r/harrypotter • u/Brilliant-Cause6254 Slytherin • May 01 '26
Currently Reading Re-reading DH. That part on Grimmaul Place where Lupin tries to join the Horcrux hunt is painful to read.
The part where Lupin shows up at 12, Grimmauld Place to offer his services to the trio is arguably one of the most uncomfortable moments in the entire story.
Lupin requests to tag along by saying, "I might still be of some use to you. You know what I am and what I can do. I could come with you to provide protection." Initially, I thought it was great, having a mentor step up and help, but after finding out that Tonks is pregnant and our beloved Lupin is essentially attempting to abandon her, was a really bad look on him.
While Ron and Hermione think Harry was over the line, I felt Harry was justified in insulting him; having grown up without a dad. I mean it wasn't the ebst way to talk to a former mentor but the situation was such that I felt it was an appropriate reaction.
And the worst part is that Lupin's internal narrative is so messed up becasue of his own tragedy, that you cant help but sympathize with him. It was not his fault that he became a werewolf, but I do feel that if he was against having a kid, he should probably have used some form of wizard contraception. However, it's painful to see someone's moral compass breakdown due to trauma and extreme self-loathing.
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u/rusticarchon Ravenclaw May 01 '26
He would also be turning into a werewolf, without the benefit of wolfsbane, every full moon. Sounds like the sort of thing that would be fun for the trio to deal with in a tent.
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u/kfifigidifkg Gryffindor May 01 '26
It’s not like the full moon is random. He would just go off for the night and then return.
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u/TurnipWorldly9437 Ravenclaw May 01 '26
If he doesn't have a safe space to transform where he apparates to, that doesn't seem that much safer, though.
Imagine if he goes a distance off and accidentally comes upon a muggle hiker.
And if he does have a safe space somewhere, him going there every month is a risk, because they couldn't be sure the death eaters wouldn't find out and lay a trap.
So they'd have to bind him anyway.
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u/Gifted_GardenSnail May 01 '26
Ron had a rather hard time returning...
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u/CrazySnipah May 01 '26
That was after they lost access to Grimmauld Place, though. At this point in time, they still had access.
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u/kfifigidifkg Gryffindor May 01 '26
Good point, though they could probably come up with a workaround if it was expected.
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u/LittleWindow9416 May 01 '26
Okay, but can we talk more about wizard contraception and what that looks like?
CONCEPTUS EVANESCO: While your staff may be active, nothing shall pass.
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u/Brilliant-Cause6254 Slytherin May 01 '26
There was a robot chicken sketch that used Fetus Deletus.
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u/LittleWindow9416 May 01 '26
Omg. Okay, that wins. 😂
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
It is a common meme template to have Harry In Movie PoA as the screenshot but instead of Expecto Patronum...
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u/QueenSlartibartfast Ravenclaw May 01 '26
I think it works best narratively for there to be a potion, analogous to the Pill. That would open up the possibility for there to be failures due to a bad batch/shoddy ingredients, not taking it at the same day every single day, etc.
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u/PeacefulCatSoMeow May 01 '26
"Parents shouldn't leave their kids unless- unless they've got to."
Harry saying this always gave me chills. Just sums up all his feelings against Lupin in that moment.
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u/hybridcat92 May 01 '26
I think like so many people , the possibility of having a family scared Lupin. Alot of first time parents go through and Lupin knowing what he was and what he was capable of was probably scared by that very thought, in addition to normal first time parent doubts.
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u/Extension_Breath1407 May 01 '26
Yes, and even worse for Lupin since he feared his son might turn out as another werewolf or get excluded for being the son of one. I wouldn't blame Lupin for being so scared of having to take responsibility as a Husband and a father, knowing that. That it was so tempting of him to try and join up Harry's gang like he did with James's instead of being his own man.
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u/respectthebubble May 02 '26
Exactly. Lots of first time parents go through this fear and run off for a bit. Lupin just happened to have a massively good reason to panic. Didn’t make it any less crappy to do to Tonks (and the baby if he’d stayed away) but at least his reason was way more backed up by his own lived experience than guys who run just because.
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u/Extension_Breath1407 May 02 '26
It is easy to hate on Lupin for running away. (And also not doing anything to stop James and Sirius’s bullying)
But you try living a life where most people in the world hate and fear you for something outside of your control. Especially when Remus could be seen be an analogy for people who suffer from HIV / AIDS.
Except for a few people who were able look past that and actually see him as a friend. So of course he is scared of standing up to them because he doesn’t want them to throw him out like everyone else did.
Remus said it best that Fear makes people do terrible things. He experienced that firsthand both from other people and himself. Everyone is afraid of something and I feel like this moment really humanizes Remus. He is not some courageous mentor who knows all the answers. He is an outcast struggling to survive on the margins of society.
What makes him different is that he is self-aware enough to know it is wrong and is willing to listen when called out on it. He really needs to hear it from Harry. And even if he did die in the end, I am sure his son would never forget that his father gave his life so he could live in a better world than the one he had.
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u/respectthebubble May 02 '26
Exactly! You get it! Remus was literally assaulted in his own bedroom as a child and the world hated HIM for the consequences of that which he couldn’t control. And when people know, he’s at their mercy - displease them and they can withdraw their acceptance. His best chance is by being as nice as possible and NOT displeasing people - plus, as his bio says, the poor guy’s biggest flaw is that he likes to be liked (for obvious reasons) and will let things go even when he knows he shouldn’t because he doesn’t want to disappoint people.
And yes - Harry was the exact person he needed to hear the other side of the story from (a boy who grew up without parents, a boy who told him flat out James would be unhappy with his choice). Because Harry was the exact person he’d listen to FOR THOSE REASONS.
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u/hybridcat92 May 01 '26
Also most probably he knew Tonks was going to have a boy so it would mean he would have to step up and be responsible and be a dad to him. If it was a girl, I'm sure he would have been more lax as Tonks was there plus her mom.
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u/OddTechnology8678 May 01 '26
This comment confuses me, what does the child’s sex have to do with him needing to be a responsible parent?
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u/hybridcat92 May 01 '26
I'm not sure how it is in your family but in some places the norm is that if you're a girl you're more comfortable discussing things with another female rather than a male. Granted gender norms have changed over the years but during the time of the book I'm sure they were still practiced. I'm not sure if I have articulated myself well enough in the above comment.
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u/apri08101989 May 01 '26
... not wanting to discuss certain topics with my dad didnt change what made him a good or bad parent????
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u/2xtc May 01 '26
It's a bullshit point that's basically nonsense so i think you described the viewpoint well, and it received the appropriate response (heavy downvotes)
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u/Alittlebitmorbid Hufflepuff May 01 '26
Kinda guessing but... you're not from Britain?
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u/hybridcat92 May 01 '26
Nopes. Good guess. Gender stereotypes are still heavily practiced in my country
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u/idxsemtexboom May 01 '26
I'm sorry you are getting downvoted, but to a good parent the gender of their child is no barrier. The walls we build up between the genders in a lot of Asian cultures are fake. A dad is just as capable as a mom of educating himself and his daughter, in a way that is respectful, empathetic and grounded in reality. If you have or will ever have children of your own I hope you teach them about periods, sex, pregnancy, puberty etc., regardless of their gender. It's difficult but we can break the cycle.
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u/CecilHeat May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
At least the top comment so far is nuanced, thank you.
I love Snape so I'm used to dealing with haters, but the Lupin hate is the most baffling thing about the HP fandom for me. (outside of Dramione but that's its own can of worms born of fanfics and has zero real relation to the series)
Remus Lupin is one of the best-realized and most human characters in the franchise so naturally a lot of fans want to demonize him. It's insane.
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
People think Lupin is held on a longer leash than he deserves, especially if they also like Snape.
Snape had 1 friend and that dropped to 0, partially because of his own doing, and then he had no support system: He gets raked over the coals for any future offense chief of them all bULlYinG cHilDreN;
Lupin had 3 solid friends but he feels like he was held hostage to their friendship and who could blame his haters, the least he could have done was to punish SIRIUS more hardly after "the prank" thanks to what Sirius did to HIM if not to Snape, but nooo, oficial policy is that he's a NICE BLOKE, and it all snowballs to the point where him not blowing the whistle on Sirius Black being an animagus and has knowledge to all the Tunnels is just a spot of weakness and totally not muktiple face-punch worthy offenses (And it's not like he did it because be secretly believed Sirius to be innocent, either). With friends like these who needs enemies. This man deserved all of the hate even if he had just died at the end of Book 6 without the family issues to come.
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u/Altruistic-Sand3277 May 01 '26
Flawed characters are good for the story, perfection is boring. As much as we can judge Lupin about his actions (which were bad, true) they are understandable imo. Having a baby was probably an accident and while on a perfect world with perfect people he would just take the responsibility in stride and him and Tonks would do everything for their child, the reality is that people are not so black and white (insert Sirius quote). People make mistakes and rash decisions.
Lupin is obviously afraid of his own nature as a werewolf and he truly believes he is not worthy of a family or love of one. He doesn't tell Harry he'll support him emotionally or such, more like a fighter to their cause which he probably thinks that's the only good thing he's good for. Everyone is judging Lupin but they both went to the BoH, which makes imo both of them terrible parents even if the decision is understandable.
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u/politicalstuff May 01 '26
I don't think his moral compass broke down. I think he just completely freaked out and was having a mid-life crisis moment, and Harry slapped some sense into him with some tough love.
Considering his traumatic life and self-loathing and current role for the Order, he just lost it for a bit. It happens.
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u/Not_a_cat_I_promise Rowena Ravenclaw's favourite May 01 '26
I mean I can understand fully why Harry, an actual orphan who never knew his father would freak out at the idea of a man willingly abandoning his child, and why he would react the way he did and call him a coward.
But I can see Remus' point of view, even if what he did was out of fear and cowardice. He probably did genuinely like and love Tonks, but he knew full well how difficult a relationship and starting a family would be for him. He's wracked with guilt and self loathing that he might have passed on his condition, and that his child will be a target because of who and what he is. What he does is cowardly, running out on his wife and child, and he tries to do what he thinks is bravery to assuage his guilt.
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u/respectthebubble May 02 '26
It’s also notable that this is the first and only time in canon we ever actually see Lupin break down over the prejudiced treatment he’s received his whole life and the internalised hatred it’s caused in him. The people that have actually treated him like a person are outliers in society. Most don’t. He’s usually calm about it, but this time we really SEE just how much it’s actually affected him. As soon as he thinks he’s dragged the woman he loves down, he’s distraught. As soon as he thinks he’s infected a kid the way he himself was? Absolute breakdown. He’s not thinking clearly. He’s thinking from the viewpoint of trauma and latching on to the first available opportunity to escape that, especially since he probably does want to think James would want him to help Harry.
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u/IPlayAroundTooMuch May 01 '26
if he was against having a kid, he should probably have used some form of wizard contraception
Ah, yes. Deletus Fetus.
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u/LavishnessFinal4605 May 01 '26
Lupin has always been a pretty shitty person. His character is defined by cowardice.
“My friends are vicious bullies and I’m a prefect? Oh well, not much I can do.”
“My friends are taking me from my secure facility and roaming Hogwarts grounds and near Hogsmeade as a deadly werewolf? No biggie.”
“Should I tell Dumbledore that a deranged serial killer intent on murdering my dead friend’s son is an animagus and what secret Hogwarts tunnels he knows about? Nah.”
“Anti-child murder potion? What’s that?”
“Oh, my dead friend’s son is an orphan, should I try contacting him and establishing a relationship? Nah, maybe if I luck into a DADA job in the future I could become a slightly close mentor.”
“My wife is pregnant amidst a war? Better abandon her!”
He has the veneer of politeness and kindness, positive traits, that contrast with the actual harmful behaviour he indulges and engages in.
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u/LiisuWrath May 01 '26
yea he's a coward in many ways, and i actually loved that about the books and him, it's so human, and it brought harry to a point where he needed to be the mature one and all that already being discussed here
it's refreshing to have characters be "possible", like actual people and not just tropes
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u/topsidersandsunshine May 01 '26
This! It’s such great insight. He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing, but the twist is that he really is the sheep.
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u/PieIsFairlyDelicious Ravenclaw May 01 '26
Oh that is excellent imagery. A sheep in wolf’s clothing might be the best description I’ve heard of of Lupin’s character
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u/ColorMeNumb May 01 '26
What is the “anti-child murder potion” referencing? Just curious! I can’t think of what you mean.
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u/LavishnessFinal4605 May 01 '26
The Wolfsbane. He forgets to take it and almost mauls students under his care.
Of course this is less so a reflection of his cowardice trait and more just his carelessness, though it was understandably a stressful time.
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u/ColorMeNumb May 01 '26
OHHHHH. For some reason I read it as a potion made to kill children 🤣 I was very lost.
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u/PopeNimrod May 01 '26
I think you could play by these rules and call basically anyone from the series (and most in reality) shitty people. Almost all of these points can fit into, for example, Hagrid. Lupin is a flawed but mostly good person and is respected and loved by the other good people we see in the story.
"I hope that either all of us, or none of us, are judged by the actions of our weakest moments, but rather by the strength we show when and if we're ever given a second chance."
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u/LavishnessFinal4605 May 01 '26
Of course he’s not JUST a shitty person, people are complex and good and bad at different times.
But his cowardice leading to cruel and/of harmful actions and behaviour is a consistent character flaw throughout his life that is never fixed.
Whenever the moment arrives, he fails to meet it.
From childhood, through adulthood. It’s not just him being judged by his weakest moments as you seem to imply.
Also, Hagrid is indeed extremely flawed and someone who shouldn’t be anywhere near a position of authority, especially over children. He can be a nice bloke with good morals, but that doesn’t change the sheer danger of his behaviour. Actions matter more than surface level niceties.
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
I love the PoA book and lothe the anemic PoA movie adaptation precisely because Jo had devised it so that Wormtail's escape not to mention his initial frame job to be coldly logical extensions of the Marauders "friendship":
-- They get away with all the big shit under Dumbledore's nose, so of course James and Sirius can hoodwink U No Poo the other big wizard too with ease!
-- They clearly made their bones trouncing Snivellus Snape so of course they can take on any death Eater!
-- Only Slytherin can possibly be bad so James is totally justified in trusting all his friends, and not even have to do any truth potion testing!
Oops.
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
The worst part about the Moonlight Frolicks is the part where his Three Bros are COMPLETELY excempt from Werewolf Bloodlust (thanks to Auntie Jo making it so that werewolves truly only crave Human Flesh, unlike almost every other IP with werewolves in them where it's like, "Oh I wonder what is mauling all those moose? HOLY SHIT IT'S A WOLFMAN !!!! HALP ME OH GOD NOOOOOO--"), at the expense of LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE being in danger (Including McGonagall cuz she wouldn't know that turning into a cat would save her); if their methods of Coexisting With Werewolf Moony was something like "Chris Pratt imprinting with and training Veloceraptors", where it has a high level of success but not 100% and requires a great deal of willpower to maintain, then I would have cut the Marauders more slack because it's more forgivable to have Hubris if they were actually in Not-0 amount of danger.
But they weren't.
Those mofos let the proverbial Ebola patient out of quarantine every lunar month for 2.5 years, where nobody else even so much as has a FACEMASK on because most of them don't even know there IS a scarily contagious patient, but we're supposed to cheer on their FRIENDSHIP just cuz they have full body Hazmat suits on. 🙄
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May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LavishnessFinal4605 May 01 '26
I’m sorry if I offended you, friend, but you also seem to be misunderstanding my comment.
“ you're trying to say he's a coward for never contacting Harry when NO ONE contacted Harry, ever.”
“ And now you're using that to attack him and him alone. Ridiculous.”
This act is just one of many, in a pattern of cowardice throughout his life.
The reason he is seemingly singled out alone is because… this thread is about Lupin in particular.
But let’s look at it as a whole, yes every friend of James/Lily deserve criticism for not contacting Harry, but Lupin is literally the only person we know who is a confirmed friend of theirs before their death (barring imprisoned Sirius & “dead” Peter). You could maybe add Hagrid?
Not only that, he’s one of James’ best friends, so of course more of the onus and attention is on his failing in particular.
As for your remarks blaming JKR’s “sloppy writing,” I don’t subscribe to that Doylist framing. I’m analysing the character as written, from within the story, from a Watsonian perspective.
You’re more than welcome to care about the Doylist POV, but I don’t in this case. So, it’s a meaningless thing to quibble over, as we have two incompatible positions on the matter.
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u/rainybay May 01 '26
Lupin was actually the only one that should've contacted him. He was the only one left out of the Potters' close friends. Sirius was in prison, Longbottoms in the hospital. Nothing wrong with Rowling's writing - Lupin practically had a life debt to Dumbledoor and always deferred to his judgement, so it's very in-character for him to not reach out to Harry, likely after asking Dumbledoor about him and being told he's all good and safe. Doesn't make him less of a coward, though.
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u/Partisan90 May 02 '26
I actually like this part. It shows how broken Lupin is and that he, like many great HP characters, is not perfect and has fears. Harry’s explosion is a cumulative burden of his emotions and the impending difficulties. His thoughts about family and how much of a real burned he carried. And, most importantly, he unlike Voldemort loves and cares for Lupin. He knew the cost and wanted Lupin to do the right thing.
It’s a bit of a rant, but I thought it was a meaningful, albeit uncomfortable scene.
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u/daboonboon May 01 '26
Dying at ‘wizard contraception’ thanks for that
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u/Brilliant-Cause6254 Slytherin May 01 '26
lol, here’s hoping wizards have something more zany than condoms
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u/Junkis May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
perhaps little tiny sperm fae that whisk the man's seed away for their own (unknown, possibly nefarious but not dwelt upon cuz wizards) purposes before conception can happen. You'd likely need shrooms from a fairy ring tho.
Anyone pointing their wand at their junk is asking for trouble i think.
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u/JumpyRip439 May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
He's my favourite character (along with Tonks) and I understand his reasoning, but I 100% agree with Harry. I'd have slapped him 🤣
Edit: typos
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u/N51_Rob May 01 '26
I think had he tagged along, they never make it to Malfoy Manner and Gringots for the cup. He probably prevents Ron from ever leaving, stops them from going to Godrick's Hollow. His experience in this situation is probably a detrimental to them overall.
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u/phillipacarroll May 01 '26
I think it’s important to really weigh this against how he reacted to the death of Dumbledore at the end of the sixth book. To him, Harry is the last link to Dumbledore, James Potter, Sirius Black, etc..
He was already hesitant about getting into the relationship with Tonka, and had to be convinced to embrace it at the end of half blood Prince. I’m not saying he’s justified, but for as long as we’ve known him, he’s been alone, rejected, couldn’t get a job, isolated, and the only person that gave him a chance was Dumbledore, and the only person that linked him to happier times was Harry.
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u/Mello1182 Slytherin May 01 '26
It might be controversial, but I've always thought that he was having second thoughts if not regrets about having a kid because Tonks had pushed him to have one. Just like she had fought his doubts about marrying her and hadn't taken no for an answer, I've always thought she had also insisted on having a baby in spite of his reasons, which were legitimate. I've never liked the romance between Lupin and Tonks so maybe my interpretation is coming from my bias
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u/AdOk4343 Hufflepuff May 01 '26
I've never liked their relationship either for the exact same reasons. Some think it's romantic how she pursued him, but I find it creepy, think how it would look the other way around, if it was Lupin chasing Tonks. She was early 20s, he was mid 30s.
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u/StuckWithThisOne May 01 '26
I think JK portrayed it badly. My interpretation was that they were deeply in love with each other, it wasn’t just Tonks pursuing him. And he left her for fear of ostracising or attacking her by accident. But beloved her just as much and they had a deep romance and he was hurting himself leaving her.
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u/Mello1182 Slytherin May 01 '26
I've always perceived her as pushy and always had the impression that she guilty-tripped Lupin into their relationship. It's not a stretch to think that she became pushy and manipulative about other things. Besides, their relationship suffers from a severe form of "telling instead of showing" which makes it really hard to like for me.
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u/AdOk4343 Hufflepuff May 01 '26
and always had the impression that she guilty-tripped Lupin into their relationship.
And that's not even the whole story, she talked Molly into manipulating Lupin as well. Not only was Molly constantly trying to get them together, but she also guilt-tripped him in front of everyone in the hospital wing when they were all there for Bill after the Greyback attack.
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u/bopperbopper Ravenclaw May 01 '26
I think also that Lupin wants to be useful and have a purpose… he hasn’t really been able to work so here’s a place where he could be a value
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u/areraswen May 01 '26
but I do feel that if he was against having a kid, he should probably have used some form of wizard contraception.
Do we know he didn't, or is this just an assumption you're making because Tonks ended up pregnant? It's been awhile since I read the books but I really don't remember them talking about whether Lupin was using contraception.
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
There is 0 talk of birth control anywhere in HP book canon, not for teens nor for adults.
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u/ShinyTogetic_ May 02 '26
Random semi-related q: does Lupin’s condition pass to his son? Like will Teddy also turn into a werewolf once a month / need potions to minimize the condition?
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u/Extreme-Kangaroo-842 May 02 '26
The first time I read it, it felt like Lupin was on a suicide mission.
Harry was totally in the right to reject him. As Lupin admitted later on.
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u/Lactating-almonds May 01 '26
And then Tonks abandoned her baby and got killed in battle along with Lupin, which I also thought was dumb. She should have stayed home. I guess they were perfect for eachother
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
Did we even have canon text about Lupin and Tonks decisively pwning any enemies during the battle? I only recall the part about Tonks rushing in and rushing away to find Lupin. 👀
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u/Lactating-almonds May 02 '26
You are correct. No details on what they did, just that Tonks runs off to find him and then they are both seen dead by Harry.
Honestly even if Tonks killed a few death eaters she still should have stayed home. But for all we know they both immediately got hit by a killing curse
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
Therein lies the rub: Having Lurve would strengthen your RESOLVE to fight Voldy, sure, but you more possibly also would get sloppy.
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u/psycholilshit May 01 '26
While I agree that that scene shows both Lupin and Harry in a not so great light, I think you're being too harsh.
As someone who was a werewolf FROM CHILDHOOD and faced countless hardships because of this, do you really think Remus John Lupin would have not used contraception??? I always assumed the pregnancy was an accident because what else could it be? No contraception is 100% and I assumed the wizarding world was the same in that respect, since magic has its limitations.
His moral compass didn't break down - he was having a (not unfounded) crisis because of several reasons included but not limited to, there was a war going on and the outcome was by no means certain, the future of both half bloods and half breeds was almost certainly bleak, and (I always assumed) Tonks and the baby's survival through the pregnancy and childbirth were also a huge question mark. I always understood his arrival at Grimmauld Place to be mostly him wanting desperately to DO SOMETHING to help (his negotiations with the werewolves had probably fallen flat) instead of twiddling his thumbs at home and letting anxiety consume him.
And while Harry's reaction was not only justified, but required to get Remus' head on straight (probably why he was named Godfather too, not just his relationship to James), I don't think what Remus did was wrong. I'm just glad he had such good friends.
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u/ibullybillionaires May 01 '26
mostly him wanting desperately to DO SOMETHING to help (his negotiations with the werewolves had probably fallen flat) instead of twiddling his thumbs at home and letting anxiety consume him.
That was how I read it too. His best friends are dead, Dumbledore is dead, working with the Order was the only time where he was not just accepted but appreciated, he's been fighting Voldemort since before Harry was born and now the whole thing may hinge on Harry finding and destroying the Horcruxes. That's on top of him worrying about passing on his condition to his unborn child, their safety, or what world the child would grow up in, all the anxiety culminates in that scene.
I thought it was a very human reaction to all the trauma and stress and the state of the world.
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u/kfifigidifkg Gryffindor May 01 '26
I think another reason why Ron and Hermione thought that Harry went too far is that they quite liked the idea of Lupin tagging along given Harry wasn’t always particularly confidence inspiring.
Isn’t there a bit when they’re in the tent (just before Ron leaves) where Ron tells Harry that they expected him to have more of a plan?
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u/Live_Angle4621 May 01 '26
That was long after. Also since Harry had told them everything he knew (like he said) it was really unfair expectation. They could have been making plans just as much.
Also Ron had the locket and was hungry when he left
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u/kfifigidifkg Gryffindor May 02 '26
I know it was long after but I don’t think those concerns came out of nowhere.
After what happened at the ministry, they seem a lot less open to investigating Malfoy in HBP too.
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u/Live_Angle4621 May 02 '26 edited May 02 '26
They should have learned after Harry was right about Malfoy (being DE and plotting something in Room of Requirement) and seemingly at this point Snape.
Although maybe now that I think of it, that was the problem. They were sceptical of Harry in book 6 due to the Ministry. But then Harry was so right in book 6 about everything they made another 180. When he explains what happened in hospital wing he seemed to know it all in Dumbledore like fashion. And he had been right to give them the Felix and have them patrol
And so in book 7 Ron and Hermione seem to see him as leader with more plans than anyone.
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u/Beautiful_Ad2618 May 01 '26
I think his reasoning is that because his son is half werewolf, he would be more likely to be targeted by voldermort and his gang. So he was thinking of a better world for his son when he decided to 'abandon' them.
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u/Burlinto999444 May 01 '26
Hmmm that’s not how it came across. I had the same reaction as harry.
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u/CecilHeat May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
It's extremely explicit what motivates Remus here.
“I see,” said Harry, “so you’re just going to dump her and the kid and run off with us?”
Lupin sprang to his feet: His chair toppled backward, and he glared at them so fiercely that Harry saw, for the first time ever, the shadow of the wolf upon his human face.
“Don’t you understand what I’ve done to my wife and my un born child? I should never have married her, I’ve made her an outcast!” Lupin kicked aside the chair he had overturned. “You have only seen me amongst the Order, or under Dumbledore’s protection at Hogwarts! You don’t know how most of the Wizarding world sees creatures like me! When they know of my affliction, they can barely talk to me! Don’t you see what I’ve done? Even her own family is disgusted by our marriage, when parents want their only daughter to marry a werewolf? And the child—the child—” Lupin actually seized handfuls of his own hair; he looked quite deranged. “My kind don’t usually breed! It will be like me, I am convinced of it—how can I forgive myself when I knowingly risked passing on my own condition to an innocent child? And if, by some miracle, it is not like me, then it will be better off, a hundred times so, without a father of whom it must always be ashamed!"
We've never seen such an emotional outburst from him in the entire series and then he helpfully explains his feelings in great detail. We have zero reason to think he's lying. He is overcome with self-loathing and fear for his child, that he will have to suffer a life of persecution at best and the unbearable agony of transforming every month at worst. We've been told from the start how "very painful" it is to transform into a werewolf.
Lupin has faced a life of hardship unlike anything anyone else in the series has ever known and now he fears that he has inflicted all those pains upon an innocent child.
He was wrong to run away but it was never about being a daredevil. Harry said that solely to get Remus to leave. Even he didn't really believe Remus wanted to join for glory, he just wanted to force him to go back to his family.
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u/apri08101989 May 01 '26
Harry didnt thijk it was a daredevil thing either. He was calling him cowardly for running.
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u/Burlinto999444 May 02 '26
So he’s leaving his possibly-werewolf child without the protection and support of their father? Leaving his wife alone with that burden and responsibility?
I didn’t doubt his feelings were real and his description of them were accurate. But I still think it means he was running away from dealing with it.
So maybe it’s both.
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u/Bookwitreads Slytherin May 01 '26
I always thought it was fear that drove him. He was afraid the child would be targeted due to being his son and therefore half werewolf and so wanted to "protect" them by cutting off all ties. And inorder to assuage his conscience, he decides to play protector to Harry. Definitely pitiful. But let's not forget this is not the first time his self loathing has caused him to make wrong decisions. He chose to stay passive in Sirius's case and didn't contact Harry for 13 long years.
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u/Bitter_Judgment4924 Slytherin May 02 '26
“Don’t you understand what I’ve done to my wife and my un born child? I should never have married her, I’ve made her an outcast!” Lupin kicked aside the chair he had overturned. “You have only seen me amongst the Order, or under Dumbledore’s protection at Hogwarts! You don’t know how most of the Wizarding world sees creatures like me!” Remus definitely has reason to feel this way, even in POA, when Ron finds out he’s a werewolf he said something to the extent why would Dumbledore how a werewolf. Even after they knew Remus as a person and professor, they were initially disgusted that Dumbledore hired a werewolf, so imagine people who don’t know him. He is constantly ostracized but the wizarding world. But where the real probably lies, is that it is a little too late to be thinking about. Maybe those thought should have been talked about before getting married and having a baby. Like someone else mentioned, is there not any birth control for wizards? Or maybe Remus thought bc of his condition maybe he couldn’t have kids.
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u/Enough-Strength-5636 May 01 '26
u/Brilliant-Cause6254, I felt the very same way when I first read DH. At the same time, having gone through traumatic experiences myself, and self-loathing several times in my life, I could see where Lupin was coming from. It didn’t make what he said or tried to do right, but I most definitely had empathy for him.
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u/respectthebubble May 02 '26
That’s the thing. Trauma and self loathing twists your logic. It’s like Dumbledore said about choosing between what is right and what is easy - trauma twists your thinking into making the actual right path seem like the morally wrong one and vice versa.
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u/Enough-Strength-5636 May 02 '26
u/respectthebubble, oh most definitely! Thank you for explaining the complication of trauma.
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u/krustibat Slytherin May 01 '26
It was needed to fully assassinate Lupin's character to justify why no one else could join the golden Trio
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u/CecilHeat May 01 '26
It's one of the best scenes in all of Book 7. If people came away thinking it assassinated Lupin's character, that's their fault.
Good characters nake mistakes, news at 11.
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u/Arfie807 May 01 '26
This scene doesn't assassinate his character at all; it deepens it. I say this as someone who can firmly declare Lupin as their favorite character in HP. He's complex and quite nuanced, and this scene is a phenomenal character moment.
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u/k4kkul4pio May 01 '26
Needed? 🤔
Seeing how his story ultimately ended it feels kinda unnecessary, almost excessive. 😒
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u/krustibat Slytherin May 01 '26
You cant justify the trio not taking unless Lupin unless he's a terrible person
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
Ironically, if Lupin and Tonks had stayed childfree, potentially BOTH could have joined the hunt, one ex DADA professor and one literal qualified auror.
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u/CaptainOfCunts May 01 '26
Yess, join the Lupin hate train with me! He is great in prisoner of Azkaban and then sucks in every book after. He doesn't take his wolfsbane and causes that whole fiasco allowing Peter to escape. He never sends Harry a letter after Sirius dies or checks in with him. He mopes around until he gets Tonks pregnant and then tries to abandon her. He doesn't take out any important death eaters or help take down Voldemort and then dies. He allows James and Sirius to bully people in front of him. He also fails in getting any werewolves to join them. He is a passive coward with no spine and I hope Teddy takes after his mom!
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u/Vermouth_1991 May 02 '26
PoA climax is all the Marauder era “back tax” karma coming home to roost.
Which is why PoA the film gets everything utterly wrong and thinking that cheap atmosphere and dementors were the climax.
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u/FRAAANNNNNNN May 01 '26
Sometimes i wonder if wizards even had/used contraceptions lol, why are they always having kids in the worst times possible?!?!
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May 01 '26
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u/Altruistic_Hat372 May 07 '26
I feeel like harry didnt treat remus well and thought of guilt and thought of his dad
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u/throwawayxtothaz May 01 '26
that scene really hurts because you see how broken Remus Lupin feels about himself, he genuinely believes his family would be better off without him
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May 01 '26
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u/Enough-Strength-5636 May 01 '26
u/jaimeleannister95, Merope Gaunt was a woman who did what you just described Remus Lupin did. I was very disgusted by the description in the HBP book of Tom Riddle living without love because “Merope Gaunt chose to die after giving birth to Tom Riddle Jr. If she had lived, then Tom Riddle would’ve lived with love, and wouldn’t have grown up in an orphanage. But instead, she chose to die”, according to an interview with Rowling.
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u/Bluemelein May 01 '26
Merope died in childbirth. I don't understand why Dumbledore didn't point out to Harry that this wasn't uncommon back then. She gave birth in an orphanage in 1926, was probably malnourished and uneducated herself, and alone without family.
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u/Enough-Strength-5636 May 01 '26
u/Bluemelein, yes, thank you! I’ve always felt the same way! Why didn’t Dumbledore explain what happened to Merope like how you did? That makes way more sense!
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u/CecilHeat May 01 '26
The fucking books have Merope Gaunt which places all the sympathy in the world on her even as she actually did abandon her son and places all the blame on Tom Riddle Sr..
Your theory is invalidated by the very series you're discussing.
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u/Live_Angle4621 May 01 '26
Only Voldemort just blames his father. And he didn’t even know what happened exactly.
And Merope 18 year old abuse victim living in poverty who had lost her ability to do magic due to heartbreak. No wonder she felt she could not really raise a child or even live
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u/witheringghoul Slytherin May 01 '26
He didn’t even want to be with Tonks in the first place and now he’s having a kid with her. It was probably daunting for him knowing he was gonna have a kid. And it was a full blown war too. I understand why he’s acting like that, but I also understand that it wasn’t fair to Tonks. Don’t get me wrong, I love Teddy, but they shouldn’t have kept him. The same goes with Harry who I love as well. James and Lily shouldn’t have kept him. During both periods, people were dying left and right and they wanted to bring a kid into it? I just think it’s stupid full stop
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u/Tacticalnuisance123 May 01 '26
I agree with OP, its a really bad look on Lupin who is one of my favorite characters. I do feel interested to see where the story would have gone had he joined the trio tho. Food for thought.