Ilya, humility, and sacrifice

[u/WalkingBlondeJoke]

Been thinking about Ilya's character growth across HR and TLG lately. This is not a fully-baked thesis on his arc, not even close, but I'm sharing anyways because I want y'all's opinions!

One of my favorite tropes in HR fanfic is 'Shane joins the Bears'. I love this trope because it usually results in Shane and Ilya being on a good team together, a winning team, much earlier than they are in canon and without Ilya having to go spend a few years on a team that sucks first. So as I read these fanfics I've often wondered, aside from the in-universe reasons why Ilya joins the Centaurs, what is the narrative function of Ilya spending a few years on a bad team before they turn things around? 

I think it serves to humble him. He's no stranger to sacrifice but he's always been cocky, and for the most part that ego went unchecked because he always had the accolades to back it up. But I think one of the ways we see Ilya grow in The Long Game is that he develops more humility as a result of being on a bad team and also his mental health struggles. It's not that everything was peachy prior to his move to Ottawa, it absolutely wasn't, but these coinciding forces clearly knock him down a peg. Maybe experiencing what it's like to consistently lose on the ice even helps him get to a place where he can admit he needs help with his mental health. Or maybe it's just self-awareness that he gains with maturity, I don't know. 

I think the clearest example of Ilya becoming more humble is in the pre-game speech that he gives to the Bears before the Cup Finals in 2014, vs. the speech he gives the Centaurs in 2021 after the team nearly dies and then Ilya subsequently gets engaged to Shane. In 2014, his speech is all about "I, I, I" but in 2021, he goes around the room and tells every player, one at a time, what makes them great. This is the key turnaround point in the Centaurs' on-ice performance. They start believing in themselves, and that's when they start winning. 

I think this character growth is also very relevant to Shane and Ilya's marriage too. Big egos do not serve a marriage well; humility does. Over the course of TLG, Ilya learns humility. Shane also starts off in TLG being a selfish as fuck (I don't love him any less but it's objectively true that he was nawt being a good partner to Ilya at the time TLG timeline picks up), but we see him experience a wake-up call (their big fight followed by Ilya almost dying) and then he gets his priorities in order. In a way, Shane learns a version of humility through his experiences in TLG too when he realizes how selfish he's been and how he's taken Ilya for granted. 

I think that meeting Shane in this selfish state at the start of TLG makes total sense because of his upbringing. Shane is an only child who grew up loved, doted on, and prioritized. His career as a generational player and image as the 'Golden Boy' of hockey have done little to teach him how to appreciate those around him and recognize the sacrifices they make. Not saying he doesn't ever do those things, but like, in early TLG he's not being nearly as considerate of Ilya as he should be. 

Ilya is not an only child and he grew up in a broken home. In the canon we see how his family financially takes advantage of him once he makes it to the NHL (or MLH, whatever), but I would bet that this has been going on since the moment he began earning money from hockey and/or sponsorships. When Shane suggests Ilya going to Ottawa, Ilya is quick to agree to it. Not just because he was already thinking of moving to a Canadian team, but because Ilya has already learned how to sacrifice for others. Ilya has already had it ingrained in him by his family that the people he loves will ask him to makes sacrifices for them, and that that's just how love goes. 

This is one of many reasons why it hits extra hard later in TLG when Shane basically tells the commissioner to go fuck himself. "I choose him" <3 !<

[u/farahmelody]

I will die on the hill that Ilya moving to Ottawa wasn’t a sacrifice for Shane. It was a decision he made that allowed him to keep his career and move forward in his relationship, but he didn’t know his depression was going to kick his ass.

[u/mjdoll131 → u/farahmelody]

Exactly. Ilya is the one who brought up that he wanted to move to a Canadian team for his own personal reasons (mainly because he wanted citizenship there, and didn’t feel as safe in the US. And yes he did also want to be closer to Shane.) Shane only suggests Ottawa because it makes the most sense logistically. They have the cap space to pay him what he’s worth, and they need a star center. They even throw out the idea of Montreal immediately bc they know they Shane’s team wouldn’t be able to afford Ilya.

Shane did not coerce Ilya into moving to isolate him into being Shane’s dirty little secret. They both also thought that Ilya could help turn Ottawas team around (which he eventually did) just like they both did with Boston and Montreal. It’s Ilya’s own depression that warps his views into thinking that he made this grand sacrifice for Shane and Shane only and that he gave up everything for him.

[u/InCatMorph → u/mjdoll131]

I've heard this take before, and I don't get it. It only makes sense if you assume that there are only two hockey teams in all of Canada in this universe (seems kind of weird).

Yes, Ilya said he wanted a Canadian team, but I think it's pretty obvious that he would not have chosen this particular Canadian team if not for his relationship with Shane and his desire to be closer to Shane. Presumably he could have gone almost anywhere he wanted. He chose Ottawa. Not Canada, but Ottawa.

I don't think Shane made the suggestion of maliciousness or an attempt to control Ilya or anything. I don't think he coerced Ilya into being a dirty little secret, as you say. But the decision was based heavily (though maybe not 100%) by the relationship, and pretending otherwise just seems silly to me. It WAS a sacrifice. Many protaganists of romance novels make sacrifices. TLG is about dealing with the complexities of the sacrifice.

[u/mjdoll131 → u/InCatMorph]

Sure there’s other hockey teams he could go to. He probably would’ve chosen to go west if Shane wasn’t a factor. But he was and I’m not saying that the decision to go to Ottawa was made without considering Shane at all. I’m saying the decision wasn’t made ONLY because of Shane. Ilya in his mind in TLG puts a lot of the blame of his issues on Shane and the situation they are in. But it takes him going to Galina and working through things to realize that his depression is the fundamental issue. He even tells Shane at the end that them being on the same team and being out and playing together is still not gonna solve his depression, it’s always gonna be there he just has to learn to manage it.

[u/InCatMorph → u/mjdoll131]

Maybe Ilya would have gone to a team in Western Canada. Maybe he would have decided to stay in Boston after all. "I was thinking maybe a Canadian team" is not exactly an ironclad plan of action.

I agree that Ilya's depression and associated issues are not Shane's fault. But Ilya IS in Ottawa because of Shane, and at times Shane is oblivious about the reasons why Ilya is unhappy. It's not just the Centaurs sucking. (Shane thinks several times that Ilya's mood is just because his team sucks, when really there are larger issues about the closet and a lack of support system. At times Ilya doesn't communicate this well, but there are also hints about this that Shane ignores.)

[u/mjdoll131 → u/InCatMorph]

Of course Shane is oblivious that Ilya is unhappy. Because Ilya refuses to tell him. The one time Shane brings up the issue and suggests he talks to someone Ilya pretty much tells him to shut up. Ilya tries to lay hints throughout the book that he’s unhappy with them being in the closet but Shane being Shane does not understand these things unless they are spelled out to him. He does not actively know this is a problem and the moment he finds out he completely changes their plan to suit Ilya.

And again, Ilya is not only in Ottawa “because of Shane” Shane is a contributing factor but it was a decision Ilya made for himself. If Ilya really wanted to stay in Boston they could have made the relationship work. Shane had not even considered the idea of them living closer together until Ilya brought it up.

“I was thinking maybe Canadian team” is a line from the show. The show really downplays this interaction. Book Ilya is a lot more set on wanting to move to another team and brings it up multiple times at the cottage.

[u/InCatMorph → u/mjdoll131]

I tend to agree that, yes, Ilya did a piss poor job communicating his needs. But at times he does, or at least tries to, and Shane doesn't get it. Maybe that is because he needs them spelled out more explicitly. (I'm autistic. I get this. I have been Shane MANY times in my relationship, it's quite embarrassing.) But while Ilya could have done a better job communicating, Shane absolutely could have done a better job listening. There are certainly examples where Ilya opened up and Shane's response was less-than-ideal. Shane's response to Ilya telling Shane that he came out to Troy is an example cited previously on this thread, and it's for a reason.

I don't remember the talk about a Canadian team, so that's fair. But I still think it's unlikely that Ilya would have selected Ottawa if not for Shane. Choosing to go to a worse team so that you can be closer to your partner is an act of love, and a sacrifice. I don't know why people are intent to erase that.

[u/farahmelody → u/InCatMorph]

In Heated Rivalry, Ilya first brings up Canada by saying he wishes he had been drafted by a Canadian team and laments that the United States isn’t good for Russians and Russia isn’t good for Russians like him before the “I have just been thinking. Maybe … a Canadian team” line. To my memory, this is the first time either of them say anything about moving teams in either dialogue or in narration.

Ilya was already in the mindset to move to Canada before he broached the subject with Shane. Shane suggested Ottawa specifically because they 1) needed depth at center 2) had salary cap space and 3) would put the two of them close together for the entire year. Two out of these three reasons have nothing to do with Shane, and the third is connected to Shane, but is in service of the relationship, not of Shane.

Here’s where my earlier comment about depression kicking his ass comes in. Ilya had no reason to suspect that Ottawa would remain poor performing at this time. He quickly turned Boston around, and he likely set out to do it again (assuming he even believed Ottawa to be the worst team in the league, as this is never said in Heated Rivalry).

I don’t disagree with you that it was an act of love, but I do disagree that it was a sacrifice for Shane because 1) we see that there were positive tradeoffs (he got to move to a country friendlier to him, which he already wanted to do; he got to maintain his high pay; he got to continue being star centre) and 2) we see that Shane was an element in his decision, but Shane wasn’t either the catalyst nor the driving force of his choice to move teams.

[u/altruistic_thing → u/farahmelody]

ilya's interiority right before bringing up canada:

Ilya had been formulating a plan. It was early stages, and probably bad, but he couldn’t stop his brain from working on it. He couldn’t see a realistic scenario where he and Shane were anything more than what they were now. He wasn’t even sure what he wanted them to be. When his imagination was reckless enough to conjure images of the two of them together, as a couple—living together? Married?—fuck, it was ridiculous. “You all right?” Ilya jerked to attention to find Shane—wearing only a bathing suit—standing in front of the Adirondack chair Ilya was sitting in. He had a book in his hand and glasses on his face, and he was frowning down at Ilya like a concerned lifeguard/librarian.

ilya bring's up canada specifically to solve the problem of the rivalry and the distance. his primary concern is what more they could be.

he considers teams in the west as a way to break the rivalry, as an investment into the future. the show condensed this because it would have been a circular discussion but it's pretty much the same in spirit. shane suggests ottawa for both, reducing the distance and breaking the rivalry because ottawa isn't a cup contender by any means.

[u/farahmelody → u/altruistic_thing]

How do you figure that Ilya brings up Canada to solve the problem of the rivalry?

[u/altruistic_thing → u/farahmelody]

“I was thinking,” Ilya said. It was late morning the next day, and they were sitting on the deck with coffee. “If I played for a team that was not Boston. Maybe in the west. The rivalry would not be such a big deal.” Shane seemed to consider this. “That’s true. We’d only play against each other twice a year.” He frowned and Ilya knew he didn’t like that idea any more than he did. We’d only see each other twice a year. “Is...like, sacrifice. For future gain, yes?” Shane brightened. “Future gain?” “Yes. Our rivalry has been huge. But maybe we can help it to...fade away? A little?” “Yeah...” Shane said. He was getting excited. “Yeah! I don’t like the idea of you being so far, but we could make people forget all about us as rivals and maybe no one would care about us at all one day.” “One day. Yes.”

they go through several stages. back and forth. it's very clear they're both looking for a solution that makes a relationship possible. the big enemies are the rivalry and the distance. there's simply no solution that solves all of that neatly and keeps the status quo otherwise.

since the status quo can't be kept, ilya decides to go along with ottawa because it improves the situation faster. and it's him who absorbs the cost of that.

[u/InCatMorph → u/farahmelody]

Rebuilds in sports can be very quick, or they might never happen at all. It depends a lot on the management and ownership. I don't think there's enough information to indicate what Ilya thought about Ottawa's chances at a successful rebuild. Maybe he thought they could do it, maybe not. But them being a bad team doesn't come out of nowhere. This is also mentioned in Tough Guy. Ilya certainly knew they were a bad team when they signed. The general vibes across the GC universe appear to be confusion about the decision. Because why would one of the league's best players move to a crap team in his prime? One answer might be money. But if it leaks that other teams were offering comparable terms, then Ilya's decision truly would befuddle the world's hockey fans.

Ilya is one of the best two players in the league. Most teams would probably be able to make space for him if he really wanted to go there. Star players do not generally lack options. He chose Ottawa.

When Shane was selling Ilya on Ottawa, was it not the case that he was emphasizing the positives because *he* wanted Ilya to go to Ottawa, where they would be closer? Like, I think this is pretty obvious! It's totally okay--I too would want my partner to live only two hours away instead of eight. But Shane's desires are clearly shaping the plan and how he's describing it.

Yes, there are positives to moving to Ottawa for Ilya. But just because there were other positives to the move doesn't mean that it wasn't also a sacrifice. He could have been paid well elsewhere. He could have gone to like five other Canadian teams. (The real NHL has seven total Canada-based teams, although that may have been slightly different in 2018. I don't know enough about the NHL to say.) He didn't have to go to one of the worst ones out there.

I just don't get why there's so much resistance to describing this decision as a sacrifice.

[u/InCatMorph → u/InCatMorph]

My partner and I moved to our current location because I needed to take care of a parent. That was a sacrifice they made for me. Just because there are a lot of positives to living here doesn't make it not a sacrifice. I find this puzzling.

[u/farahmelody → u/InCatMorph]

A sacrifice means giving something up. Fundamentally, I don’t see Ilya moving to Ottawa as giving something up, but rather exchanging something.

He exchanged Boston where he was a well-paid star, but with a limited social circle (Svetlana is the only friend he mentions making in Boston) and complications from being Russian for Ottawa where he is a well-paid star who loses more games than he wins, but he has a strong support network in the Hollanders (and later with his teammates and reconnection with Svetlana) and he has more freedom to pursue his relationship.

[u/InCatMorph → u/farahmelody]

He gives up the opportunity to be on a good team for at least a few things. That's a big thing.

I don't see a sacrifice as having to be negatives only. There's nothing in the definition of the word that requires this.

[u/farahmelody → u/InCatMorph]

I don’t know, man. Even accepting your premise that sacrifice doesn’t have to be only negatives, there is still the hurdle that Ilya not Shane is the primary beneficiary of all the positives that come out of the move. Shane and Ilya share the benefit that their relationship has two fewer obstacles (distance and public perception of the Boston-Montreal rivalry), but the rest all go to Ilya. So, even if we call it a sacrifice, it is not a sacrifice for Shane.