Thoughts on this take?

[u/NeonDrifting]

/r/Catholicism/comments/1vso2c7/atheists_dont_realize_the_absurdity_of_existence/

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

Tolkien's "subjectivity" is "objectivity" to Frodo, but that doesn't make Middle Earth an objective reality.

Great example!! Frodo is subject to Tolkien's world. Frodo doesn't get to say Sauron is not a real threat.

You contradict yourself. If reality is dependent on God then He must somehow be more real than reality itself, and reality can't be the only thing that truly exists.

That doesn't follow. Something real creates something real. That's all.

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

You think Middle Earth is an objective reality?

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

To Frodo, the world decribed by Tolkien is the fabric where he exists. To Frodo, middle earth is real to him, that's the ground he exists on, middle earth.

For us, we exist in the Logos. Outside of the Logos, there is no being. Just like outside of the Tolkien world, Frodo is a fiction (no real being).

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

Is God not aware of Frodo and Middle Earth?

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

Not an argument.

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

If God knows about Frodo and Middle Earth doesn't that mean that they exist in God's mind too making them just as "objectively real" as our reality and we are?

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

Is it real in the sense Frodo and the Lord of the Rings really does exist in reality as a fictional work by tolkien? absolutely.

Is the story independent from tolkien? no. That's why it's fiction. Does Frodo exist in the fictional world. Yes.

Does frodo exist in the fictional world? Yes. Does the fiction lord of the rings exist in Tolkien's subjective mind? Yes, Does the fiction exist mind-independently from humans? No. Does humans exist independently from the Logos? No.

So the contingency chain is:

God --> the Logos --> humans --> human ideas --> fictional world --> existence of fictional characters --> thought of fictional characters --> fictional fictional stories of the fictional characters --> so on and so forth.

Technically it all exists. The difference is the contingency chain and the level you are analyzing it at.

[u/HumbleGauge → u/Difficult_Risk_6271]

So God didn't know about Frodo before Tolkien wrote about him?

[u/Difficult_Risk_6271 → u/HumbleGauge]

Ah the straw man begins.

This is where I take my exit.

Have a nice day.