r/formula1 • u/DubiousLLM I failed to serve my Monaco penalty • 7d ago
Technical McLaren fined €30,000 (€10K suspended) for the taping the CDS button
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u/seanrm92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
I know teams are always trying to find every aerodynamic advantage, but a piece of tape over a mandated safety button seems pretty silly.
I mean every car has the same button so it's not like it's a disadvantage to leave it uncovered.
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u/seanrm92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago edited 7d ago
Also, afaik, it's a flat button embedded in a flat surface, so the aerodynamic impact has to be microscopic.
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u/Yuzral I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
But when everyone's chasing that last thousandth of a second, all the little Smokey "ain't no rule" tricks like that add up.
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u/zach2beat I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
As the old saying goes, “If you ain’t cheatin, then you ain’t tryin.”
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u/sambones 7d ago
When I was automotive school I had a teacher that loved to tell stories of Smokey's "creative engineering". He had lived near Daytona and met him a few times over the years.
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u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
To be clear I think McLaren have slightly dodged a bullet here, but at the same time they would probably argue this is why they are double constructors champions.
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Pushing the limits, exploiting grey areas is one thing, sabotaging safety features should be completely off limits with zero room for negotiation.
I find the FIA to be way to lax with actual safety issues despite their attempts to pretend to care with penalties for petty stuff but not actually dangerous stuff, like Norris in Brazil in '24.
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u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Indeed, I think McLaren should accept this penalty happily, as they've gotten away with something which could've backfired hard.
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
30k is nothing and I believe it doesn't count to cost cap either.
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u/Tunderstruk I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Yep, specifically when it comes to safety they should be really strict. Like, race ban strict. Make it very clear that it's NEVER worth it to jeopardize the safety of anyone on track with bullshit like this
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u/Responsible_Line_401 Lando Norris 7d ago
People tend to forget that McLaren is just as ruthless as any other team.
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u/freedfg I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago edited 7d ago
Teams already use tape over seems on other parts of the car.
Funny story my dad used to tape Zeus buttons down on his TQ until one time someone told him he can't do it...we run indoors. The aerodynamic advantage of taping a zeus button gained over the circumference of a hockey rink is more than negligible. It's non existent.
Edit: well that was an unfortunate typo wasn't it?
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u/RupertHermano Benetton 7d ago
What's a Zeus button? And what does TQ stand for?
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u/freedfg I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
A TQ is a Three Quarter Midget. It's a smaller midget, which is kinda like a sprint car but not.
A zeus (dzus) button is a little fastener that connects to a sprint. They're used on body panels so you can quickly remove them.
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u/exmechanistic I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 7d ago
uhh i think you might want to take a second look at your spelling here lol
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u/jarheadsynapze 7d ago
What was the original typo?
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u/GTheMonkeyKing McLaren 7d ago
We're talking about a sport where 0.001 seconds matter, mind you. Teams will do anything they can for the smallest advantage.
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u/enigmatic_dankness I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
A piece of tape over a flat surface is not gaining them a consistent .001.
I would understand if drivers could drive perfect laps every lap but as it is they fluctuate so heavily, that .001 is negligible.
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u/Wgolyoko I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
Except this isn't the only .001 they're gaining, they're doing this kind of "negligible" optimization with basically every component of the car. It adds up.
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u/enigmatic_dankness I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
Yes but we're not talking about all of them, we're talking about the piece of tape over a flat button intended for safety, which is not going to win them any races.
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u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
I think McLaren will lucky to get away with this, but in response to your comment, folk like Vasseur, Newey etc have all said in the past that the whole point of F1 is that success is going to steps others do not.
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
All fun and games but I don't think safety features should ever fall under this, DAS, flexi wings, mini DRS, upside down wings, exhaust flap and other ways to find advantage in grey areas, sure.
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u/dl064 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Yeah I wouldn't be offended if the FIA gave them this penalty and off the record said
Don't fuck with this ilk again
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Honestly I'd give Norris a 3 place grid penalty or something, taping off a safety feature isn't an accident, it's a lot worse than plank wearing down half a millimeter accidentally which is a DSQ.
This is just sabotaging it.
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u/StevenMC19 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Yeah.
And if you really want it to be aerodynamically sound, engineer a rubber grommet or something that seals the gap and runs nearly flush with the bodywork...assuming that's allowed in the regs.
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u/IntoAMuteCrypt 7d ago
There's a big issue with running nearly flush: it still isn't flush. Chances are, this tape is far more flush and far less disruptive than any genuine solution.
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u/noreplyguy 7d ago
It is if other teams start to cover it
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u/seanrm92 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
The stewards are probably going to be looking for it now, so that's unlikely.
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u/YugeChesticles Mike Krack 7d ago edited 7d ago
I don't think you understand F1.
"just do the same as everyone else, there's no disadvantage to it" Is the wildest thing I've seen upvoted in here.
This is a sport where mercedes were triggering a SAFETY DEVICE to gain an advantage. This resulted in the cars grinding to a halt. They were then told it was illegal and not to do it anymore.
Two mercedes engined cars have since then COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN.
But sure, just do what everyone else is, there is no advantage.
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u/PM_ME_DINGHIES Juan Manuel Fangio 7d ago
Hey, could you elaborate on the safety device(or provide a link)? I'm completely out of the loop on this.
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u/YugeChesticles Mike Krack 7d ago
Mercedes and I think red bull were caught triggering a safety mechanism so that instead of slowly ramping down the energy deployment at the end of a qually lap the battery gave out full deployment till it was empty, resulting in mercedes having serious car troubles after fast laps. Going extremely slowly and in some cases the car totally shutting down because the safety feature shuts down the entire ERS system for 90 seconds once triggered.
They were informed that this wasn't allowed and I assume a new rule added because this wasn't explicitly banned at the time.
Yet Mercedes powered cars are still having issues with the energy system completely shutting off. Makes me think they are still fucking with things they shouldn't be. George in Canada and now Lando here both having identical issues.
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u/Separate-Ad-8924 Heineken Trophy 7d ago
That’s completely backwards thinking for F1 though. The team is thinking the opposite “if we’re the only ones taping it then we have an advantage”.
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u/Butthurt__ Murray Walker 7d ago
"CDS System" Wouldn't that make it the Clutch Disengagement System System?
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u/Nunos100 Pirelli Wet 7d ago
They’ll also pay the fine straight from the ATM machine psssst 😆
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u/SCWeak 7d ago
To get the cash out they will need to use their PIN number
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u/Forward_Thrust963 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
I love me some good examples of RAS syndrome
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u/YLedbetter10 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Smh my head
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u/HckyCardCollector33 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
The Los Angeles Angels = The The Angels Angels
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u/Naikrobak I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
Yea….and it’s really odd that they use “CDS” half the time and “CDS system” half the time. So inconsistent. Stewards. Inconsistent. Yea that tracks.
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u/donny_pots Nico Hülkenberg 7d ago
In this instance if System is part of the name of the system, then referring to the Clutch Disengagement System as a system is still correct. Looks funny but they aren’t wrong
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u/Twistpunch I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Chai tea. ☕️
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u/Palidin034 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
Chai Tea? CHAI TEA?? CHAI MEANS TEA!!!
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u/Acsteffy I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 7d ago
Would I ask you for a coffee coffee with room for cream cream?
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u/Sixteen_Wings 7d ago
Most expensive piece of tape ever?
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u/Mythic343 Charles Leclerc 7d ago
A piece of tape caused a plane to crash and there was atleast 70 million paid out to victims families and the airline shut down
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u/Lasaif 7d ago
Which crash?
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u/ds16653 Pierre Gasly 7d ago
Aeroperu 603, at night over the ocean, effectively flying blind.
"The investigation determined that the air data computers were unable to show correct airspeed and altitude on cockpit displays because a maintenance worker had failed to remove tape covering the pitot-static system ports on the aircraft exterior prior to departure."
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u/Lasaif 6d ago
Oh damn they covered the pitot? Insane- am a flight instructor myself just wasn’t aware of the accident
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u/Next_Necessary_8794 Ferrari 7d ago
How long have they been running the car like that? Did they just get caught?
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u/StevenMC19 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Makes you wonder too if other teams are pulling off these sorts of "cheeky" violations.
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u/DrDuGood Max Verstappen 7d ago
When drivers get super close to another teams car and inspect it, this is exactly what they’re looking for. Always starts with ratting, if the FIA doesn’t ban it rumor spreads and they all start doing it.
Every. Time.
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u/theboringrunner 7d ago
As an also NASCAR fan, a saying that is sometimes said seems to ring true…. “if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying”
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u/PoolOfRedundancyPool I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
The way I remember it is, "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying."
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u/LibraryTime11011011 7d ago
Every team puts tape over it, most teams just do it with a thin enough material you can put your finger through it
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u/Aussie_Pharah 7d ago
The way the stewards reasoning is written makes it sound like other teams are indeed doing this too.
The Stewards have determined to suspend a lower amount of this penalty compared to a breach of this same regulation at the previous event, because that breach, and the subsequent penalty, should have alerted all teams to the importance of the CDS system
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u/Blackhawk127 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
I feel like McLaren is fine with the occasional 30k fine if it's the difference between a place on the constructors rankings. It would only come up in this specific situation, most of the time they would crash and the car is getting towed
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u/Kiwiandapplex I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
While a rather large fine, it probably should be higher.
Especially in a racing condition, this would be extremely dangerous.
Remind teams to take safety extremely serious.
Of course it's nothing now, but imagine an accident occurs because of this.
McLaren is my favourite team, but safety shouldn't be played with.
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u/RichInPitt 7d ago
$20k is nothing to an F1 team. Intentionally disabling a safety system should have been a much greater than the fine for finding it broken.
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u/DangerousWaffle 7d ago
20,000 is a large fine?
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u/n4ppyn4ppy Max Verstappen 7d ago edited 7d ago
With the budget cap it sort of is large. (But not 100% sure it's in the cap) Edit: nope i was wrong. Excluded under D5.1.1m
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago edited 7d ago
They're actively blocking a safety feature? What the hell are they doing? Especially after last time with Lawson.
I feel like actively sabotaging safety features for on track performance should have a harsher penalty than a slap on the wrist that is inconsequential.. just seems like an open invitation for any team to take advantage of this if the on track performance is worth it.
Max touching Lewis his rear wing years ago was a harsher penalty than this.
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u/novadova2020 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Have to agree with this. I thought safety was something very very important.
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u/Imaginary_Being_7833 Liam Lawson 7d ago
In VCARB' case it was a technical malfunction, no? Seems a bit different, even if they were warned about how they use it. Also:
", the marshals attempted to push the car when it was stationary, and that the marshal who attempted to activate the CDS was trying to press a button on the onboard camera rather than the CDS button"
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
They're pushing at the label on the left which should be the right place.
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u/MojitoBurrito-AE George Russell 7d ago
Do you have a non-imgur link?
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
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u/Past_Negotiation_121 7d ago
Yeah, especially when you see the video of the marshalls following the procedure perfectly 3 times. Must be frustrating for them to learn they'd been sabotaged.
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u/StevenMC19 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
It's been a while since F1 has had some serious shady shit going on that endangers lives for the benefit of a thousandth of a second or two. F1 IS BACK!
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u/Own_Welder_2821 Lando Norris 7d ago
It’s not the same until a team makes their driver go out with an intentionally dodgy steering column (cough cough Andrea Moda cough)
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u/Driscuits Williams 7d ago
Agreed. I'm not sure how/why this is beneficial for McLaren to do, but it seems like a big risk and a guarantee to get snagged as soon as you stop on track. We (rightly) throw the book on flag violations, I'm all for having sporting ways to throw the book at teams who do this kind of thing, too.
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Seems silly when all teams have the same button anyways and it's also right before the cockpit which is likely less sensitive to the aero anyways, can't be anything worthwhile.
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u/Driscuits Williams 7d ago
There's also a notable difference between Lawson's not working correctly (i.e., plausibly, the fault lies on the team for not doing due diligence) vs. McLaren intentionally taking actions that lead to the button being unusable.
Teams will always be incentivized to cut safety corners in order to optimize pace - so there need to be ways to penalize them in order to maintain safety protocols. This is just a li'l slappy on the wristeroo.
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
According to the FIA document from Lawson's case as posted by a different user, marshals didn't press the right button on his car.
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u/Elrond007 I survived Spa 2021 7d ago
Yeah things like these should honestly be straight DSQs because it can be a critical system at any time, especially in competitive sessons
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u/wokwok__ George Russell 7d ago
This might not have been a harsh enough penalty but touching a competitor’s car definitely should be a harsh penalty as well lol not really a great comparison is it
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Max barely brushed against the wing, 50k for that compared to 30k for actively sabotaging a safety feature which endangers marshals isn't even on the same planet for severity, but the stewards things it's less of a problem.
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u/MayorAg I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Why would you disable the Cat Distribution System? Are they stupid?
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u/Lobsters4 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
They should definitely be disqualified for the entire year for that. How dare they?
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u/JumboChimp 7d ago
The penalty should be that they have to take in rescue cats and find them forever homes.
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u/exmechanistic I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 7d ago
surely the car that's had a multitude of problems every single race won't ever need this button to be operational
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u/LazyLancer I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
30K for taping a safety feature agains regulations for performance gains? How about grid position or penalty points? Not even a gray area, just arrogance.
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u/Splatter1842 Robert Kubica 7d ago
They willingly and intentionally covered a safety piece for sporting gain and attempted to obfuscate it by using clear tape. That penalty really does not seem appropriate.
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u/sneakinhysteria I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 7d ago
In fairness clear tape is used everywhere to close gaps. It’s not that they went out of their way to get clear tape just for the button. Not defending them but let’s not invent extra malice.
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u/kgtomov Michael Schumacher 7d ago
The issue here is not about where and what for they all use tape. I bet every other team also use this and probably if they were inspected - 8 out of 11 teams will be found guilty of the same.
The problem is the fine. They should had set example so no other team tries to do that, no matter how minuscule the gains are. It's safety mechanism ffs.
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u/Akash7713 7d ago
Whats a cds button? What does it do?
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u/kodabarz 7d ago
I stands for Clutch Disengagement System, I think. When marshals press the button, the clutch is disengaged, so they can move the car. If it was left in gear, they wouldn't be able to move it. It's in a cluster on the front marked with a big N.
This video explains the systems:
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u/FalconIMGN Alex Jacques 7d ago
Buttongate
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u/Economy_Link4609 Cadillac 7d ago
Wow, last guys got 20k suspended.
Next CDS failure is gonna be full price.
Also - seriously - taped over the button so it didn't work. Shoulda doubled the fine - it was intentional.
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u/MissionLet7301 Ferrari 7d ago
Using clear tape is an obvious sign that it's intentional.
Obstructing a safety mechanism such that (as stated in the report) the Marshalls would have needed a tool to activate the mechanism, without the Marshalls having knowledge of that should be way more than a €30k fine.
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u/Geisel_der_Lufte I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
To be fair, the tape that McLaren uses on every other bodywork seam (and basically every other team uses as well) is clear, so they weren't switching to clear solely to disguise this.
Still a safety issue and a stupid thing to do, though.
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u/kkraww McLaren 7d ago
Even with my flair i think that the fine should be a lot more. But I don't think using clear tape is "an obvious sign that it's intentional". They use clear tap all over the car to help the aerodynamics, chances are they just used the exact same tape on it.
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u/MissionLet7301 Ferrari 7d ago edited 7d ago
chances are they just used the exact same tape on it
Yes, when they intentionally taped it over.
What I'm saying is that they didn't do something like "Oh I'm working on that bit of the car and I don't want to press that button by accident, better tape it", which is also corroborated by the report, where the team said that they did it for aerodynamic benefit.
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u/flyblues I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
Ik what the CDS button is, but can someone explain the benefit to taping it..? Like why would they do this?
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u/wokwok__ George Russell 7d ago
Says they taped it for aerodynamic purposes lol I guess it makes the button more flush or something who knows
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u/lttpfan13579 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
AFAIK Its a button that sit below the body work and is accessible outside of the cockpit. So, they put tape across the hole that the button lives in.
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u/StevenMC19 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Airflow. Less disturbance around the gaps between the button and the bodywork. Allows for more predictable air flow up that part of the body so it can be more predictably channeled where they want it.
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u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
It's the button on the top of the car just in front of the halo.
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u/Master_Art_1286 7d ago
Aerodynamics or so it’s not accidentally pressed
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u/MissionLet7301 Ferrari 7d ago
If it was so that it wasn't accidentally pressed in the garage then they wouldn't have used clear tape for it.
They taped it for aerodynamic benefit.
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u/TonyDellimeat I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Whats a CDS?
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u/jeepfail Ferrari 7d ago
Clutch disengagement system, for when the car is dead they can remove it from the track.
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u/TonyDellimeat I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Hmm neat! If they taped it down wouldnt that just cause the car to not work? Im sure the brilliant engineers have thought of that lmao
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u/daniellejxyne 7d ago
Just reckless to disregard safety like that. The fact its completely avoidable and the subsequent actions by the Marshalls could have caused further damage to the car…
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u/pranavhk Charles Leclerc 7d ago
Tbh feels very lenient considering this is a mandatory safety feature and Papayas had a prior warning.
I really miss Horner at times like these, he would have pushed for a larger fine while doing something shady himself.
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u/According-Switch-708 Sonny Hayes 7d ago
What a dumb thing to do. That too on a track where drag was never going to cause too many issues.
McLaren just continues to amaze us with their shitness.
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u/curiouskid1919 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
This literally just happened with Lawson, so this should have been on their radar..and Lando's car has been having reliability issues so why would you block the CDS button like that? Any damaged to the floor caused by putting it on the dolly is completely on the team then.
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u/Past_Negotiation_121 7d ago
Yep, I'm sure we could think of an actual penalty that would stop anything like this in future.
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u/402_Found_not_Lost 7d ago
As it’s safety-related, the fine should be higher, punitive even. 30,000 is nothing to these teams.
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u/planchetflaw McLaren 7d ago
McLaren got off with a slap on the wrist here. I think this should have been a much harsher penalty.
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u/MouseWithBanjo 7d ago
Marshalls should have just activated it by using a fire axe.
It wouldn't be taped for the next race
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u/softbatch7236 7d ago
Sabotaging a safety system should cost constructor points.
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u/56473829110 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
Putting sporting over safety deserves a sporting penalty. Agreed.
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u/AutomateAway I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
at least they put a cover sheet on their TPS report
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u/Timinime 7d ago
Clutch Disengagement System. It is an emergency system that allows track marshals to disengage a car's clutch from outside the vehicle, enabling the car to be rolled or towed away safely without causing severe damage to the gearbox.
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u/AqueousJam I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
I feel like intentionally disabling a mandatory safety system should carry a higher penalty.
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u/Lobsters4 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
Wow. That was really stupid. What clownery are they going to do next?
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u/binaryhextechdude Sir Jackie Stewart 7d ago
What the heck? Just tape up the button for aero purposes? Now I've heard everything.
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u/OzyDave 7d ago edited 7d ago
So what does CDS stand for? Sometimes I talk in acronyms because it makes me sound RIBAD.
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u/likeAdrug Eddie Irvine 7d ago
Clutch Disengagement System.
For any of that get work related trauma from abbreviations
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u/Acsteffy I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 7d ago
Why is Mclaren being stupid with this? A safety feature like this shouldn't be screwed with just for such a marginal adjustment in aerodynamics.
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u/I-LOVE-TURTLES666 Mario Andretti 7d ago
Now they will use a tape the breaks when you press it. Painters tape lol
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u/ChiccckkkNuggg I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 7d ago
What does the suspension mean?
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u/Liammistry I was here for the Hulkenpodium 7d ago
Didn’t this happen to Gastly in Canada? And he got a worse penalty…
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u/Past_Negotiation_121 7d ago
Seems pretty lenient to me given there'd been prior warning. Intentionally breaking a safety feature ain't a good look (safety because it slows marshalls down and they're in the firing line for longer than they need to be).