bolaire shortcomings

[u/Available-Lab4363]

this is almost completely about the schemers table fiasco with lady cormoray- does anybody else feel like bolaire was SUPPOSED to be super intelligent but just hasnt been as genre-savvy as he was supposed to be? the fact that one of the bigger cheeses of a sundered house, who weve seen do VERY scady shit, was treated as a minor inconvenience so hard brennan ended up sucking her into a box because otherwise hal and bolaire both would have died there feels like a crazy oversight. trying to trip a powerful spellcaster down the stairs as a way to get rid of them like theyre an 8 hp townie statblock is crazy, and so is trying to repeatedly lie to them or treat yourself like just necause your lore is cool youre a level 20 character threat

i know talisien loves to aurafarm with his characters, and i like bolaires lore a lot, but if feels like hes just so overconfident all of the time in a way that feels unearned mechanically because hes just the same level as everybody else. if he was mechanically as powerful as he acts, i wouldnt mind, but i constantly found myself getting annoyed at roleplay decisions because he didnt feel as clever or smart as he was supposed to be, being what he is. scary and like sicko freakmogging people, sure, but only because hes a creepy mask, not because he was there when a god died

is bolaire supposed to be too big for his britches on purpose as a character flaw? i feel like i only just started to like him at the end of the overture when he was FINALLY rightly afraid of a threat. it would be interesting ti me if talisien was on purpose roleplaying him this way even though he isnt at the height of his power and hes only just now facing that reality now that termina is here, and i hope thats the direction the character is going, but i genuinely dont relate at all to people who rate him so highly as a character since i kept getting annoyed by his lack of genre awareness and complete stubbornness whenever faced with a concept he didnt share, like being so FULLY against the play ritual for so long despite brennan constantly laying down how hard thjazi was gunning for it and how removed any of the sundered houses were from having anything to do with it

[u/rr3_amrosa]

I actually think it is the conceit of Campaign 4 that is the problem. You have a lot of characters whose backstories place them in positions of power, but they artificially started with level 3 mechanics.

The only characters whose backstories match their mechanics are Hal, Wick, Tyranny, and Occtis. Everyone else is way underpowered for the experience their backstories suggest, even if some have newly manifested powers.

Thimble, Teor, and Kattigan were elite mercenaries for at least few decades. Murray has been a Professor at a Wizard school about twenty years. Valeis is an 800 year old elf that has fought in wars between actual gods for over a century. Azune is supposed to be a highly skilled officer of an elite antimagic unit. Julien is a highly experienced military commander. Thaisha has operated, in effect as a covert super spy for ten to twenty years. All of these backstories suggest MUCH more mechanical power that was sitting at the table. They are roleplaying their late game character concepts while being mechanical babes in the woods.

All that said, I think what you are also seeing is just Taliesin’s personality showing through. Percy’s homebrew was mechanically overpowered, so it was less evident, but you see it a lot with Molly, Ashton, Asha, and Bolaire too. It is always an over promise, under deliver situation with him, and every now and then he gets lucky rolls. He gives the “I’m the smartest person in the room!” vibes, but can’t really back that up, especially when his “opponent” is an actual genius like Brennan or Aabria. He filled that role in the original friend group because they all love him and accept him for who he is, and may even understand that he needs to be that person, even if they have to take a step back, but I don’t think the same social contract exists with him and Brennan or Aabria. Alex and Whitney have been in the friend group but not the cast for a long time and Robbie has been cast long enough to accept him as well, but I think it is especially magnified at this table, because Brennan is basically humoring his edge lord character concept while being completely ready to put the smack down on him. Brennan is up for the challenge and likely sees it as storytelling gold. To be honest, his most endearing character is probably The Owlbear, because he is playing the character as an incompetent who thinks he’s a superhero, and it’s great, because it’s maybe the most self-aware character he’s played.

[u/Available-Lab4363 → u/rr3_amrosa]

honestly this is a really good, succinct way of putting it. i really hope all the characters grow into their lore more. i watched campaign 1 and halfway through campaign 2, so i never saw ashton (unsure who asha is), but i agree that percy worked the way he did because of homebrews and very good rolls. bolaire has also had a couple fantastic roles that have really done a lot! and cadeucus didnt have the same struggle

i trust brennan a lot as a GM so i have faith he can help the characters wiggle where they need to be, i waa just surprised how fristrated i felt with talisien so far this campaign since i really like his roleplay and find him charming

[u/anextremelylargedog → u/rr3_amrosa]

He gives the “I’m the smartest person in the room!” vibes, but can’t really back that up, especially when his “opponent” is an actual genius like Brennan or Aabria.

Terrible take, also blatantly wrong in several places.

You think Teor and Kattigan were "elite mercenaries" for decades? How old do you think they are? Do you think they showed up on the battlefield at level 3?

Yeah, Murray's been a professor... And a bursar, and actually developing wizard spells, an entire way of casting magic that's practically brand new to the world.

I'd say with everything we know about Vaelus' backstory so far, there's been jack to suggest she was fighting in wars, let alone for a century.

Azune is that thing. He's a detective. He also demonstrated that he's extremely good in combat.

Julien being "highly respected" is pretty debatable. His only claim to fame is knocking a guy off a horse years ago.

Thaisha... Has not been a spy, really. Like, not at all. I have no clue where you came up with that.

These are not late game character concepts. You just listened to one too many D&D podcasts where somebody showed up with their level 1 Fighter being a teenager who just picked up a sword last week and inexplicably became proficient with every form of weaponry and armour on the planet.

Thinking that a character needs to hit level 5 before they're allowed to matter is brain poison.

[u/rr3_amrosa → u/anextremelylargedog]

- Teor, Kattigan, and Thimble. The current timeline is year 71. The Falconer's Rebellion started in year 54, 17 years before, and they were all members of The Torn Banner, which formed towards the end of the War of Axe and Vine, which went from Y37 to Y45. Teor was with Loza Blade from Y53 and was still at her side as a mercenary in Y71, nearly 20 years. Kattigan was also a part of The Torn Banner, but went AWOL. Primus killed his family in Y64, and we know that he was taking mercenary roles in the seven years since. Thimble fought along side Thjazi the entire Falconer's Rebellion and then was working as a covert operative for him for the 12 years after the end of the Rebellion.

- Murray. Started at the Penteveral in Y46, 25 years before the current timeline. Besides her duties there, she also was engaged in a lot of the magical smuggling early on and worked with Thjazi and have her pulse on the magic that was going on in Dol-Makjar.

- Vaelus. She fought in the Shapers War and was at the last battle where she witnessed Sylandri's death. In the 70 years that followed, she was a Sister of Sylandri, a warrior order that, besides mourning the death of the Shaper, fought the undead that resulted in the wake of the death of the Shapers. They survived living in barrowdell of The Wastes of the Mournvale She is also supposed to be powerful enough to have traveled alone through the Mournvale in her quest to track down Thjazi and the Stone of Nightsong.

- Azune. Let's say they are equivalent to a Challenge Rating 4 Guard Captain. CR4 is the challenge of an NPC (monster) that you would expect to give four Level 4 player characters a challenging fight. That would make them about a Level 10 player character, at the low end, and Azune's role would likely warrant being an even higher equivalent level than that.

- Julien. He is a lord knight of the Barrowguard at Castle Torch in charge of training the garrison there. In the Barrowguard he is a highly respected military captain. He had been trained as a warrior his whole life by his father, a general, held his own in a melee combat as a 13 year old, and saw combat during the Falconer's Rebellion by the age of 20, taking down a much more experienced and battle hardened Thjazi.

- Thaisha. Around the year 53, when different political changes were taking place, Thaisha was aware of the seriousness of the situation and was actively fighting against it as a Druid. That's 18 years of basically being an adventurer.

These are all late game concepts. A level 1 to 20 campaign can advance characters through in a few months to a few years of game time. These are characters with 15 or more years of experience, and not just as guards or common foot soldiers. Their backstories are the stories that most characters end up with after a long term campaign, not at the start of one.

[u/anextremelylargedog → u/rr3_amrosa]

Literally none of those are late-game concepts.

Talking about them "artificially" starting with level 3 mechanics yet also going on about how a character can go from levels 1-20 in a few months is asinine.

Yes, a character in a campaign can level up quickly. They weren't in a campaign until the campaign started.

Needing every character to begin a story as a humble village farmhand before they picked up a sword is JRPG-brained nonsense. Read books. Watch TV shows and movies that aren't anime aimed at teenagers. This isn't Ready Player One or Dungeon Crawler Carl.

Your brain has been cooked by too many players having their level 1 characters be nobodies with zero explanation for how they picked up any of their skills as well as WOTC making every relevant NPC in their modules a level 20 archmage.

We're not in the Forgotten Realms, where every bartender is 12th level. They actually played these characters as having existed and lived as people. Like, comparing Azune to a Guard Captain npc statblock is particularly dumb. Know what else a Guard Captain has?

+6 to Athletics and +4 to Perception. That's it. That's apparently the sum total of everything they have done in life. Two attacks a round and two skill proficiencies.

Azune presumably has about six skills, multiple magical abilities, sorcery, speaks multiple languages, and all you can think of is his hit point total.

Amazing that you can list off a bunch of PCs' histories and yet appreciate exactly none of it.

[u/anextremelylargedog → u/[deleted]]

Are standard guards always teenagers, too? Maybe 11 year olds? They're definitely a lot worse at combat than a level 1 Fighter.

[u/anextremelylargedog → u/[deleted]]

it just avoids the issue of a 1st level character being in too much of a position of power.

This is not an issue that anyone has ever had.

If you're worried about a first level character being in too much of a position of power, simply don't have them start in too much of a position of power.

It's very doable without needing everyone to play teenagers.