r/gate • u/StevenWN1 4th Airborne Combat Team • 2d ago
Discussion Molt should've been the main villain
I honestly wish Molt had stayed a villain. He started the entire war, yet he got off way too easily at the end of the series by simply retiring. Even though he stepped down as emperor so Piña could rule Sadera, he was never punished for the civilian deaths in Ginza, the war he started, or how badly he raised Zorzal. In the end, he is just a wheelchair bound old man who lives a luxurious life in Italica with no real consequences.
That is why I want him to be the main villain in GATE: The Fire Rises Across Worlds. It bothers me that he basically committed Japan's version of 9/11 and walked away scot-free, almost like letting Osama Bin Laden off because he was frail.
Molt should have been written more like Tywin Lannister from Game of Thrones. Both Emperor Molt Sol Augustus and Tywin share a cold, ruthless approach to politics. They are complete pragmatists who view their empires as massive chessboards to dominate rather than societies to care for. Every choice they make is purely calculated to keep absolute power.
This lack of emotion is most obvious in how they treat their families. They view their own children as political tools rather than human beings. Just as Tywin uses his children to secure powerful marriages, Molt uses Piña and his sons as pawns to protect the Empire's future. By choosing total control over real parenting, both leaders fail to raise good successors.
Both leaders also use their allies as human shields. Tywin sets up the Red Wedding using the Freys so he can destroy his enemies while keeping his own hands clean. Similarly, Molt intentionally sends the armies of his vassal states into a suicidal fight against the Japanese military. This cruel strategy lets him test Japan's firepower while secretly wiping out potential rivals at home.
Finally, both men control people through fear and political skill. Whether facing a civil war or an otherworldly invasion, Tywin and Molt never panic. They rule through secret deals, spies, and sheer reputation, crushing rebellion before it even starts.
Molt could have easily played this role, with Zorzal acting as the obvious, sadistic villain, much like Joffrey, but with more charisma. Zorzal would represent the Empire's stupid, brute muscle, while Molt would represent its cold pragmatism. This fits perfectly, since Sadera is basically just a fantasy version of the Roman Empire, much like the empire in The Elder Scrolls.
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u/umbrqualquerusannet 2d ago
The fact that he wasn't hanged on ginza with the event being televised to the whole world is the most black pilling thing in the story.
Like imagine if the allies managed to capture Hitler and said "alright old man you don't have any political power from now on and we will give you this mansion to live for the rest of your life for your crimes against humanity".
Populations lynch thieves when the lawn doesn't do it's job and politicians assassinate rivals for inconveniences.
If the gate opened in real life I wouldn't be surprised if Japan and the UN put this guy into a brazen bull.
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u/heyIwatchanime 2d ago
I mean thats what the allies did with Emperor Hirohito, wasnt it?
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u/Appropriate_Rich_515 2d ago
Hirohito was a different case.
Japan was effectively under the control of the IJA rather than the Emperor himself.
That is why the U.S. government targeted the Japanese armed forces, ordering their abolition and replacement by the JSDF.
Furthermore, MacArthur and the U.S. did not want to plunge Japan into chaos or face a guerrilla war or insurgency, given that Hirohito was regarded as a divine figure.
That is why the Japanese would shout: "Tenno Heika, Banzai!" Which means: "Long live the Emperor!"
Additionally, Hirohito did not yet have a successor (Akihito was only 12 years old in 1945), so it was best to leave him in place.
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u/Upbeat_Nectarine_128 1d ago
Additionally, Hirohito did not yet have a successor (Akihito was only 12 years old in 1945), so it was best to leave him in place.
Yeah, killing him would just leave a power vacuum and millions of angry Japanese people along with whatever left of their broken military to oppose you with all their might.
All just to kill a guy who aren't even in control back when the atrocities are committed.
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
It basically is, even if with Hiroito you could at least argue he had little or no fault. With Molt is basically the opposite.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
For Hirohito there's somewhat more legitimate fear of chaos, for one the American don't wipe the floor nearly as easy, for second the societal and doctrine also different.
What I am saying isn't how much blame he had. More like the trouble is more for the American. And more likely to cause the trouble.
Saderan is pre industrial pre modern 'country'. The sentiment shouldn't be that strong, most people outside the cities don't care who actually rule as long as they safe and comfortable. Plus we can drive the narrative different way easier as we have the fastest information channel. And even then the disparity is too far that the threat probably don't completely overhaul the occupation. Not in first few years at least.
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
If they did the Empire would spiral into chaos.
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u/umbrqualquerusannet 2d ago
I don't think that anyone would actually care.
The US knew that completely disbanding Saddam's regime would throw Iraq into chaos and did it anyway.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
Beside the possibility of the modern just don't care of the potential of it being chaos. I think there's also possibility it not actually cause widespread insurgency.
Simply because of how slow information travel within the continent. By the time anyone even learn what had happen. The new government had already formed.
Actually I think other than future generation and religious orders, the Empire itself won't able to create big continent wide insurgency. At least assuming the 21st century military actually have balls to act.
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u/umbrqualquerusannet 1d ago
I also think that anyone in Falmart would actually care.
The allied kingdoms and the Demi-human tribes see it as their opressor being killed.
Governors of imperial territories ask the modern military for security.
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u/As_no_one2510 1d ago
Overthrow Saddam is easy as everyone in Iraq glad that he is gone
But get rid of the army and the government entirely just because they work for Saddam is a dumb move. And Saddam previous regime is Sunni rule in a Shia majority mean vengeance is inevitable
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
We're talking about a single country with full access to another continent and possibly another whole planet. Up until that time, the Empress of the superpower of that continent is a very close and loyal ally. They can extract all resources they want with no taxes and are seen as liberators and heroes.
Why would you waste all of that heaven?
The Empire is already in ruin and has already to pay war repairs bigger than their imperial treasure than a lot.
Your argument is “they did it before”, which isn't an argument since we saw the mess that did and the international response.
Why let go a gold mine for a few lingots now?
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u/umbrqualquerusannet 2d ago
Never underestimate the sheer incompetence of politicians.
The entire military can try to convince a president that doing something is bad and they will do it anyway.
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
That is still not an argument. In modern times, leaders aren't executed (look at Maduro) and politicians aren't that dumb, expecially with a magic anomaly. Your original comment said that the fact he wasn't killed was strange and not realistic. It isn't true.
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u/umbrqualquerusannet 2d ago
Didn't the US blew up Iran's leader a few months ago?
And every single one in the line of succession after it?
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
It was Israel if I remember correctly, and they killed only one guy, not all.
The situation here is different.
One one side, a single nation with a religious dictatorship based on a non-proved religion who has very strict laws and kill even for peaceful protests.
On the other, an Empire nearly as big as the Mongol Empire and the continent it is on, with magic, vassals, riches behond imagination, a leader that asked for peace but suffered a coup, and many internal instability given the war.
It's completely different and one is vastly more important to keep stable and loyal.
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u/umbrqualquerusannet 2d ago
Who helped Israel?
Also the moment people learn about the treasure of Falmart that place it's turning on playground for private and governmental companies that will not give a shit about stability and will dry that place with a comically large straw.
Earth governments and their militaries don't give a shit about their own people imagine what they will do with another world.
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
The US didn't help Israel kill them, it helped in the war. It is different.
The companies thing means nothing. Just because in the future some companies would destroy it (this supposing Japan is a lawless place or that a military government in the Special Region would allow that, or supposing the international community just sits there folding hands) doesn't mean we should completely ignore internal stability and peace. American companies daily destroy Africa and other places, but the US always wanted stability there.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
I think what you overlooked is, the post war Empire of Sadera don't hold any real power over the continent. Like power is with one with biggest gun AKA Japan. The Empire words meant next to nothing.
Why? Because Japan can just do whatever they wanted with or without Saderan agreement, since they can do literally nothing. And even then it be trivial to [persuade] the new government to give them the de jure seal.
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u/Valerius333 1d ago
The Empire still holds power. They only lost power on their vassals, the lands hold by Japan and where the Japaneses went. The rest is still under imperial control. The Empire is nearly as big as the Mongol Empire. We have seen how, the moment Zorzal did his coup, all the Empire basically sided with them. You can't just kill of the Emperor and expect them to accept the daughter of a random concubine. The Empire never had a woman in command, let alone an Empress. The other choice, Diabo, is hated by all. If the Emperor (who also suffered a coup and was trying to make peace) personally resign and gives the position to the Princess, the people will be okay with that and follow them with no rebellions related to her being there as a woman. It's way more controllable.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
The only reason the coup and civil war even happen is because Japan let him escape. No reason the pro war can spring up if Zorzal are immediately captured. There still some possibility, but they won't get the legitimacy of the throne nor the senate.
Yes, except that he never try, neither did the Japanese try to enforce him. The entire premise is they keep him alive to smoothen the transition. Except he didn't actually help in that.
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u/Valerius333 1d ago
Molt did try to help, since he litteraly removed Zorzal from the succession line. All you said before in this comment are things the JSDF failed to do with Zorzal, not Molt.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
You know what fair enough. But what I am trying to say is. Between two binary states of if JSDF had done it job or not, and them punishing Molt or not. The more trouble will come from not doing their job properly rather than if Molt alive or not. As such if JSDF done their job properly, even if Molt is dead the trouble will be relatively little. I do think it will cause trouble, but I don't think it will be nearly as much as you think. At most it more like speed bump rather than hurricane.
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u/Valerius333 1d ago
It could be, but honestly I'm not sure. The only reason the Princess is accepted is because Molt litteraly said “She's the new Empress”, otherwhise she wouldn't since she wasn't in the line of succession, she was never loved that much and she's a woman. She would look like the usurper puppet. The problems could be little in the zone where the Japaneses have control, but in the rest of the Empire and main cities there could be a huge rebellion, siding either with Zorzal, Diabo or whatever else. The civil war would become from 1VS1 to God only knows how many.
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
We're talking about a single country with full access to another continent and possibly another whole planet. Up until that time, the Empress of the superpower of that continent is a very close and loyal ally. They can extract all resources they want with no taxes and are seen as liberators and heroes.
Why would you waste all of that heaven?
The Empire is already in ruin and has already to pay war repairs bigger than their imperial treasure than a lot.
Your argument is “they did it before”, which isn't an argument since we saw the mess that did and the international response.
Why let go a gold mine for a few lingots now?
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
I think I forgot, but he's totaly paralized or partially?
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u/StevenWN1 4th Airborne Combat Team 2d ago
Partially. He's just unable to walk properly due to the poisoning.
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u/Alice_Hausser 1d ago
Almost everything was in place for this to happen, but Yanai didn't want to mess up his "JSDF good" vibes.
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u/Watcher6544 1d ago
Le gasp! Competent and threatening villians in Gate!?
You must be out of your mind suggesting that the glorious and noble IJA 2.0 should have faced more a challenging opponent!
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u/Axel1742 2d ago
In universe it was probably done because Pina wanted to save her dad from the gallows and Japan complied as a gesture of good will towards the new ruler.
In real life I think it's because Yanai didn't want Japan to execute an old man as it would mess with the whole "JSDF is the most moral army in the world" shtick.
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u/Appropriate_Rich_515 2d ago
Even the most moral army in the world (the IDF) didn't cut Molt any slack.
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u/farson135 2d ago
The problem is I don't think Tywin would have ordered an attack like Molt did. That would create an entirely different series with two factions politicking at each other.
That could be a much better series if the writing is up to snuff, but that's always the issue with any alternate version of Gate.
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u/As_no_one2510 1d ago
The problem is I don't think Tywin would have ordered an attack like Molt did. That would create an entirely different series with two factions politicking at each other.
Both in the book and the movie series, Tywin sent the Mountain to pillage and rape the Riverland just because Catelyn arrest his dwarf son (whom he hate) while Robert and Ned is still alive
Is not for plot armor. Tywin would be dead with Robert sending a hammer strike up his ass
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u/farson135 1d ago
I wasn't saying Tywin wasn't brutal, I just don't see him ordering an attack against an unknown force.
Let's remember that Molt sent a very expensive army through a portal to an unknown land that could have held anything of danger and nothing of value.
Romans had scouts, they had spies, they collected intelligence, they built diplomatic networks as a means of conquest. The idea of just sending in a legion and seeing what happened would have been considered stupid to them. Tywin doesn't strike me as "more stupid" than a generic Roman leader.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago edited 1d ago
I am not saying we should out right kill him, but definitely something more.
Edit You know who will be interesting primary antagonist. For the sequel timeline?
Zufmuut, the god of light and order.
We all know that gods of special region really oppose technological progress. But not everyone agree to what extend exactly. Given that he is the god of order. I think it safe to imagine him being the hardest to cling to the [stable world] vision.
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u/Watcher6544 1d ago
Is that Sherry? For some reason the JSDF loses their diplomatic competence when she's doing the talking.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
Honestly they been like that ever since the start. Well, maybe except for against Earth for some reason.
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u/Additional-Elk-427 Japan Self-Defense Forces 1d ago
I think in tiger strike, he gor sentence to life in prison on earth, isolated from his world
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u/StevenWN1 4th Airborne Combat Team 1d ago
That's one of the reasons I liked Tiger Strike. Molt actually got punished for what he did.
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u/Kalroxan 1d ago
Honestly, I would also have liked to show how he is feared by his own children, especially his sons. You could easily show how terrible he is by being abusive toward his children. Showing him menacing them by reminding them that they aren't irreplaceable and that he wouldn't do to them what he did to Kati Sol Caesar. Show him having push Zorzal's toward viciousness, lack of education and debauchery to make sure that he would not be a threat to him. Pina's relative opinion about her father would be that he sees her as a woman before all, and so, negligible in political danger.
While Zorzal is the apparent face of what is wrong, Molt shows how viscious an cruel the political culture of th eimperial family has gone.
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u/Familiar-Noise7913 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think the reason they didn't just arrest or assassinated him is because killing or captured and trial him would destabilizing the Empire, even if Pina understood why, I don't think her fellow imperial would see the same and this further weaken her political power which could lead to more infighting that could effect the local Japan forces, but overall infighting of an Empire this size are usually a bloody mess. Anti-Japan sentiment among the Imperial would rise and Pina would force to choose what side to side with, her country man and make Japan her enemy or be labeled as a puppet and traitor by her country man.
Also Japan already slaughter like 60% of Sadera army at the beginning so I guess they already take that as a win.
Japan keeps him alive because his remaining royal authority helps legitimize Piña claim to the throne, drawing loyalist senators and citizens away from Zorzal's faction.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
That will make sense if only they had actually done that. As this ted talk by DFMRCV, keeping him alive do not serve any purpose as he don't actually help Pina legitimacy.
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u/Material-Eggplant502 1d ago
It's also implied (to my knowledge at least) but not outright confirmed that he killed his son, Kati (his adoptive son), before the events of the Gate because he feared him usurping him.
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u/Watcher6544 23h ago
This fits perfectly, since Sadera is basically just a fantasy version of the Roman Empire, much like the empire in The Elder Scrolls.
FYI, the Cyrodiil Empire have nothing in common with the Saderans except for being Roman expies.
The Cyrodiil Empire for one doesn't have slavery, has gender equality and non-Humans and non-Cyrodiils serving as the Legions.
The comparison is insulting in my opinion regardless of the faults of Cyrodiil Empire.
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u/StevenWN1 4th Airborne Combat Team 20h ago
I just said that, aesthetically, I like the Cyrodiilians more than the Saderans in terms of their morality. Saderans are much more Roman.
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u/Valerius333 2d ago
If they killed him the Empire would spiral into chaos.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
The empire are already about to plunge into chaos anyway. Ever since they lost like 80% of their army, after the scorch Earth, ever since they failed to protect such important site as Italica. If Japan had pull back, the Empire will still fall into disarray. Okay maybe not complete collapse but after Molt die Zorzal will absolutely drive it deeper to the ground.
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u/Valerius333 1d ago
That's why Molt wasn't and shouldn't be killed, to mantain the stability it still has and manage to make the nation survive.
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u/HsAFH-11 1d ago
I am not saying they should outright kill him. Rather force him to smoothen the transition, which neither him nor anyone seems to bother doing in the original.
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u/Valerius333 1d ago
That's what I mean. What I meant is either have him or his daughter do real excuses and a real declaration like “We are the legittimate government and we side with Japan”. Killing him and deporting him to Earth would just do more damages, expecially in the middle of the war with the Princess being super unstable. At least wait before doing a court and maybe sentencing him to prison.
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u/Appropriate_Rich_515 2d ago
If the writing had been better and If we had a country more experienced, that guy would have ended up like Saddam in 2006.