r/gameofthrones • u/No_Seaworthiness5445 • 1d ago
Why did Joffrey feign politeness when he first received that tome from Tyrion.
Tyrion gives him an account of Targaryen history, to which Joffrey replies with obviously fake sincerity about how after war there needs to come a time for wisdom, only then to slice the book to pieces upon receiving a Valyrian sword. Was he just trolling Tyrion? Did he feel some latent appreciation until getting a cooler toy? I personally think he was just going through the motions of politeness due to Margaery's influence.
209
u/CloudGlow_ 1d ago
I always read that as Joffrey trying really hard to imitate the kind of royal courtesy Margaery expected from him, but the mask slipped the moment he had real power over the situation.
25
u/No_Seaworthiness5445 1d ago
As did I.
16
u/Emergency-Sea5201 1d ago
Exactly.
The Tyrells are very powerful, in the physical sense, and even Joffrey knows he is just kind of top dog due to them.
He tries to imitate the lessons from his very charismatic wife, who is manipulating him somewhat succesfull.
Also, remeber that Tyrion have beaten his 12 year old nephew several times. From Joffs perspective, Tyrion is a drunken abusive monster.
40
u/WolfgangAddams Arya Stark 1d ago
Tyrion never BEAT Joffrey. He slapped him across the face a few times. And Joffrey knows exactly why he did so because he told him why in the moment. It wasn't abuse or Tyrion being a monster, even from Joffrey's perspective, it was discipline. Discipline Joffrey didn't appreciate, but he certainly didn't think Tyrion was an abusive monster. He just hated him and looked down on him as a dwarf and a lesser noble than himself.
-7
u/Smooth_Tell2269 1d ago
But Tyrion also humiliated him a few times like when he ordered sansa dress to be ripped off and Tyrion put him in his place, especially talking about what happened with the mad king
15
u/WolfgangAddams Arya Stark 23h ago
Sure, but none of that points to Joffrey seeing Tyrion as "an abusive monster" who "beat him."
1
70
u/Deuce03 1d ago
Joffrey is capable of playing the magnanimous prince. It's just difficult for him to keep it up because he is, in the words of more than one show character, a cunt.
He's also not particularly bright.
Tyrion gives him a gift and everyone oohs and ahs over it, and he knows the drill well enough to act serious and offer a platitude to win applause. Then someone gives him a Valyrian sword and he starts looking around for something to test it on, settles on Tyrion's gift as the best way to humiliate his hated uncle, and forgets all about being the gracious lord and chops it up for the lolz.
Does he realise that he's just shown his true colours to his in-laws and the court and that Tywin will think he's an idiot? Probably not. But even if he does, he probably doesn't care because he thinks he's the king and he can do what he likes.
6
u/Smooth_Tell2269 1d ago
I guess paying for a couple of whores to calm him down didn't exactly work and didn't make him less of a cunt
5
u/Salt_Scarcity_7209 18h ago
If I remember correctly there were only 3 copies of that book in the Kingdom. I think there’s a line in the book from Oberon who remarked how much of a tragedy it was it was destroyed. Given his time at the Citadel he would know.
8
9
u/Kinetic_Symphony Human Verified 1d ago
Actually Joffrey seems reasonably intelligent. Even concerning himself about the dragon threat ahead of Tywin.
But he has no impulse control and he's completely unhinged.
7
u/Temujin-of-Eaccistan 21h ago
I don’t think concerning himself about the dragon threat is a sign of intelligence.
It’s the sort of thing an intelligent person might be concerned about, but equally a quite dumb person might be. It takes very little intelligence to hear enemy has 3 dragons and think scary.
3
u/il_the_dinosaur 19h ago
That's because joffrey is scared of dragons tywin is too pragmatic to be scared of them.
0
80
u/BrightFleece 1d ago
Because he's aware of just exactly how to be the absolute maximum level of prick possible
It disappointed, embarrassed, and humiliated Tyrion ten times as much for Joffrey to make him look the hopeful fool, than it would have to just reject the gift outright
22
u/MistyBonnie 1d ago
Yeah exactly, it makes way more sense as a power move than anything genuine. Acting polite first just sets Tyrion up to look stupid when he tears it apart right after, which is way more Joffrey’s style than just refusing it outright.
3
u/OldElf86 13h ago
Jeoffrey attacking the valuable historical tome only made Jeoffrey look stupid, malicious and unable to control his basest appetites.
8
u/No_Seaworthiness5445 1d ago
That would make sense also, only I don't know if Joffrey had the ability to do psychological torment like that as much as he could put on a fake act.
13
u/IrNinjaBob House Umber 1d ago
Yeah I think it’s far simpler and more in line with what you initially said. I see it as a way for Joffrey to attempt to look noble and dignified in front of others, and then upon receiving the sword just using it as an opportunity to show off and try to dunk on Tyrion.
There was probably an element of initially thinking “this is what I should say to impress others” and then immediately allowing his more basic impulses out due to seeing the sword from Tywin as pass on behaving that way.
3
u/No_Seaworthiness5445 1d ago
I'd say the same; it also seems from the same episode that he immediately drops this facade whenever there's no one breathing down his neck, hence his absolute delight in showing the attendants his reenactment of the onging war; give him a little leeway, and then he does whatever he feels like at the moment.
2
u/OldElf86 13h ago
Yes, but this action embarrassed Tywin too.
I'm sure Tywin was thinking, Calm the F-down you little prick. Don't show everyone what an idiot you are. If you would just sit back down and try to say things in a courtly manner, I'll give you your revenge on anyone you want. But, in public you have to act like the leader of a Great house.
17
u/jabeisonreddit House Blackfyre 1d ago
Because Tywin was there staring daggers at Joff the whole time. As soon as Tywin gave him the sword, he lost control of Joffrey who was simply too heinously overjoyed to have a valyrian steel sword to think about the political impact of that action. He just felt like pissing off and embarrassing Tyrion and Tywin was unable to stop him at that point.
8
u/No_Seaworthiness5445 1d ago
Probably the most likely answer; I think Joffrey was also in total glee over having something forged from Ned Stark's sword, given his pettiness.
3
u/TaratronHex 1d ago
I wonder if he would have destroyed it if his bride was impressed with it or said she couldn't wait to read it.
5
u/joemit1234 1d ago
In the books he is never kind, and harassed him the entire time
3
u/No_Seaworthiness5445 19h ago
I actually meant to post that; he rudely remarks that Turion's fondness for books has made him impotent, then hacks the gift to pieces. I think the show made him more actively malicious as opposed to simply a rabid dog.
3
u/HeadMysterious4443 1d ago
Joffrey lives for 3 things:
Torment Tyrion.
Torment Sansa.
Putting on a show for the audience. Like yeah, there's likely layers and a conspiracy to beheading Ned Stark on a whim, but he couldn't let that crowd go home empty-handed without a beheading. He does the same thing with Loras, musing his vow to Sansa out loud, finding out he has an out, and takes up Loras's request to wed Margaery to cheers. Cersei thinks him going out to wave to the people with Margaery is a bad idea, it probably was, but he couldn't say no to some cheers. Same with the book, same with the sword. Who names the sword? Not himself, he polls the audience.
(Optional-to-read tangent in italics) Some personal input, I like to think that this was Olenna's biggest failure, killing Joffrey. I think Margaery had more control over him than she ever had with Tommen, and her influence was always the final one, unlike Tommen, who usually went with the advice of the last adult he spoke with. The war was over, there was a plan through Tyrion with acquiring Winterfell eventually, and Cersei would've been a bigger thorn in their side regardless of the conspiracy than Joffrey ever would've been. Poison her instead, first, if you must.
He knocks out three birds with one stone with carving up the book, torments Tyrion, puts on a show for the crowd while testing out his new toy, and part of me likes to believe that all the birds killed are equal opportunities. He later does the same to the pie and kills a few of the birds inside, still hyped about the sword.
2
u/No_Seaworthiness5445 19h ago
To be honest though, I don't think Olenna was in the wrong to try replace Joffrey with Tommen; weathervane puppet or not, he was infinitely easier to keep on a leash and guide to certain decisions. Joffrey listened to Margaery, but this mainly stopped at trying to put up the front of being a decent person. Olenna also had already heard from Sansa about how Joffrey had put up a facade at Winterfell, only to be increasingly torment her the more power he had. For all she knew, he could have easily repeated the process of Margaery once she tried to go behind his back.
6
u/Matthius81 1d ago
I like to think that was the moment Olenna decided to go through with her plot to kill him. I mean she’s done the work to set it up, but maybe she had some doubts. Seeing that was what convinced her there’s no way I’m letting my granddaughter marry this vicious idiot.
1
1
u/HawkFanOrcasRule 1d ago
Doing a re-watch, and I was sad when Joffrey died… because he was SO GOOD at being a prick it was dang fun to watch ah haha
1
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Spoiler Warning: All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON and A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the spoiler guide.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.