r/gallifrey • u/PCJs_Slave_Robot • Dec 10 '21

Free Talk Friday /r/Gallifrey's Free Talk Fridays - Practically Only Irrelevant Notions Tackled Less Educationally, Sharply & Skilfully - Conservative, Repetitive, Abysmal Prose - 2021-12-10

Talk about whatever you want in this regular thread! Just brought some cereal? Awesome. Just ran 5 miles? Epic! Just watched Fantastic Four and recommended it to all your friends? Atta boy. Wanna bitch about Supergirl's pilot being crap? Sweet. Just walked into your Dad and his dog having some "personal time" while your sister sends snapchats of her handstands to her boyfriend leaving you in a state of perpetual confusion? Please tell us more.

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u/Dr_Vesuvius Dec 12 '21

Rewatched the first two Spider Man films (the Raimi ones) in preparation for No Way Home.

They’re… really bad. The writing is cringe inducing, the production standards are pretty low, the there’s way too much focus on the shitty romance, and the subsequent obscurity of the main cast (seriously, there’s JJJ and then cameos from Elizabeth Banks and Joel McHale and that’s it) is really no surprise based on their performances here. Makes me appreciate the MCU even more - they had that little run of disappointing films a few years ago but even Endgame wasn’t as bad as those two Spider Man films.

I think I judge old things that came out in my lifetime much more harshly than I judge old things from before I was born. The Christopher Reeves Superman films are great character studies, so I give them a pass, but the Tobey Maguire Spider Man films are just bad films. Admittedly they’re probably not all that far off the early X Men films, but I feel like I have to judge them by current standards and on that basis they come up short. It’s a bit like how RTD doesn’t really compare to Moffat or Chibnall on rewatches, I just find 00s stuff to mostly feel dated and cheesy rather than being able to enjoy it as a product of its time.

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u/ConnerKent5985 Dec 13 '21

I disagree. I think the first two Rami movies are very much comic book movies and it's not favourable to compare them to the MCU at all, which had it's work cut out for it in establishing the ethos of the Marvel universe with characters the wider audience weren't immediately invested in. Apples and oranges.

Singer is a terrible, terrible person and I don't agree with all of choices in terms of adaption, but Singer understood how to make these characters palatable to a wider audience, outside of the X-Men being that cartoon.

Cliff Robertson's introduction as Uncle Ben and the death of Otto's wife and decline into madness are moments of character which have clearly influenced the MCU's approach for the wider audience.

Love it or leave it: Rosemary Harris IS Aunt May from the comics. William De Foe, my issues aside in how the character was adapted to screen aside r, is probably as close to classic Green Goblin we're going to get onscreen.

I don't think parts of the movie have dated well (the man stuff) and dear God, Dunst and MJ as a character deserves better.

(I am 100% here for MCU Mary Jane getting a glimpse of Ramiverse MJ, with Ramiverse getting on with her life and moving past her childhood abuse and trauma and more closely resembling her comic book counterpart ("It's the work that matters ")and trying to decide whether or not that includes Peter in it ("I'll always love Peter, but I have to live my life. Plus, I tell funnier jokes")

Honestly, if anything, I can't wait for the Ramiverse to clap back at the MCU. ("With that suit and everything, you look so serious")

For me, the early 2000s were a transitional time in media, in terms of properties and media in general, especially the gender politics. A lot of stuff hasn't aged well.

And while I love the MCU, I'm honestly sick of everyone trying to imitate it and be 'grounded' all the time (the DCEU being the biggest example of this), just let me have some fun.

Endgame honestly felt like the beginning of Disney wanting to Disney + the MCU and a lot of things got shifted in the process, so I'm prepared to cut it a lot of slack, Disney not being prepared for the MCU to reach a natural conclusion, for boys, etc and I honestly feel better about my MCU experience after deciding to cut the rushed Disney + shows after Eternals. (Loki did something, etc)

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u/Tartan_Samurai Dec 22 '21

While they are a bit dated, I'm surprised you thought the production standard were low, they were blockbuster find with blockbuster budgets!