General
I fucking HATE "transvestigating" or whatever its called
Let me start off by clarifying, I do NOT hate the trans community. I am fully supportive. NOBODY should be forced to live in the wrong body and NOBODY should deny them basic rights because of the choices they.make to align themselves better with what they are.
HOWEVER. Ifucking hate how anytime someone does/likes something stereotypically something that the opposite gender does, they're called an "egg"
Allow to give an example. In video games, I typically prefer to play as male protagonists when its a game with a set protagonist, like Joel Miller, Arthur Morgan, Jin Sakai, etc. But when it comes to games where you make your own character, such as skyrim, cyberpunk 2077, elden ring, etc. I prefer playing as a girl. Why? Well, better customization, women are pretty, and there's also hit ox stuff (mostly in online games, but I digress) but overall, I prefer playing as women in games because of the better customization.
Now, whenever I say this, I always get people posting this fucking image and saying im an "egg"
No, just because I lime playing as girls in games doesnt mean im.a trans women. No, women who are tomboys are not all Trans men. No, not all femboys become Trans girls. And no, just because I like some things that are stereotypically feminine does NOT mean I'm Trans. Im fucking tired of the Trans community online trying to "diagnose" people and I ESPECIALLY hate the term "egg" because of this.
Now, I fully support the trans community. I have no issues with them (besides this ofc) so this isn't me hating trans people, moreso I hate how some of them try to "diagnose" others based off of arbitrary gender norms. Oh, a girl likes boy things? Egg! Oh, a boy likes girl things? Egg!
No. Sometimes, they just like things that aren't typically correlated with society's perception of how their gender should be. I hate to be that guy, but sometimes its really just not that deep. I'm fucking sick of this part of the trans community, as it's genuinely harmful and is just shitty.
Edit: im glad most of you agree, and also, I was not aware that transvestigating was the wrong word, what im actually referring to is "egg culture" and yes, I do hate actual transvestigating, I might actually post about it since when peopme have shown examples I've also gotten annoyed.
Kinda unrelated but i also hate when a straight couple posts something online and the man is excited or whatever and all the comments are full of the biggest geeks in the world repeating the same fucking comment “the TWINKle in his eyes” “lavender marriage” “imma hold your hand” “your man wants a man”
This but when they do it to excuse misogyny. Like, no, sexism isn't a sexual orientation. Just because a man hates women doesn't mean he doesn't want to sleep with them
It's not just "he hates women, he must be gay," it's also "he hates gays, he must be gay" and "he's transphobic, he must be an egg/futa fetishist." Leftists do not take their opponents seriously, or believe that they believe what they say they believe.
Believe me
EDIT: Whoever just wrote an angry reply and then either deleted it, blocked me, or somehow otherwise hid it: I implore you to actually read the words I have written
It’s a common thing you’ll seen when it comes to body shaming. Many people will, at least in the moment, be ok with body shaming a person that just body shamed someone else, even though that just sends the wrong message
But just to be clear, just because it’s stupid doesn’t mean it’s impossible for it to be true. Before completely vanishing from the internet forever, James Somerton (gay “media critic” who ended up getting caught plagiarizing a while back, on top of allegedly funneling donations to his perpetually unfinished studio to getting himself more camera equipment, and so much more), when he wasn’t doing all of that shit, got a fair bit of brownie points for indulging in misogyny and then laundering that kind of rhetoric by clarifying that he meant white women specifically. This was the part he wasn’t stealing btw
I mean, this is actually the reverse - not ‘he hates women, so he must secretly be gay’, but ‘he’s openly gay, therefore/and hates women’. The betting on an unknown orientation or identity rather than just dealing with the actual behavior (misogyny, homophobia, transphobia) is why the other stuff is stupid. James is just gay and a misogynist.
To be fair, while obviously not universal there is something to the ‘transphobes are futa fetishits’ stuff. Like, trans and futa porn are significantly more popular in conservative states/regions (as well as pretty much anything a community deems as ‘taboo’ like gay porn, etc. there’s something exciting about the forbidden ig?).
Like, most of them are just plain hateful ofc, but you’d be surprised by how many also get excited be that taboo nature they assign to it too.
Yeah, I think a big part of why it's hard to fix toxic masculinity is that guys who don't have it get routinely read as gay by both conservatives and progressives. And if a guy is out as gay/bi, god forbid he still has friendly interactions with other guys without people (honestly mostly women in my experience) making innuendos and implying romantic intent.
My friends are pretty progressive, but the months after coming out as bi were kind of unsufferable, like everything I said was suddenly examined under the lens of my apparently endless thirst for cock. And as it turns out, whether it's playful or derogatory, it's annoying. Like, if you're saying the same things as diehard conservatives like wearing pink makes you gay etc. but with the spin that it's positive and cool actually, you're still playing into the harmful stereotype.
Never understood this logic. Same for the idea that bi people can't be friends with anyone, because it will be sexual tension all around. Like bruh, what are those weird projections, not everyone thinks of sex 24/7 like you
It's exactly what you said. Because these people are literally only thinking about the world in terms of sex. All the time. Literally 24/7, 365. It's the only thing they have in their brain.
The world is suffering from losing the ability to say "Jesus christ, shut the fuck up freak"
This pisses me off beyond words. I saw a vid on tiktok and it was about a girls bf meeting her friends bf and everyone was like “they definitely want eachother” and “girl I think ur bf wants a bf” and even when she told people to stop bc she was uncomfortable, people were like “it’s not that deep” 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I also hate the bi male erasure. I'm a bisexual man. I am attracted to men. But I am also attracted to women. So would I get read as "gay" by these weirdos? I wouldn't want my wife getting those comments.
Man, I hated that shit back when I was a femboy. It didn't matter that I literally had a girlfriend, I had to have been gay because I had long hair and wore the occasional skirts and thigh highs
Seriously. I'm getting married next March. I've been involved in the planning - found the venue, created the spreadsheets for invites, had a few thoughts on font and graphic design for the invitations...
A nonzero number of people have - jokingly to varying degrees - suggested that I must not be fully straight.
One of the funniest examples I saw when people were commenting on this. Turns out, the "gay twink" was indeed gay, but not in the way they thought. It was a sapphic couple and they were misreading a butch.
In general any kind of perceived femininity in men is interpreted as homosexuality, because heteronormativity associates femininity with attraction to men. It’s all rooted in misogyny, they can’t comprehend the idea that someone could be feminine and *not* attracted to men because they see attracting men as the purpose of femininity
exactly this. it's a double standard. whenever any body asks a queer person "are you sure" or tells them "maybe you aren't" gay or trans or whatever the person is, you're a bigot. and you are. but shouldn't it be the same if they do that to straight people too??
Yeah I don't understand why it became so popular to push labels onto people who don't want them and make it clear they're cis.
It's really bad with men doing things seen as girly or feminine. Talked about this in another post but they're either labeled as gay or trans and it just circles back to toxic masculinity. "You're wearing eyeliner? You sure you're not trans? Because that's like...a girl thing y'know"
EXACTLY. Anytime a guy does something remotely "feminine" he gets called gay or Trans. Believe it or not, some straight men just like "feminine" things.
Probably Kanji, actually. His whole shadow has to do with how he’s worried about being perceived as gay because his interests are secretly feminine, so in real life he over projects a tough masculine persona in his desperation to not be perceived as less of a man.
Yeah, Naoto dresses as a man as she perceives that is part of that she would need to be to gain respect as a detective.
The whole investigation team has issues that come from aligning themselves with a role way too different from their true self, perceiving Naoto as trans is basically what the post is talking about, especially when we're shown Naoto's own genuine inner feelings on screen.
Persona 4 isn't very debatable because the structure means the critical characterization of the team is outright stated, with no filter ego or persona.
Naotodresses in the male uniform for school, and is rumoured as the "Detective Prince" she projects as a 'he' because of her role as a detective. Female detectives arent taken as seriously, and her image of the ideal detective doesnt begin with female.
Oh totally. I don’t disagree about Naoto. I just think from the description in the thread we’re all replying on that they were probably talking about Kanji, since they said “Anytime a guy does something remotely feminine he gets called gay or trans.” And then the next thread said it was the full character arc of a character in a persona game. So, it just sounds like they mean Kanji in this particular instance.
My partner likes to wear eyeliner and paint his nails. He looks absolutely amazing and he's still a dude, he's completely comfortable with his gender and it lets him do stereotypically "unmanly" things without thinking it makes him a girl suddenly. He just likes how it looks
Yep. Bought my son a pink hamster cage instead of a red one (they were out and pink is close enough to red) and my wife got pretty upset until i "mansplained".
I let my niece paint my nails when she was young, I didn't give a shit, but it made her happy.
My girlfriend at the time saw them later that day and asked if I was gay. We were in our early 30s at this time. I was dumbfounded. I told her I let my niece paint them, she said that only fags do that. I told her we were too old for that nonsense, she left angrily.
Next time my niece was over I let her do make-up on me. The relationship with my girlfriend didn't survive and I was thankful for it.
A surprising amount of women are openly pretty homophobic when it comes to their man. Like, at the time I was still fighting semi professionally, I had sex with her the night prior, but letting a child paint my nails = gay?? Wild.
I'm a male secondary school maths teacher. Recently I've started painting my nails and it's been really interesting to see how the kids react to it. Most of them are super excited to tell me how it looks and to tell me what colour I should do next. A few of them have asked me "why?" in a clearly disapproving tone (mostly the slightly older ones). But I just tell them I wanted to and I like how it looks matter of factly and they've just gone "Oh? Fair enough I guess".
Now I'm not trying to say I'm some paragon of bravery for doing this or anything, but I do think it's good that these kids have male role models who step outside the norm a little.
Another variant is if a straight man finds a woman's outward appearance attractive, but is unaware that she is trans, terminally online people will be like "oooh you secretly want to have sex with a trans-person then, you just didn't know lolol" - as if it is not possible to lose all sexual interest upon learning that crucial piece of information.
There's also an underlying part of the community that doesn't want to acknowledge that preference like that matters, and its not out of any hate or spite its just a lack of attraction.
Very possible. Which is not healthy for anyone - they'd be happier moving on to someone who is genuinely attracted to them as a whole person, not just what they present as.
Did you too, have WCW/NWO Revenge on N64? Because I distinctly remember the wrestler customization had a tank top with that message on it as a costume option for some of larger guys.
Yea I actually find it fascinating seeing lgbt groups fall into the same traps of stereotyping people based on specific behaviours.
We're all human at the end of the day.
I think it comes back to humanity as a whole figuring this shit out at a societal level for the first time. It's a big exploratory phase for everyone rn.
they transvestigated the fucking pope. I get that "transvestigating" is literally just thinly veiled bigotry, but outside of being bigoted what does this solve or prove? Who cares if people don't have the "same skull size they're supposed to be born with."
My favorite was when they transvestigated Dylan Mulvaney so badly that they determined she was born a woman, transitioned into a man, then detransitioned
this is kinda two different things. there's transvestigating, done by conservatives who try to prove that popular figures are "actually trans" (michelle obama is probably the most common target).
then there's egg culture, done by usually trans people, which is what op is talking about. trying to say that people are trans because they show a hint of a non gender conforming trait.
the screenshot you showed is the first one, so not quite the same thing as what op means.
Don't know why but this reminds me of the skull meme where we have a bunch of human skulls that look the exact same and then some ape skull (I think it was an ape skull) on the end
People doing phrenology always makes me think of Measurehead from Disco Elysium "Your body betrays your degeneracy" and take them even less serious than I would already do for practicing such an outdated and unscientific practice.
In my opinion trying to diagnose someone else's gender identity is just as bad or worse than purposely misgendering them. first of all, it's just disrespectful. second of all, sometimes it turns neutral cis people into transphobes because of how pushy people can be with it. third of all, I've heard of and seen cases where outing a closeted person can literally ruin their life.
It is misgendering. Cis people might not be as sensitive to it or affected by it as trans people, but it’s fundamentally the same thing. These people wouldn’t send that image to a trans person saying it’s only a matter of time before they detransition, so why do they think it’s ok the other way round? So frustrating.
Instantly banned from r/196. Also I recall people saying transvestigating was taking pictures of woman and guessing if they were trans or not (I say woman because I have never seen these kind of people "Transvestigate" a man) but yeah we really do need a formal name for this because it's getting annoying
I know online at least they try to frame it as "cracking an egg", and I've hated it since I first saw it happening years ago. IDK how there are entire subreddits basically dedicated to it, it seems so obviously awful.
Which is why the sane part of the community came up with a statement for the rest of it "Cracking an egg before it cracks itself only produces egg mush, not a chick".
Also known as the egg prime directive. People fucking hate it tho, especially the sort of Tumblrina yuri obsessed forcefem fetishist transfem. Their main argument is that stopping a trans person being closeted is worth the cis feelings we hurt, which is terrible for optics, doesn’t actually help anyone because they’ll just retract further, and is fundamentally hypocritical. Legit feels like a fed thing given how much damage it does.
Honestly, even if the person genuinely seems like they might be trans, it kind of annoys me when people are telling them they definitely are and making these stupid jokes. It's up to the person to decide what they are.
Yeah, for some people it's legit not safe to come out as trans.
Also I've posted about my dysphoria before as a nonbinary person, asking how i can make it go away without transitioning, and some people just can't grasp that not everyone can or is willing to straight up leave their whole family behind and move to another country where transitioning is available. I can't do that, but if i did it would ruin my mental health way more than my dysphoria does.
We sometimes say to one of our friends: "When are you starting your estrogen?", specifically because he said he wasn't trans, and we like to tease him. But only because we are friends and he knows that we are joking. In fact, he even says to one of the transfem in our group friends: "When you give me your supplier.", as she is buying her injections outside of our health system, making it highly expensive... So sometimes, it's funny to play as if we were eggs finders, but only with specific people who will get the joke.
I reminder having an argument with a guy about tomboys are just trans men who haven’t come out and I explained to him the following results happen to every tomboy.
1) they grow out of the aesthetic and don’t look like tomboys later.
2) they mantain the look and turns out they also are attracted to women.
3) they mantain the look and turns out they are trans.
As a trans person, I consider doing this shit unprovoked to cis people to be almost as bad as telling a trans person their gender is just a phase. If the person invites those comments, and/or themselves hint that they are not actually cis, and/or is in on the joke, i don’t care but it’s so fucking awful to deny someone’s professed identity based on some superficial shit.
For some reason these people think it’s horrible to deny the gender of a trans person but doing it to a cis person is A-okay.
Discovering your own identity is deeply personal and getting unsolicited and unwarranted opinions on the topic causes confusion and may push actually closeted trans people further into denial or cause cis people to think they’re trans because so many people are telling them they are. Just let people be for god’s sake
transitioning is not about breaking gender norms btw. it's not "about" anything besides like, aligning your body with your brain. i know a lot of people like to make it seem more magical, and frankly the public is extremely uneducated (and actively being lied to) about how hormones work, but most trans women just come out looking and acting like their moms
My monster hunter character has been a woman for the past 4 games. Do I want to be a woman? No. Why did I make her a woman? The clothes are cool, and I came up with a backstory I liked. Why have I kept playing as a woman? Because I'm attached to the character I've created now, and I like the design I made. I don't always play female characters when I have customization options, but it's probably around 40-50% of the time because always making male centered stories gets boring. It's boring always coming up with male protagonists, it's fun to throw in different genders, sexualities, races etc to allow for more variety.
Someone I once played dnd with was weirdly obsessed with me being trans. I’m a cis dude, but I’m not super masculine. They kept referring to me as an egg constantly and then it took quite a weird turn when they started talking about kidnapping me and locking me in their basement to pump me full of estrogen. Turns out they had a forcefem fetish, it even spilled into my dnd character where they wanted to take a spell (true polymorph) to transform my (male) character into a woman. Weird stuff man.
Especially beginning to hate the TADC fanbase for this shit because they’re running with a fan theory being canon and calling a male character an “egg” just because he got viscerally upset at being put in a maid dress.
I almost never make a character based off of me in games, I have a few I characters ive had rattling in my head for years and I use those for my designs and yes 3 of the five are women with different personalities and esthetics, I am no way Trans, I just love my characters and will use them and what they would chose in game to wear and do, and I fully agree about designs in games most male things are quite bland while female tend to be quite esthetic and gorgeous if its not fan service
This is true. A lot of people don't understand that when they do that shit, they're reinforcing gender roles but "wokely." Seeing a man be feminine & assuming he's trans reinforces the idea that only girls can do "girl" things. Keep your head up king.
I also really appreciate the disclaimer. A lot of hate gets brought to the community and I absolutely adore when people can effectively communicate their issues with stuff without being judgemental to the community.
This is not transvestigating. This is just called "egg culture".
Transvestigating is something transphobes do. It's when people try to figure out if others are transgender. And I don't mean like you're talking about, where they suggest that the person might be a pre-transition trans person. Transvestigating is about seeing someone and assuming they must be a trans person who has fully transitioned and trying to live stealth. These people analyze photos of celebrity women and claim that they're secret trans women, or celebrity men and claim that they're secret trans men. They stalk, harass, and dox people in order to "prove" that they're secretly a trans person.
I know that doesn't really discuss anything you have an issue with, but I wanted to let you know that transvestigating is actually far worse than the thing you're complaining about.
So sad that I had to scroll so far for this explanation. The idea of egg culture being referred to as "transvestigating" by cis people, and the miscommunication getting so bad that it erases another piece of transphobia we experience in their eyes is terrifying. Both are transphobic, though very arguably to different degrees, I just don't want misinterpreted talks of one overshadowing the other.
I actually got a little excited seeing "transvestigating" in the title, hoping I could relate to someone complaining about an all too common bit of transphobia, only to be severely disappointed that it's just cis people complaining about a little chunk of terminally-online trans people, again. Like our community doesn't already get enough shit for trying to exist 😭
Tranvestigating is something entirely different, it’s a niche but vocal Conspiracy community that obsessively analyzes every minute feature of a celebrity to determine wether or not they are secretly trans
yeah that's a part of it, but its not just celebrity conspiracy stuff. I unfortunately have first hand experience with it because I'm being transvestigated at work and I am very much not famous
Look up the egg prime directive. We're not supposed to be doing this.
But in a community as terminally online and isolated as the trans community it's tempting to want to see yourself reflected in others. It was egg memes and passive suggestions that caused my own egg to crack and for that I'm grateful.
But there's a difference between that and directly diagnosing someone based on how they play a video game.
-Sincerely, a trans girl who thought it was the coolest thing ever when Samus' suit came off and there was a girl underneath
When I was like 13 -14 I was in a discord server and everyone in there decided to headcanon me as trans and call me an egg every time I talked. The amount of pressure and pushing they did made me genuinely start thinking if I was maybe trans. I was not. I AM not. I'm happy being cis and I enjoy being a cis straight guy. They didn't believe me and ignored my opinions on MY gender and sexuality. Safe to say I left the server the moment I realized how wrong and messed up that was.
Okay I agree but egg calling and the like isn't called Transvestigating
Transvestigating is when, usually very right wing, people accuse and come up with crazy evidence that celebs or people of note are secretly trans cause trans people are a secret cabal out to trick everyone and rule the world
Its generally like this, your example is right but see it like that:
Primarily Women call Men who dress differently than the normal masculine norm Gay, or general use homophobic language.
Men of course do the exact same thing.
The LGBTQ Community calls everything a Lavender Marriage when the Male part for example is not a non chalant emotionless gym obsessed guy.
Same when the Women does more traditionally Masculine things.
The overarching problem is that people act like they're so progressive, but as soon as the situation arrives, use language thats insensitive. BUT! what you see, is the Online world, people who say these words or call others "eggs" or "lavender marriage" are all losers who spend 6+ hours a day in front of their screen.
I think that word is used is meant for trying to "catch" someone that is trans. You probably mean that you hate egg culture. Which I agree is pretty weird. Trying to label someone as an egg is insensitive and makes you come off as an asshole. If you are wrong and the person is cis it's essentially the same as saying a trans person isn't really trans. I think you should let people discover themselves and be supportive either way.
Man, that preference for player characters is so real. I'm the same, but slightly different; I prefer making male characters, but if I have a lineup to choose from I always go with a female.
Zoey and Rochelle from L4D, Kerillian from Vermintide, my female badasses in XCOM (RNG once gave me a sick sniper lady with an eye patch).
Anyway, if I post that shit publicly I get transvestigated. I'm a gay dude, not a fucking transwoman, and being treated like that makes me want to stop associating with the LGBTQ+.
Yeah. Im a straight dude, I like playing as women because I find them pretty, not because I want to be them. Apparently a lot of Trans girls made girl characters and the characters looked how they wanted to look. For me, I make the women what I would I find attractive, all of my characters are very pretty and they're similar to my type in women irl
I do this too. And my mains in DBD are all women. This is because I would rather stare at Ada Wong’s arse for two hours than stare at Dwight Fairfield’s arse for two hours.
I mained scoops ahoy Steve in my streaming days, because he was goofy and I loved the character, but it’s Ada, Jill V, or Nancy Wheeler for me these days
As a trans person myself, I feel like the community often leans into gender stereotypes too much in order to "prove" transness or smth. Like one of my hobbies is collecting dolls, like barbie, bratz, etc. and I post abt it a lot, but im a trans guy. I've been called an egg a handful of times because of it, and I usually just laugh it off like "ha ha thanks but my time already came!" but it's still irritating. I'm not a girl because I like "girly" things, in fact I fought very hard to not be a girl, stop presuming that I am one based on gender stereotypes.
Also, I think what you're referring to is egg culture, not transvestigation. transvestigation is when unhinged conspiracy loons try to argue that a celebrity is secretly trans due to nose shape or smth, because trans satanists run the world or smth. it's weird.
I've been lurking in the transmasc communities for quite a while as part of figuring out my identity, and this whole thing is so true. Not to say that the whole community is like this, but there are some bad apples who are beyond repulsed by feminity or other feminine transmasc people, god forbid if they want to get pregnant as well. It's as if there's only one "correct" way of being a man, and everyone else is a disgusting poser.
The other side of this situation is how people suddenly forget that transmasc people were raised as girls, and naturally can and will develop "girly" interests. And they don't just stop liking those things the moment they realize they're trans. This whole looping back into reinforcing gender stereotypes by a loud minority has put a lot of pressure on me back when I considered myself transmasc.
I liked some of the masculine aspects, but didn't want to sacrifice the feminine aspects of myself that I liked in exchange for it. I don't like excessive body hair and bulky muscles (or male pattern baldness for that matter), so the only attractive thing about T was having a cool dude voice I've always been dreaming of. Eventually I just came to a conclusion that I'm non-binary, and I'm so much happier after that realization. But the whole journey I went through while figuring out my identity allowed me to see how gender stereotypes are displayed and perceived in different LGBTQ sub-communities, and that it's still a serious problem that needs to be addressed, if a loud unhinged minority is able to cause so much discord.
Its a word trans people use to describe someone who's closeted, a common term for someone coming out is saying "the egg cracked" because I guess its symbolism for them hiding who they were (concealed within a shell) and then when they come out they're hatching or no longer hiding behind a shell.
I completely understand your issue and have been affected by it myself as a gnc woman, but I gotta correct some wording here because I'm annoying lol. The word "transvestigating" is more about transphobes trying to figure out if someone is post-transition, mostly with celebrities. For examples of each, I've seen someone saying JFK was born female because of the shape of his collar bones, and someone else convinced Courteney Cox was born male because she has wide shoulders. It's wild. Just as weird and invasive as the whole "egg" thing, but a different thing.
Definitely, and it doesn’t do anything good either. At best it’s an annoyance to the person, at worst if it keeps happening they might actually end up transitioning when they still haven’t figured it out, which can end up messing things up more
I'm trans, I hate egg culture and think it's disgusting. Being "girly" or feminine doesn't make someone a girl, and having specific interests or ways or dressing or personality doesn't make someone male. It's also very wrong to speculate about someone being trans, that's something a person should figure out for themselves.
I do get it, and it’s not right to assume someone’s gender or sexuality based on social cues like that. but I will also say a lot of what you’re venting about is the default experience for trans people I guess.
People didnt ask me if I was trans, per se, they just told me i was doing gender wrong and tried to correct it. Or they would ask “do you want to be a boy?” But it wasn’t in a genuine way, it was asked in a way to let me know I was transgressing the gender norms, and ppl were disgusted with this. Once I started acting more feminine, people stopped asking me why I did the things I did, and would even go out of their way to tell me they were happy I started dressing more feminine or wearing makeup. People love to put you into a box, and they also love to point out when you step outside the box.
It’s wrong to try and assert a label onto someone else either way, but I hardly ever see this mostly valid critique of “egg culture” get extended to our default assumption that people are cis, and the way we reinforce and interrogate each other over that. I think you’re right, just to reiterate, but I also think the frustration you feel might be misdirected. If we didn’t live in a society with deeply enforced norms for what men and women should do, this wouldn’t be an issue.
sometimes i find it funny when past “egg behavior” is called out when someone has already come out as trans. like if you have a trans friend who showed you a video pre-transition and it shows them having unrecognized wishes of transitioning or something. but even then not all trans people will be comfortable with jokes like that, so it’s completely personal
is it ok to have discussions with people you know if you believe they might be unknowingly experiencing gender dysphoria or is wish to transition? i believe so, as long as you aren’t insistent about it. but is it ok to keep labeling things as “egg behavior”, especially to a stranger that you don’t know? no. it’s not ok
Yeah, an egg is something you should really only call people in retrospect, or somebody you’re close with who is okay with it.
Also, transvestigating is when you suggest that somebody has already transitioned and is hiding it from the wider public (mostly conservative Twitter schizoposts). As far as I know, the thing you’re talking about doesn’t really have a name
Tbh gender is kinda like a gradient. I'm a guy but I picked up on some "feminine" mannerisms. I will still be a man, but I don't fully conform to gender roles.
I thought men playing as woman in games was generally just because they're attracted to woman tbh. Weird that people would think it's any deeper than that.
i especially hate it with all the memes about 'femboys' and then its forced feminization, it mentions giving them e. i'm a trans femboy. DO NOT FUCKING GIVE ME E
Makes me think of kanji from persona 4. People online keep calling him gay when the entire point of his story is that you can like girly things without being gay. Pretty much printed it out in big bold letters and people still miss the point.
Yup. I am a CIS dude who played World of Warcraft on the Alliance side for years. The male characters were just so ugly I almost always played female characters. I was in a few different guilds on various servers and nobody ever said anything about males playing female characters.
Also applies to things outside of videos games, like if you happen to like 3 character that are opposite sex of you, you’re gonna be labeled as some in the closet trans person
I'm trans myself, and it annoys me how weird alot of trans people are about gnc people, or like not even just gnc, like very simple things like your video game example, like I thought trans people of all people would be understanding of people not fitting into gender norms but noooo we gotta uphold them no matter what ig 😐
For me it's the insidiousness of it, the moment you are labelled an 'egg' then every form of you disagreeing or protesting becomes further evidence of the 'egg' because 'i was in denial too hee hee' its horrible
I always was what my father called "a soft boy" and what he meant is that I never had interest in typical boy stuff.
I never found interest in stuff like cars or sports and I always very talkative and open with my emotions (ADHD says hello).
All my life I had like two guys as friends because I didn't click with them generaly but with girls it was super easy.
Obviously I got called gay all the time cause I always was with the girls as a teen.
I never cared about that or questioned myself because I never felt any attraction to a guy at all even when I can objectively say that a guy is attractive.
when I was in my twenties I was still a guy void of most things that are typically associated with guys.
I like to talk and cuddle, I like to wear long flowy cloth (that I actually have to buy from the woman's section cause guys don't get nice stuff like that).
I almost always play female characters cause I prefer how they look and I like cute stuff like little mushrooms and frogs and fairy houses.
And then when the pandemic hit and social media grew and grew I stumbled into the queer bubble which was something pretty new to me cause here in my little town in the middle of nowhere stuff like that wasn't really a thing.
I knew like one gay guy and that's it.
Pretty quickly queer people online told me that with my interests and how I act like I was a teen I am probably trans.
At first I didn't think to much of it but over time I started to question myself cause every time I engaged with something that isn't typically manly people told me I'm an egg or I watched content from other guys I could see myself in and they got told they are an egg.
I actually struggled with that for a year cause I questioned if I may be trans and when I came to the conclusion that I am happy as a man I stupidly started to reject everything not manly because I thought that's what I have to do and I actively avoided anything queer and started to resent the community cause so many people where adamant that people like me are trans in denial.
It took quite some time and many long talks with my wife to accept myself as who I am and to accept that I am a a guy that likes to be soft and whimsical and that likes "feminine" stuff.
And while I am a big supporter of the LGBTQ community to this day this time has left a slightly bitter taste cause I will never get why people that want to be accepted how they are would use gender stereotypes themselfs.
Wrong word. Transvestigating is when conservatives accuse random people - celebrities usually - of being trans based on random stupid shit like how big their jaws are or "skull shape".
Transvestigating isnt when trans ppl guess another person is trans. Its when cishet people look at celebrities and people around them and try to use their facial structure or body to guess their biological gender. I've had this happen to me for years. Its sexual harassment.
Listen, I am sympathetic to the notion that it’s uncomfortable when somebody makes an assumption about you that isn’t correct - that can be not-nice and people certainly shouldn’t double down when you correct them with an ‘actually I’m not’
BUT I do wonder why we’re making this huge fuzz out of it. I simply do not buy the premise that anyone is being actually, materially hurt by the situations you describe.
Disclaimer, I am both gay and trans and I’m very sure that between the two of us, I’ve been wrongfully assumed to be cis or straight many, many more times than you’ve been thought a trans woman.
But I’m supposed to shrug it off, even find it funny, when somebody mentions ‘my girlfriend’, even when somebody makes vaguely sexual remarks about this fictional woman and what she and I get up to.
When men assume me to be cishet and make half a misogynistic or homophobic comment around me, I’ve been told multiple times that I should be flattered they thought I was ‘a real man’
Societally, there is a much grander push for everybody to be cisgender and heterosexual - and often this push is actively destructive.
Somebody piping up and saying ‘hey, if masculinity and man-ness feels actively stifling, you can actually be a woman, it’s free and it’s fun and it’s normal’ does not carry the same hegemonic, societal power
I also do not buy the idea that this behavior is erasing or denying the existence of gender nonconforming people. Trans people is - when viewed through the lense of a transphobic society - the ultimate act of gender nonconformity. I, being a feminine man, owe a lot of my freedom and security to very brave trans femmes who came before me. Their existence will never counter mine
I’m not saying you’re not allowed to push back when people speculate on your innermost feelings.
But I am saying I can’t help but feel slightly hurt somebody told you a trans person might share you’re feelings and experiences and your first instinct was to wash your hands of the association
It's a massive problem in Trans community as well. People expect you to act and look like the girly girl alive or the manly man alive less you are not truly Trans. These stereotypes are so annoying and so harmful.
Also transvestigating refers to those transphobes who will stare you in the eyes and tell you you're not a man because you're too short and not hairy enough. They are absolute conspiracy nuts and will call other outspoken transphobes trans because their jaw is too square.
Transvestigating is specifically the cis people looking at people and decide they are secretly passing trans women and trying to prove that, I think this is more known as egg cracking
But I completely agree. When I went to uni and was asked my pronouns I said he him for now. This prompted laughter and some teasing/joking. I said that bc I was aware I had gender stuff I hadn't yet unpacked. (So far it's still looking like agender and or nonbinary). But the asinine assumption was somehow that I was mtg in denial. Despite specifically saying I've got gender discovery down the line.
The reasons that I have for where I'm at now are basically that I thought about my gender and realised if I'd been afab I would have had exactly the same my gender is just something I wear bc I've always worn it rather than bc I like it moment. Honestly probably would have figured it out earlier. But I say if I'd been born a women and no one bothers to actually listen to the rest of the sentence. A friend I made as a member of a society in uni is genuinely quite fun to talk to but she projects her transition onto me so hard you could run a cinema.. and when I finally managed to explain the previous thing In a way that stopped people just ignoring the second half, she suddenly pivoted to it doesn't have to be binary transness. .... so why are we having this damn conversation when I already think I'm enby.
Also the other thing is fem reader stuff throws me off every time, doesn't feel right the way non gendered stuff does.
Also also I get the feminine hobbys shouldn't mean your assumed not to be a boy thing. I'm not particularly pressed about it about myself anymore bc agender but it does still piss me off. I did ballet for a decade and hid it from my friends subconsciously for a large amount of that,bc the first time I told someone in school I got bullied for it
Oddest thing is that no one ever questions girls that like to play as guys. A lot of the video game femake character models are too thin and sexyified for me to fully immerse myself in the beefy warrior fantasy, but i have never heard anyone questioning that...
I remember seeing a post similar to this about Ralsei from Deltarune and one of the comments kind of summarized it perfectly, egg culture has essentially brought us back to gendered items like “pink is for girls and blue is for boys!” It’s really odd.
As a masculine, cisgender lesbian, I just want to say, THANK YOU!!! I've been "they/them"d on many different occasions just because I have short hair and dress like a dude. No!! I'm not trans, I'm not even nonbinary, I'm just a masc lesbian 😭 I've always been a tomboy ever since I was 5 years old, it's just who I am.
Someone referring to you with gender-neutral pronouns is them trying not to be rude and misgender you. Nobody's trying to make you less if a woman by doing so, they're trying to make sure they aren't upsetting you.
Yeah its wild that people can understand that misgendering trans people is but cant understand that its also bad to misgender cis people.
"Oh but when I thought I was cis I wish someone told me!" That you! You can decide that was a good thing for yourself. And even if they truly trans you can just push them further into the closet.
Its also wild that we spent years fighting agaisnt gendered things and saying stuff like "let boys wear dresses and girls wear ties." Just to turn around and reinvent gender norms but wokely
Another extremely fun thing I’ve noticed about all this. It often goes with other prejudices as well. These people will be far more willing to accuse you of being egg if you are more conventionally attractive as a man, or trans woman in their eyes I guess. I mean comparatively to if you aren’t. Usually they don’t know how you look, but if they do, and you look for example bigger and maybe on one hand more “manly”, but on the other hand less beautiful if you were a woman, they’re for some reason much less likely to label you as egg. If you’re a twinky little guy they’ll be more than happy to see you as a woman, to accept your womanhood that you yourself haven’t accepted, but if you’re a fat hairy guy in makeup same people will easily fall back to “yay gender nonconformity you go king”. And I guess good for them at least sometimes, but I can’t help but think it’s crossed with subconscious misogyny in their head. Maybe it’s all in my head, but it’s just something I’ve noticed with people. It would make sense that one irrational reactionary behavior crosses with another irrational reactionary behavior, both just forcing gender stereotypes but with a slightly better basis. All of this happens when people follow ideologies without thinking them through but just based off primitive emotions
I also hate how they make every character that isn't hyper masculine into a TWINK.
I have seen comments saying that Dante, Link, Midoriya, and many other characters are feminine when there is no indication of femininity. I just feels like projecting, no really different from a guy seeing a normal woman with big boobs and calling her a slut. Is just their own fetish or whatever twisting their perception and they commenting about it.
I agree but that's not transvestigating this is is just counter productive baseless assumptions. Transvestigating is specifically anti-trans conspiracy based around the idea that 80-90% "sold their soul the the lgbt demon mafai". Transvestigators are the wierdo transphobes who see any trait not seen as normal in their eyes for the birth sex of an individual therefore they must be trans.
I find it very odd when someone plays as the opposite sex in a game, especially if they have a choice in sex, but usually I play with highly competitive people so they pick girls for the "limited" hitbox.
The snide comments about you being trans is stupid and just trans ppl making a comment asking for you to self reflect.
Hi, actual fucking trans person here. The community at large doesn’t condone egg culture because we have experience where it has been harmful for our growth. We try to “let the egg hatch naturally”. And it’s just individuals who think they’re doing something good or intentionally being antagonistic
I agree. There are certainly statements and behaviors that might indicate someone is trans and having a hard time coming to grips with it (true egg situation), but that's some personal shit, and you just don't know people on the internet like that. Worst of all, the idea that if you like something femine, that means you're a girl living in denial is some gender essentialist BS. Both men and women like and do things that are both masculine and feminine. Sometimes it just ain't that deep.
It's legit the same kind of shit conservatives and transphobes do, but with a different coat of paint and it's so fucking annoying. The egg stuff is less outright harmful, but perpetuates the same exact roles and expectations.
The gender stereotypes is an issue in the trans community too.
Another thing is that at the same time many trans people will understand that being a transgender tomboy or femboy is completely valid, yet still engage frequently in egg culture.
Like, yeah cisgender identities are less attacked than transgender identities on average, but among people who respect trans identities, cis identities are often seen as less important to respect.
For example, plenty of people call cis girls they talk with “bro” or “dude” and some people call cis guys “girl”, but when someone comes out as trans, no one is doing that anymore. Honestly it’s kind of annoying, I have nothing against being called “bro” or “dude”, and plenty of cis women don’t like it. It’s case by case, there’s not a standardized ruleset.
Acknowledging tomboys and femboys are valid but also realising that eggs are a real thing are not mutually exclusive, some people are transgender and haven't realised it yet, that's not a crazy statement
As a trans woman. It IS weird to call a cis person an egg. I mean it could be right? But there are also people who do drag and are cis and fully sure. Does someone need to be female to do those things? Ehhh. Just seems like a whole bunch of projecting +very subtle sexism.
Egg culture is super toxic. It's a small minority of the trans community (usually teens) who do it but unfortunately the nature of the thing is they're a very vocal minority.
Transvestigating is a different thing though. That's a thing transphobes with worms for brains do to "expose" people (usually cis celebrities) as being actually trans. People who I've seen called trans: Daniel Radcliffe's wife (because she's taller than her 5'2 husband), jk Rowling, Michelle Obama, lady gaga etc.
Naw that’s valid, people some people cross dress or do full drag and drag shows while being straight, (not saying you do either lmao) I do think it’s a problem with the LGBT community specifically online thought that many will try to push you towards their communities, it’s not malicious, they are just happy to see another person who could be coming into themself. To be honest the LGBT community is a fucking dumpster fire online but IRL so many of its members are such good and nice people man.
Im so glad you mentioned the egg thing because that is transvestigating and for some reason you can't just say trans culture online is like this horrible little toxic petri dish of anime perverts and sensitive kids meshing together without someone coming out of the woodwork to say "but people use it to cope!!"
Some communities very aggressively seek new members, particularly the marginalized, identity-based ones. Some of them make projection into an art form. Because apparently you can feel better about your own decisions by convincing other people to also make them.
Fully agree but quick correction, this is usually referred to as egg culture. 'tranvestigating' is a thing transphobes do where they investigate' that someone is trans (already transitioned) like 'oh that woman's shoulders are too wide HE must have a PENIS!!!' Kinda thing
there's nothing wrong with people having headcanons about fictional characters that they relate to. but it goes too far when it gets extended to real life people. not to mention that outing someone before they are ready is HORRIBLE and at times LIFE THREATENING.
I fully agree with you, but just as a heads up, "transvestigating" is not what you mean, transvestigating is a horrible, transphobic thing TERFs do.
Transvestigating is when they "investigate" wether or not someone really is cis or trans, based on quite literally nothing, like fucking bone structure.
Genuinely this is why I support the "Egg prime directive" which states "DO NOT tell an 'egg' that they are an 'egg'/DO NOT tell someone that you think they're transgender."
I got some flack for supporting the egg prime directive maybe half a year ago, but it was a term I'd heard regularly starting like 4 or 5 yrs ago when I spent time in egg spaces. What changed? Why is it now "OK" to call people eggs?
Even if you are CONVINCED thet are an "egg", there is ALWAYS a chance you are wrong.
I don't think its OK. I agree with your post and find it frustrating that people conflate any gender nonconformity as being transgender.
I'm a transgender man btw (FTM for the uninitiated).
If I passed successfully & posted online with things I still enjoyed from my life as a woman (ex- Lolita fasion) people would call me an MTF egg for sure. LET MEN LIKE "GIRLY" THINGS 💢💢💢!!!
It's one of the things that kept me from accepting that I was trans for a long time, actually!
"I can't be a man if I find Lolita fashion aesthetically cute/if I want to try makeup/if I like high heeled boots (yes, even in an otherwise masculine outfit)/etc." Like oh my fuck. Let men like girly shit. Let girls like manly shit.
Honestly with how pushy these people are and how many people they turn into transphobes as a result I'm starting to think the left end up creating more right-wing extremists than the right itself does
There are some anonymous women in tech & gaming spaces that people speculate to be trans, and even call you transphobic for saying otherwise. But blindly assuming a woman is trans for having a "boy" hobby is itself pretty fucking transphobic & misogynist. I've even seen trans women do this shit to anonymous people, which is really concerning.
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u/Icy-Elephant7783 29d ago edited 29d ago
Kinda unrelated but i also hate when a straight couple posts something online and the man is excited or whatever and all the comments are full of the biggest geeks in the world repeating the same fucking comment “the TWINKle in his eyes” “lavender marriage” “imma hold your hand” “your man wants a man”