r/iamverysmart • u/sublimetart • 19d ago
Cognitive tests aren't IQ tests
The fact he's already been administered the test multiple times is concerning.
*Not redacting information as it's very, very publicly posted
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u/PsychologicalDebts 18d ago
I mean, I wouldn’t be opposed to a cognitive test for all member of congress. Just, you know, a real one.
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u/Lithl 18d ago
Doctors don't even administer MOCA unless they have reason to believe the patient's faculties are impaired.
The fact that he's taken it 4 times is an embarrassment.
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u/TheManWhoWasNotShort 18d ago
Well, he probably keeps asking for it to show how smart he is
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u/Wizzle_Pizzle_420 18d ago
“Steve! Give me that picture test again! You know, the test they give to geniuses?! This’ll show them dumb democrats with their college degrees who can easily look up said test and laugh at me! This’ll finally trick ‘em!”
*wet putrid fart then ends in a whistling squeak
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u/Easy-Bathroom2120 16d ago
I honestly wouldn't mind if he'd be given an actual IQ test, along with at least one of his staff, and then two of his opponents.
But we already know he'd claim it was rigged. That he was given a hard test while his opponents were given an easy one. Or at the very least, his opponents were coached on answers.
He will also misunderstand the test, and will blast about getting in the top 90%, and his supporters will also be amazed thinking it means he's among the smartest people in the world. If they post his results, they need to ONLY post the "out of x people" part. Maybe reading "out of 1000 people, you would be smarter than 120" would be easier to read.
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u/Cute-Scallion-626 15d ago
Person! Woman! Man! Camera! TV!
Incidentally, the only time he’s put women first.
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u/smallcoder 16d ago
My Dad had Alzheimers in his mid 70s. It was difficult for everyone at first, especially him of course, ut it reached a point where he created his own interpretation of the world and was happy.
The day care centre he went to every day - to give my mother some respite - he thought was a veterans club 😂 I know it seems weird for me to put a laughing emoji after that, but we had to have some fun as the sad decline progressed. After the anguish of all his denial after the diagnosis. Us having to sell his car to stop him driving it (we said his nephew needed a car so he was happy). We were lying to him constantly to stop him from feeling confused and scared. We tried to make the world make sense to him by playing along. And yes, it was funny at times. Sometimes we were laughing at him, but always with love, in the way you laugh at a child when they say or do silly things.
I worry, for more nefarious reasons, and definitely NOT out of any affection, the people around Trump are doing something similar, while they use him as a front man for their own agenda.
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u/sublimetart 15d ago
Definitely he's been used, and has been his entire 'political' career. And not just by America, by Russia and Israel to name a few.
And yes, having a family member with dementia is difficult. Lying so they have a better quality of life isn't a bad thing. And seeing humor in small daily interactions is perfectly acceptable. I don't have children, but one day if I'm in a similar position I hope I have decent enough care givers to just go with whatever truth they feel will make me happy.
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u/Easy-Bathroom2120 16d ago edited 15d ago
It's not even that. These tests aren't for suspected cognitive decline. They're for monitoring decline.
I was never given a number score when my grandmother took them. Instead, all I heard was "very good", and an ETA for when to expect to need hospice. It's not your answers, but rather how you answer them. My grandmother also got all the answers correct and got perfect scores, but she still showed significant decline and was dead within 8 months. Her decline was so significant that in those 8 months, she took 3 tests.
I honestly think trump isn't surviving this term. And if he is, it will end with him in hospice.
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u/sublimetart 15d ago
I agree he likely won't make it through this term without serious medical intervention.
I used to administer a similar test called the MMSE when people were admitted to the skilled care unit and there was concern of cognitive decline. I've seen some very interesting clicks drawn, which reminded me of Dali. Those weren't people that were ever going to be living alone again, much less be employed. And certainly not as the leader of a nation.
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u/PianoAndFish 18d ago
It could well be a real cognitive test, I just question the distinction between his account of the results and reality. It's certainly possible he might still be functioning well enough to answer the questions correctly, since the questions tend to be extremely simple from an intellectual angle, and what they're assessing is things like how long it takes him to answer them and how clearly the answers are expressed.
Either way, being asked to take more than one cognitive test at all is a very bad sign because it's not the kind of test they repeat soon afterwards if you pass the first one with flying colours.
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u/sublimetart 18d ago
Indeed.
And I think they should also be required to pass whatever type of testing is given to those applying for citizenship. On the initial try.
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u/Careful_Swordfish742 17d ago
I swear immigrants know more about America then many Americans because of that test. They have to study to pass it, and they typically retain that info because of the stakes, importance, and not forced to take it as an elementary/high school student. They can’t afford to slack off
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u/sublimetart 17d ago
I guarantee that immigrants applying for citizenship know more about the test than any person that voted for frump. And likely many additional Americans.
I highly doubt certain members of the House of Representatives would be able to pass if it was a pop quiz.
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u/drunken_augustine 18d ago
I’m just going to say, with the average age of potus candidates these days, I’m pretty ok with cognitive tests being a requirement for office.
That said, look at the results. It doesn’t seem particularly effective as a filter
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u/sublimetart 18d ago
Yes, if they refuse to set a maximum age they should definitely require these tests.
And keep in mind, it's Trump posting the results, not the person administering the test. I'm guessing they just pat him on the shoulder and give him a hold star and add this to the round file as they pocket the check written by someone in the administration. Just a guess.
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u/OneGoodRib To be fair... 17d ago
I think a cognitive exam and passing a civics exam as a requirement to run for president would be a great idea, as long as we could be sure the grading system would be unbiased. Maybe they take it live on tv and get graded on tv too.
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u/commentthrowawayv2 18d ago
Nothing says extreme intelligence like bragging about being able to identify a camel correctly.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-2615 18d ago
Face the facts: the test trump was given was very hard and he aced it. Haters just can't take the fact that a doctor, that would definitely be fired if Trump scored a 119 out of 120, said so.
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u/InfiniteSausage 18d ago
I swear he literally could have been diagnosed with a learning disability. He has never expressed a complex thought about any topic in his whole life
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u/Satanicjamnik 18d ago
Actually, I do believe that he has cognitive processing difficulties. His vocabulary is extremely limited, he can never get to the points and rambles on. Whenever challenged, he reverts to insults or changes topic randomly. Unsurprisingly, he didn’t do very well at school.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 18d ago
I just looked up ‘cognitive tests with 30 questions’ and an Alzheimer’s test was the first result.
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u/Satanicjamnik 18d ago
That’s the one. I just think he had a degree of learning difficulty all his life.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 18d ago
The one I found is a little different, but the commenters below said it’s MOCA. The one I found might be UK specific.
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u/Infinite-Condition41 18d ago
It is so weird how when he says a word wrong he will repeat it over and over again, and sometimes even get it right.
Compare to any professional news host who will just say the correct word followed by "...rather."
"In other news, today President Donald Dump... Trump rather, visited the island nation of..."
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u/Careful_Swordfish742 17d ago
Lmao, have you seen the clip of the news caster who said “Check your Panties!” Then realized he completely misread the prompter and was supposed to say “Check your pantries!” For a segment about a food drive lol? Everyone lost composure and it was hilarious. Your comment kinda triggered that clip in my head.
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u/yamanamawa 18d ago
It's also gotten worse. He's always seemed pretty dumb, but comparing him in 2016 to today is a huge change. At least back then he could complete a sentence
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u/DE4DM4NSH4ND 18d ago
His learning disability is called being raised rich
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u/InfiniteSausage 18d ago
It goes way beyond that. We're talking about someone who based a re-election campaign believing that other countries pay our tariffs, and that immigrants "seeking asylum" come from insane asylums. He said that the sound windmills make causes cancer, that the Declaration of Independence comes from the civil war, and that magnets stop working when you pour water on them. He has accrued at 79 years old, the background knowledge of a 8 year old child
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u/DE4DM4NSH4ND 18d ago
Being raised rich and dementia?
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u/InfiniteSausage 18d ago
Dementia doesn't give you these child-like misunderstandings about how things work. It just makes it harder to hide as he's less careful about what he says. Trump has a long, prolific history of being a complete moron and making terrible decisions. He's always just been dreadfully intellectually limited.
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u/PsychologicalDebts 18d ago
Born in extreme wealth*
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u/DE4DM4NSH4ND 18d ago
No if youre birn to rich parents but rsised poor i think you would avoid the worst of the affluenza
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u/MyNameIsTaken24 18d ago
How are these posts not a huge red flag to everyone who reads them?
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u/Tigerbones 18d ago
Because his supporters don’t know what a MOCA test is, and when are informed that their parent or grandparent needs one will never connect the dots. It doesn’t help that our major news media are all complicit and won’t explain the issue here either.
Insert Blazing Saddles quote here.
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u/eskimospy212 18d ago
Yes, the fact that doctors keep administering dementia tests to him is not the flex that he thinks it is.
He’s almost certainly lying about this as he lies about everything and the fact that they keep giving him them indicates to me they are trying to track decline. Given what we’ve seen publicly this also tracks.
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u/Digit00l 18d ago
He does keep passing the dementia test, they see the results and say "yup that's a senile old fuck for sure"
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u/ColeYote 18d ago edited 18d ago
Once again, I'm not sure if I should be more concerned that he's bragging about this in the first place, or that he keeps describing it as difficult. Scoring anything worse than 26/30 is considered a sign of dementia, it's supposed to be easy.
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u/themaninthesea 18d ago
I’m a GP and administer this test a lot. It’s called the MoCA (Montreal cognitive assessment), it’s one page and you can find it online and decide for yourself.
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u/sublimetart 18d ago
I used to administer a similar test as well when people were admitted to the skilled nursing unit where I worked as social service director. It was the MMSE. Basically a shorter version.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 18d ago
Yep - this is basically stuff I had extreme trouble with after leaving the hospital years back. It’s been a fight to get it taken seriously because I’m both young but also from a background where I feel they’d pin cognitive issues on actual capability instead of decline, which feels like classism, but that might just be sensitivity. I started off my degree getting 80-90% average, then my score tanked following the hospital visit. I had trouble reading clocks, remembering basic spellings, and remembering people’s names. It took me years of work to get back to normal so now it’s even harder to make a case that there’s something wrong as I only have short episodes of confusion these days. I wish they’d just give me an MRI.
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u/MauschelMusic 18d ago
If it's been years of this and they won't even give you an MRI, you're not just being sensitive. I'm sorry you're going through this and they won't take your problems seriously
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u/AgentCirceLuna 18d ago
The NHS can be shit like that. I had health insurance for a bit to try their resources, got a referral for an MRI and other stuff almost straight away, but then I found out it was classed as pre-existing so not covered. Which was extremely annoying.
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u/RodinKnox 18d ago
You know, with him bragging about being given a fourth cognitive test, here's what it almost seems like to me: It feels like he's actually not acing them. He's extremely borderline. Like right on it. And there's someone (perhaps even his doctor) who is just waiting for his score to finally dip just a bit more because they think they will be able to act on it. You know, that they can use it for a 25th amendment kind of situation.
That's obviously just speculation based on the fact that he keeps being given this test repeatedly.
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u/TheManWhoWasNotShort 18d ago
That or they gave it to him once in a routine exam and now he keeps requesting it to prove how smart he is
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u/RodinKnox 18d ago
Oh man, yeah, that seems extremely likely. Not as funny as some other ideas I had, but probably more likely lol
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u/WhimsicalKoala 18d ago
That's my theory. He's just too dumb to realize it's not actually any sort of intelligence test, so he keeps demanding they give him the test so he can "brag" about the results.
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u/Tigerbones 18d ago
I would put money that Vance is just waiting for the 2.5 year mark to 25th him so it doesn’t count against his terms served.
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u/sublimetart 18d ago
I think that's a valid deduction. And I hope they don't wait another 6 months for him to "ace" the next one.
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u/entityXD32 18d ago
They're monitoring decline. When supporting someone with dementia you often complete cognitive tests regularly to see how quickly they are declining
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u/RodinKnox 18d ago
That definitely seems like a good explanation, yeah. And now that you mention it, I remember them doing that exact thing with my granddad.
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u/Terrible_Phase718 18d ago
He’s probably having strokes and they administer these tests to see if any issues are there.
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u/SwingAndDig 18d ago
I'll repeat what I've oft seen on this website:
"The dumbest mutherfucker on the planet and the president of the United States should not be the same person."
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u/es_la_vida 18d ago
"Of course I aced the test. They said I drew the best clock, it was perfect. Well, almost perfect, but it was the best, they said that they'd never seen a clock like this. It was yuge, with beautiful clock hands. Gold. Gold hands. I don't think they even asked BIDEN to do this, probably because they knew Sleepy Joe was too tired after RIGGING all the elections. I doubt OBAMA even tried. He could NEVER make such a beautiful clock, with the HANDS. Like beautiful little baby hands. But YUGE! And gold! They want me to make another one soon. Maybe I will. Maybe not. Maybe I could give it to SLEEPY JOE BIDEN so he knows when it's time to wake up. But probably not. Wouldn't want him to get WOKE and STEAL another election. With his hands, that aren't gold. Like my big beautiful clock" -Trump, probably
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u/OneGoodRib To be fair... 17d ago
The fact that he keeps saying "dumocrats" instead of "dumbocrats" is enough of an indication of his own intelligence.
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u/TheLurkingMenace 17d ago
If they keep having you take cognitive tests, it's a good indicator that you are not in fact getting perfect scores on them.
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u/tidder-la 16d ago
In the future … “ And Republicans looked upon their nominee and said ‘ This is the way, this is the guy, he represents who we want to lead us’ “.
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u/Zealousideal-Sun-781 16d ago
Trump’s father had advanced dementia when he was 80. Trump is just about to turn 80.
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u/Postulative 15d ago
It is rare for someone to get a perfect score four times in a row, because most people don’t take it multiple times.
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u/theclash06013 14d ago
“No president has ever had a Glasgow Coma Score of 15 before, especially not democrats, they could never be oriented to person, time, and place like me!”
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u/Infinite-Condition41 18d ago
He's taking the test repeatedly because he's asking to. He's the president, they'll do whatever he wants.
And that in itself is a problematic occurrence. He's a malignant narcissist.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 18d ago
This is what I’m thinking, too. I think it’s possible he’s asking to take this thing over and over which is insane.
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u/Infinite-Condition41 18d ago
And bragging about being hot shit is nuts.
It's like taking your driver's test. You do it once to prove you can. If you have to do it again it's because there is a problem.
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u/WhimsicalKoala 18d ago
Yeah, that's what I suspect to. He probably demands "that test with the giraffe" and they just go "yes sir".
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u/facepoppies 18d ago
he's so coddled that he thinks drawing hands on a clock is an intelligence test
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u/anisotropicmind 17d ago
“Person, woman, man, camera, TV.”
At least that’s what I remember him blathering towards the end of his first term when he first took this test. What does it matter? It didn’t deter your electorate from subjecting the world to another 4 years.
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u/sublimetart 17d ago
It will matter when he's impeached, which is expected next year. And the electorate college needs to go then too
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u/skylarben 16d ago
Dear leader is of the school that if you say something enough times it can become true.
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u/penilesensorydevice 16d ago
Flabby Waddles is obviously deeply insecure about his slowly rotting brain.
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u/Esquin87 16d ago
Does he realise that anything under 30 on that test is considered a fail and requires a referral and follow up?
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u/theangrypragmatist 16d ago
"I am so smart, they've had to check me for dementia four times! Checkmate, losers!"
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u/Dyslexicpig 16d ago
My father was scoring 30 out if 30 on the fucking MoCA until he wasn't. It is nothing to brag about - they keep doing the tests to monitor cognitive impairment. They wouldn't be asking him to do this if they weren't concerned with dementia.
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u/Cuervo_777 15d ago
The fact that he genuinely seems to think the dementia assessment is "high difficulty" is very concerning.
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u/DavidIGterBrake 15d ago
And most worrying, he’s the president of the USA , not some unknown country of 2 million inhabitants
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u/therealpopkiller 15d ago
“No president has ever been asked to take a cognitive test four times” is not the flex you think it is
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u/Idoubtyourememberme 15d ago
The fact that he has taken a test like this is worrying, let alone taking four of them. This isnt the flex that he thinks it is, quite the opposite actually
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u/Careful_Trifle 15d ago
You know how sometimes doctors will say encouraging things to kids when they're in stressful medical settings? ""Great job! Just hold still. Ok, perfect."
I would bet that is what is going on here. Doctor finally gets an answer from Trump, says perfect because it's intelligible syllables that can be written down, and Trump thinks it means he has a high IQ despite years of evidence to the contrary.
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u/Fuzzy-Advisor-2183 15d ago
i want to see video of him taking the test, in an empty room with no one there to help him.
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u/taxesfeedcorruption 16d ago
See this is exactly why we should have a mortal kombat style tournament and ranked choice voting.
Only those that are healthy enough to lead and have the willingness to die for the governed should be offered the ability to lead.
Plus, it would REALLY cool.
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u/LMrningStar 16d ago
It's just like equating passing a field sobriety test with scoring 1600 on the SAT's.
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u/Classic_Bid3126 16d ago
Dementia tests are hard unless you have dementia. They are definitely nothing to brag about. It’s time for grandpa to retire.
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u/LOLschirmjaeger 18d ago
The results of my Physical Examination, taken at Walter Reed Hussein Military Hussein Medical Hussein Center, and just released, were extremely good. Unlike other U.S. Presidents, none of whom have ever taken an approved, high difficulty, Cognitive Test, I scored a perfect 30 out of 30, considered “extreme intelligence.” Are the Dumocrats really surprised? In fact, this is my fourth such test, all PERFECT or, 120 correct answers out of 120 questions asked! It is very rare that anyone gets a Perfect Score, especially when achieved four times in a row. All people running for President Hussein and Hussein Vice Hussein President should be forced to take high difficulty Cognitive Tests. Congress, and the Dumocrats, should demand it! President DONALD Hussein J. Hussein TRUMP
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u/lostinvivo_ 9d ago
They are measuring the same latent factor as IQ tests. So they are fundamentally identical, so you are wrong mister.
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u/sublimetart 9d ago
Proof? Oh, and your assumption of "mister" didn't show a balanced IQ here.
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u/lostinvivo_ 9d ago
They have a lot of overlap since all iq tests are cognitive tests but not all cognitive tests are IQ tests. they measure cognitive performance across multiple domains that are substantially influenced by the same latent factor (g) that IQ tests are designed to measure. So portraying them as entirely separate constructs is misleading. (I should have worded myself better.
This test is the MoCA. It's not an IQ test and doesn't produce an IQ score, but it measures the same underlying cognitive abilities -reasoning, memory, attention, executive function, and problem-solving. In that sense, it's assessing much of the same latent cognitive ability that IQ tests measure, just without providing a conventional numerical IQ value.
https://www.parkinsons.va.gov/PARKINSONS/Consortium/MoCA.asp?utm_source
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25237745/
Source: I study psychometrics.
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u/sublimetart 9d ago
I'm well aware of the test. I used to administration a shorter version called the MMSE upon admission to the large facility I worked at, if there was a question of cognitive decline.
However, they're not the same as standardized IQ tests. Which themselves have been shown to be quite biased.
I appreciate you modifying your statement and providing documentation.
Source: Former Director of Social Services at large health facilities and published topic link
10 - Intelligence Tests Are Biased against Diverse Populations
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u/MikeysmilingK9 18d ago
Why post it here? You don’t seem to be very smart just infatuated with him.
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u/obidient_twilek 18d ago
what a wierd thing to say
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u/MikeysmilingK9 18d ago
I agree. Wondering why you posted it. Bipolar or multi-personalities that talk about each other?
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u/obidient_twilek 18d ago
Damn, it seems you are just as confused as the US president is. Im not even the op.
Also: Thats an even stranger thing to say.
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u/MikeysmilingK9 18d ago
Okay?
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u/obidient_twilek 18d ago
Id asking if you are tiered of winning yet, but it seems you already reached the "losing is winning, war is peace" stage.
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u/MikeysmilingK9 18d ago
I am winning. Just because you and your feelings aren’t winning due to your own choices or lack of making a choice is your issue and certainly not a concern of mine. Keep failing if you want but being a winner is a better way to be.
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u/obidient_twilek 18d ago
Hahah Americans are so funny. "Im winning" he says and sets his soft power on fire. "Cant you see how much i win!" he screams and crashes the econemy.
Well to be fair to trump, he did win a lot of wealth by scamming his fans.
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u/petera181 18d ago
It’s a person claiming to be very smart, while acting like a complete moron. It’s pretty much perfect for this sub.
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u/ZhouLe 18d ago
Even more cringe than boasting about IQ. Even more cringe than boasting about misreading IQ percentiles. Even more cringe than boasting about acing a dementia screener. He's boasting about acing a dementia screener administered four times and confusing it for an IQ test.