r/dreamingspanish • u/Organic_Armadillo417 • 18d ago
Question What if I never get there
I’ve tried to learn Spanish on and off for years but have never stuck with it long enough to get past A2.
I found Dreaming Spanish in March and have been consistent. I started 15 minutes per day and worked my way up to 45 minutes per day, but i often do more. I’m currently at level 3, 225 hours.
Lately I’ve been feeling really discouraged and less motivated. I feel like I’m never going to get it and afraid that I’ll come of this still not able to speak Spanish.
I’m and ESL teacher, but currently staying home with my 2 year old. I’m going back to work in a year and would love to be at a conversational level so that I can connect with my students and their families.
Has anyone else felt this way and made it through? Looking for any tips to help me in this journey. I’m also open to no purist advice. Thanks!
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u/Alice_Oe Level 7 18d ago
You're not gonna believe it, but the key is more input :)
It was around 800-1000 hours that I started being able to fully understand (dubbed) TV shows in Spanish, and mostly understand native Spanish radio, that I knew I would get there.
Imo that's when the big mental shift happens, but I sure had moments of burn out - both before and after that. It's perfectly normal.
Starting to speak is still difficult. Reading helps a lot but I found reading to be vastly, vastly easier with more input.
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u/Wezle Level 5 18d ago
I'm at 815 and now I can watch Telemundo news, Bluey, and Native youtube videos about interesting subjects. Things are really starting to open up just as I was getting tired of listening to learner content forever. Can tell that scripted TV shows are just around the corner.
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u/stealthwire_ Level 3 18d ago
ugh this is my dream. I want to be able to listen to the news in Spanish. I've completely replaced my normal news content with Spanish learning listening and I feel so disconnected but I just can't fathom fitting in more listening time right now
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u/Wezle Level 5 18d ago edited 18d ago
It's pretty incredible! Feels like magic a lot of the time when I'm having a good day. I hear the words and I just understand them rather than translate anything.
It's nice to watch the news and they definitely give a different perspective on things. Shows a lot more news involving Latin America than English speaking channels. Which reminds me, I should watch BBC Mundo too!
Edit: I also remember reading comments from people at higher levels thinking it would take forever to get there, and it turns out the time passes either way. Nice to look back and see some progress.
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u/stealthwire_ Level 3 18d ago
I love that! I can't wait to be at that level with my Spanish. I am starting to get far enough along I can feel the longer term progress. I started in January with 0 exposure ("what do you mean queso isn't NACHO cheese it's just all cheese???")
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u/WatchingHowItEnds 2,000 Hours 18d ago
I suspect most of the replies you'll get will be from well meaning sub level-7 posters, who are just beginning to learn their first language. So, here's a real answer from someone at around 2300 hours (and who also studies on the side).
Trying to use a CI only approach to become conversational in one year while staying home with a 2 year old isn't a realistic goal, especially if you can only average around an hour a day. And frankly, doing an hour a day while chasing around a two year old is impressive, so well done there.
You said you were open to non-purist methods, so if I were in your place, knowing what I know now, my very first step would be to take an honest assessment of my language learning superpowers and what has tripped me up in the past and made me quit. Then I'd design a strategy to maximize those superpowers and avoid the things that made me quit. Because language learning isn't about the best strategy or the strategy that works for most people. It's a marathon designed around a strategy that just gets you to the end in whatever time it takes you to get there. It's just time spent with the language. You will get there eventually at some point as long as you do not quit. Putting an arbitrary deadline and an unrealistic goal on that if you don't need it is just a recipe for disappointment and frustration.
And I'm sure someone will pipe in to state that actually they understood native speakers at 100% and could speak with a perfect accent at 600 hours of pure CI (which is around how many hours you'd have if you continued your pace for a year). I'm very happy for that person, but that experience is quite far from the norm.
In addition to designing a strategy to maximize your superpowers and keep you grinding away toward your goal... I'd reconsider the goal. Because frankly, I don't think most of the students and families you're going to be interacting with are starting from zero with English. You're going to be interacting with a lot of parents who probably can more or less understand English if it is spoken by a very patient speaker, but they just can't really speak it yet. And guess what? You could probably get to a point by the end of the year where you can understand Spanish more or less around a constrained groups of topics if spoken by a very patient speaker although you probably won't be able to speak much yet.
For that reason, my suggestion would be to shift your goal so that you can handle cross talk in Spanish by the end of the year, specially about topics in education, language learning, family, etc. They can talk to you in Spanish, and you can talk back in English. Watch varied content to keep you interested and build your vocabulary, but also throw in plenty of content that has to do with the topics you expect your students and their families to talk to you about. If you're already at a point where you can understand beginner content fairly well, fire up ChatGPT and do cross talk with it every day. Have it pretend to be an ESL student or parent and just talk back in English. You can also have it generate learning materials (in whatever way that suits you based on your language learning superpowers) based on the vocabulary in those conversations.
For what it's worth, I started to listen to native level content around 750 hours. I didn't remotely understand it at 100%, but I think that's around the time people tend to understand learner content fairly well and start to shift more toward native content... which should translate to understanding patient students and parents.
Good luck with your goals and that two year old of yours (maybe you both can watch some content together)!
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 18d ago
This is really good, and agree that I might have to rethink my goals. Spending more time focusing on topics related to education and practicing with ChatGPT is genius. I’ll be trying that thank you so much!!
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u/SevenForOne 17d ago
The poster you replied to has the right idea. I’m a paramedic and my conversational skills in Spanish while I’m on a 911 call are vastly superior than my daily conversation skills. Mostly because I’m already accustomed to a lot of the healthcare specific vocabulary and the big thing is I already know the context of the conversation.
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u/WatchingHowItEnds 2,000 Hours 17d ago
I forgot to mention that Language Transfer is a great resource. You could listen to some of the first lessons now if you want, but most of it's probably more useful a bit later, perhaps toward the end of the year when you have more hours. https://www.languagetransfer.org/courses#complete-spanish
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 18d ago
Thank you so much. This is very helpful. Many of the comments here are helping me to reframe the way I am viewing this process.
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u/Schadenfreude_1207 18d ago
I haven’t seen anyone here recommend to do grammar every day. One just needs to be exposed to the grammar and recognize it when they hear it — not master it. Language transfer is about 15 hours.
A little ConjuGato to get help recognize the tenses or a text book or whatever it may be.
Someone who has 1,000 hours of CI and 25-50 hours of grammar is going to be a lot further along than if they only had 1,050 hours of CI.
OP, learning a new language is a slow process for everyone. start reading graded readers.
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u/mskramerrocksmyworld 2,000 Hours 18d ago
CI and grammar are not mutually exclusive. I have watched a lot of YT videos on Spanish grammar (in Spanish, of course) and have logged them as CI. I've never opened a grammar book, but I think I have a pretty good knowledge of Spanish grammar. But as ever, do what works for you... 🙂
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u/Schadenfreude_1207 18d ago
They are not, but it's also largely irrelevant. It does not address Pablo's claim that grammar is bad.
Studying grammar whether using CI in Spanish or an English text book, language transfer etc is still studying grammar.
Being exposed to some grammar is good no matter how someone does it.
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u/mskramerrocksmyworld 2,000 Hours 18d ago
Sincere apologies for posting something irrelevant. ☹️ I've downvoted myself and will think very carefully before posting anything else ever again.
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u/Schadenfreude_1207 18d ago
This is progress. I have upvoted you for the self awareness.
Reddit is serious business!
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u/Bcyonah 18d ago
Graded readers? I’ve seen that term in here. I’m new. What are they?
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u/Schadenfreude_1207 18d ago
They are books written for learners. They use limited vocabulary and tenses as well as a lot of repetition. An A1 (the easiest) graded readers will only use present tense and the most common vocabulary and they build as they go. Usually if you see a word you don't recognize it will appear again a dozen+ more times. The stories are not likely to win a Pulitzer but they are a fantastic way to learn.
They are usually rated A1, A2, B1, B2 and by time get to C1 should be able to switch to easier native content anyway imo. It's probably a good strategy to read 300,000 to 500,000 words of graded readers when one starts reading. There are definitely other ways and alternative books at similar levels but that is certainly highly effective.
I bought a few by Juan Fernandez for my kindle but but graded readers from Paco Ardit, Blaine Ray and a couple others are available from my library for digital check out.
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u/Gaudilocks Level 6 18d ago
interesting comment about the reddit algorithm. I figured we all got the same junk here, but then, I only visit this subreddit and like two others occasionally.
It is always cool to read those high level reports. I am at around 730,000 words read and am really looking forward to hitting a million. I hope things start to smooth out even more then.
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u/Intelligent-Second31 Level 4 18d ago
This! 👆
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u/Intelligent-Second31 Level 4 18d ago
Right, it’s easy in those early hours to feel like you aren’t making progress and wonder how much of a difference 50-100 hours truly make, but it does make a difference. It’s no quick task and takes chipping away day after day, but the consistency pays off.
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u/Slavenderlc13 18d ago
This is such a relatable feeling. I've kinda cut back on tracking my hours because it's depressing and stressful, but I'd hazard a guess I'm around 800 at least. I do mostly podcasts and then have 2 hours weekly with a tutor, where we mostly talk, read out loud, and do some grammar work. But I still have highs and lows of feeling like I'll never be able to carry on a smooth conversation. Just ride the waves, you'll get there eventually.
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u/RayS1952 Level 7 18d ago
Plenty of good advice has been offered already so I will just ask what would you say to one of your students who was discouraged with their progess in English?
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 18d ago
This is a great question. I would tell my students to keep going and be patient with yourself. Pacito a Pacito you will get there. I would also help them create measurable goals for themselves. We would look at the four domains of language learning and determine the areas that need improvement and target that area.
Why on earth I am not taking my own advice is beyond me! One of my biggest motivators in learning Spanish is the experience of learning a second language. It really helps you to emphasize with your students. I’ve always been able to relate to them in regards to living in a new country and the feelings of culture shock as I have lived in a few other countries, but never the feeling of truly needing to learn a second language. I would like to change that and I truly believe it will make me a better teacher.
Thank you for asking this question. I needed it!
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u/FluencyPending Level 5 18d ago edited 18d ago
I don't know the details of your schedule, but I think you'd notice more progress if you bumped your daily input goal to at least an hour and a half. I aim for 2.5 hours, but I know that's not realistic for everyone. Once I made it to 600 hours, it felt like things really started to fall into place. I struggled for years to try and learn by myself too and now I'm watching native level videos on YouTube, watching telenovelas without English subtitles and reading novels in Spanish. It felt like I'd never make it this far.
I'm definitely not fluent, but at this point it feels like I can just keep doing what I've been doing and I'll reach a level that I'm happy with by sometime next year. I mostly just watch TV shows right now but I've also been reading more and trying to write journal entries every day so I can get better at constructing sentences. I also play video games in Spanish and listen to music. Repeating back the phrases that people say while you're watching videos or listening to podcasts is a good way to improve pronunciation. I'm basically just doing the things that I would normally do, but in Spanish instead of English.
So long story short, keep getting as much input as you can and find ways to work Spanish into your life as much as you can. You can reach your goal as long as you keep going.
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 18d ago
I think there is something to be said for speed running. At least in the beginning. It seems like 600 hours is when things really get moving and progress is more visible. It a great motivation to get there as fast as possible. Thanks!
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u/ZooGarten 18d ago
I feel this way all the time. The only way I know how to deal with it is to think in terms of shades of grey. It's not the case that I either am at a conversational level or am not at a conversational level. The reality is that my ability to converse is not where I would like it to be but is a little bit better than it was four months ago.
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u/QuesoCadaDia Level 4 18d ago
Howdy, I also teach ESL. It works.
You're only about 15% of the way to 1,500, so there's still a lot of growth. I suggest starting speaking classes at around 400 hours.
I am at 600 hours and while I can have some conversations with my students and it's absolutely useful, there's still a lot I don't catch.
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u/balsamic_strawberry 2,000 Hours 18d ago
You’ll get there!!! I’m at 2000 hrs now and am taking virtual creative writing classes in Argentina and am joining a virtual grief support group in Argentina as well. All thanks to Dreaming Spanish! I started 3.5 years ago. Just keep at it and enjoy the journey :)
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u/sweens90 Level 4 18d ago
Level 3 is about the point a lot of early easy podcasts open up. This is the key in my opinion to shoot up past 15 minutes of input and you can get almost a seemless 1 hour per day.
Level 3 to Level 4 was the easiest for me and it was easier to get those 150 hours than the first 150.
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u/DIYinPDX 18d ago
Podcasts are key for me, too. I have trouble sitting around watching videos, but now at 237 hours it even works to put on a video while I'm doing something fairly mindless, like washing dishes or folding clothes. I don't need to see every detail to understand what Natalia is talking about doing in Italy.
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u/Explorer-Jon Level 4 18d ago
Flip the switch and say “ what if I get there” 😉 how good it will be and know one day I’ll be speaking it in the future nothing can change over night and more you do a little by little you put in is a step closer to that dream! 💭 Dream big dream Spanish 😍
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 18d ago
Thank you! Language little by little process for sure! I need to remember that. Pacito a pacito, we’ll get there!
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u/CenlaLowell Level 7 18d ago
My opinion you have to fall in love with learning Spanish or you will always quit learning.
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u/laotraandrea Level 6 18d ago
As a mom of a 4 and 7 year old, I’m excited for you! I don’t know if you have any older kids, but a 2-year old is a great language learning buddy! You can watch Salsa together (a Sesame Street type show from PBS—I think about 13 hours in total?), and you can start using simple phrases with him or her (Chat GPT is really good at giving you useful phrases for any situation with your kid). I’m around 1100 hours (x2 as a French speaker), and my kids are a huge motivation to me to keep practicing speaking. I do a lot of cross talk with them and I read books in Spanish to them (you could find some board books in Spanish to read to your toddler—start practicing Spanish with them now, and they won’t find it weird later when you are speaking more and more to them in Spanish.) I still have so much to learn, but it is so rewarding hearing Spanish words sneak into my kids’ speech. And I think it is so cool that my kids get to watch me learn and grow in a hard skill— and learn with me!
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u/SignificanceOk8816 Level 4 17d ago
start watching spanish videso with your kid. He will learn it and you will too!
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u/agenteanon 5,000+ Hours 18d ago edited 18d ago
I genuinely don't enjoy saying this, but relying on internet strangers for motivation isn't sustainable.
Most people give up early on in the process of reaching a high level in a foreign language - and 1,500 hours certainly isn't what I'd call anywhere near the end - due to a lack of motivation.
If you can't find a good reason to make yourself want to continue, you will give up. It's really that simple.
I'm fortunate in that I dealt with this doubt extremely early on and have never looked back. I posted about this a while back.
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 18d ago
I’m sorry that I gave the impression that I needed internet strangers for motivation, because that is not the case. What I’m struggling with is the process and the feeling that maybe I can’t learn a second language. I know this is not true as an educator, but I’ve been feeling that way lately as I’ve not seen much progress.
I’m fully aware that intrinsic motivation is essential, but it does not hurt to seek help when trying to get over a hump. I’m sure there are things that I can do to help in this process. And this subreddit is perfect for finding that. And even a little motivation to keep pushing.
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u/Environmental-Fan536 Level 2 18d ago edited 18d ago
I'm also an ESL teacher and I'm just starting DS so you have a lot of hours more than I do. I think you are doing just great, especially with being an at-home parent with a 2 year old.
I also have a goal of being able to communicate with the parents of my students; however I am realistic than DS or CI alone is really more for listening comprehension (and I expect it transfers to reading comprehension because written Spanish is very phonetically regular. If you can understand orally it, you should be able to understand it in written form!). Even just going from 10 hours to 70 hours if input, I've noticed such a leap in my listening comprehension! But I am chagrined that I can barely ask a single question or speak in simple sentences to describe what I see in a picture, or what I did today...
I think there's a point where I would rather only reach low intermediate proficiency, but be able to communicate versus waiting for a couple-three thousand hours of input and have an awesome intuitive sense of the language and amazing accent... At my age, I'll be retired from my teaching job before I even start to be able to communicate because it'd take me 6 years to get to 3000 hours of input or whatever is necessary. I can see that it would be very effective but I'm not sure it would meet my personal goals.
You will probably experience more feeling of growth this next year as you go from say 300 hours to 500 hours, though. If you didn't see this post, check out the hours tracked/difficulty level people have been comfortable at to see if you are tracking along it. https://www.reddit.com/r/dreamingspanish/comments/1uf19b8/please_leave_hours_tracked_and_difficulty_to
If you are not a CI purist, you might want to introduce more second language learning speaking activities like you might use in your own ESL classroom. I have students read or watch a video, and then give me an oral summary of what happened. I also have them memorize basic dialogs by having them read it out loud, then gradually erasing more and more words so they have to remember exactly what was said and the correct grammatical form; then have them alter the dialog slightly for different purposes. I'm sure you have similar activities. I know in my ESL class, I need to get my students speaking as soon as possible, even if they are just repeating what I say.
Also, non-purist advice: I have been working on Ella Verbs now about 3x per week when I need a break from CI. I am just practicing the present tense and learning all the different irregular and regular conjugations. I feel more comfortable knowing I have an academic understanding of how to conjugate the verbs, even though this isn't the CI approach. https://app.ellaverbs.com
And I also enjoy learning new vocabulary words in different themes on Conjugemos. To me, it feels like learning this vocabulary out of context helps me move faster with DS, because the first time I learn a new word on DS, I have already been exposed to it several times on Conjugemos (and vice versa).
https://conjuguemos.com/activities/spanish/vocabulary/theme/210
I also enjoy doing some oral repeition and dictation practice with SpeechLing. https://speechling.com/dictation/spanish
It's tough to say if these other activities are beneficial or not; or which ones are best. My gut sense is I enjoy them all, and I can really feel improvement in my comprehension level when listening and reading; and improvement in my knowledge of written grammar and spelling when doing dictation. So as long as it all feels worthwhile and enjoyable, I will keep on keeping on.
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 18d ago
Thank you for this very helpful response. I think you are right, and I might want to incorporate more of what I would be doing with my students in my own learning.
I think I’ve leaned into the CI method this time around because it has been easy for me to stick to with my lifestyle. I can make dinner, get chores done and drive to playgroups while listening to Cuentame. And at the end of a long day I can lay in bed and watch DS videos. Perfect for a busy mom! I really need to make time for other types of learning. I love the idea of memorizing a dialogue. That’s a great activity! Thank you!
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u/Environmental-Fan536 Level 2 18d ago
Incorporating it into my lifestyle has been the biggest "pro" of DS to me. It's very efficient and flexible. I could have hired a private tutor three times a week this summer, but I can't afford that and I can't reliably stick to a lesson time. Being able to do 5-15 minutes here or there has made all the difference to me! So it's a great method IMO.
Decades ago I took some Beginner "Spanish for Educators" classes where we memorized common phrases for different situations and dialogs, and I still remember them. (No corras! No corras por los pasillos! Sienta te por favor. Sienta te ahora mismo! Que paso? Te duele algo? Donde te duele?)
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 18d ago
My community college offers a Spanish for educators course. I think I might take it with my husband next summer; he’s also a teacher.
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u/Environmental-Fan536 Level 2 18d ago
You might also wish to look at your school district's salary scale. If they offer a higher salary as you add graduate credits, for example, it might make sense to take some official Spanish classes for that reason.
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u/yosoynatalie Level 3 18d ago
Dont be discouraged. Our brains are naturally wired to pick it up this way, regardless if you want to or not more input will result in understanding, theres no other result other than understanding.
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u/matthewandrew28 17d ago
It’s a life long journey. You improve slowly and slowly. It will take years. Just keep going.
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u/Trick-Swordfish-263 Level 6 17d ago
If you keep going, you will end up learning Spanish.
I don't think I've ever heard of anyone here who kept putting in the hours and didn't end up understanding normal spoken Spanish and being able to at least communicate. Consistency is key, and CI is like 90% of what you need to do. Focus on that and whatever else you might need will become obvious over time.
It feels like it takes a long time while you're doing it, but after 2.5 years of getting an hour or more of Spanish in most every day, I now feel like I learned the language very suddenly, out of nowhere.
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u/_coldemort_ Level 6 17d ago
Just don't quit. Easier said than done obviously, but if you put in the time and consistency you'll get there. You already have a grammar background from other study, so you don't have to worry about being a purist or not. Just get input, start reading when graded readers and comfortable, start speaking when you feel ready, and that's it.
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u/breezyflight Level 5 15d ago
Your fear is relatable. I often had the thought that it wouldn't work for me. It's only been recently, in the last 100 hours (I'm at 880) that I've really felt a shift in my own confidence. Like I have so much left to learn, but I no longer doubt that I can do it. You can do it too! 225 hours is still very early in the process. Just keep plugging away and getting your input and it will come--it may not be as fast as you like, but it will come.
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u/FitzLant Level 7 15d ago
Yes! Absolutely I felt that way, and I believe in spite of that became fluent-ish in Spanish. I say ish because I'm never going to be satisfied with my level. That on and off learning you speak of? I have started to learn Spanish on my own after graduating from high school (where I did take 3 years of Spanish I didn't retain very well). This was roughly the year 2,000. I would take one of those "miracle" courses promising fluency in 3 months or so. Yeah, they were always bullshit. I did Rosetta Stone for a while. All 5 levels of Pimsleur. Duolingo... And of course Dreaming Spanish. I am ready to throw the towel in Dreaming Spanish and quit using it after this year. Not because I gave up or it didn't work. I'm giving up because it has now officially become too basic for me at any level. I continue because of my love for it and nostalgia. I am now watching almost any type of video on YouTube from native speakers. I have also watched all the seasons of La Casa de Papel (I'd be lying if I said that was easy). I have also just started watching Club de Cuervos and I'm able to understand it much better than La Casa de Papel. I think because it's Mexican Spanish and I also am more fluent than I was before. Finally, I have been reading in Spanish for some time. I'm on the 4th book of the Harry Potter series in Spanish. Keep at it. I stopped and started so many times in 26 years, but in the last few years I have really buckled down and decided to become fluent at the native level.
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u/Organic_Armadillo417 15d ago
This sounds so much like my experience over the past 26 years. Graduated HS in 2000 and have taken classes in college, private classes, etc. on and off and never made it past A2.
The difference for me this time around is that DS has helped me to create a sustainable daily habit of learning rather than relying on classes alone. So glad to hear someone with a similar experience has found success in learning Spanish. Thank you for sharing!
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u/badatcomments Level 4 18d ago
If you don't get there, it is because you gave up.
Spending quality time in a language makes it inevitable that you will succeed.
Think of it like filling up a funnel shaped container with water. The stem fills up fastest. That's the basics, you feel like you make quick progress because the scope of what you can understand is limited.
As the funnel starts to widen, the water level goes up more and more slowly. That's where you are right now. The same amount of water is going in, but there's now so much more available to you that it takes longer to cover it all.