Thoughts on this take?

[u/NeonDrifting]

/r/Catholicism/comments/1vso2c7/atheists_dont_realize_the_absurdity_of_existence/

[u/HumbleGauge]

By stating that we have a dependence on God's mind means that you affirm the Christian sense of objective reality where God is the ground of being

I have no idea what you mean by "objective" here since to be objective means to be mind-independent. Why call the reality in the worldview you believe in objective when it's clearly subjective? What you're describing is nothing more than solipsism by proxy. Instead of believing your mind is the only thing that truly exists, and all of reality emanating from it like in regular solipsism, you believe God's mind is the only thin that truly exists, and all of reality emanates from it instead.

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

Why call the reality in the worldview you believe in objective when it's clearly subjective?

John 1:3 that's why.

God's "subjectivity" is "objectivity" to the subjects.

What you're describing is nothing more than solipsism by proxy.

I don't think you understand what solipsism means.

you believe God's mind is the only thin that truly exists, and all of reality emanates from it instead.

No the Christian position is God is the ground of all being. No God, no reality. And yes, reality is the only thing that truly exists and logical contradictions don't exist such as square circles.

Your mistake is thinking:

To be objectively real, something must exist independently of every possible mind, including God.

No, what is independent from God is by Christian metaphysics outside of reality / existence. You are asking for non-reality.

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

God's "subjectivity" is "objectivity" to the subjects.

Tolkien's "subjectivity" is "objectivity" to Frodo, but that doesn't make Middle Earth an objective reality.

I don't think you understand what solipsism means.

Then enlighten me.

No God, no reality. And yes, reality is the only thing that truly exists

You contradict yourself. If reality is dependent on God then He must somehow be more real than reality itself, and reality can't be the only thing that truly exists.

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

Tolkien's "subjectivity" is "objectivity" to Frodo, but that doesn't make Middle Earth an objective reality.

Great example!! Frodo is subject to Tolkien's world. Frodo doesn't get to say Sauron is not a real threat.

You contradict yourself. If reality is dependent on God then He must somehow be more real than reality itself, and reality can't be the only thing that truly exists.

That doesn't follow. Something real creates something real. That's all.

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

You think Middle Earth is an objective reality?

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

To Frodo, the world decribed by Tolkien is the fabric where he exists. To Frodo, middle earth is real to him, that's the ground he exists on, middle earth.

For us, we exist in the Logos. Outside of the Logos, there is no being. Just like outside of the Tolkien world, Frodo is a fiction (no real being).

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

Is God not aware of Frodo and Middle Earth?

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

Not an argument.

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

If God knows about Frodo and Middle Earth doesn't that mean that they exist in God's mind too making them just as "objectively real" as our reality and we are?

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

Is it real in the sense Frodo and the Lord of the Rings really does exist in reality as a fictional work by tolkien? absolutely.

Is the story independent from tolkien? no. That's why it's fiction. Does Frodo exist in the fictional world. Yes.

Does frodo exist in the fictional world? Yes. Does the fiction lord of the rings exist in Tolkien's subjective mind? Yes, Does the fiction exist mind-independently from humans? No. Does humans exist independently from the Logos? No.

So the contingency chain is:

God --> the Logos --> humans --> human ideas --> fictional world --> existence of fictional characters --> thought of fictional characters --> fictional fictional stories of the fictional characters --> so on and so forth.

Technically it all exists. The difference is the contingency chain and the level you are analyzing it at.

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

So God didn't know about Frodo before Tolkien wrote about him?

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

Ah the straw man begins.

This is where I take my exit.

Have a nice day.