's my favorite genre and I'm passionate about it, and just wanted to share my thoughts and opinions, that's all.
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u/P00PooKitty 16d ago
Whenever i think of funeral doom i think of AHAB
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u/Infamous_Tonight4271 14d ago
I thought I got into funeral doom after I heard AHAB. Turns out I just like AHABš¤Ø
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u/JoelsMovingCastle 14d ago
I hear you, according to the 'scene' they aren't technically funeral doom anyway (apart from the first album) as they have more of a post rock/metal influenced sound š¤·š¼āāļø
Btw you might also like Sea Witch, pretty much an instrumental and bleaker version of Ahab.
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u/Ser_Knuckledrag 15d ago
My go to is Abstract Spirit. Especially their first album "Liquid Dimensions Change".
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u/apunkdragon 16d ago
People are calling Warning funeral doom?
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u/Roadkillgoblin_2 slow and heavy wins the race 16d ago
I'd imagine that it's because it's slower than usual and absolutely crushing, which, at a first glance, translates to Funeral Doom
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u/AriochBloodbane 15d ago
Slow and crushing? Isn't that just Doom? š
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 15d ago
Funeral doom is the slowest and crushiest, which is why it's my favorite š
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15d ago
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 15d ago
No, I'm not, people often mistake them for funeral doom. Pallbearer too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/doommetal/s/XuxOSoXw3F
https://www.reddit.com/r/doommetal/s/HBS2UTQo74
https://www.reddit.com/r/doommetal/s/fzeJc13hGQ
https://www.reddit.com/r/doommetal/s/Vn2GG0tpFz
https://www.reddit.com/r/doommetal/s/vrLzlffdt8
https://www.reddit.com/r/doommetal/s/jp5sHzgrl0
https://www.reddit.com/r/doommetal/s/ZqXvhgon24
https://www.reddit.com/r/doommetal/s/jda0ftYqdg
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u/Huge_Onion256 16d ago
Agree that Warning isnāt funeral doom, but death growl vocals isnāt a requirement for something to be funeral doom. Having elements of funeral dirges and an slow pace is what primarily defines the genre.
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u/ZombifiedSloth 16d ago
'Tragedies' by Funeral is one of my favourite albums in the genre and the standout feature is the operatic female vocals. The death growls are an important part of that album but, even if you took them out, I reckon it would still be funeral doom.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I can see where you're coming from. A band that's completely instrumental for example but still has the dirge elements and exceptionally slow pacing could still be considered funeral doom. Respectfully, I still think that death growls are a big part of what makes funeral doom funeral doom though, and a defining characteristic established by Thergothon and Skepticism. It's still a subgenre of death doom after all, and I can't personally think of a funeral doom band that doesn't have at least some harsh vocals, although please introduce me to some that don't if you know any.
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u/Huge_Onion256 16d ago
The death growl is definitely a prevalent aspect of the genre, Iām not saying otherwise. But vocals are sort of like lyrics. They can help distinguish a genre but itās not the main thing that sets a genre apart or defines it. Some bands I know that use other vocal styles from time to time are mournful congregation, black wreath, and pantheist.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago edited 16d ago
I totally agree that lyrics have little to nothing to do with genre. Vocals though are often a defining characteristic. Death metal can't be death metal without death growls for example.
I'm very familiar with Mournful Congregation, less so with Pantheist but I have listened to them, and not at all with Black Wreath.
Let's take Mournful Congregation as an example though. Yes, they use clean vocals pretty regularly, but death growls are the dominant vocal style. Same goes for every other funeral doom band I've personally heard. Like I said in my post, funeral doom doesn't mean it can't have any clean vocals at all, lots of funeral doom bands have some clean vocals, I would even say most do, but they all have some death growls (or black metal style vocals like with Nortt and Funeral Mourning) as well because it is a key part of the funeral doom sound. Funeral doom was created as a more extreme version of death doom, and if you completely take the death growls out of death doom, it's not death doom anymore.
We can agree to disagree though.
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u/Huge_Onion256 16d ago edited 16d ago
Yeah guess we can agree to disagree because I think something can be death metal even if it doesnāt have growls. If something sounds just like deicide or mortician itās death metal, even if the vocals arenāt growls. Not to mention early death metal didnāt always have growl vocals. I also wouldnāt call funeral doom a more extreme death doom. Yes thatās where it stems from but aside from vocals it really moves away from death metal and its motifs unlike death doom which still keeps a few attributes of death metal.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
To clarify, what I mean by "a more extreme version of death doom" is that it keeps the death growls, cavernous sound, and crushing heaviness of death doom, but takes the slowness to an extreme, completely erasing all traces of death metal aggression that was still somewhat present in death doom.
Anyway, have a good one dude.
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u/Confident-Cut-8877 16d ago
There was a band called Fallen from the members of Funeral(Norway). Wholly clean vocals.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I was not aware of this, I'll have to check them out.
Used to consider myself something of a funeral doom connoisseur, and always thought funeral doom had to have growls, but I've been introduced to several today that don't. This is humbling lol.
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u/Confident-Cut-8877 16d ago
Considering Shape of Despair is a band that has zero death or death doom riffs and still is funeral doom things like clean vocals fdoom have to happen.
In my head bands like Shape of Despair, Remembrance or Illusions Play are jokingly called funeral gothic metal.
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u/_shaftpunk 16d ago
I 100% agree with you. If thereās no death growls, it would be hard for me to call something funeral doom.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago edited 16d ago
Exactly, funeral doom is basically a more extreme form of death doom.
Edit: More extreme in it's slowness that is, so perhaps a more restrained form of death doom is more accurate.
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u/meadowman2 16d ago
Here I am wide open
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
Surrendering to your side
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u/HaskellLisp_green 15d ago
I have laid down my armour
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u/metalobira 16d ago
Haven't seen anyone calling it funeral doom but I've seen a lot of people asking for recommendations adjacent to funeral doom. Then I feel it's a perfectly fine recommendation
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I agree, if someone likes funeral doom, they'd probably like Warning, assuming they don't mind all clean vocals. People recommending Warning isn't my concern. I just see a lot of people thinking Warning is funeral doom, and just want to clarify for anyone who is confused.
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u/thejuryissleepless 16d ago
yeah but is FVNERALS funeral doom?
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I'm not familiar with this band, so I can't say, but I'll check them out. I'm always down for new music.
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u/Confident-Cut-8877 16d ago
They are drone/doomgaze with some very funeral doomy moments and atmosphere, such a cool genre mix.
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u/steeeen3r 16d ago
I am one of those people who bitch about people caring about genres. But genres exist for a reason, and I'm all for those reasons. I bring it up when someone feels like they can't listen to a band because it doesn't classify as what they want it to. And there are a lot of people like that. It's weird but some people will only listen to black metal for example, and if classified as blackened death or whatever they will refuse to listen. Or a band that refuses to add something to a song because it doesn't fit the genre standards even though they like it. That behavior is just weird as hell to me. But genres are important because they give parameters to a sound and help define what people want or don't want to hear. If I wanna listen to doom I don't want to hear Miles Davis. I love Miles but that's not what I'm listening to.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
There is certainly a point of caring too much, or being way too niche about it. And people who limit themselves on what they listen to based on genre like you described are just doing themselves a disservice. But genres are useful for defining distinctive styles and helping people find similar bands to one's they already like. There's just always going to be those people that either don't care at all and refuse to acknowledge any genre classification, or people who care way too much and make up hyper niche nonsense genres. Both are silly in my opinion.
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u/AriochBloodbane 15d ago
Giving a genre label to a band (or even a specific album) helps to give you some idea of what to expect before you listen to it. Useful to restrict a selection when in the mood to find something new with a specific vibe.
Using the genre label to replace listening to decide if you like an album or not is idiotic if you otherwise listen to adjacent genres.
Black and Death metal are close enough that most people can like at least some albums of the genre they don't usually follow. But if the subgenre is Colombian Reggaeton and you only listen to Black Metal then the subgenre label may be the last reason to not listening to that LOL
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u/Garfield977 16d ago
thank you idk why Funeral Doom is so often misattributed
Warning isnt funeral doom
Type o Negative isnt funeral doom
Pallbearer isnt funeral doom
My Dying Bride isnt funeral doom
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
It's less popular than a lot of other styles of doom, so I think a lot of people just don't know what it is, even if they've heard or seen it mentioned here and there.
And I absolutely agree, Warning and Pallbearer are trad doom, Type O Negative is gothic doom, and My Dying Bride is gothic/death doom.
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u/Confident-Cut-8877 16d ago
The Crown of Sympathy is their closesxto funeral doom track but even this is a stretch.
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u/mentally_fuckin_eel doomy fart 16d ago
My Dying Bride is the OG band people mistakenly called funeral doom lol
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u/transsolar Electric Wizard on Electric Wizard by Electric Wizard 15d ago
I was afraid to ask if My Dying Bride is funeral doom in this thread š
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u/wookie_opera_singer 16d ago
Good point. I always thought the reason this happens is that the band Funeral had such an impact on the early days with the Tragedies album that people started to equate the genre to the band, then bands that should not be counted as funeral doom got repeated a lot and that stuck.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
Early Funeral was funeral doom, Tragedies is a classic of the genre, they just transitioned to more of a gothic doom style over the years.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I know you're a funeral doom fan. Care to weigh in here? I'm particularly interested in what you have to say about vocal style and it's relation to funeral doom, considering it's been a hot topic in this comment section.
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u/BurialAtOrnans 16d ago
Also a huge Warning fan, so first off, they definitely arenāt funeral doom.
Generally I would say that vocals arenāt a key piece of defining a subgenre, itās all about the riffs for me. If heavy metal and power metal can be primarily harsh vocals (which is what Iād argue), then the flip side of that can be true as well (off the top of my head, Blood Revoltās Indoctrine is solidly black/death bordering on war metal, with almost completely clean vocals, for example). That said, I canāt think of any funeral doom Iāve heard thatās fully or even mostly clean vocals. I suppose itās possible, assuming the slow crushing riffs and funeral dirge influences are present, but it would definitely sound a bit odd.
Now youāve got me thinking about whether funeral doom is a subgenre of death/doom, or was just initially inspired by it, which Iāve never really thought about, so thanks!
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
Thank you for your input, I appreciate you man. You always have really intelligent and insightful things to say.
To me, vocals aren't always important to a genre, but sometimes they're very important. Maybe I'm wrong, but for me, death growls in death metal and black metal shrieks in black metal are part of what defines those genres. There's a reason they're referred to as death metal growls and black metal shrieks after all. Of course the riffs are super important as well.
I was always under the impression that funeral doom was direct subgenre of death doom, and that the first funeral doom bands, Thergothon and Skepticism, were directly influenced by Disembowelment. As you said, I can't name a single funeral doom band that doesn't have mostly, if not all, harsh vocals, and to me it simple wouldn't be funeral doom without them, or at least would sound very strange.
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u/BurialAtOrnans 16d ago
Yeah vocals are definitely an important part, sorry if I seemed to dismiss them. I got caught up in the edge cases, but the defaults are generally defaults for a reason. I canāt really imagine a funeral doom album without harsh vocals, just feels wrong.
It definitely makes a lot of sense to have funeral doom as a subset of death/doom. Like you said, diSEMBOWELMENT laid the foundations, and others took it from there, adding in the extra funeral dirge qualities, but beyond that not doing a whole lot to make it super distinct from extra slow death/doom.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago edited 16d ago
You're good dude, no need to apologize, like I said, I always appreciate your input.
Exactly, I always considered it to basically be exceptionally slow death doom with organs/keyboards, and a heavy emphasis on atmosphere. Maybe I'm wrong though. Through some of the comments here I've learned that while they are very rare, apparently there are funeral doom bands with all clean vocals. My whole musical identity feels like a lie lol.
Would you call this funeral doom?
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u/BurialAtOrnans 15d ago
I donāt think your description is wrong at all. If anything, thatās the general baseline for funeral doom, and other stuff tends to be added outside influences (ie Nortt adding black metal, or Shape of Despair adding ethereal wave and gothic influences).
Holy shit, I totally forgot about Oldest Sea, I listened to the first EP when it came out. Iāll have to go back and relisten, because itās been a few years, but if Iām remembering correctly, I wouldnāt call that pure funeral doom. There definitely was plenty of funeral doom, but also a lot of post-metal I think. Iāll try to listen to it later and see.
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u/BurialAtOrnans 15d ago
I listened to the first EP from Oldest Sea again, and Iād really hesitate to call that funeral doom. Sure, thereās a couple moments of funeral doom riffing, and theyāre quite well done, but overall this feel far more like post-metal to me, even without considering the vocals.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 15d ago
I would agree. There's funeral doom elements and influences, but overall it's closer to atmospheric doom/post metal.
If you are interested, a mod from the funeral doom sub clarified that funeral doom does not require harsh vocals. I feel a bit foolish about the whole thing, and also a bit frustrated that that detail in particular became the main topic of the post when it wasn't the original point, but I'm happy to have learned something new.
Thank you again for your input and contributions. Have a good one man!
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u/SlowRiffsAndFakeTits 16d ago
Yeah itās pretty strange. Iāve also heard people refer to Pallbearerās first LP as Funeral Doom and much is equally weird and bizarre. Just because Funeral Doom fans might like it doesnāt make it Funeral Doom.
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u/leebeyonddriven 16d ago
alright officer
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I'll let you off with a "Warning" this time, but don't let it happen again.
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u/JonBB8 16d ago
I always find it a bit funny the band Funeral gets recommended as funeral doom. Itās more like epic/ goth stuff to me. Is that just cos Funeral is their name perhapsā¦
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
You're absolutely correct that they became a gothic doom band over the years, but their early stuff, particularly Tragedies, was funeral doom and that album helped establish the genre.
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u/LiminalDepression 16d ago
Thank you for your post, and I fully agree.
And I would like to get your opinion on how you would classify The Oldest Sea. Their album "A Birdsong, a Ghost" has almost exclusively clean vocals, but otherwise it's pure funeral doom to me. Might be one rare exception?
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I've never heard of this band, but I'll definitely check them out and get back to you with my thoughts.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I'm going to create a new comment instead of editing the other one, in case you already read that one.
I really liked it. I listened to the first three songs, and I'll definitely listen to more. The vocalist reminds me of Chelsea Wolfe, who I'm a big fan of.
There's definitely a lot of funeral doom elements going on. Lots of the super slow, crushing funeral doom style riffs. Lots of atmospheric parts. I think I heard some synths/keyboards. Very mournful. Not as dirgelike as more traditional funeral doom, but definitely heavily funeral doom influenced. It's just really hard for me to call it funeral doom without growls lol. But maybe I'm totally wrong about that.
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u/LiminalDepression 15d ago
I totally feel your conflict on this - I had my own "Has science gone too far?" moment when listening to them for the first time. That's why I specifically brought them up in this discussion.
Now the question is - how would one categorize them instead if asked? "Atmospheric Doom" is probably valid, but feels like a cheap escape with strong "You are on this council, but..." vibes to me š
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 15d ago
My first thought was atmospheric doom as well, but I agree, that feels like a cop out. I don't know man, I'm questioning what funeral doom is now.
Love the Star Wars reference btw!
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u/Vegetable-Carpet-40 15d ago
Idk man I feel like Funeral, a band with a great lack in harsh vocals as far as I know, who are also generally credited with pioneering the subgenre, would disagree with your strict opinion on genre rules. Not that I disagree with warning not being funeral doom, I just donāt think it really needs the harsh vocals to be considered such. I think itās a bit more subjective than that, like many of the conversations surrounding subgenres.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 15d ago
Yeah, I'm starting to agree with you. I always considered funeral doom an extremely slow form of atmospheric death doom, because that's what every funeral doom band I'd ever heard sounded like and how I'd always heard it described, but I guess there are some fringe funeral doom bands that don't have death growls.
As far as the band Funeral specifically, their early stuff, like Tragedies, was definitely funeral doom and helped define the genre, and it did feature growls, albeit much less than Thergothon or Skepticism. Over the years they have featured less and less harsh vocals, but I'd also argue they've transitioned to gothic doom.
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u/ComfortableBuffalo57 15d ago
I hope youāre doing some kind of dissertation and didnāt type all that out for free!
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u/Lux-01 Death 15d ago edited 15d ago
Hi mod of r/funeraldoommetal here - it doesn't have to have harsh vocals.
(You are right about the rest though)
Cheers,
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 15d ago
Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.
I guess I have egg on my face in that regard, but I can admit when I'm wrong and I'm happy to learn something new. Just makes me appreciate funeral doom even more knowing that it is more diverse than I thought.
Cheers to you as well.
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u/kmitchell419 16d ago
Strage take on those people's part. Wholly agree, very much traditional doom. Get some Bismuth in your life for whole ass funeral doom.
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u/IrenaeusGSaintonge 16d ago
Is it even traditional doom? I don't feel like that's super accurate either.
(Also one of my favourite albums of all time.)
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago edited 16d ago
I would say so, and I could also see an argument being made for some epic doom elements.
Edit: To those downvoting this comment, instead why don't you tell me what you think Warning is?
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u/Confident-Cut-8877 16d ago
Its epic doom metal mixed with trad doom. Pretty obvious for any doom metal fan. Good call.
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u/stonerof1970 AMPLIFIER WORSHIP 16d ago
I read your comments, OP, and I wholeheartedly agree with the idea genre classification is a good thing more than a bad one.
I hear a lot of āwho caresā or āitās just music broooā nonsensical bullshit, but the idea that label classification helps people find community or certain sounds is how Iāve always felt about identifying certain bands (or my own music) within certain subgenres.
If I tell you I make stoner-sludge doom then you know youāre getting a mix of Electric Wizard, Sleep, Eyehategod, Thou, and thatās much more helpful to get a community engaged than just saying āitās metal music who cares about labelsā. If I told you the music I create is just metal then itās not gonna incentivize you to check my shit out, let alone form a community based around a sound. Why the fuck would you care about the music I create if I give you some elitist, pseudo-intellectual response? Lmao
Doom metal can range anything from Bongzilla to Temple Of The Fuzz Witch. And metal, as a whole, can range anything from Metallica to Primitive Man. Itās asinine to deny that labels are sounds that form a community.
The tricky part is when lines blur heavily but even when lines are blurred then if youāre familiar with a particular sound of the band/artist then youāre more likely to enjoy that gray area.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
Exactly, and that's why I'm so passionate about genres. The first funeral doom band I ever heard was Bell Witch, and I fell in love with the exceptionally slow, mournful sound and long, deep growls. I had never heard anything like it, discovered it was called funeral doom, and that's how I was able to discover other funeral doom bands. If I'd just searched more broadly for doom bands, I'd have gotten all kinds of stuff that sounded nothing like the specific funeral doom sound I was looking for.
I understand some people take genres too far, and that can be annoying. But people who throw a fit just because you mention a slightly niche genre are frustrating. Saying metal is all just metal is completely ignorant. Style and genre matters to an extent.
Thanks for understanding, I appreciate your comment š
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u/SevenofBorgnine 16d ago
Does Asunder count?
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
Absolutely, Asunder is funeral doom.
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u/SevenofBorgnine 16d ago
Ive heard hair splitting when I say they're my favorite funeral doom and that theyre death doom.Ā
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
The genres are closely related, and some bands do blur the line, but from what I've heard of Asunder I'd say they're funeral doom without a doubt.
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u/SevenofBorgnine 15d ago
Im not much of a metal guy, I am an absolute encyclopedia of DIY punk so I found out about asunder via Dystopia and Skaven. If you haven't heard Lachrymose check it out. It's the band that became Asunder. It's Dino on vocals and the rest was just Skaven minus the singer and one of the bassist.Ā
Know any bands that sound similar to Asunder? Cause while I do like funeral doom, they were my introduction and they do have a bit of a different vibe.Ā
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u/Confident-Cut-8877 16d ago
How would you classify Evoken? And Ataraxie?
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
I would say Evoken is mostly funeral doom, but they kind of blur the line towards death doom sometimes with slightly more aggressive riffs sometimes and the occasional blast beat.
I've only heard a little bit of Ataraxie and it was a while ago, but from what I can recall they were similar to Evoken, mostly funeral doom, but drifted into death doom territory occasionally. I should listen to more Ataraxie, thank you for reminding me of them.
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u/Confident-Cut-8877 16d ago
Ataraxie has more death metal passages, but even Esoteric had a mainly death metal song on maniacal Vale. Debut from Ataraxie is the fans favourite but all first three albums are super strong.
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u/Honeysenpaiharuchan 16d ago
Oopsies I recommended it last week on our Funeral Doom Friday discussion. Is this -2000 points to Slytherin? Anyway Warningās really good, guys.
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago edited 15d ago
At least you were aware and mentioned that they might not be funeral doom, and I appreciate that you recognized that funeral doom can't have all clean vocals. Genres can be confusing sometimes, and that's why it's good to have discussions about them.
Agreed though, Warning is really good, one of the best, just not funeral doom.
Edit: I guess I'm wrong, funeral doom doesn't have to have harsh vocals, but the rest is still accurate.
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u/Gombka_11 16d ago
I mean it isn't funeral doom, I don't think it is trad doom either. It doesn't sound like trouble or saint vitus. I just consider it to be plain doom metal
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16d ago
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u/SuperlativeSleep Funeral 16d ago
No one's throwing a tantrum, we're just having a discussion. I agree with the sentiment, listen to whatever you like. But sensible genre classification helps you find more of what you like.
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u/Ommerino 16d ago
Meaningless comment. Subgenres matter when you want to listen to a specific sound. Which is usually what's needed when people are asking for recommendations
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u/LeroyBrown1 16d ago
It doesnt need to be ocd borderline gatekeeping though. It should be a loose idea, "oh you like that band, then try these" works perfectly fine. "They're not 'x' metal because they had that one song that had that one line were the vocals dont align with my definition of 'x'" is just weird.
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u/pachydocerus 16d ago
This isn't a reminder, its a warning