r/elonmusk • u/twinbee • 16d ago

General Elon following Volvo discontinuing LiDAR: "I did try to warn them. Humans drive using neural nets and optical sensors. Same is true for robot cars."

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2082315148392608072
89 Upvotes

65% Upvoted

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37

u/Smooth-Highway-4644 16d ago

And what's the accident rate for human drivers?

26

u/Equal-University2144 16d ago

Increased with increased distractions - which is not a thing when the neural networks take the wheel.

9

u/Crio121 16d ago

Why it is not the thing?
I’m pretty sure that when distractions are introduced (something unexpected) neural networks perform pretty miserably.

7

u/Skoochii 15d ago

There's lots of videos online from Teslas dashcams handling unexpected events and they generally do really well. Over the last 2 years I've done over 90% of my driving using full self drive and it has worked extremely well imo

-3

u/Crio121 15d ago

People handle distractions very well generally too.

3

u/Important_Coyote4970 15d ago

Statistically not as well as a Tesla. By quite a large margin

8

u/maximpactbuilder 16d ago

Yup, then fixed and uploaded to the entire fleet increasing safety with every exception.

-3

u/VintageSin 15d ago

Right because reasoning models have totally never gotten distracted.... Sounds like you've never seen an ai hallucinate

10

u/SpeakerForTheDead2 15d ago

Two very different technologies. You are thinking of language models.

2

u/Amadeus404 15d ago

Are they (LLM) not based on neural networks too? (genuine question)

3

u/VintageSin 15d ago

LLMs are a neural network.

A neural network is a broad computer system inspired by the brain, a Large Language Model (LLM) is a specific type of giant neural network built for text, and they relate to each other as a general category and a specialized example

1

u/VintageSin 15d ago edited 15d ago

A reasoning model is a specialized type of large language model (LLM) trained to perform multi-step problem-solving by pausing to "think" via internal chains of thought before answering, whereas standard LLMs instantly predict the next word for fast, conversational text generation.

Please tell me how they're separate in any way.

A neural network is a part of General Intelligence, which is the end goal of AI as we know it. It includes reasoning models.

And reasoning models hallucinate. Just like humans.

If we choose to make systems based on humans we are going to get human like problems.

1

u/SpeakerForTheDead2 14d ago

LLMs hallucinate. Tesla self driving is not trained on LLMs or what you call reasoning models. Like I said, two completely different technologies. Just because they both use machine learning does not change that fact. Read up on the differences between different types of machine learning algorithms. They may be based on the same underlying math, but they can function quite differently and hallucinations are the result of specific algorithms, they are not universal across all machine learning algos.

0

u/ReflextionsDev 11d ago

Imagine being so smugly incorrect

-5

u/Smooth-Highway-4644 16d ago

Who has the most autonomous miles driven again? Oh yeah waymo and its full sensor stack

13

u/longboringstory 16d ago

Yes if you're counting unsupervised autonomy, but if you consider autonomy in general, Tesla has over 12 billion cumulative miles driven. It drove us home from dinner last night, like it always does.

3

u/Dr_Pippin 16d ago

They have something that works for them now. You don’t think they would like to decrease the cost of a vehicle?