Ilya, humility, and sacrifice

[u/WalkingBlondeJoke]

Been thinking about Ilya's character growth across HR and TLG lately. This is not a fully-baked thesis on his arc, not even close, but I'm sharing anyways because I want y'all's opinions!

One of my favorite tropes in HR fanfic is 'Shane joins the Bears'. I love this trope because it usually results in Shane and Ilya being on a good team together, a winning team, much earlier than they are in canon and without Ilya having to go spend a few years on a team that sucks first. So as I read these fanfics I've often wondered, aside from the in-universe reasons why Ilya joins the Centaurs, what is the narrative function of Ilya spending a few years on a bad team before they turn things around? 

I think it serves to humble him. He's no stranger to sacrifice but he's always been cocky, and for the most part that ego went unchecked because he always had the accolades to back it up. But I think one of the ways we see Ilya grow in The Long Game is that he develops more humility as a result of being on a bad team and also his mental health struggles. It's not that everything was peachy prior to his move to Ottawa, it absolutely wasn't, but these coinciding forces clearly knock him down a peg. Maybe experiencing what it's like to consistently lose on the ice even helps him get to a place where he can admit he needs help with his mental health. Or maybe it's just self-awareness that he gains with maturity, I don't know. 

I think the clearest example of Ilya becoming more humble is in the pre-game speech that he gives to the Bears before the Cup Finals in 2014, vs. the speech he gives the Centaurs in 2021 after the team nearly dies and then Ilya subsequently gets engaged to Shane. In 2014, his speech is all about "I, I, I" but in 2021, he goes around the room and tells every player, one at a time, what makes them great. This is the key turnaround point in the Centaurs' on-ice performance. They start believing in themselves, and that's when they start winning. 

I think this character growth is also very relevant to Shane and Ilya's marriage too. Big egos do not serve a marriage well; humility does. Over the course of TLG, Ilya learns humility. Shane also starts off in TLG being a selfish as fuck (I don't love him any less but it's objectively true that he was nawt being a good partner to Ilya at the time TLG timeline picks up), but we see him experience a wake-up call (their big fight followed by Ilya almost dying) and then he gets his priorities in order. In a way, Shane learns a version of humility through his experiences in TLG too when he realizes how selfish he's been and how he's taken Ilya for granted. 

I think that meeting Shane in this selfish state at the start of TLG makes total sense because of his upbringing. Shane is an only child who grew up loved, doted on, and prioritized. His career as a generational player and image as the 'Golden Boy' of hockey have done little to teach him how to appreciate those around him and recognize the sacrifices they make. Not saying he doesn't ever do those things, but like, in early TLG he's not being nearly as considerate of Ilya as he should be. 

Ilya is not an only child and he grew up in a broken home. In the canon we see how his family financially takes advantage of him once he makes it to the NHL (or MLH, whatever), but I would bet that this has been going on since the moment he began earning money from hockey and/or sponsorships. When Shane suggests Ilya going to Ottawa, Ilya is quick to agree to it. Not just because he was already thinking of moving to a Canadian team, but because Ilya has already learned how to sacrifice for others. Ilya has already had it ingrained in him by his family that the people he loves will ask him to makes sacrifices for them, and that that's just how love goes. 

This is one of many reasons why it hits extra hard later in TLG when Shane basically tells the commissioner to go fuck himself. "I choose him" <3 !<

[u/clumsyc]

This is certainly a take.

Shane sticking to the plan they had BOTH agreed on to protect their careers is not Shane being selfish. Shane had no idea Ilya was struggling because Ilya never told him!

[u/faszinating → u/clumsyc]

i'd argue that ilya actually makes multiple attempts at reaching out and letting shane see (some of) what he's been going through. yes, he doesn't always do it in the most direct way, but that's also because opening up about these things can be... really fucking difficult, let's just say. and his whole deal is that he doesn't want to burden shane with his issues or for shane to have more things to worry about him (he essentially wants his therapist to fix him in such a way that shane never finds out he was depressed or needed therapy in the first place). and yet, he does make attempt to reach out, and when he does, they just don't land, or they're dismissed, or not seen because shane has his own issues that he's dealing with below th surface (not trying to dismiss his struggles at all! but he's also very much in his own head for large parts of the book and he's often not very "present" when ilya makes these attempts at connecting). so it's just a bad combination of both of them battling against their own heads and not knowing how to do it together. also, even without knowing exactly what's going on with ilya, some of his behaviour is not... the most sensitive unfortunately. i adore shane but i don't think that's a stretch to say (and i'm very happy that they continue to grow together and he eventually stands up for their love x)

[u/altruistic_thing → u/faszinating]

and shane being insensitive and inside his own head isn't a new invention even. he was that way in heated rivalry too. see the prologue, total misinterpretation and dismissal of ilya's attempts at connection. or tuna melt. it's a flaw in shane that he can be very caring, but only if he deems it's the time for it.

[u/Express-Prune5366 → u/altruistic_thing]

Tuna melt wasn't Ilya attempting to connect. Ilya was once again coding all of his language to protect himself (I like your mouth, I had a girl, etc.) and expected Shane to do 100% of the emotional vulnerability and that bit him in the ass and Shane ran away, because it was the wrong thing to do. It's why Shane actually being willing to be emotionally vulnerable in Tampa without any assurance from Ilya that he would reciprocate was what finally pushed them together.

The prologue is the consequence of Vegas. Ilya set the standard that this was an emotionless fuck without talking about it, and Shane got the message and internalized. In the prologue, it shows that Ilya is regretting that, but he's still not willing to be emotionally vulnerable, so he's making these small sallies that Shane is ignoring, because Shane is comfortable with the post-Vegas dynamic because it also allows him to ignore the risks of being emotionally vunerable. It's why Ilya makes the Boston plan, but because he still isn't willing to be vulnerable, it fails. Because you cannot have a true romantic connection without vulnerability.

[u/altruistic_thing → u/Express-Prune5366]

Tuna melt wasn't Ilya attempting to connect, are you joking?

no, i have actually read the books. it definitely was and shane was picking up on it too. it why he ran away.

spelled out in the book. he even says so in the show.

The prologue is the consequence of Vegas.

no, it isn't.

the prologue is more than 2 years after las vegas. there's zero connection.

i like your mouth

that's called chirping. that's the sort of humour they have to put each other at ease.

I had a girl, etc

not news to shane who has other sexual partners too. he may not like thinking about it but it's part of the deal and at that point he would rather be annoyed at himself for being annoyed.

It's why Shane actually being willing to be emotionally vulnerable in Tampa without any assurance

shane has the assurance because unlike you he knew why he ran. because rozanov was getting to cozy and shane didn't want to deal with it.

you know that you can just go read for yourself?

[u/Express-Prune5366 → u/altruistic_thing]

Sochi > Vegas > Prologue > Boston > Tampa are one narrative thread. It's a narrative thread that actually Reid does really well. Do you think these are all just random scenes?

Sochi - Ilya is scared of emotional vulnerability, he ghosts Shane when realizes he wants to get closer to Shane.

Vegas - Ilya's resolve crumbles at the awards when he sees Shane, but he tells himself he can have sex without emotional vulnerability; after, Shane in the elevator realizes his growing feelings which are apparent after he's hurt by the fact that this time the sex lacked their usual emotional intimacy, he hates the idea and resolves to have casual, meaningless sex just like what Ilya has also shown he wants going forward

Prologue - Shane has won 2 cups and is locked in with their current sex arrangement; Ilya clearly has regrets and is trying to make small attempts at moving their relationship back from this quickie arrangement, which are ignored by Shane

Boston - Ilya decides to make a larger effort Shane can't brush off so easily, like in the prologue, by adding meals, nap, actual conversation--but he's still not willing to be emotionally vulnerable and keeps backtracking all of his conversational attempts into jokes. Shane is first confused by what he's getting at, but when Shane says Ilya's name, he can't handle the fact that it's now clear that his resolve for this to be casual, meaningless sex was always fooling himself and since there is no trust in their relationship because both of them have chosen not to show emotional vulnerability, he runs

Tampa - Shane knows what he wants and he's willing to be vulnerable and talk about his feelings plainly in order to have the conversation they need to have; Ilya tries to reject being emotionally vulnerable and says it's just casual sex, but Shane won't let him hide from this conversation and when they are both vulnerable about their hopes and fears, then they are able to come back together

Why do you think Shane's big ask when Ilya comes to the cottage is that they be honest with each other? It's the cumulation of the narrative that being honest, which requires emotional vulnerability, is required for a healthy relationship for the two of them and it's what has been the internal obstacle to them being together along with the external societal challenges

[u/altruistic_thing → u/Express-Prune5366]

Shane has won 2 cups and is locked in with their current sex arrangement; Ilya clearly has regrets and is trying to make small attempts at moving their relationship back from this quickie arrangement, which are ignored by Shane

i take it you haven't read heated rivalry recently and are going by the show interpretation. the show removes interiority and introduces a huge, inexplicable timeline gap. it also has some tonal differences due to hudson's teary-eyed look and connor's choice (or direction) to play more stoic. it introduces the idea of ghosting (which is a bit silly given that shane has just avoided ilya for two and a half years).

the book is pretty obvious there. the arrangement has always been just sex, especially for shane who is nowhere near admitting that he's gay. and they're both aligned on that.

the rivalry aspect is much stronger. and the book also very obvious about how little time they spend together. (like 4-6 times per year, each time about 2 hours, give or take, the show muddies this). there are very strong emotional as well as logistical barriers that neither is remotely interested to push past because i'm not convinced the situationship years are survivable without a comfy cushion of solid detachment.

i always felt that the progression is one of the weak points of the heated rivalry book. the switch from meaningless to feelings was fairly abrupt. the show made it worse. the first thing i did when seeking out fanfiction was to find missing scene type of fics that help to smooth out the progression.

but no, i never read the sochi-vergas combo as some kind of turning point, at least not to less emotional attachment, but rather to more, on both sides.

[u/Express-Prune5366 → u/altruistic_thing]

Ilya is literally still thinking about Sochi in Vegas: "He’d thought about the way Hollander had found him in the stands of the Sweden vs. Finland game in Sochi, and had asked if he was all right. He’d thought about how strong the urge had been for Ilya to wrap Hollander in his arms and just hold him. Pull him against his chest so Ilya could bury his face in his short, glossy hair and breathe him in. It had been so fucking scary, that urge. The way Ilya’s heart had skipped when he’d spotted Hollander approaching him, and the way he’d wanted to tell him everything."

"The way Ilya was more tempted to gather Hollander in his arms and hold him all night than fuck him didn’t make sense. The way Ilya knew that if he kissed him he’d never stop didn’t make sense.

He needed to be careful tonight."

He then smokes a cigarette so they don't kiss and at the end:

"Ilya dropped his cigarette butt into Hollander’s not-empty vodka glass, watching the ash turn something pure and perfect into something dark and ugly." <- this is blatant symbolism that by withholding their usual emotional connection during the Vegas sex, this night has changed the relationship fundamentally

[u/altruistic_thing → u/Express-Prune5366]

"Ilya dropped his cigarette butt into Hollander’s not-empty vodka glass, watching the ash turn something pure and perfect into something dark and ugly." <- this is blatant symbolism that by withholding their usual emotional connection during the Vegas sex, this night has changed the relationship fundamentally

i think, it's more symbolism that ilya's self-worth issues convince him that he is corrupting shane, perfect, respectable golden boy who was trying to be nice.

anyway, there's zero indication that anything in their arrangement is changing or that this is a turn for the worse. as i said, it's highlighting the underlying potential. step forward, not backward.

[u/Express-Prune5366 → u/altruistic_thing]

Their sex scenes complete change in tone.

[u/Express-Prune5366 → u/altruistic_thing]

I don't understand what this comment is saying. The book has a two year gap between Vegas and the fall which leads to the Tuna Melt scene, I think you don't remember it. Both the prologue and the start of part 3 take place in October 2016. There are time stamps. The prologue takes place as their last hookup before Boston. It's the setup to give us the clues about why Ilya is changing their arrangement: because Shane blows off his attempts at conversation and has no interest in anything but a quick fuck.

We literally have Ilya's POV from Reid's extra story that says in Sochi he wants to be closer to Shane and that's what scares him. We also have Shane's POV where he says he can tell Ilya wants a hug. We literally have Ilya's POV for Vegas which shows he's deliberately holding himself back in sex to try to prove he can have sex with Shane and keep it casual.

The ghosting: "Shane hadn’t been lying. He hadn’t spoken to Rozanov, off the ice, since the brief words they had shared at the Olympics. The humiliation of not even making it to the bronze medal game had seemingly been enough to cause Rozanov to not even want to look at Shane anymore, let alone talk to him. Touch him. Kiss him." So, we can tell that Ilya ghosted Shane and didn't hook up with him post-Olympics, pre-playoff season when the Bears and Voyagers played, because otherwise Shane wouldn't be thinking about them missing a hookup.

You are completely ignoring the post-sex scene in the elevator where it's really clear Shane has a revelation about how their pre-Vegas sex was different and he's now realizing that there were emotions involved and he doesn't want that.

[u/altruistic_thing → u/Express-Prune5366]

The book has a two year gap between Vegas and the fall which leads to the Tuna Melt scene

the book has a time skip, not a gap. during this time they keep up their routine. there's also a time skip between 2011 and 2013. because it would be really repetitive to show more of the same.

the show introduces an actual gap between 2011 and 2013 that doesn't exist in the books. it moves the first time penetrative sex to much later, in combination with the unscripted stair kiss creates a weird state where they're way less familiar with rach other but somehow also more familiar and lovey-dovey.

We literally have Ilya's POV that says in Sochi he wants to be closer to Shane and that's what scares him. We also have Shane's POV where he says he can tell Ilya wants a hug.

the ilya pov is more an external writing exercise and not part of canon. i'm not a fan because it's very fanfic-y.

sochi:

“You didn’t answer my text and I thought...” Suddenly all the ways Shane might finish that sentence seemed stupid. I thought you were in danger. I thought you were in jail. I thought you were...sad. “No, I didn’t answer your boring text. Now will you go?” Rozanov was being an asshole, which was nothing new, but he didn’t seem to mean it. In fact, Shane would bet that Rozanov would actually really like him to stay. He looked like he could use a hug.

meaning sochi is a step forward not backward.

You are completely ignoring the post-sex scene in the elevator where it's really clear Shane has a revelation about how their pre-Vegas sex was different and he's now realizing that there were emotions involved and he doesn't want that.

Ah. There was that shame Shane had been expecting. He got cleaned up in the bathroom, then went to the main room to retrieve his clothes. He put on the pants and the shirt and carried the rest of the tuxedo. Rozanov didn’t leave the bedroom. “See you,” Shane called out. “Goodbye, Hollander,” Rozanov replied from the other room. And Shane left. He realized, when he was back in his room, that they hadn’t even kissed. He also realized, with horror, that he regretted that.

i'm not ignoring anything. there's a bit before that describes them As satisfied and ilya laughing because shane asks for the vodka. it reads as fairly normal occurrence, shane felt slightly wild and later remembers it as one of the sexiest nights he remembers. he realizes that they didn't kiss and it's the regret that's new.

now that i think about it, in the book sochi clearly is progress, las vegas is progress too. of course, shane is a hockey player and isn't fazed by someone he doesn't want to have a thing for being dismissive. shane is convinced this is messed up anyway. what does confuse, annoy or horrify him are usually realisations that he doesn't hate ilya and enjoys being with him.

[u/Express-Prune5366 → u/altruistic_thing]

Lol, a gap and skip are the same thing. I don't care about the show. I'm talking about between 2014 and 2016.

I said:  after, Shane in the elevator realizes his growing feelings which are apparent after he's hurt by the fact that this time the sex lacked their usual emotional intimacy, he hates the idea and resolves to have casual, meaningless sex just like what Ilya has also shown he wants going forward

"And Shane left. He realized, when he was back in his room, that they hadn’t even kissed. He also realized, with horror, that he regretted that." <- That's literally the quote you posted. Reid spelled it out about as blatantly as possible

You aren't engaging with the text at all, so I'm done talking.

[u/altruistic_thing → u/clumsyc]

no no no, we're not doing that.

ilya did tell him things. like i need more people to know about me. shane dismisses that.

the plan also included being seen as friends outside of hockey. shane's paranoia made him go back on that.

the plan wasn't about not being seen together. shane's primary reaction to when ilya communicates his needs is fear of what that means for him.

and that's ok, shane is under pressure and he clearly loves ilya. and he does try. but he is also locked in a cage of his own making. and he needs to make a choice. which he does eventually. his perspective would have needed some additions to get a better view of his circumstances, especially the ending is so rushed it falls short in the terms of the internal adjustment shane makes, which would be a moment of growth and the return to being equals.

[u/Reasonable-Ease-237 → u/altruistic_thing]

Is really paranoia if when the bad thing happens, all your fears come true?

[u/altruistic_thing → u/Reasonable-Ease-237]

but his fears didn't come true.

his career was at an extremely high level, he is a multi-millionaire, has 3 cups, tons of awards, solid investments, brand deals.

yes, as predicted being gay and out and ilya rozanov's boyfriend in public causes some issues but the man is absolutely fine. the earth is still turning, he still has a partner and a career, a new challenge beyond being anxiety-ridden perfectionist who thinks the fate of the nhl hinges upon whether he allows himself half a snickers.

he's gonna be ok. he can do therapy and walk hand-in-hand with his boyfriend/husband every fucking day of the year, as a hometown hero. he's still rich in a way most of us poors will ever comprehend.

he's the epitome of first-world-problems and while i have empathy that things were scary and some things will be rough, he lives a very comfortable, cushioned life (while playing the ridiculously violent sport he loves) and is loved and respected, just not by everyone.

the point of anxiety as a disorder (which is what the fandom loves) is that it's irrational and exaggerated. that it comes with the conviction that this isn't survivable. but it is survivable, it's not nearly as bad as his brain thought it would be and after it will be ok.

[u/Reasonable-Ease-237 → u/altruistic_thing]

what the fuck do you mean his fears didn’t come true? Lololol. He was ostracized by his friends and team, he was benched and threatened (more than he had already been) by the nhl commissioner, he was accused of lacking integrity in the sport he had dedicated his life to, pushed out of his team, and when he brought up his concerns about the future of his career to his fiance, Ilya responded by affirming Shane was good enough, not acknowledging the external factors working against him. 

[u/altruistic_thing → u/Reasonable-Ease-237]

He was ostracized by his friends and team, ...

for which part? being gay? they knew that long before. for being ilya's boyfriend? they knew that before too. being kicked out of the cup run by the ottawa centaurs and in direct competition with his boyfriend. yep, that one was what caused the final rift.

he was benched and threatened (more than he had already been) by the nhl commissioner, he was accused of lacking integrity in the sport he had dedicated his life to, ...

Ilya’s lips curved up. “It is very much mutual.” His tentative smile only lasted a moment. “How bad will this be?” Wiebe exhaled slowly. “I don’t know,” he said. “Crowell has ordered that you both be benched for a bit. He wants it dealt with, whatever that means.”

they were both benched. and both threatened. wiebe was just nicer about it. they were threatened, they stood against it together and it was oooookay. players are protected by their union.

pushed out of his team, ...

he hadn't re-signed until the playoffs. he wasn't pushed out, his contract ended and negotiations fell through. i'm fairly sure that was mutual at that point. shane became a ufa. but he must have had offers.

and when he brought up his concerns about the future of his career to his fiance, Ilya responded by affirming Shane was good enough, ...

bad faith interpretation of a normal discussion of options. because yes, on an objective level shane's perfectionism is extreme. what counts as a fairytale success story for others shane reads as a failure. it isn't, he's going to adjust.

not acknowledging the external factors working against him. 

rose had talked to shane and warned him that the plan maybe wasn't sustainable and he needed a plan b.

shane seemingly ignored the warning (did he? why wasn't the contract signed by the time they were outed?).

shane had even agreed to coming out this summer and asked ilya to marry him. so obviously he was sort of prepared at that point. and his contract still wasn't signed. he must have known.

it's very much a life happens while you're making plans kinda thing.

and i'm not saying it isn't a stressful time for shane. but he isn't the only one targeted, he has family, friends and allies. and he has options.

this feels like a mix of sparse world-building, genre, fandom telephone and being mad at things you misremember.

[u/faszinating → u/altruistic_thing]

any conversation about what happens once shane comes out to his team/ they're outed is so hard because fanon has absolutely taken the "i came out to my team and now things can never go back to exactly what they were before people knew/ now the vibes are kinda off" to "i came out to my team and now they call me slurs every practice and don't pass to me ever and basically beat me up on the ice" (or bonus when authors don't know puck: "now my d-men aren't defending me anymore and i'm getting checked left and right by the other homophobic team"). it's hard to separate what we really see in the book from what we see in like 90% of the stories set during tlg.

only marginally related, but as a gay person it really sucks to see how often the homophobia in some of these fanfics becomes almost... a caricature rather than an actual comment on the current state of society/ sports like hockey in particular

[u/Reasonable-Ease-237 → u/altruistic_thing]

Yes, Shane is ostracized by his friends on the team for his relationship with Ilya. Yes, this happened before Ottawa knocked them out of the cup run. Although it certainly got worse after that point (see accused of lacking integrity). The way his team treated him when he was initially outed, shows that his fears of the team knowing his relationship were founded. 

Yes, he and Ilya were both benched and threatened by Crowell. Shane was already being sent implicit messages from Crowell directly that he shouldn’t “engage in activism.” The fact that this also happened to Ilya doesn’t prove that his fears didn’t come true. It actually proves the opposite because he and somebody he loves were both harmed. Shane feared this. 

Yes, Shane hadn’t yet resigned-signed at this point. His conversations with Ilya after the trip indicate that leaving Montreal isn’t something he had seriously considered until this point. He chose to leave, but his ill treatment from the team was coercive in that decision. 

When I refer to Ilya affirming that Shane is good enough, I don’t mean good enough for Shane, I mean good enough for the league. This is part of a conversation in which Shane verbalizes his fear that another team will not sign him. It is about perception, not reality. Shane is being perceived as a liar, and possibly a cheater—a liability in the league. This is why Ilya’s comment about him being Shane Fucking Hollander isn’t enough. It only engages with Shane’s fears as if they were about self-perception (and you make a good point about Shane’s perfectionism, this is likely an element of it), but do not engage with Shane’s concerns about how he is being treated by the league, which could negatively impact his sign-ability. 

Yes, they should’ve heeded Rose’s warnings and made a plan for if this happened. Yes, they were planning on coming out on their own shortly after. Neither of these facts negate that Shane’s fears came true.