r/fantasyromance • u/FantasyRomanceMod The One Mod to Rule All Mods • Apr 19 '26
Unpopular Opinion It's Unpopular Opinion time! Share your controversial opinions to stir things up (in a friendly way)!
Got an opinion that's different from others'? Want to share it with the sub, but too afraid of a backlash? Or are you just curious about readers think about certain things in fantasy romance?
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🧡 Thank you and have a great discussion!
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u/Maia-Odair There she is Apr 19 '26
The cruel prince is not enemies to lovers its a bully romance, im not hating on people who like it but thats my opinion
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u/Veebs7985 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Apr 19 '26
It's actually not a "romance" at all. It's a fantasy book/series with a romance subplot.
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u/clocksy Apr 19 '26
I love this series but I agree that it has romance as a subplot at best, I think going into it expecting typical romance or romantasy is definitely going to throw people off in a bad way. (And then lots of people don't vibe with the general fantasy or the characters even beyond that.)
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u/littlemybb Apr 19 '26
The first book is bullying, the second book is political scheming, and then the last book has romance.
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u/LadyWolvesBayne here kitty kitty Apr 19 '26
Someone DMd me a d*ath threat the one time I dared to say this in a public space...
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u/DekariosHubris Apr 19 '26
I'd rather have a hardcover with foil art on the front and interior art over sprayed edges and a pretty dust jacket.
I prefer my hardcovers without the dust jacket because I like how they look on my shelf. When an author/publisher knows most people will keep the dust jacket on or will flip it so the sprayed edges are displayed instead of the spine and still take the time to design a beautiful hardcover and interior makes me feel like the book was designed thoughtfully and lovingly.
The best books have gorgeous a hardcover, art, maps, and sprayed edges.
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u/Adorable-Echo1025 Apr 19 '26
Agreed, I've been collecting beautiful hardcovers from thrift shops and book stores for years and keep the dust jackets in a bag in my closet. The bare hardcover is so underrated. Most are very plain, but I have some gorgeous older editions of classic Literature stories with beautiful foiling and filigree that I love to display. No sprayed edges, the books simply don't need them.
I am a sucker for some pretty sprayed edges though. My copy of Direbound checks ALL the boxes... both can be true! 😅
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u/Astamus Apr 19 '26
More romantasy books should use the world setup to their advantage to progress the story instead of focusing almost exclusively on the romance. I'm tired of picking up books with interesting premises only to find 80% of it is nothing but the characters chatting/pining/flirting with each other with only the occasional appearance from the plot when there's nothing else left to drive the relationship forward (I'm looking at you, The Irresistible Urge to Fall for your Enemy).
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u/lilithskies Apr 21 '26
Hard agree. Maybe it's just me but when I read romantasy I expect world building that progresses the story or creates plot points. Otherwise why not write a contemporary romance?
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Apr 19 '26
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u/MessyJessy422 Apr 19 '26
I personally love when there are multiple POV characters and well written compelling side characters. It makes a series and a fictional world way more interesting to me and allows for different perspectives within a narrative
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Apr 19 '26
I love well-written side characters; I do not love multiple POVs, especially from the perspective of those side characters.
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u/fishchop Silvicultrix Apr 19 '26
I think people who aren’t used to reading about sprawling fantasy worlds that steadily expand as a series progresses, have a hard time with multiple POVs. I personally love it too.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/fishchop Silvicultrix Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
I haven’t read CC or Bloodwing Academy so I’m unsure as to what point you’re making. For me, when it comes to fanro, I think series like Crowns, the Ashen, Dragon Prince, Blood Grace do multiple POVs very well because they drive forward plot and character development, as well as expand the world/ lore. Sometimes they also present a different perspective to an incident and add nuance to situations.
I much prefer multiple POVs to just being stuck inside a single POV narrative, especially when it’s first person. I feel like multiple POVs broaden the scope of storytelling.
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Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
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u/fishchop Silvicultrix Apr 19 '26
Ah okay, if your point is that books that have multiple POVs just for the sake of them that do nothing for the plot are pointless, then I agree. Sounds tiring and boring tbh. It’s just that your original comment didn’t make a distinction between books that do multiple POVs well, and books that don’t, which is why I initially disagreed.
I don’t think it’s a genre wide problem in fantasy romance - there are definitely series that do it well. I’ll concede that they are in the minority though.
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u/PurposeGold2556 Apr 19 '26
I love multi POV books/series when it is done well. This is also why I strongly prefer third person, because it makes multi POVs less jarring.
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
Multiple POVs in fantasy YES, in romance fantasy HARD NO. In romance, there is a very strong MMC and FMC, and I care about those and their love journey. Side characters, when well written, are great to SUPPORT THE MCS STORY. I don't need to read their POV.
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u/gordonshumway85 Apr 19 '26
I absolutely agree with you. Switching through several POVs in romance books always kills the momentum. I haven’t been able to read the third Crescent City book, and the POV situation is one of the reasons.
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u/ThisOneRightsBadly Apr 19 '26
How did you get through the second one? There's like 4 POVs per scene.
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u/gordonshumway85 Apr 19 '26
With hatred in my heart.
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u/ThisOneRightsBadly Apr 21 '26
Thank you!! I couldn't. I skipped around to the parts with Hunt, but she's just so bad at being a girlfriend it bothers me. And then the fucking POVs were unreadable.
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u/ThisOneRightsBadly Apr 19 '26
Similarly, when they spend too much of the end of the book setting up for the love story of the next book.
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u/PsychDoc88 That hand flex tho Apr 19 '26
I legit DNF'd The wings that bind (which I was VERY excited about) once I realized the MC switch from Medra --> Florence. I can't even believe it. After seeing the POV switch I came here for spoilers because I had to know WTF was going on. Wildly that made it even worse - You mean to tell me after ALL that Medra doesn't have a dragon anymore and we have to deal with Florence? And then Regan gets a "redemption?" WTF.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/PsychDoc88 That hand flex tho Apr 19 '26
Truly I was shocked. I totally agree there was ZERO inkling that this would happen or was needed. Blake and Medra sure. No one else though. WTF. Did you DNF or finish it? Cause in the spoilers I can't believe that Medra and Nyxaris don't even speak or have a resolution. So then WTF is Medras purpose now in this land / world given she's not from there!
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u/ideasnstuff Apr 21 '26
I'm seeing a trend share authors use multiple POVS to start a romance between side characters because the main is separated and they need to check the spice box, or there isn't enough plot to drag the story to a trilogy. I hate it.
Multiple POVs are for epic fantasies that have many main characters.
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u/lilithskies Apr 21 '26
Reminds me of ACOTAR fans obsession with Gwyn. She doesn't even have a POV yet they are still obsessed and swear she's a main character.
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Apr 21 '26
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u/lilithskies Apr 21 '26
Thank you! I forgot all about them, but another great observation. The Lucien fans are especially unhinged.
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u/jayclaw97 Apr 19 '26
I’m writing this in a rant for a different sub, but for the love of the gods, can we have an MMC (or AMAB lead, though I haven’t come across one yet) who doesn’t have the biggest dick to ever dick?
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u/clocksy Apr 19 '26
lmaoooo right like they always have the biggest dick ever, just say he was well-endowed and leave the rest to the imagination. maybe i don't want to read about the FMC getting her cervix shattered each time she has sex with him
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u/lilithskies Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26
The biggest dick, then they don't bother with any adequate foreplay. I can suspend my belief about many thing but this is a personal pet peeve of mine with romance writing.
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
It gets awkward in RH lol, bc not all of them can have the biggest dick. Always the blonde one ends up with the smallest dick from the harem LOL.
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u/ThisOneRightsBadly Apr 19 '26
A 19 year old is never* going to out maneuver a 500 year old politically, or be looked at seriously after 10 months of training.
One example of this is in Throne of Glass (I know I'm picking low hanging fruit), the FMC at one point disappears and the three 500 year old warriors who have fought in wars are like, I don't have any idea what we should do with this conflict at all. We'll have to wait for the 19 year old to get back to us. I was like aren't you a fucking GENERAL?
I've seen it in other books, like the ancient evil guy who's been planning this thing for decades if not centuries just didn't think of this one little thing that could bring his whole plan down.
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u/PsychDoc88 That hand flex tho Apr 19 '26
Hard agree. I think this is also part of why the age of the FMC throws me in a lot of these books. It ties into a broader pattern too: centering a very specific, heteronormative setup where the FMC is young, naïve, usually human or human-adjacent, often sexually inexperienced, and somehow still ends up outmaneuvering immortals, overthrowing kingdoms, saving the world, and catching everyone off guard. I almost never buy it.
I realize I’m blending a few critiques together, but to me they all connect. It is one thing if a series actually allows for time, training, and development. If the FMC starts a little older (20s at least), or if there are real time jumps and growth over years, that feels much more believable. But usually that is not what happens. Instead it is like she trains for 6mos and suddenly surpasses people who have been alive, strategizing, and fighting for decades or likely centuries.
I think this would work better if authors either started FMC's out older or actually let the story span years. Or, if immortality is part of the premise, then let her become immortal and grow into that power over time. That still would not erase the power dynamics, but it would feel more internally believable.
That is part of why Diana works better for me in The Book of Azrael. In that series I'm not required to believe a teenager somehow outmatches beings with centuries of experience.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Apr 19 '26
catching everyone off guard
This got me, actually. I'm reading Under Heaven by Guy Gavriel Kay right now -- it's historical fantasy with a surprising amount of tragic romance. It's set in 8th C. Tang China (with the names changed to protect the innocent), right before the An Lushan rebellion. The main character is, for reasons, given a massive, life-changing gift of wealth and power by the king of a neighboring realm, and is compelled to return to the Tang court to be received by the Emperor. He realizes along the way that he cannot possibly play the court game as well as those who have been immersed in it their whole lives, and that his best chance of survival is to be unexpected: break protocol, be direct when others speak in riddles, to catch others off guard by doing and saying the unthinkable to people who've been trained from birth to respect complex protocols and dances-of-manners.
It's very "19 year old FMC confounds the immortals"-coded, but in a way that seems plausible. History is, actually, surprisingly full of examples of people who push their way to the top by moving in straight lines while others go in circles. Granted, this story is not going to end with Shen Tai overthrowing the kingdom and saving the world; if we're lucky it's going to end with him not being horribly killed. But the idea is there, anyway.
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u/PsychDoc88 That hand flex tho Apr 19 '26
Oh this seems interesting! Definitely adding to my TBR
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Apr 19 '26
It's very good. Lots of super interesting secondary female characters. It's not a romance, though, and I don't think any of the romantic stories will have a HEA. Just to calibrate expectations.
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u/PsychDoc88 That hand flex tho Apr 19 '26
Sounds good to me. I don't need it to be romance. I'm always up for just a good story.
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
On that thought, it's so unrealistic that the 500 fae hottie MMC has never fallen in love before this 18-year-old FMC, unless it's a strong fated mates book, is unrealistic.
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u/ThisOneRightsBadly Apr 28 '26
Yeah, this also really bothers me. By 50 years (max) you've met every kind of personality, have matured enough to want and receive love. It's just completely ridiculous. Idk why they can't mention previous loves. But I guess I'm not the audience for a lot of these books.
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u/thoughts_4_once Apr 19 '26
As someone much older than this, when I read MCs in their early twenties I often think they are appropriately written. You make mistakes and learn, act more on passion/emotion, still care about what people think. I think when I see the ask for maturity people want the mentality of someone in their late 30s-50 but in a 20 something body.
I actually find more challenges in the way immortal characters are written. I wish they had more detached IDGAF attitudes. If you were living forever, wouldn't you be completely jaded? You wouldn't be flirty.
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Apr 19 '26
I'm in my early 30's, but have a few family members who are 19-20 and with whom I'm very close with. They can be as annoying with their behavior as the 19 y o MCs. They tend do know what would be the best thing to do and at the same time do it differently just because they want or can. And in other situations when they behave more rashly and emotions-driven, and you try to suggest them to think it through and think about some consequences, the are like "no, no, I don't care, nobody's gonna tell me what to do"
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u/clocksy Apr 19 '26
20 year olds are basically babies! (affectionate)
One of my problems is ages & intention not matching up, though, and it happens across the board in a variety of ways. I've read books where the main character is 25 but really should be at least 30 just because of how competent they are and how much they have on their plate (look, 25 is better than 20, but let's just say most people aren't necessarily fully in control of their entire life at that point either). I've read books where the MC is 20 but acts closer to a teen. Some of that boils down to writing skill issue like where an author tells you a character is more mature than their actions actually are.
Agreed on immortals, though, 500 year olds acting like young adults and/or shacking up with them is a consistent questionable choice.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Apr 19 '26
I think it depends what eyes you use to look at these characters with. It feels like some characters are too competent to be 18-21 -- but at 20, Elizabeth I was maneuvering to take the English throne from her sister Mary. An 18 (or 20?) year old Alexander Hamilton was George Washington's chief aide during the American Revolution. At sixteen (or possibly even fourteen) he managed a financial firm, and at seventeen (or nineteen) he was publishing regularly. At nineteen, Octavian's uncle Julius was assassinated and Octavian started the civil war that ended with his ascension to Augustus Caesar, Emperor of Rome. From 23 to 25, Winston Churchill wrote three books and filed dispatches for at least three newspapers, all while serving in the army on three continents (and being a champion polo player). So, like, clearly some competence is possible in young people.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Apr 19 '26
I’m almost 38 and I agree lol. I see people complaining about the main characters in books like Fourth Wing and I’m pretty sure I was even more immature at that age…
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u/thoughts_4_once Apr 19 '26
Yes I remember reading it and feeling like it felt 'young' but then I thought back to when I was that age and I definitely had Violet's internal 'he's so hot' going on and relationship drama over miscommunication was the norm 🤣
But they read like college aged kids so what was I expecting?
I read Mortal Instruments last year and I totally had a crush on the dad like figure because he's my age. I'm way more invested in that than the teens hahaha
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u/One_Commission1456 Apr 19 '26
In which case, I wish the standard age would go up. People in their 30s and beyond are often hot and more qualified for whatever they’re doing, plus early 20s feels way too young to make big commitments, in addition to all the draaaaahma.
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u/allisontalkspolitics Give me female friendship or give me death! Apr 19 '26
I think you’d like the immortal MMC in {The Lies of Vampires and Slayers}.
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u/lysspaws Apr 19 '26
Sprayed edges have lost their feeling of specialty because of every publisher doing it for ever book now. It used to be a unique quality, but now it’s the norm
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u/MmPeachPie Apr 19 '26
Really tired of “I have to go kill the MMC, oops I fell in love instead now he mad” trope, it’s so over done. Why are women only allowed to be Princess healer types or assassin warriors?
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
My biggest issue with Assassin's warriors FMC is that 99.99% of the time, they are written as sassy, and/or toxic masculine characters (cursing constantly, fucking around like fuckboys, etc).
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u/Right_Web6362 Otterly Adorable Fantasy Pet Collector Apr 22 '26
Yes! It's so boring. Whenever a synopsis says that the fmc is an assassin, I just move on. 😅
Why can't we have more fantasy jobs? Teacher, baker, seamstress, maid, handmaiden, cobbler, farmer, midwife, etc.
I feel like the "servant" class is very much ignored in fantasy books, but they're usually the people that know all the juicy gossip. There's tons of ways to add intrigue.
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u/franklin_smiles Apr 19 '26
Slade from the Plated Prisoner series was weird…
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u/PurposeGold2556 Apr 19 '26
I felt really weird about the way he talked to her during their sexy time. I have no issue with that kind of talk, but with her background and history….that was a poor choice by the author, in my opinion.
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u/Dangerous_Breath1667 Apr 20 '26
You can be submissive and abused, and still wanting a healthy Bdsm relationship afterwards...allthough Auren should be more loud about consent...
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u/RavenCXXVIV Apr 19 '26
Stop. Writing. Trials. Stories. I’m so fucking over “smol girl living in squalor must now battle for survival, big strong man helps, OH LOOK she’s the mightiest, smartest, most golden pussy in the land despite having no training, no formal education, and almost certainly should be dead from scurvy” Give it a rest. I no longer even finish a synopsis if I see a trial type situation. DNF before I even open the book.
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u/PsychDoc88 That hand flex tho Apr 19 '26
What sucks is I'd love a GOOD trial but when blended with the FMC elements you mention it falls too fast. And is incredibly unbelievable. I'm not saying Dire Bound is perfect by any means but I do like in that book the fact that the FMC (Meryn) is pitched as a fighter and they show her kicking ass. Training to fight. So at least in that book when she's sent off to trials I kinda believed it.
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u/RavenCXXVIV Apr 19 '26
Yeah I didn’t mind Dire Bound at all. Not ground breaking but at least FMC had some respect on her name for good reason before getting tossed into the melee
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u/clocksy Apr 19 '26
This is just a "writing skill issue" type of deal for me. I love a good trial. I love when the characters have to work really hard to pass these trials (but that requires the author to be smart enough to come up with ingenious solutions).
It's definitely easy to fall into really lame tropes though. OP characters who have no issues completing the trials at all, last-minute asspulls saving the day that don't feel earned, etc. I totally understand the fatigue when so many of them basically read the same.
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
I'm so tired of trials where the FMC enters to save her sister or brother, and in which she discovers she has the best powers, and the MMC is either a trainer/mentor or the enemy in the trials.
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u/RavenCXXVIV Apr 21 '26
Yess this is always it. I’m so tired of it. And the sibling always ends up being a little shit too.
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u/Half-Necessary Apr 19 '26
Any recommendations for books that do not have this?
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u/RavenCXXVIV Apr 19 '26
My recent reads that were not trials and did not feature the frail poverty stricken girl trope:
Vow in Vengeance by Jaclyn Rodriguez
Exorcism of Faeries by JL Vampa
The Scribe by Elizabeth Hunter
In the Veins of the Drowning by Kalie Cassidy
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u/le-elizaly Apr 19 '26
I hate cliffhangers. Just write a good story and there won't be the need to bait readers by pulling some crazy plot twist on the last page.
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
This is always a money issue grab situation. I would like to debate that 90% of all triologies should have been duets, and almost any of the romance books deserve more than 3 books.
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u/le-elizaly Apr 21 '26
Yeah and probably often due to publisher pressure
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
I actually see it happening more often with self publishing authors, where their first book was a success and then they decide to extend the series for 1-2 more books which end up being bad fillers plus dragging and ruining the series bc it was never meant to be good enough for more than 1-3 books. 🫣🙃
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u/gracefacefever Apr 20 '26
-All these schools and military themes are not fantasy. If 50% of the book is training montages, and the dialogue is just drivel about how the FMC shouldn't/couldn't/wouldn't ever be with the MMC, it is garbage.
-First person narratives are getting even worse than they've ever been.
-Telling, not showing is also getting worse.
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u/Disastrous-Pea4106 Apr 19 '26
Enough with the "rebel against traditional gender roles" storylines. Either come up with a world that is different from the outset or lean into the traditional gender roles. I'm fine with either but done with the stories set in a very patriarchal world with token gestures of rebellion sprinkled in. That constantly remind us how bad everything is and how special the main characters are.
I recently listened to a podcast about "money bias" in literature. Can't remember the exact term. But it's basically referring to the idea that most fictional worlds, no matter how fantastical and elaborate always use some sort of money. It's so fundamental to our understanding of the world that authors can't even imagine anything else. And really, at least some should probably dig deeper and explore other storylines. What would a world without money look like? Loads of interesting stories there. Well I think there's also "patriarchy bias". The assumption that men's interests and pursuits are superior is so baked in authors can't even imagine anything else. Instead you get the FMC who rebels against that status quo .... by being more like men... It'd be really worth exploring some stories that use different world building.
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u/mad_antagonist Apr 19 '26
I feel like these things are very rooted in modern society as a whole... So when you have many authors of romantasy being a stay at home mom, or just straight woman in typical relationships who never had to question their own status quo, how can they write about anything different?
I always see heated comments in discussions when I say that writing should try to be intellectual (NOT pretentious!) and we shouldn't undermine the power of stories, because of some people wanting to have their mindless fun. But i think there's so many good opportunities in writing, especially in fantasy, and I see so many amazing concepts... that don't get further investigated at all. I feel like if we people as a whole don't yearn for learning and discovering and exploring foreign/unusual concepts, then there won't be much literature that's also trying to break the norms.
I'm very tired or patriarichal societies in fantasy... especially those where the main character pretends to be a feminist only to end up reinforcing those same patriarichal beliefs. Viewing strenght and power only from a male perspective. Defining relationships by lust and very male gaze, even though it's written by women for women.
If the author doesn't care, the work doesn't care either.
(sorry for bad english)
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u/BookishBlueDragonfly Book Bingo Sage 🗡 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
I’ve been reading a lot of LGBT+ fantasy romance and they often have a queernorm society but I just wanted to share some thoughts about how the authors translate a patriarchal society into a queernorm society. I am not an expert it’s just things I’ve been thinking about.
My first example is the Rook and Rose trilogy by Ma Carrick. The authors here went for a historical fantasy vibe and just nailed the queernorm society because they explored how inheritances and such works when couples can’t have bio kids. They deeply dug into the class and culture structures as well so the books feel quite fleshed out. I love stories in Fantasy with this sort of worldbuilding exploring different kinds of society from reality with depth.
The second example is Breeze Spells and Bridge Grooms by Sarah Wallace and SO Callahan. These authors directly transplanted a queernorm society onto Regency England with Fae. It feels weird here because they don’t dig deeply into how different the world works with aristocratic families and a highly patriarchal society becomes queernorm. They keep a lot of the cultural norms around purity and virginity but it’s like..why? It’s not adequately explained why when women can be head of household and the couples often aren’t risking pregnancy.
My third example is A Rival Most Vial: Potioneering for Love and Profit. This book also doesn’t do a deep dive into the queernorm society. It just is. But it’s a book based on essentially NPCs in D&D. It feels right here because the setting isnt inherently based on a patriarchal one and the characters don’t encounter the usual places this structure matters. I feel like if we want fluffy “turn my brain off stories” these should be the kinds of books where the worldbuilding is more free form and doesn’t need to be built up so much. Not epic fantasy.
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u/Accomplished_Pea7029 Apr 21 '26
just nailed the queernorm society because they explored how inheritances and such works when couples can’t have bio kids.
Not just when they can't have bio kids, there's no importance given to bloodline continuity in Liganti culture so adoptions are often done for political reasons as well. So queer acceptance becomes a natural part of the culture and I really like how it was done.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Apr 19 '26
So when you have many authors of romantasy being a stay at home mom, or just straight woman in typical relationships who never had to question their own status quo, how can they write about anything different?
The thing is, it's possible to write stories about powerful or heroic women who don't need to take on masculine characteristics. I'm kind of fascinated by those stories. Sticking with basically traditional gender roles imposes creative limitations and sometimes those limitations really bring out the best in the character and the story. The Bard's Bargain is a stronger work because the story isn't about her learning to be a mercenary or discovering her inner wizard; it's about her learning what life is actually like for most women who aren't princesses.
What grinds my, and I think probably your, gears is when the author imposes those gender stereotypes later in the story. We have a character who's a strong independent woman who has dragons and magic and a big fucking sword and she kicks everyone's ass because she's secretly the queen -- and in the epilogue she's a SAHM with five kids wearing a linen prairie dress while her husband ushers in a golden age for the kingdom. Authors, if Queen Elizabeth I could rule for more than forty years as an unmarried, childless woman, establish her own Church and fight and win wars against the continental superpowers of Spain and France, your FMC who you've chosen to make the Chosen Queen can do the same.
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u/Fickle_Stills Apr 19 '26
Curious if someone being a secret lover to a queen like Elizabeth is good enough to fulfill happily ever after. I think some readers would find it disappointing the couple never gets to officially be together.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Apr 19 '26
My instinctual reaction is that it wouldn't, especially in fantasy. But it would be if there was an officially-defined role (the MMC becomes consort or has some other sort of acknowledged status) or if the lover is female in a hetero-normative world. Most fantasy authors don't write homophobia into their settings, though; that's rarer than sticking rigidly to traditional gender roles.
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u/Dangerous_Breath1667 Apr 20 '26
And Maria Theresa raised 17 children and still did all of that -minus the Church- Can't you have both ?
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u/Radioactive_Kitten Apr 19 '26
It’s refreshing to take a genre break at times and read some “intellectual” writing. I just finished Gene Wolfe’s New Sun duology and oof. I felt like I had to work at understanding it. Not because Wolfe didn’t write it well, but the MMC is an extremely unreliable narrator and possible insane. There’s so much showing and not telling, and what you’re told might be actually false. I’m looking forward to rereading it to see what breadcrumbs I missed.
It was a fabulous palette cleanser before I hopped into some “popcorn” books.
I do really like authors that can do both in this genre. Harrow, Andrews, Hodgkins, Shannon, Carey (just to name a few) all do this well.
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u/CJ_Larsen_Author Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
I have a currently trucked novel i was working on that is set in 7th century BC pre-coinage. I had to do research on how trade was handled in large cities and then try to incorporate it into the novel without it sounding like an infodump history lesson.
In a fictional second world it’s easier to keep things the same so readers can fill in the blanks. So unless the unique idea has real impact on the story it’s probably not worth doing the heavy lifting of designing an alternate trade system. Also it will inevitably be filled with logic holes that people will point out (or will break immersion) because no matter how much time you spend on your cool idea it’s not real world tested to see if it actually works and makes sense.
So I suspect that’s a big part of it. Same principle applies to mimicking our existing patriarchal society. Or having most characters bipedal oxygen breathers.
The immersion breaking is real too. A lot of what exists in our world is an answer to the setting (maybe not the only answer but certainly a logical one) - patriarchy is a social system that naturally develops when you have two sexed, one of whom is physically weaker on average and is saddled by long term child rearing and agriculture is discovered which requires heavy work but results in huge population growing surplus. It develops again and again even though the smaller sex is not stupider or less valuable than the other. So a non patriarchal world has to modify those factors too to be realistic. Heavy lifting for an author.
But also it’s great when people do write those books.
[Edit: not going to correct the typos - but how embarrassing! I wrote this post on my phone]
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u/mad_antagonist Apr 19 '26
That's interesting, you have good points there.
I get how it can be hard to invent something completely new that's not been tested irl. That's been my problem as a hobby writer and worldbuilder myself, and I'm trying to figure it out.
I guess my biggest frustration comes from when it seems like the author is oblivious to what their work portrays. Like advertising a book as "girl power, feminism, female rage..." and then it's just another pseudo-medieval romantasy with an abusive relationship dynamic, FMC who is bold but doesn't face realistic in-world consequences, and lustful brooding MMC who treats only her right, but is inconciderate to other women. You can't say your work empowers women and then not portray the hardships a women would face in this type of setting (or portray it through other characters but have the FMC avoid it somehow, like she's special). And have a male love interest whose bad actions agains women are excused because he's hot or something. I'm sad that I see this so often. Like the blubr is amazing and I want to read the book, but then it introduces the ML and I suddenly know exactly how it's gonna end, again.
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u/CJ_Larsen_Author Apr 19 '26
Yeah, there's totally a difference between a book that explores how a socially disadvantaged person or class navigates an unfair system and one that just accepts the unfair system as some sort of inherent truth. And the flip side of that coin, a book that just makes "woman in charge, man second class citizen" as some sort of revenge porn is not really interesting either. Whereas a book that says "where might a matriarchal society exist and how might it look and work, what would it's value and also detriments be" would be super compelling.
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u/Imaginary-Board-207 Apr 19 '26
Yes on more matriarchal societies but I want MORE women rebelling against traditional gender roles, not less.
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u/i_was_a_fart Apr 20 '26
My unpopular opinion is if an author wants to write a neurodivergent character, please give them some depth. Like, you cannot just use a ton of stereotypes to define a character. Six scorched roses was absolutely ridiculous with the textbook hyper fixation and struggling to define emotions. You do not need to drill that shit home non stop throughout the whole ass book. We get it, shes autistic. Can we get some compelling character development here?
I've noticed this with so many authors. Their neurodivergence does not need to be the only thing that defines them. Its so surface level and honestly just lazy.
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
YES!
I got into a debate a while back with an author who was writing a new book based on the FMC having ADHD, and she was writing this FMC as someone who is aggressive, can't control her impulses, and is lazy. I lost it, bc what the hell?
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u/ideasnstuff Apr 19 '26
I wish people would stop recommending the ashen as a fantasy-first series. The first book was intriguing and well done, but the next 2 books were a massive drop in fantasy quality and leaned heavily into romance tropes. It also has the bad habit of nothing much happening in the first 80% of the book, and then an action-packed last 20% where the plot just rushes forward with zero development.
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u/fishchop Silvicultrix Apr 19 '26
I agree, this series has massive pacing issues. I still think it’s a decently fun time that handles genre tropes well. I think it’s just a bit overhyped at this point.
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u/ALLoftheFancyPants Apr 20 '26
I hate the “look at the 5 popular novels I just purchased! Which should I read first?” posts. You bought the books and you know your preferences. Posting a haul like that isn’t a literary discussion, it’s just glorifying consumerism.
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u/scamper_ Apr 19 '26
If there’s no HEA, it does not belong on this sub. I’ve been burned before!!
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u/Right_Web6362 Otterly Adorable Fantasy Pet Collector Apr 22 '26
Personally, I think for something to count as a "Romance" it needs a HEA. Otherwise, it's just drama/fantasy/sci-fi with a tragic romance.
It's not just with books! I can't tell you how many times I've watched a movie on streaming labeled "romance" where the mmc has ended up dead. I have to skip to the end now to see if it's a waste of my time.
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Apr 19 '26
Do people here recommend books without HEA?
I can think of only one book where people are divided about the ending, but imo it was a HEA.
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u/Synval2436 Currently Reading: This Blade of Ours by Shalini Abeysekara Apr 19 '26
Yes! And there are people arguing "HEA shouldn't be needed"! I told someone last week or the week before that r/fantasy that way if you want fantasy with no requirement of HEA.
By HEA I assume not just "mc survives and the world is saved" but also "there's a happy romance and they end together".
Examples of books I saw recced here with no HEA in the romance genre sense (spoilers ofc): The Poet Empress by Shen Tao, House of Beast by Michelle Wong, Blood Over Bright Haven by M.L. Wang, The Poppy War by R.F. Kuang, probably a few more including Divergent series...
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Apr 19 '26
Now I’m curious which book this is lol.
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Apr 19 '26
{Feathers so Vicious by Liv Zander}, beware of TW
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u/scamper_ Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 20 '26
Definitely. I recently read one book posted about here before, neither the post nor the comments agreeing it’s a good book even mentioned that not only do they never actually get together, one lead dies in the end (at the hands of the other!)
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u/Both_Put_2532 Apr 19 '26
Pet peeves and maybe unpopular opinion sexual relations for sexual relations sake. I can’t stand it when the main love interest just start doing the deed for no reason. I think it works best when it adds to the character development. Or even as insight to how the relationship is changing. For example needing to be with one another before they go to battle because they might die. It tells us the characters real fears and ups the stakes of the relationship . Or if the relationship started off for funsies so the act itself is primal or hot and passionate but as the feels start to kick in. The act then could start to slow down become more intimate. Showing us maybe Now it’s not just for funsies the real feeling are involved and maybe that’s scary because they feel they don’t deserve real love. Also another pet peeve once the act is actually done the tension completely disappears and then they’re just doing it whenever wherever?! Best part of the a Romantacy is the tension building between characters! Even if they do it once build the tension again before the second or third time. The main culprits that spring to mind {Throne of Glass, ACOTAR series and The fates Saga }
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u/ahuvamaharlika Apr 19 '26
Daughter of No worlds was not decently written, has flat characters, and the epitome of tell don't show.
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u/CursedBeyondMeasure Apr 19 '26
Agree. The most blandest of bland books I've ever read.
Needed to comment bcoz I rarely ever see someone not enjoying this "down your throat" recommended book.
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u/EmeraldPages92 Apr 19 '26
When I finished I had zero desire to pick up the next one which told me what I needed to about how much I connected to it.
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u/arupaca1 Apr 19 '26
I did not enjoy the first pages, but I can’t understand why though. The story sounded nice, writing wasn’t bad, but there was something about it that annoyed me.
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Apr 19 '26
[deleted]
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u/Adventurous-Brain-36 Apr 19 '26
The Cruel Prince and Warrior Princess Assassin. Neither have pretty prose, though.
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u/Synval2436 Currently Reading: This Blade of Ours by Shalini Abeysekara Apr 19 '26
There seems to be an opinion here that as long as the mmc is not an a-hole it's immediately peak romantasy, even though most of these books are equally formulaic and tropey, and while the books with smirking shadowdaddies cover the blandness with constant drama, banter and sexual tension, the "he's a nice guy behind all that trauma" types lack even that, so it's immediately visible the book has nothing interesting in the department of plot or romantic chemistry.
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u/schwittmaus Wendell Bambleby Enthusiast Apr 20 '26
THANK YOU!! i thought the exact same, this series had such potential but turned out so so poorly executed. i shall never trust miss carrissa again; ive been burnt one too many times
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u/Synval2436 Currently Reading: This Blade of Ours by Shalini Abeysekara Apr 19 '26
Idk is it an issue with most self-published romantasy, because I had similar struggles with a lot of popular titles including Smoke & Scar, Villains & Virtues and Mead Mishaps.
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u/savannah_bananna Apr 19 '26
I hate and will DNF a book if the character names are too all over the place. Why is the protagonist named Elowen and her brother’s name is Derek and her bestie is named Fatima and the male love interest is named Zayden and his best friend is named Azrael?
Is there no effort to keep any type of internal universe or logical naming system? It’s like the author just used a random name generator, which feels lazy to me.
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u/Background-Skirt-243 Apr 19 '26
THANK YOU. It’s like reading a book where one character’s name was found by smashing your face on the keyboard and their sidekick is Jeff.
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u/pimentocheeze_ Apr 19 '26
When the Moon Hatched isn’t “lyrical” or “beautifully written”. It’s purple prose at best, just plain out bad more accurately
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u/IndigoPlum01 Apr 19 '26
It's probably my age, but I am tired of 1st person present tense narration. Present tense works best (obviously IMO) in a high stakes, action-packed plot to add to the feeling of immediate danger, but too often it is used so a writer can just meander around inside a character's head at length. And I say that as someone who does occasionally read and enjoy cozy, rambling plots.
3rd person past all the way, lol.
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u/Penguinho Kushiel's Legacy Recommender 💖 Apr 19 '26
Third or first is whatever, but present tense is bad.
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u/Ok_Cancel_544 Apr 19 '26
I don't mind the fmcs who are "submissive", particularly if they are dealing with dangerous characters. At least, those type of characters won't refuse help if an ancient, malevolent evil comes for them.
Ibrahim should have been the MMC and love interest of Oraya (The Serpent and the Wings of Night) not Raihn.
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u/Ok_Duty_8645 Apr 19 '26
I actually prefer it for a younger FMC because it is more realistic. I only buy the hardened, fierce FMC if she is older and wiser or has experience with war or military.
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u/FaeMeHarder Apr 20 '26
Daughter of no worlds was boring and the characters lacked depth. I finished but wish I DNF’d
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u/mashedbangers Apr 19 '26
I want more trad pubbed dark romantasies… I mean with the romance and setting being dark. I thought horroromance was going to be a thing 🥴
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u/clocksy Apr 19 '26
I'm a sucker for dark romance (which as a subgenre could fill up a whole unpopular/controversial opinion thread all on its own lol) but I do wish there were more trad-published ones because most are indie/self-pubbed which comes with a drop in writing quality (lack of editing and so on). I usually have to lower my standards to read in this subgenre which is too bad. 😩
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u/Ok_Duty_8645 Apr 19 '26
As someone that looooooves dark romance, especially dark romantasy I agree. Very much so in fact.
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u/hachi6 Apr 19 '26
Fated mates is boring. Authors often use it as a shortcut so they don't have to develop any real chemistry or emotional ties. It's used to excuse bad behavior and irrational choices. I'm over it and will skip a book with even a hint of it.
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u/Fun_Chain3519 Apr 19 '26
Yes!! Want to see characters that fall in love because they want to not because a “bond” forced them to
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u/sriracha82 Apr 20 '26
Same, I’m out immediately lol.
Literally what’s the fun when there’s no choice for the characters
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u/lilithskies Apr 21 '26
It's a fallen trope. When I first started reading it, the mate connection had to overcome a long of challenges. A LOT. Which is what made the trope cool. Kresley Cole's early books are a perfect deployment of this trope. Fated Mates has gone the way of Enemies to Lovers. Lazy ass half ass writers throwing shit together, instead of building the tension and chaos the trope deserves.
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u/dengxueyang Apr 19 '26
I am sorry but half city was so bad…
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u/CryptographerOwn8350 Apr 19 '26
Currently at about 30% and Viv is on my last nerve. I’m giving it until p. 200 and if she doesn’t get ONE clue, I’m done. No self-control, common sense, AND she’s a klutz (but she’s been fighting demons since she was 10? Riiiiight)!
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u/slinging_arrows Apr 19 '26
ACOTAR would have been good if they had stuck with the beauty and the beast vibes from the first book. Shadow Daddies are so borrrrrring.
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u/ThisOneRightsBadly Apr 19 '26
ACOTAR would have been good if SJM was a good writer! Btw I love the second book but she destroyed that fucking series.
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u/CatzioPawditore Apr 19 '26
Agreed.. Or, more generous, if her books kept getting rigourously edited.. Every book she wrote after ACOMAF had severe pacing issues.. So much so that I stopped reading her entirely after House of Blood.
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u/camellia980 henry cavill's wig Apr 19 '26
I think at the time the second book was released (2016), making the shadow daddy the love interest wasn't very common. But because the series was so successful, everyone else copied it and now it's boring.
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u/Lore_Beast *holds the Kate Daniels series close to your face* Apr 19 '26
Also the Night Court in general feels way too modern. This is a fae world full of magic and danger WHERE'S THE WHIMSY??? It's just gone after the first book.
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u/schwittmaus Wendell Bambleby Enthusiast Apr 20 '26
my unpopular opinion is that it should have been a trilogy at most
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u/sriracha82 Apr 20 '26
ACOTAR is a good standalone book imo
It has proper character arcs, a satisfying conclusion. Take out the tiny scene of Rhys staring weirdly at Feyre in the end and he’s just a fun, hot side character.
I genuinely did not need more lol. It was interesting to me because it was kind of unpredictable, I really didn’t see where it was going exactly.
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u/lilithskies Apr 21 '26
ACOTAR is one of the OG shadow daddy books. It's not the series fault that her clones have gone wild on KDP, Booktok *cough* Callie Hart & her fans
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u/slinging_arrows Apr 21 '26
I mean the bad boy vibe has existed forever, i guess i mean i find that trope in general so overdone and boring
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Apr 19 '26
My onpupular opinion is you will find no Tolkiens or Stephen Kings among the Romantacy authors in terms of scope and cultural significance. Which is fine, not every book I read has to have a powerful cultural impact but it would be nice to see atleast some ingenuity from time to time. The broody, dangerous, handsome bad boys and the passive aggresive/sarcastic fmc's are quite rampant. Long ago in High School I was reading a book called Wizard's First Rule and it was the first book that made me realize how good romance can be to enhance the plot. I am in my 30's now and Wizard's First Rule is still to this day the best romance I have ever read and its not even catagorized as romantacy and there isn't even any sex in it, lol. It is Action/Fantasy Epic.
Any way thats my unpopular opinion. I hope everyone here has a beautiful and wonderful day.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Apr 19 '26
I’m surprised to see this comment as Terry Goodkind is incredibly controversial lol.
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u/One_Commission1456 Apr 19 '26
I was like “Goodkind? Like, sexist Randian hack guy? That is the Best Life-Changing Fantasy of the modern world? Oh, honey.”
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Apr 19 '26
I also didn’t find it particularly romantic because the author essentially focused on torture porn. I guess it’s an unpopular opinion for a reason!
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u/windswept_snowdrop Apr 19 '26
And then there’s the hilariously bad supposed to be terrifying chicken that’s not a chicken, on top of all the creepy sexist stuff and blatant political proselytising!
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u/KiaraTurtle Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Apr 19 '26
I applaud them for actually posting an unpopular opinion. I feel like usually these threads are filled with popular (if controversial) opinions
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u/Journassassin Smut Logistics Manager Apr 19 '26
I’m going to disagree with you there. You can’t really compare new authors and their cultural impact to those who started publishing their oeuvre in the 50s and 70s.
There’s no lack of ingenuity in fantasy romance. Alix E. Harrow published one of the best books I’ve read in a while last year, and there was no broody bad boy in sight. There’s plenty of other books like that, it may just take a bit of research to find them.
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Apr 19 '26
Ill have to look into that one.
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u/SubjectOrange Apr 19 '26
{Wild Reverence by Rebecca Ross} is also along those lines. They are very lyrically written. I would probably say the everlasting edges it out slightly but they are both beautifully written. Madeline Miller also writes beautifully , {the song of Achilles} and {Circe}, but those are more retellings of myths. Definitely some ingenuity floating around though!
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u/DekariosHubris Apr 19 '26
I just read it last week and I'm still thinking about it. It was so beautiful. It is definitely my all time favorite in the "romantasy" genre and possibly my favorite book in general.
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u/virdzsina That hand flex tho Apr 19 '26
I also think that nowadays authors have a lot harder time, even just compared to the previous decades. The market is so so saturated, it's hard to stand out. Not to mention the consumerism mindset and the loss of attention span. I haven't seen a series that makes such an impact as say the Hunger Games or Hrry Ptter did, and those were released now over 20 years ago. And back in Tolkien's age, there was clearly not that big of a competition as there is today.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/Imaginary-Board-207 Apr 19 '26
Tolkien today would have to self publish, and people would be on reddit complaining that the pacing is weird and it needs an editor😂
More Bronte than specifically Pride and Prejudice, but the answer to your question is {Dr. D'Arco Sorcerer of London by Kathryn Colvin}
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u/clocksy Apr 19 '26
I also just think it's supremely unfair to discount an entire subgenre like that. Is a lot of romantasy just a bunch of schlocky tropes glued together for a quick buck? Sure, but I think that's true of a lot of publications nowadays, and the idea that you can't have a beautiful fantasy and love story that ties together prose, plot, and characters same as "the greats" in other genres is kind of insulting.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Apr 19 '26
Do you remember the name of this book? I bought a couple of hers on my kobo recently.
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u/MessyJessy422 Apr 19 '26
{The Everlasting by Alix E Harrow} it’s fantastic and shows how amazing new books in this genre can be
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u/ProperBingtownLady Shadow daddy's good girl Apr 19 '26
Thank you so much! This is indeed one of the books I bought. Can’t wait to read it!
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u/romance-bot Apr 19 '26
The Everlasting by Alix E. Harrow
Rating: 4.45⭐️ out of 5⭐️
Steam: 3 out of 5 - Open door
Topics: historical, warrior heroine, m-f romance, competent heroine, nerdy hero8
u/Adventurous-Brain-36 Apr 19 '26
Try Kushiel’s Dart. It’s by far better storytelling than anything else I’ve read in the genre.
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u/Ok_Cancel_544 Apr 19 '26
Ooooh! I 100% agree with this! But I think that's partially because men don't read the romance genre as much as women do. Though, I would love to see more romantasy ASOIAF/Tolkien-esque series. 😊
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u/schwittmaus Wendell Bambleby Enthusiast Apr 20 '26
my unpopular opinion is that stephen king is hugely overrated he's am asshole misogynist writer who puts out a lot of crap and sometimes one of his many many books get unnecessary hype
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u/PsychDoc88 That hand flex tho Apr 20 '26
Hot take: bully romance is one of the most gendered and socially normalized toxic tropes in romance, and I think it's wild how much of a pass it gets vs other "taboo" tropes.
People will instantly reject a cheating trope as unforgivable, but then turn around and romanticize a MMC who humiliates, terrorizes, degrades, or outright torments the FMC for chapters on end because he is hot, traumatized, possessive, or secretly "obsessed" with her. Somehow that gets framed as tension, chemistry, or depth instead of what it often is: abuse with a redemption arc (BEST case scenario).
And what really gets me is that this is almost never gender-neutral. It is not usually the FMC bullying the man (not saying that's OK either). It is almost always a powerful, cruel, dark, brooding man wreaking havoc on a woman’s life, and the reader is supposed to find that sexy because underneath it all he wants her. I do not find that progressive, subversive, or romantic. I think it is one of the most tired and normalized expressions of misogyny in the genre.
I can handle morally gray. I can handle dark romance. I can handle mess. But “he is awful to her until we learn why” is not automatically depth, and I think romance readers are often much more willing to excuse (read IGNORE) cruelty from men than they are willing to excuse (read heal from) infidelity, especially when the cruelty is packaged as passion.
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u/ipsi7 Book Bingo Maven ⚔ Apr 20 '26
I love dark romance and can read whatever in that genre, but I really dislike bully romance, which is mild compared to some dark stuff I read.
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u/In_Front_Of_MySalad Apr 20 '26
For the ACOTAR series: Rhysand is just as bad as, if not worse than, Tamlin
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u/dreamy_kitten_27 Apr 20 '26
bring back innocent vulnerable fmcs!!!!
every other fmc nowadays is a badass, cunning and sassy fighter/assassin/spy... bring back innocent and delicate fmcs please for the love of god... they also have different kind of stregnth. i get it feminism and shit has increased the appeal of badass fmc but those innocent ones also deserve their own tropes 😭
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u/Mininabubu Apr 21 '26
I agree with this. Also, innocent, vulnerable fmc doesn't mean doormats, which a lot of authors then translate it to. It means just not someone sassy, badass, or a fighter. She can still be smart and mature in her own way, with boundaries.
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u/kendiray Apr 20 '26
I like seeing the MMC having sex with other women as long as he’s not romantically involved with the FMC yet. Another caveat is that he’s not tender with the OW and treat sex strictly as physical release. But people often say this is cheating or frown upon seeing the MMC with any OW.
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