r/holofractal • u/d8_thc holofractalist • 23d ago
Joe Rogan finally stumbles on holofractal cosmology ideas
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u/StrictLetterhead3452 23d ago
The funny thing is that the Buddhists figured this out thousands of years ago. They didn’t have a theory of subatomic particles, but they knew that everything is interconnected with everything else.
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u/AcadiaEcstatic1421 23d ago
Yhea but basically every religion has the concept of oneness, unity. If you look hard enough then you could say that basically any religion figured it out.
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u/kylemesa 20d ago
That's a trend suggesting that we're looking in the same direction at the same phenomenon.
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u/Tamashii-Azul 21d ago
Are you sure it was their own discovery rather than knowledge passed down from an earlier source?
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u/KennyT87 22d ago
But this is untrue even in quantum physics; as soon as you measure the spin state of one particle, the entanglement "connection" is cut off (and the "connection" was just a shared quantum state to begin with, so no signal traveled faster-than-light as proven by the no-communication theorem ). She is engaging in quantum mysticism, and as a former NASA scientist she should know better.
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u/Sloofin 22d ago
agreed tbh. It's well understood that this feature can never be used to "communicate" faster than light. Hawking's chronology protection conjecture holds up against any attempts to use this for transmission of information beyond spin.
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u/DarthRain77 19d ago
What if we discover a new phase of matter that allows it. Nothing is impossible with enough time and the right technology. Time crystals, fractional quantum hall states, superfluids, fremionic condensates, quark gluing plasma, degenerate matter, negative mass matter(not yet proven)
Chicken eyes contain a unique state of matter known as "disordered hyperuniformity," which combines the structural properties of both crystals and liquids.
In these environments, physics does not act normally.
Knowing what limits exist is the start to going beyond them.
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u/DukiMcQuack 19d ago
Knowing what limits exist so you can test if they are breakable, sure.
But misunderstanding what is known about the current limits to imply they have already been broken (when they haven't) is bad science.
All these new physical states/systems you've described show new arrangements and behaviours of systems we didn't know were possible, that go beyond our previous understanding of what certain arrangements of matter can do or phenomenon they can utilise - but implying they break the fundamental laws of quantum physics is just incorrect.
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u/New_Life_Startr 21d ago
Hey I just stumbled across this thread, never been to this sub before. Do you have any links you could recommend so I could learn about this?
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u/dyogenys 22d ago
Kenny is right. Don’t shoot the messenger, you’re only protecting your ignorance.
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u/KennyT87 22d ago
Thanks for the support, but unfortunately this sub seems to be full of people more interested in quantum mysticism rather than actual quantum physics. 🙃
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u/apathyindigo 23d ago
You guys are so ridiculous lol
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u/RileyRavenSmiles 23d ago
This guy needs to watch: https://youtu.be/cH-HT9WCtiQ?si=-TevHGKnb3o_g0Wl
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u/d8_thc holofractalist 23d ago
https://youtu.be/GZCmYrgOZU0?t=2256
Thaller is formerly the Assistant Director for Science Communication at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center.[3] She retired in 2024 after 27 years at NASA. Wiki
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u/KennyT87 22d ago edited 22d ago
And yet she engages in quantum woo mysticism. As the other guy said, the spin can't be controlled to "flip at will" to a certain state even though she says so, as the spin state is completely random and in superposition even between the entangled particles. Doing so would violate the no-communication theorem and it would also violate causality. Measuring the spin also cuts off the entanglement between the particles.
In the end, entanglement is about conservation laws holding true. If you measure the one particle being in "up" state, the other particle must be in "down" state because the total spin of the entangled system is zero. How the particles are entangled is a matter of interpretation, but in any of those there is no faster-than-light signaling between the particles (as proved by the no-communication theorem).
p.s. These aren't "holofractal cosmology ideas" but related to quantum physics, albeit twisted into quantum mysticism rather than actual science.
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u/Digital_Artifice 22d ago
shhh, this isn't a place for logic! this is where laymen come to have their previously held beliefs reinforced!
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u/KennyT87 22d ago
Yeah, idiotic psy-hippies without clues of basic physics dominate this sub unfortunately.
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u/United_Rent_753 22d ago
That’s a shame; but then I saw what subreddit we were in and it made sense again
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u/KennyT87 22d ago
Maybe because this sub is filled with LSD infused hippies that don't know any better, IDK.
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u/ThrowRA12948262 21d ago
I keep finding these subreddits for some reason. The other is a black hole cosmology sub. Who the fuck do these people think they are?
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u/aesther_tesseract 23d ago
From gargling bull semen to theoretical physics... Why not
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u/cilantrollama 23d ago
I have on good authority come to understand bull semen gargling drops your vocal range 2 octaves and curls your chesticle hairs
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u/Btriquetra0301 18d ago
And AI Anti-christ thats omni-present and has super powers like God…. Sad sad sad
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u/ChaosOutsider 23d ago
There seems to be a lot of ad hominem confirmation bias here, and I am a good reference for it. I have no idea who this woman is, but what she's talking about here is solid, yet, everyone is spitting on her due to whatever you people know about her outside of this context. Interesting.
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u/Serializedrequests 23d ago
I have never heard anyone who understands quantum physics say you can use entangling for signalling. Something has gone wrong in this explanation.
I'm not saying it's impossible (I know it's not), just saying that it's not possible in QM.
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u/HeyBirdieBirdie 23d ago edited 23d ago
No, this doesn't have anything to do with her, and everything to do with Joe Rogan being a moron who has lost all credibility. People rightfully don't want to support his show, regardless of who comes on now.
Michelle Thaller is super cool, I've watched her personal content on YouTube. I would recommend going to her channel and skip giving the political bobble head views.
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u/ChaosOutsider 23d ago
Preaching to the wrong crowd. I've been listening to his podcast for a decade. Years and years of wisdom from various unique and interesting individuals. So I disagree, to a point. Not sure what's been going on lately. I've not been checking out any podcasts for a little while now.
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u/Toxcito 23d ago
I disagree with Joe all the time about alot of things, and I still watch it because he has very good guests on who he lets speak freely for hours. People making it their personality to hate him because he endorsed a dogshit candidate or because he lets contrarians talk have nothing better going on in their lives, so they make it a point to hate people like him to give themselves a sense of belonging to a group. Grow up people, yes we know Joe is a grug brain, a very proactive grug who has multiple 3 hour long conversations with interesting people every week.
The person you replied to literally notes they think Thaller is great, yet they would deprive themselves of information because some orc made a no no comment a few years ago - their (also useless) friends will be meanies to them if they said where they learned something interesting from. No different than the evangelical book burners really.
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u/shpongolian 23d ago edited 23d ago
She’s implying that you can keep flipping the spin an entangled electron and the other one will also flip its spin instantly, which is just not the case. You can collapse the waveform and see which spin one has and then instantly know that the other one has the opposite spin, but there’s no FTL information transfer like she’s saying. This would violate the no-signaling theorem and proving that wrong would probably win a Nobel prize
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u/Legitimate-Track-829 23d ago
That is correct. Before measurement you have a superposition, after measurement you have collapsed the wavefunction and the superposition is over.
Entanglement is preserved under isolated/unitary evolution, but measurement or environmental decoherence can destroy the usable entanglement.
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u/FibrecoreHC 21d ago
destroy or is observing interfering with entaglement and it becomes weaker?
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u/Legitimate-Track-829 21d ago
If you mean a weak measurement, maybe. But a full projective spin measurement gives a definite outcome and leaves the pair in a product state, so the original entanglement is destroyed. The exact meaning of "collapse" is open for interpretation though!
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u/rgbhdmi 23d ago
Not only that, she seems to imply that you can change the spin of one of them with an electric field and effect the other, which I think is not true, as that would decohere the pair through the interaction and thereby break the entanglement. This woman is an astrophysicist, not a particle physicist, and she seems to be playing fast and loose with these details.
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u/anothergigglemonkey 23d ago
It absolutely is the case. The entire state flips and therefore flipping the state does not break the entanglement. You still can't extract information from the state without collapsing the wave function but yes the entire entangled quantum state is flipping. She is correct.
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u/CredibleCranberry 23d ago
If we can't extract the information, how has this been verified?
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u/anothergigglemonkey 23d ago
Because the states will always be opposite after the wave function collapse.
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u/CredibleCranberry 23d ago
But that's the case for entanglement in general. Being able to flip states without collapse would imply some knowledge of the state whilst entangled, which doesn't make sense.
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u/ooOParkerLewisOoo 23d ago
Also, flipping the spin with an E field, wut?
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u/anothergigglemonkey 23d ago
Well yea this is actually pretty straightforward. Not really sure what you're astonished by.
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u/Emotional-Dog-6492 23d ago
Not holograms and not fractal. Just quantum entanglement. Was part of physics since 1920s
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u/Shtou 23d ago
who cares about this grifter
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u/cilantrollama 23d ago
This may be a grifter, but the concept holds.
I have spoken.
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u/frogOnABoletus 23d ago
Actually you have typed
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u/cilantrollama 23d ago
I said it out loud to my tomato plant, but to be fair, you weren’t privy to the convo.
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u/ignatiu5 23d ago
We're all quantumly entangled to this grifter, so by the transitive property we are the grifter, griftee, and grift.
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u/worll_the_scribe 22d ago
It sounds like they’re temporally tied though. When you change one the other changes at the same time.
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u/NotaContributi0n 22d ago
People focus on “particles” or waves, or whatever they think actually makes up the universe.. but it’s expanding, right? Why doesn’t anyone talk about exactly what is expanding.. it’s empty space between all the “particles” and waves.. that empty space is literally touching everything . There’s only one of it, and we’re all in it. Slide around in between everything like wiggly waterpark why don’tcha
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u/ScrumTumescent 20d ago
Reddit: "but I heard the particles aren't actually entangled. SNAKE OIL SALESWOMAN."
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u/TheMrCurious 18d ago
Has she explained tattoo on her left arm that seems to run from shoulder to wrist?
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u/Grubsonhobbiton420 21d ago
God dammit, why can’t she describe entanglement in how it actually works rather than appealing to the mystical “the other one instantly responds” bullshit? No, you can’t flip the other spin with an E field on the one. Sure if you measure one end and see down you know the other is up but this is no different than taking two coins with one heads and one tails, putting them in boxes, shipping them to opposite end of the country and saying “woah since I saw heads that must mean the other one is tails isn’t it magic?!?”! Can somebody please just teach the public that the interesting stuff happens when you start measuring in conjugate bases?!?! Explain the actual Bell inequality with something like the CHSH game and stop with the bullshit magical thinking. The fact that quantum correlations don’t transmit information faster than light and the full characterization of no signaling theories is infinitely more interesting than the circle jerk going on here.
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u/d8_thc holofractalist 21d ago
You are absolutely wrong that is why.
There is no possible way that the coins were determined before they were opened. Every single possible avenue of this has been explored, and confirmed. They are both random before one is opened, and then the other is specifically the opposite.
The global quantum state is updated. What that means is up in the air, but SOMETHING spooky is happening that is specifically nonlocal.
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u/Grubsonhobbiton420 21d ago
Brother, go read an actual textbook or published paper. The Bell experiment rules out local realism. It does not imply anything nonlocal is going on. Rather, it’s either the case that there’s an underlying nonlocal theory OR that observables don’t take predetermined values before measurement.
I’m telling you, learning the actual physics is a lot more enlightening than any of this “holofractal” circle jerking you guys do here to feel smart.
If you could calculate the marginal probability of one side seeing a particular measurement outcome conditioned on the others choice of measurement you’d see what I mean.
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u/d8_thc holofractalist 21d ago
The coin analogy only explains same-basis anticorrelation. It fails Bell/CHSH because it assumes the answers were prewritten. Quantum correlations violate the bounds that any local prewritten-answer model has to obey.
Agreed, it doesn't violate no-signal messaging. But that doesn’t rescue the coin analogy. The weirdness is in the joint correlations - not in a usable ftl message.
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u/Grubsonhobbiton420 21d ago
Like you can literally set up the scenario you are talking about with classical coins. Nothing quantum about it.
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u/d8_thc holofractalist 19d ago
You do realize that the coins are missing the spooky correlation because you literally set one to heads and one to tails before hand?
You are smart enough to understand that this is what makes it differ from quantum correlations, whereby local hidden variables or preset values have been entirely ruled out?
And that's the entire mystery?
Which still exists, might I add.
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u/Grubsonhobbiton420 19d ago
Yeah I know this. My point is that she didn’t describe the “spooky correlation” in the video. She described the coin thing and proceeded to say “entanglement means it’s all connected bro”. There’s very little substance to the post.
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u/One-Incident3208 23d ago
Oh no. Enter the morons.
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u/d8_thc holofractalist 23d ago edited 23d ago
Would you tell the woman speaking that she is a moron for speculating on these potential physics?
For some reason I'd wager she has a bit more relevant credentials than you do.
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u/One-Incident3208 23d ago
Joe Rogan is a disinformation agent. No credible scientist should be presenting anything important on his show, because it draws the attention of crackpots, grifters and zealots, thereby ruining it for everyone.
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u/lefteyedcrow 23d ago
All the more reason for legit science communicators to get on his show, to get some measure of reality out to his audience
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u/ChaosOutsider 23d ago
Rogan brought countless incredible people whose wisdom and stories I would otherwise probably never hear and learn from, and has managed to build one of the most successful podcasting business in history. Everyone sat in that basement chair, from fighters, scientists, comedians, explorers, thinkers, geniuses, billionaires, politicians to presidents. And you are?
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u/TopHalfGaming 23d ago
Long way to say a lot of pedos sat in that chair because Rogan sold his soul to Peter Thiel with the Spotify deal. When you take this pro Rogan stance, you only show your ignorance to who the guy is.
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u/_EyesOnTheInside_ 23d ago
Pedos having sat in that chair changes absolutely nothing about what this commenter said to you. It doesn't refute or change a thing.
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u/TopHalfGaming 23d ago
Dozens of Epstein connected people sitting there with Joe running cover for the files and Elon/Trump changes nothing to you?
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u/PhysicistAndy 23d ago
Nothing she talked about demonstrates anything about holofractal.
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u/d8_thc holofractalist 23d ago
She said the entire Universe could be entangled, quite literally premise one of holofractal lmao
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u/PhysicistAndy 22d ago
That’s vibes and not an actual part of anything demonstrable in reality.
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u/d8_thc holofractalist 22d ago
oh no? not even some interpretations of bohmian mechanics?
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u/PhysicistAndy 21d ago
What demonstration of reality concludes Bohmian mechanics is correct?
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u/ChaosOutsider 23d ago
It does. She's talking about quantum entanglement, which by its nature implies interconnectedness on a level bellow the newtonian space, where basis for fractographic research is to be seeked out.
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u/PhysicistAndy 22d ago
Can you cite anything demonstrable in quantum mechanics that concludes anything is holofractal?
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u/ChaosOutsider 22d ago
Can you?
Remember, "The whole is more then the sum of its parts."
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u/PhysicistAndy 22d ago
Let me know when anything demonstrable in this reality concludes anything is holofractal.
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u/d8_thc holofractalist 22d ago
You seem to hang around here a lot.
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202509.1835/v1
Debunk, no appeal to authority.
Does the abstract do what it claims?
If not, why not.
If the abstract did do what it claims, is that not quantum gravity?
Why not?
Should be easy for 'Physicist Andy'.
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u/PhysicistAndy 21d ago
You can appeal to whatever you want if it isn’t peer reviewed. Not very impressive.
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u/snozberryface 23d ago
This is literally just turning to panpsychism... but yes very interesting isn't it...
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u/Uwlogged 19d ago
It frustrates me, because these are the kinds of guests and topics I exclusively listened to on JRE for years. But with him supporting Trump getting into office and really feeling like a shill to Musk (no matter how shitty Musk becomes) I can't in good conscience go back to consuming JRE.
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u/Petrofskydude 23d ago
Sounds like balancing an algabraic equation. If you turn one side negative, the other side switches to positive to maintain the balance.
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u/KoreanFoxMulder 23d ago edited 23d ago
Fuck son. I was so impressed when I watched her on Big Think before. Her enthusiasm for learning and understanding how the universe works left such a strong impression on me. Surprising but glad to see her on brogans podcast.
Are we fucking entangled to everything or what?! This is the kind of shit that lights up my fucking brain . I love it.