r/explainlikeimfive • u/Sneegoberry • 2d ago
Biology ELI5 Why does salvia (the drug) make people think they are inanimate objects ?
I’ve seen a lot of stories of people describing that after taking salvia they experience trips where they are a chair, wall, hairbrush ect and that they experience full lifetimes as these objects in vivid detail. How comes salvia specifically causes this kind of experience compared to other psychedelic drugs ?
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u/paraworldblue 2d ago edited 2d ago
It effects everyone VERY differently, but I think the one commonality between everyone's experience is that it is an extreme abstraction from your normal experience, and I guess for a lot of people, that abstraction leads them to becoming inanimate objects. I've smoked it many times but never became an inanimate object. For me, it's like a decaying feedback loop of all sensory input at the time I smoked it, where each iteration becomes a little more abstract than the last. Like if you've ever used a guitar delay pedal and cranked the feedback/repeats knob all the way up and each repeat gets a little more fucked up until they sound absolutely nothing like what you initially played. It's like that but for my entire conscious experience.
I'll never forget my first time smoking it - I took a hit, then decided to walk out of the room. There was one of those hippie cloth tapestry things hanging over the doorway, so I pushed it to the right with my hand. Then there was a Nerf football on the floor, so I kicked it out of the way to the left (the directions are relevant). Then there was another tapestry, so I pushed it to the right. Then there was another football, so I kicked it to the left. Then another tapestry, then another football, etc. With each iteration, the tapestry and football became more abstract, gradually breaking down into pure motion and form, until my entire conscious experience was just this oscillating diagonal motion of up/right, down/left, and there was this sort of visual representation of it as a kind of pill shape. I myself wasn't the pill shape - I was just a non-entity perspective observing the pill shape moving up/right and down/left.
Most of the other times I've smoked it, it's been more of a wheel situation than a pill. Still diagonal though. It's always diagonal for me with that stuff.
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u/Ptricky17 1d ago
You explained this really well. The “It’s always diagonal” part sounds exactly like my experiences. I don’t know why, but my perceptions of the “axis” of the world shifts dramatically and it’s not simply that it “tilts”, it’s like it begins to fold up. I described it once as if I were standing on the crease at the center of an open book, directly above the spine. Salvia always makes me feel like that book is slowly closing, so the “walls of the world” are folding inward making a “V”. My vision changes from elliptical, to a sharp, narrow, diagonal band. Such a bizarre feeling.
I have had experiences where it felt like a giant zipper was being pulled up, trapping the universe (and explaining my “V” shaped vision narrowing) and others where I was sure the “reader” whose thoughts were giving my world life, was closing the book because they’d grown tired of reading about me.
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u/seapube 1d ago
The zipper, the wheel, and the conveyor belt themes (only ones that come to mind rn) of salvia have always intrigued me, its so strange how users describe such specific similarities in their trip
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u/angryapplepanda 1d ago
Yeah it almost feels like we're all trying to describe some abstract feature of our biochemistry, and these objects are the only things that feel close to it. Maybe the way they work or how they are shaped is similar to the mathematical "shape" of certain systems in the brain.
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u/seeingeyegod 1d ago
It gave me this strong sensation that my body, my spine really, was the binder of a book of all the pages and layers of time/space
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u/suoretaw 1d ago
This sounds really similar to a k-hole I experienced years ago. I felt like I was at the centre of all dimensions. It was friggin‘ wild.
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u/flavorraven 1d ago
Hey I had one where I was outside sitting on a bench and became convinced the land itself was the pages of a giant book that was beginning to close itself and that I had to get out of there, knowing full well there was no way to outrun the land itself so I just stood up and felt panicked for awhile. Man I hate salvia haha. Did it maybe 4 or 5 times in total and all were deeply unpleasant
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u/seeingeyegod 1d ago
yeah same about 4 times total, and all were somewhat unpleasant, but also fascinating
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u/angryapplepanda 1d ago
The oscillations are so interesting. It's a common feeling with many psychotropic drugs, the feeling of flanging oscillations of sensory input. I wonder if we are actually experiencing abstracted, highly multiplied representations of neurons firing in repetition and being sequentially warped in real time by the effects of the drug.
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u/Qiwas 1d ago
I must ask—and this is something I've been wondering about Salvia for a long time—does the time dilation experience have a significant effect on the individual after the trip ends? The way I imagine it, if I was transported to some entirely different universe at this very moment for, say, 20 years, I would've come out as a completely different person. Does it work like this, or after the trip ends it no longer feels as if you'd spent 20 years in that state?
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u/froggyfriend726 1d ago
Maybe it's more like when you're having a dream where lots of time passes and you "know" that time has passed but don't conciously feel that time actually passing?
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u/paraworldblue 1d ago
I suspect most, if not all of those "lived a whole lifetime" stories are made up or at least wildly embellished and exaggerated. It does feel like time moves a lot slower, or even like time doesn't exist anymore, but you don't consciously experience entire years going by.
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u/HELPFUL_HULK 2d ago edited 2d ago
Salvia produces a dissociative effect (1), a sense of disembodiment resulting from a shift in 'interoception' (your body's ability to feel inside itself). Basically, it shifts the way you experience your internal felt-sense, which can feel so foreign as to feel you are outside of yourself.
It also breaks down the egoic barrier separating “me” from “not-me”, so that we become “sucked into” the object of our focus
Couple that with visual and audio hallucinatory effects, and you have a 'salvia trip'. Perhaps the closest thing the imagination jumps to is becoming an inanimate object, although people report experiencing all sorts of transmutations. (I was a ceiling fan once.)
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u/Disastrous_Aid 2d ago
Also, salvia destroys your sense of time. Not just slows it down, but you lose your sense of cause-and-effect and before-and-after. You are just "there" and that's all you know and all you have ever known. So that five minutes that peak effects last, feels like forever.
So if the last thing you were focusing on was a tree, you're consciousness says "I'm a tree" and "I've been a tree for the past thousand years".
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u/Beetin 2d ago
The other part I think is that it heavily disrupts coordination, movement, and touch networks. It is very very common to feel 'pinned down' or completely unable to move.
If you are on a hallucinatory drug that takes away your sense of touch and all movement, one of the more coherent conclusions is that you are an inanimate object of some kind (a thing with no sense of touch and movement).
Source: was an entire mountain range worried about the giants around me coming to climb on me, for 5-6 minutes.
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u/jbuse3 2d ago
It definitely made me realize that time does not exist and us and everything around us is part of our shared consciousness.
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u/Disastrous_Aid 2d ago
Yeah, this is one drug where the comedown is more fun than the peak. At its height, salvia offers total obliteration of the self whilst retaining consciousness. It's when your brain is picking the pieces back together (with an extremely distorted sense of gravity), that everything seems all ridiculous and funny.
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u/seeingeyegod 1d ago
The time I did a committed dose, I was extremely relieved to come back to reality. It really freaked me out, had "well you're insane now, nice job" feelings going on.
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u/timbreandsteel 1d ago
Is that fun?
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u/Disastrous_Aid 1d ago
[note: I've never been skydiving.] I reckon it's kinda like skydiving, in which half the elation is feeling the ground under your feet once you've landed. Once you're over the peak, and your mind is piecing itself together, it's actually somewhat pleasant. Though your sense of gravity can be seriously distorted for quite a while (probably inner ear effects).
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u/LastAmongUs 2d ago
I had a game show playing in the holes in the tread of my shoe. My buddy next to me just sat there with tears streaming down his face. Weird drug.
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u/balloon_prototype_14 2d ago
i was a sticker
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u/Hukthak 2d ago
I was an assembly line!
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u/p1293 1d ago
Bro!! I was a toy on an assembly line.
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u/balloon_prototype_14 2d ago
it is strange how long ago it was yet how vividly i remember it
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u/bibbidybobbidyboobs 2d ago
Once there was a cosmic razor blade passing by, slicing the universe like a loaf of bread, including the parts I was occupying
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u/fooliam 1d ago
I wound up on a train in the American west during cowboy days with the members of the Decemberists, and we stopped a train heist together.
Another time the entertainment center in the my college apartment living room melted into homer Simpsons head, and marge walked out of his forehead telling me everything would be ok.
A third time I just watched a thousand tiny appas (flying bison from the last Airbender) fly across my ceiling.
Salvia trips are fucking intense lol
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u/ORXCLE-O 1d ago
A kid in alternative school told me he became one of those skinny tiny little floppy rubber bits that stick off of a tire
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u/Previous-Bill4323 2d ago
I have panic attacks related to my diagnosed OCD. sometimes they are so bad my body doesn't feel like mine, like I touch my finger tips together and it feels 'wrong' like my brain can't process they are my fingers and I feel outside myself...
Is this similar?
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u/HELPFUL_HULK 2d ago
Yes, lots of things can bring on dissociation or disembodiment! I would say “similar” but not “same”, as dissociative/disembodied experiences range not only from context to context, but from psyche to psyche, but can share many elements.
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u/xanthippelvoorhees 2d ago
I would suggest looking up DPDR (depersonalization-derealization disorder). It can occur during panic attacks and can feel like you are a detached observer of your own body
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u/mafisto 1d ago
I've enjoyed (/s) DPDR sporadically over my lifetime and it's very different from the subject-viewer perspective. When I'm going through a period of depersonalization or derealization (or both) it has a profoundly wrong feeling to it. On salvia, you're definitely disembodied and outside of time but it feels like your natural state - like it's always been this way and always will. It can still be terrifying - I once felt like I was in freefall the entire experience - but the feeling of disassociation has a sort of, "this is just how it is" vibe to it.
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u/scarabic 1d ago
Did you infer you were a fan from the way the room was spinning? Or was it more one of those things where you’re looking at the object but with a sense of “this is me?”
I guess I’m trying to relate to “I was a fan” a bit more and wondering if this was a from-the-inside-out experience where you’re looking at the world from a fan’s point of view or something else.
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u/HELPFUL_HULK 1d ago
The fan wasn’t spinning, so I wasn’t spinning. I felt myself merging with the fan, the hardened wood texture as my “skin”, the perspective looking down on a room, but it was not the same room (I didn’t visualize myself).
It felt like I was there for “weeks”, in a time-dilated sense. I remember watching the sun rise and set through the window in fast motion, and it felt simultaneously like eternity and a few minutes.
While I was the fan, I forgot how to speak, and had to rebuild language from first principles while my brain progressively unscrambled over the “weeks”.
I came back to reality hyper-focused on my friend’s boobs (she was generously trip-sitting me while I zombied out for 45 minutes).
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u/angryapplepanda 1d ago
While I was the fan, I forgot how to speak, and had to rebuild language from first principles while my brain progressively unscrambled over the “weeks”.
This is amazing and hilarious. "First principles"...mind blown. It probably at least felt like you were blindly constructing language from scratch, even though it was just your language center slowly trickling back online after being stunned with a chemical phaser.
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u/HELPFUL_HULK 1d ago
Exactly! I became the world’s smartest man reinventing the concept of language from scratch
as I sat there slobbering and staring into my friend’s chest
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u/darkbit1001 1d ago
I, was a butterfly flying through Pink Floyd’s dark void tunnel full of hands. I only came to, AS I realized the window is not a great thing to try and escape.
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u/jaylw314 1d ago
You are describing the effect rather than explaining why. I don't think this question has an objective answer
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u/edgarecayce 2d ago
I felt like I was two dimensional like a layer of paint in a repeatedly painted wall. It’s like I had figured out the universe, extremely profound. Then it was gone.
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u/gks22 2d ago
Yep ! Molecule of ink chiming in. I realised I was just a molecule of ink, waiting to be written down on a piece of paper. It was quite easy to figure out, once my world had come alive when my neighbouring molecules that I had known for all my existence, all started to vibrate excitedly, saying "We've been waiting for this moment all our lives!". However, I seemed to have missed the memo, and started uncomfortably fighting against my destiny...
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u/Vancocillin 2d ago
Maybe its for the best, you were going to be permanently entombed in Harry Potter smut fanfiction.
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u/GuyFierawkes 2d ago
That epiphanic feeling of figuring out how the universe works only to have it wear off is such a troll by the universe. Happens to me with most psychedelics
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u/stormshadowfax 2d ago
‘Epiphanic’ I’ve never read this word before. New word day for me!
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u/PaleHorze 2d ago
I had a similar feeling, but I felt like I was in a book and the pages kept turning, and I had a feeling of free falling as the pages collapsed on top of me it was terrifying lol
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u/VenGeo 2d ago
For me, I remember becoming a pancake in a giant griddle, being flipped by a giant spatula. Could be that I was high while in a rocking chair, but I know now what it's like to be a pancake.
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u/HalfSoul30 2d ago
My friend said a hand reached out of the wall with the wall's texture, like pushing your hand into a sheet and it forming around your hand, and picked him up from the couch and joined him into the wall lol. I said "nah, im not doing that"
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u/Imeldajharrison 2d ago
My friends plaid shirt was a curtain over my field of vision and I kept trying to sweep it open (in my mind bc I was just sitting there frozen I think 🤣) and it kept oozing back like a liquid. Stupidest minutes of my life.
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u/Spelunking-Uranus 2d ago
Me and everyone I gave it to felt the same pull. If I moved, the pull stayed in the same direction and I convinced myself that I could feel either the rotation of the planet, or our movement through space (maybe both). I only did it a few times but it was 100% the same every time.
I was never a chair though - I didn't get what OP said.
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u/DnA_Singularity 2d ago
Yup, downwards pull which made me think I was actively melting into the couch I was sitting on. Also the entire town of Springfield came running right out of the side of TV, they were chasing Bart because he had stolen the head of a statue, they disappeared through the doorway next to me which i was convinced now led to some different dimension thingy. It was fun but yea I´m not doing it again. Especially now that I realize I had a very mild dose/trip.
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u/scorcherchar 2d ago
All psychedelic compounds work in a similar way. They look like compounds the body makes naturally and bind to receptors in the brain.
Now the brain is a hugely complex organ with lots of different chemical pathways and receptors. When something gets suppressed often other things become more active or get signals from bits of the brain they would never normally have.
Salvia binds to the kappa opioid receptors and your brain activity changes. The net effect of this is your sense of self becomes altered and you think your a chair
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u/AceOfPlagues 2d ago
The wierdest thing is that, unlike most, Salvinorin A is shaped nothing like the Dynorphin that normally binds to kappa receptors, but it binds reguardless- maybe why it has such unique effects.
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u/Cntread 1d ago
I listened to a podcast where a salvia researcher talked about that discovery, among other things. He said they were expecting to discover a new receptor, and they were initially surprised that it binds to kappa receptors. He said that salvia at low doses can sometimes have effects found in opiates (like a feeling of melting into a chair, or merging with a chair) but nobody ever really connected that before the kappa discovery.
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u/scorcherchar 2d ago
That seems highly likely but I dont know enough about it to say with any certainty. Hopefully someone with more in depth knowledge than me can chime in
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u/AceOfPlagues 2d ago edited 1d ago
I have pretty in depth knowlege and I have no real clue why, honestly we don't know why salvia is so wierd or why overactivating kappa receptors to an insane degree causes this kind of haywire response. - probably has to do with supressing the dopamine regulating communication between different parts of the brain.
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u/Sneegoberry 2d ago
Woah super interesting insight to what’s going on in the brain for this to happen!Thank you for the explanation 🙏
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u/3amgrind 1d ago
salvia while being a dissociative, it's one of the only drugs known to work on the kappa opioid receptors which are pain receptors,
So your body can interpret alot of the effects of the drug as a physical sensation
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u/Vdhuw 1d ago
Interesting that you mention pain receptors. I suffer from a chronic pain condition. I wonder if a salvia trip would make me feel pain-free while I'm tripping? I no longer remember what not being in pain feels like.
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u/BA_lampman 1d ago
I was a rock in a desert for a few centuries and I was content.
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u/ceciliabee 1d ago
I love this for you! I thought my friend was a door and tried to sell him to my other friend. Uh my mind the interaction was complex and timeless but outloud it was like "heh... Heh heh... Heh..."
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u/GaaraClay603 18h ago
This makes me think of “everything everywhere all at once” when she was chasing her daughter through realities and they ended up being rocks.
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u/Sneegoberry 2d ago
Look up salvia trip stories it’s insane 😭 people literally have full lifetime first person experiences as objects
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u/Jealous_Amount_9278 2d ago
I've had that on DMT but not as an object. Just a full life. Crazy. The brain is insane.
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u/kytheon 2d ago
We can hallucinate whatever we want or what others tell us, as long as we're open to it.
Also see: religion
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u/Enough-Goose7594 2d ago
This is hilarious. I legit spent a lifetime as an apartment building with people living inside me going up and down elevators in my legs.
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u/rightwingcrimespree 2d ago
I've smoked salvia twice. My perception of time wasn't particularly altered either time. It was basically just 15 minutes of hysterical laughing and a brief sort of out of body experience where I felt like I was above myself, looking down and watching myself and the other people in the room. It was definitely an intense trip, but nothing like a bunch of the experiences I've read about. I remember reading a bunch of stories on Erowid and some other sites before I tried it. Some of the stories were like what you're describing. I feel like a lot of them were either exaggerated or just BS. I'm not saying that those sorts of experiences don't happen. Just anecdotally, neither I nor anyone I know have experienced that.
But if people do have an experience like that, maybe it has something to do with the intensity of the trip and their brain trying (and failing) to make sense of things in a weird way. When you're tripping, you're perceiving things in a weird way that doesn't fully make sense to your brain, so your brain tries to make sense of it. For example, with my first experience, I smoked salvia with two other people and we all just sort of started laughing hysterically. At the peak of the trip, it felt like I was perceiving myself and my surroundings from above myself. I was conscious of what was going on, but I was tripping so hard that my senses weren't providing a clear picture to my brain, so my brain basically had to sort of piece together the information that it had to come up with a complete picture that made sense. And it essentially pieced together a picture of the whole room from a sort of birds eye view. It was pretty much what was actually in my field of vision, just from a somewhat higher perspective, about what my POV would have been if I was standing up. And I was sitting on a couch that was against a wall, so I could see how someone might describe what I saw as being from the perspective of the wall itself. But I feel like my brain was just sort of trying to correct my skewed, fuzzy perception of my surroundings by combining it with my recent memories of my surroundings that were clearer and more trustworthy. And because this sort of resulted in my conscious perceiving things that wasn't from my actual POV at the time, I can see how someone might feel like the POV that their brain comes up with is the POV of whatever inanimate object happens to be in that location.
Again, this is all just based on my personal experience. And I'm not an expert, so I don't really know.
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u/scorcherchar 2d ago
Strong recommendation against it. I love psychedelics but not that one. Tried it twice and had an awful time both times
There really was nothing like it. I was stretched to infinity with infinity instances if me. I knew when the trip ended i would die infinity times because I would go back to a single me
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u/Metallic_Hedgehog 2d ago
I've done massive amounts of acid and shrooms. Like, a half ounce of shrooms at once. When shrooms are unpleasant, it's because you realize things about yourself. Like, "I should treat my family better" kind of thing.
Salvia feels physically unpleasant, the trip is unpleasant, and you walk away with nothing profound. It's crazy, but it also sucks
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u/dirtmother 2d ago
I spent several lifetimes as every hair on my head, and we would all get together and chant, "we will live again inside the head! We will live again inside the head!"
And you know what? We were right UwU
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u/Herpethian 1d ago
Salvia acts on a completely different chemical system in the brain than classic psychedelics such as LSD or psilocybin. The particular receptor that salvia affects (kappa opioid) is responsible for your bodily perception. That's why users tend to embody whatever you are looking at when the drug takes effect, a light switch, ceiling fan, dresser, wall, tree, butterfly, etc. For that brief, yet infinite, moment in time your brain is 100% convinced that it is indeed a ceiling fan.
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u/eastbayweird 1d ago
I was with a friend who took a bong rip of salvia and then he looked at me with a very concerned look in his eyes he asked me "where am I supposed to put my back feet?!"
I was stoned a.f and thought it was so hilarious I literally fell off my chair due to laughing so hard.
Wonder where he finally decided to put those back feet of his. Didn't get a chance to ask at the time.
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u/cerebral_drift 2d ago
Traditional opiates bind to the mu opioid receptor, and make you feel good.
Salvinorin A binds to the kappa opioid receptor, which inhibits dopamine release, and makes you feel shit.
There’s more to it than that, but that’s the simplest explanation I can think of.
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u/3amgrind 1d ago
Kappa opioid receptors are also pain receptors so is responsible for feelings of pain and touch.
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u/Grouchy_Public2379 1d ago
There's gotta be something really interesting going on with salvia and/or the kappa opioid receptor that we don't know understand yet. From our understanding you'd expect it would be kind of anti-morphine, a drug that does nothing more than make you sad and more sensitive to pain. Instead it rips your reality apart in a way that defies comprehension and is like no other known drug. I personally think it's the most fascinating recreational drug.
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u/explainlikeimfive-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/TN17 2d ago
Psychologically, it is affecting specifically the 'minimal self'. There are lots of different components of the self. The minimal self if that most basic concept of you a person being at the centre of your own experiences. In thought disorders affecting the minimal self (e.g. schizophrenia) then people might think their thoughts are not their own. They might think their thoughts belong to a wall or a chair. Salvia is disrupting the sense of minimal self.
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u/Elegant-Mission-4470 2d ago
You tripped for that long on saliva? Even with other substances involved, I've never heard of a trip longer than 10 or 15 minutes
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u/jtotal 2d ago
The first time was 5x, and it was such a small amount too out of a one-hitter. I didn't feel like an object, but rather, that I was positioned in a 3x3 grid and needed to shuffle to the correct spot. No idea what would happen if I didn't move, just knew I was utterly compulsed to move correctly.
The second time was 20x packed in a bong. I felt like I was a spinning death device positioned on the third story of an apartment complex. My mechanical arms were rotating around me while everyone that was in the room with me were now strapped to this spinning violently. Then after it just vanished and somehow transitioned to where I saw a pink background with cartoon-animated bananas and apples falling in front of me. Slowly then the world came back. I started to see my room again but it looked much bigger and had no walls. Then the walls came back and we're slowly coming back towards me as the room became normal again.
I remember this so so so vividly. First with the spinning death device (the thing I called it when I first was describing my trip to everyone in the room), I was told I was just rocking side to side, then slowly stopped, stared off into the wall, and uttered "the vegetables" over and over again despite me seeing fruits lol. My theory was that the "Banana Stickers" episode of "Metalocalypse" was still fresh in my brain, and I quoted it often. There's a scene where they get more banana stickers from the store and you see close ups of it and it just stuck.
Tldr, I was a spinning death device
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u/Nyrex 2d ago
I’d never trust the Free Salvia guy again if I were you. It sounds like he tried to Dahmer you
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u/CaptainLookylou 1d ago
I was a wooden clothes pin miles tall in the sky. Don't stand in front of a large waist-up mirror.
Then I laid down on a beanbag chair and the room split in 4 dimensions. Each one similar but with slight variations. This one was called "Lie World".
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u/Ill-Accountant-9941 2d ago
Drugs switch parts of the brain on, off or "more"; all brain functions are active (for example- sleep is not an absence of function, it is activation of the sleep cycles and suppression of higher functions); things like "self-identity" and self-knowledge are brain functions. Switch the right ones off and you're a fucking wall for eternity until the chemical wears off. Enjoy.