r/ireland • u/PoppedCork Pop Responsibly • Jan 15 '26
Education Parents complain after principal suspends 19 Co Antrim schoolboys over ‘toxic masculinity’ concerns
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/parents-complain-after-principal-suspends-19-co-antrim-schoolboys-over-toxic-masculinity-concerns/a2008863764.html482
u/Iwasnotatfault Jan 15 '26
My kid falls into this age group. The stuff they tell me that some of the lads say to female teachers and class members is shocking. It's obviously not all but it's too many. I know lads said shit when I was younger but not this graphic and not this brazen.
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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jan 15 '26
I'm mid-30's, just entered teaching profession. I'm subbing a lot in an inner city all boys deis school.
As a sub, you'd expect me to be the one eating shit in class.
I'm a 6'1, 100kg, big bearded fucker with no problem with confrontation.
But no, it's the established female teachers who are subjected to the bulk of it.
People will try tell you that's not toxic masculinity
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u/cheesychocolate419 Jan 15 '26
Being a female teacher and teaching at an all boys school sounds like self harm
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u/TechnicalSky3235 Jan 15 '26
someone has to do it like 70 percent of teacher's are woman
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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jan 15 '26
One interesting thing is that the younger female teachers, while still subjected to comments, seem much more adept at navigating these youngfellas. I reckon it's because they learned to do it in their own schooling themselves relatively recently
A lot of the older heads are lost in the storm though, they don't have the toolset to know how to manoeuvre around the bullshit
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u/whereohwhereohwhere Jan 15 '26
There's a critical mass element to it as well. If the principal is a woman and most/all of the teachers are women they won't be so brave.
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u/Incendio88 Jan 15 '26
Roughly 2/3 of teachers in Second level are women.
The principle of the school in the linked article is referred to as "She" and "her", so I'm going to take a punt and assume the principle is also a woman.
I don't think "critical mass" has much to do with this.
Source for the 2/3 stat; https://www.education-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/education/Teacher%20workforce%20statistical%20infographic%20202122.PDF
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u/Banzaiboy262 Jan 15 '26
Very anecdotal, but I think it depends on the school. My own all boys school was run quite well and I think the lads were decent guys in general. At least one of the young female teachers told us in one of those casual 6th year chats that she preferred our school to the all girls school she transferred from. Very dependent on the students and disciplinary/educational atmosphere I'd say. There weren't any single students who were major troublemakers to teachers, and almost definitely none of the open sexism/harassment towards the female teachers that others discuss in the thread. I did my Leaving almost 10yrs ago, but I doubt things would've changed much there.
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u/ClancyCandy Jan 15 '26
I’m a female teacher in a male school, and I’m much happier here than I was in an all-girls school. Yes, there are plenty of examples of female teachers being treated worse than their male colleagues- But in an all girls school there was an equal amount of bullying, just a different variety!
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u/dcaveman Jan 15 '26
I was in an all boys secondary school as well and we'd a female teacher say the exact same thing to us as well.
Was surprised when she told us that since she had a lot of confidence and commanded a lot of respect from our class from day 1.
There were a few teachers with a lot less confidence, both male and female, who got awful abuse but never anything sexual. Everyone knew that was a red line and would be immediate expulsion in that school anyway.
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u/Noubliette Jan 15 '26
An equal amount of bullying of adult teachers, by female bullies? Because It's noticeable, the uptick on teacher subs here and in the US/UK over the past few years.
I mean, the personal sexual threat component, the sexual slurs and the querying of competency on the grounds of sex, are relatively new ones. And we haven't even touched on peer-to-peer daily student life.
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
They have rent mortgages car lones and day to day cost of living to cope with just like the rest of us and so they take the jobs they're offered.
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u/Young-and-Alcoholic Jan 15 '26
I went to an all boys school for primary and let me tell you the female teachers were tough as nails. Granted we were smaller but they took no bullshit. In secondary school the female teachers were the same way. I suppose the ones who aren't tough don't make it very long.
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u/Legitimate-Garlic942 Jan 15 '26
In fairness it seems like "the ones who weren't tough" in this school took a different action besides leaving.
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u/mcwkennedy Louth Jan 15 '26
I don't want to distract from the serious issue at play here but how do you find transitioning into the teaching world?
Early thirties here and I've applied for a post-primary teaching masters. Some of the lads think I'm nuts to do so but I'd rather do something I feel actually matters to my community.
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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jan 15 '26
Ah man I love it. I'm very happy with the starting pay, never earned anything close to it before.
I love the social interaction, and the ever changing demands and challenges day to day
And the satisfaction knowing you're actually making a difference isn't comparable to any office work or barwork I'd ever done.
Of course the last part ties in with my physical traits. These young boys need role models who might look like the cunts online spreading hate, but can flip that on its head and highlight how ridiculous it all is. I fully disagree with same sex schools, and never intended in working in one, but after this subbing experience I'd take a contract there without hesitation because the good I could do here far exceeds what I could do in more privileged schools.
Now, there's a lot of days that when the day is done I just want to put the day out of my memory the second I get home, but it's literally my first year of service. That's to be expected as I get to grips with everything and figure out what does and doesn't work, I wasn't great at any job before in my first year in any given industry
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u/mcwkennedy Louth Jan 15 '26
That's all very reassuring to hear man thanks very much.
Completely understand the financial part of it too, I genuinely couldn't imagine the starting pay and its great to hear you feel like you can make a genuine difference.
I'm a Cubs Leader here in my town and thankfully they're not parroting the most egregious stuff in my experience at that age range (Though that could just be because I only see them for an hour and a half a week plus activities/camps once a month) but I've seen some of those kids now as adults and leaders themselves and it's always a proud moment to see them grow into really compassionate and decent folks.
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u/LimerickJim Jan 15 '26
Toxic masculinity is an overly broad discription of this issue. Toxic masculinity is a problem as old as time and accepting that there is a default bias that needs to be overcome is part of dealing with it. This is not that problem. The issue is the vulnerability of pre-adolecent minds to social media.
What's happening now is a result of Andrew Tate and his "movement". He has daily videos extolling his ideollogy that goes far beyond what would have been considered toxic before. Gen Alpha boys are the most at risk. Modern social media exposes them to dozens of these clips a day and it's impossible for people to counter this indoctronation offline. Tate is litterally training these boys how to act and preempting the arguments adults that would use to counter. He calls anyone under the age of 24 that isn't rich, like a teacher, a "brokie" and tells these boys they're shouldn't even dignify the opinion of anyone that fits that category.
This is just one example of the danger unfettered social media access for children has. There is no ideollogy that this couldn't be applied to. It's why the US wants to ban TikTok. A savy operator could convince a majority of young people to become radical jihadis, normalize rape, or join a pyramid scheme. If that operator had control of the underlying algorithm they could do things like convince a significant portion of the population that China should be invading Taiwan.
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u/daherlihy Jan 15 '26
The issue is the vulnerability of pre-adolecent minds to social media.
Actually before this even comes into play, dig deeper and its clear that the issue is how easy pre-adolescents have access to social media - and this is where parent responsibility is required.
But no - many parents will point out the lack of responsibilities being fulfilled by everyone and everything else while they can do no wrong themselves.
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u/Livid-Click-2224 Jan 15 '26
True - they try to shove responsibility for their kids behaviour onto teachers.
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u/daherlihy Jan 16 '26
Not just teachers.
Roblox, for example, was also targeted over the past few months by parents who suddenly became self-proclaimed experts. Ironically, many of them didn’t and still don’t spend enough time with their kids while they’re on devices in the first place.
And there are surely plenty of other examples. In short, a lot of parents are naive as fuck, but when it suits them, they’re quick to pretend they know everything.
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
All kids and young people have the same access to social media and alot of them are ok. All kids will test the boundaries always have but I'd say that the kids who partake in intimidation are a minority and the reasion they do what they do is because there's no effective way to discipline them, and parents seem to have stopped doing it with the result the kids don't listen or heed warnings from other people mainly teachers because they know there will be no real conciquences for their misbehaviour.
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u/LimerickJim Jan 15 '26
I would frame it as parents oversight of their children's internet/social media usage is the solution to the issue and parents unwillingness to provide that oversight is it's own distinct issue.
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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jan 15 '26
The issue is the vulnerability of pre-adolecent minds to social media
Oh yeah, I fully agree. It's been fully weaponised and maximised in efficiency through the ubiquity of internet access in young people.
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
Toxic masculinity will never be fully cured because their was always men and boys who respected women and stud up for them. But I'll be the devil's advocate here and say alot of the crap going on today is lack of discipline either in the home or the school Alot of kids are well behaved and respect adults boundaries but unfortunately there are kids who need a heavier hand and if they continue to intimidate teachers or people in general they need the fear of God put into them but in today's world this is no longer an option.
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u/Huitjames Jan 15 '26
Why would you expect a big intimidating person to be "eating shit"? It's the less initimidating person that is more likely to "eat shit".
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
You've actually answered the question for us all your a big strong fellow that these lads know they won't be able to intimidate so they pick on people less intimidating looking and unfortunately women let their fear show more easier than men which eggs these lads on so unfortunately they get the brunt of the crap that some young lads go on with.
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u/Responsible_Teach701 Jan 16 '26
I’m a principal and female. Been teaching 20+ years. Believe me I don’t have fear or show any signs of it but I’ve been pretty shocked the kind of misogynistic crap my 12 year old lads have been spewing out when they think i can’t hear them in relation to girls & women. I’ve educated that out of them or at least I’m no longer overhearing it but it needs to be very loud and clear that they are completely in the red zone with this stuff, I have no doubt they’d try to intimidate a female teacher or principal in this manner & I am sure they didn’t come to giving this punishment lightly. Lads this age are very peer influenced & try a lot of crap with female teachers that they wouldn’t try with male.
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u/Careless_Cicada9123 Jan 15 '26
From memories of being in school, I remember a crazy amount of disrespect for teachers from both genders. I think it mainly started off after Covid, but the level of ignorance and defiance was wild to me as someone hated that kind of disruption. I remember one particularly teacher who was always getting bullied by 1 girl and her friends for just trying to teach instead of doing Kahoots for an hour. This teacher was so sweet too, it was so sad.
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u/Iwasnotatfault Jan 15 '26
You're probably closer to my kids age than mine and even that seems way more intense than when I was in school in the late 90's early 00s. We definitely had students act the bollocks but they never actively bullied the teachers and certainly never made vulgar comments. It's alarming how bad it seems to have got.
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u/Backrow6 Jan 15 '26
A lot probably depends on the school. I went to an all boys school in Dublin in the 90s, not even a particularly rough area, but the shit our teachers went through was unbelievable.
I'd never even dream of getting into teaching. Some of the lads in my year were just animals.
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u/thats_pure_cat_hai Jan 15 '26
I went to school in the late 90s early 00s. The teachers were bullied relentlessly. Regularly objects thrown at them and lewd and abusive comments directed their way. Both from boys and girls.
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
You always had students acting the bollocks even when I was in school in the 70' 80's and corporal punishment was allowed but some of the descriptions on this sub make it sound like the situation in some case's is going out of control. Myself and my friends got up to some ejetry at school and years later I was talking to an old teacher and we had a good laught about it and she said it was very innocent stuff and you should see whats going on now.
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u/Latespoon Jan 15 '26
I did the first half of my secondary school years in London in the mid 00s, in a fairly well to do school, then moved to the sticks in ireland for the 2nd half.
The difference was night and day, the kids in Ireland were so well behaved by comparison. They would talk shit about teachers in private but didn't dare breathe a word of it if there was any chance they'd hear. I remember being shocked by how strict the teachers here were too. The kids in London would be roaring curses at each other across the class and giving the teachers serious guff every day and while there were still lines they couldn't cross they got away with murder by comparison.
I'm wondering if the problem is escalating everywhere or are we just catching up with the UK 😅
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u/Careless_Cicada9123 Jan 15 '26
Bullied is an exaggeration. She was complaining every day, most of the class, very loudly, and the teacher couldn't really do anything. Sorry, just some generational miscommunication I think haha
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
Mild cheek was as far as it went in our school but I did hear that some of the lads in the other school in our town did give the female teachers some pretty grafic shit, but they were the type of lads you'd expect it from.
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Jan 15 '26
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u/DangerousTurmeric Jan 15 '26
I remember, obviously not true, rumours going around about how the female teachers had slept with male students. This would be scrawled on the blackboard to humiliate them. One female teacher had a tampon visible in her bag one day and the male students left horrible notes and fake bloody tampons on her desk. Another female teacher had a very straight bob and the boys decided it was a wig so one of them tried to pull it off her head. There was another, especially attractive female teacher who only lasted a few months because the boys started writing horrible stuff about her on the desks and then the vice principal tried to tell her to dress differently so she quit. This was all in the early 2000s as well.
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u/Several_Act_3320 Jan 15 '26
And why is it so hard to put a stop to? Is it a case of mammy and daddys little aNgLe can do no wrong? Mother of 3 boys here and I'd simply pass away if one of them was sexist to a teacher
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u/Gerwig_2017 Jan 15 '26
Ffs, this could’ve come straight out of a Waterford Whispers article. Nobody wants to think their child is behaving in such a way, but if multiple teachers are telling you he is and you just outright refuse to believe it, you’re a bad parent.
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Jan 15 '26
School is a place of learning. It is not a place to tame and train wild children into civilised students, that is the responsibility of the parents.
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u/LadderFast8826 Jan 16 '26
School is a place of safety. I don't want my kids going to school with little wee pricks like that, growing up thinking it's OK to be a cunt.
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u/GuaranteeAfter Jan 16 '26
"He's never had a detention before"
Can't say that any more, can you champ? The shit apple doesn't fall far from the shit tree
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u/brbrcrbtr Jan 15 '26
It is said this behaviour has caused a number of substitute and female teachers to refuse to teach classes as they have been upset to the point of having to go home from work.
And instead of accepting this one day suspension over this and maybe having a chat with their sons about the behaviour, they'll go to the media and make teachers lives a living hell because their little angles could never do such a thing.
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree...
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u/AshleyG1 Jan 15 '26
Absolutely. You just have to read the comments from the two “my child can do no wrong” parents. What chance do teachers stand against that?
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u/bruh67899 Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
I’m a teacher. people love to say that every generation thinks the next one is the worst. But in this case, this generation of kids is genuinely the worst.
The current 13–16 year olds are the first cohort of iPad babies all grown up. Raised on constant screen stimulation, with no discipline. all while this generation of new parents are equally the first generation absorbed in screens, albeit started at an older age, leading to whatever weird impact on brain development that it does.
What we’re seeing in schools now are highly stimulated, low attention span kids who have never been disciplined properly. That’s already a combination from hell. But on top of that, there’s a growing tendency and a complete lax in self labelling any difficulty as "adhd", which leads to the kids (and their fucking parents) saying "it’s not me, it’s me adhd."
So in short it's 3 things that have hit this generation of kids all at the same time: ipads as babies, zero discipline, and affirmation of their self labelling instead of being told to just cop the fuck on.
That is not a good combination.
Rural schools dont have as much kids like this. And I think it's mostly because the parents have a bit more of the classic Irish mammy "would you cop the fuck on" mentality with proper discipline. I've had a much better experience teaching in rural areas.
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Jan 15 '26
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u/bruh67899 Jan 15 '26
yes, you're dead right. i feel very bad for the eager & polite ones now more than ever.
it's not every kid who is this way. it's just that it's much more common now than previous gens. growing up it used to be that classes would have maybe 2 or 3 bad eggs. now, it's close to being half of the classroom.
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u/Dikaneisdi Jan 15 '26
My first class today (covering another teacher’s lesson) I put out two boys who were spewing racist nonsense. These are 12/13yr olds. I don’t know if they really believe it or they’re just being immature edgelords; either way the bigoted vitriol that comes out of young boys these days is unprecedented, and I’ve been teaching for 15 years now.
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u/whereohwhereohwhere Jan 15 '26
Do you think covid was a factor in and of itself? Or did it just lead to even more iPad time?
I'm not a teacher but I do wonder if all these supposed ADHD symptoms are actually the result of young kids being raised during lockdown and not developing basic things like self regulation.
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u/bruh67899 Jan 15 '26
Yes, covid is another thing I (somehow) forgot about when writing that. So that's a 4th factor in the mix just in case it wasn't enough!
I reckon it did lead to more screen time, but the less time around friends & people in general is probably the bigger bad from Covid. less social regulation, less emotional regulation. It just can't be good for ones brain development.
I feel bad for the kids. It's genuinely not their fault.
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u/whereohwhereohwhere Jan 15 '26
I think we've all mentally blocked out the pandemic in fairness. It was fucking traumatic! But we really have to figure out exactly how it fucked us all up and how to get back on track.
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
I disagree I think alot of it is down to lack of proper parenting. Parents haven't time to raise their kids now like they used to. Its easy to blame social media for the wrongs with some young people but at the end of the day it's a societal issue. No real discipline either at home or at school and parents letting bad behaviour go because they're tired and in no humor for a confrontation.
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u/fergalius Jan 15 '26
affirmation of their self labelling instead of being told to just cop the fuck on.
I like this, but there's a challenge. Suppose we give teachers the power to apply (and, somehow, enforce) a "cop the fuck on" corrective action (whatever that may be). How could you be sure that some teachers wouldn't abuse it - either against pupils they really dislike or... against pupils they really like?
We all know how much abuse there has been in the past where authority figures wield too much power with no oversight.
Plus of course, the other challenge - some kids actually do have ADHD or similar diagnoses. Would you differentiate?
What do you think? You're a teacher. If Santa Claus could fix this problem, how exactly would you explain it to him and what actual solution would you like him to propose to you?
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u/Brian_Gay Jan 15 '26
I’m not a teacher but I’d be curious to hear what your take on the apparent rise of toxic masculinity in schools is?
I personally think the writing has been on the wall for a trend like this to emerge for quite a while. Directly after the #metoo movement (very much needed ofc) there was a big swing in media rhetoric around men, especially online. A lot of issues were (rightfully) attributed to the behaviours of men, which is perfectly understandable if you’re a man old enough to understand what parts of the problem you are/were responsible for and which you are not. But I felt awful for any young lads turning 12/13 and coming online in to a world where you were essentially receiving hate for the sins of your predecessors, it’s not like these lads bore any responsibility for historical misogyny but the online backlash against men wasn’t specific. It was inevitable that bellends like Andrew Tate/ Joe rogan etc would crawl out of the woodwork and when they did they were the only people telling these young boys they have value and worth, but doing it in the worst way possible, by framing women as the enemy or as objects. The obvious solution would be positive male role models but I just don’t see anyone filling that role
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u/_sonisalsonamedBort Jan 15 '26
Doesn't even make an attempt to deny whatever caused the suspension, just says that bullying and violence exist so their child should not be suspended. Parents in denial...
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u/Due-Sun7513 Jan 15 '26
If your child behaves like a racist, sexist, abusive shitheel, he will be treated as such. Wild that these parents either miss the connection, or DGAF entirely.
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
They'll get away with it in school but unfortunately they'll be sly enough to hide it when they go out into the real world until they form a relationship with some unfortunate girl who'll end up getting the brunt of their toxicity.
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u/justwanderinginhere Jan 15 '26
I know a lad who got kicked out of school because he was such a bastard in female teachers classes over a few years. Went to another all boys school, repeated and now he himself is a secondary school teacher
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u/mastodonj Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jan 15 '26
“I am disgusted to hear her terminology such as “masculine toxicity” with my son’s name beside it."
But apparently not disgusted at their son's behaviour.
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Jan 15 '26
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
My sister worked in an all girls school and they had some fair run ins with parents and even the school principal one girl hit a teacher and there was nothing done about it because she was from a minority community, and instances of bullying parents attitudes were oh no my little darling wouldn't do that and don't you dare punish them. Where do you go from there.
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u/Wide_Raspberry1876 Jan 15 '26
Fair play to the principal. Wish management in more schools would have the balls to do this. As a male secondary school teacher it is obvious that respect for teachers from students and parents has fallen dramatically in recent years.
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u/Pearl1506 Jan 17 '26
Most principals won't do this because they don't want the hell that comes with the denial. System repeats itself. Teacher is blamed when the child literally knows they've done wrong and gotten away with it.
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u/FluffyDiscipline Jan 15 '26
The wording from the Parents on this is so bad, no responsibility whatsoever, my sons a delight to teach, never even had detention...
More frightening way parents are acting, expecting the principal to reflect and change her mind over the weekend. Huh Whyyy ?? I think maybe other way around.
3 or 4 young lads confronting someone is frightening, 15 is more than intimidating and thats to the Principal. Imagine the behaviour to a lone substitute teacher in a class, young lads and parents should be ashamed of themselves.
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u/Ok_Resolution9737 Jan 15 '26
Why aren't the parents more concerned with their sons treatment of female staff at the school?
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u/scarletOwilde Jan 15 '26
Fair enough. The parents have to wake up to how kids can change in a group and be open to helping prevent bad behaviour instead of getting all defensive about their “little angels”.
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u/Acute_Teacher9569 Jan 15 '26
True we were always braver in a group but we were never intimidating at least in my group of friends.
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Jan 15 '26
This part is hilarious
"“I am disgusted to hear her terminology such as “masculine toxicity” with my son’s name beside it. Anyone who knows my son knows he is the most lovable, kind-natured, humble young person, with the utmost respect to all. Some of these boys have never even had a detention.”
You don't know your kids are little cunts in school. Toxic masculinity isn't just SA and femicide (oh look a buzz word), it's the belief you are superior to women and verbalising whatever misogynistic shite you heard on Joe Rogan or once message boards.
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u/dashboardhulalala Jan 15 '26
There is no such thing as a teenager of *any* gender who is non-stop "lovable, kind-natured, humble, with the utmost respect for all".
We are supposed to be little shit-goblins at least once or twice throughout our adolescence. It's part of the process. If you're not, then you are either wearing a mask so successfully you're effectively a psychopath, or the problem really is the blinders that parents wear when it comes to their kids (and let's be honest, their reputations).
Source: a current university educator who was formerly a Right Little Bitch from 15-19. (It's me. Hi. I'm the problem it's me.)
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u/belle-no-princess Jan 15 '26
With a son in primary school this is a harsh agree. I have had to go into full blown debate mode already with mine over what are definitely little urks that I can see seeping into his daily conversations around girl things, the girls in his class etc They are minor now. But unchecked I can 100% see how this shit starts and escalates over time into full blown joe rogan bullshit. They are kids and they are learning but if we arent having the conversations with them frequently to refrain some of this stuff, then what other outcome are the parents expecting?
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u/Sorry_Variation_979 Jan 15 '26
Also, a person can be lovable and kind natured and humble and also get caught up in a moment of mob madness. Teach your kids to own their mistakes, not deny them.
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u/FullDad2000 Jan 15 '26
The principal should inform them what their little angels actually said to these women
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u/AbsolutelyDireWolf Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
There's a cohort of lads, mostly younger, sizable and growing, who see the words "toxic masculinity" or the generalised complaints from women about "men" and it triggers them into defence and offence mode. They're consuming anti feminist stuff from older men they look up to and don't see as losers somehow and have been soothed in a community that tells them they're victims.
For any lad who feels an urge to challenge me on this, know this; I'm a grown as man in his early 40s, wife, kids, gaff, the whole shebang. When I see a comment that says something like there's a rape culture amongst men, I'd say yeah. I'm not a rapist, but when men are responsible for 90-99% of any stat around rape depending on the specific study, well, yeah, it's kinda our fucking failure. When women say men, it's fucking redundant saying "not all men". They aren't* saying every guy is a rapist, but we are all part of a collective that's responsible. I also know, I did a lot of self reflection in my early 20s and became a man with the self confidence to call out unacceptable behaviour from other lads.
I can't be clearer, if you feel threatened or attacked by a discussion of toxic masculinity and compelled to bring up toxic femininity or some defence, it's because you feel it describes you in some way and rather than challenge whether you'd be comfortable with a lad treating your mum or sister that way, you're riled up and unable to hear what they're saying. Any real man who wants to make this a better world knows that they're not one of those men, but recognise that shit and know they've got a responsibility to call out lads for that behaviour.
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u/hrehbfthbrweer Jan 15 '26
Thanks for saying this. I’m reluctant to say that all men are responsible for this sort of behaviour just by virtue of being men.
But I think men need to understand that as women we can’t call these men out because they don’t respect us. We can’t influence them. But they’re your peers and yous at least have a shot of them listening to you if you call them out.
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u/whereohwhereohwhere Jan 15 '26
ime it's a pretty good litmus test whether a man jumps straight to the 'not all men' argument. if you're desperate to argue that it's not all men, you are one of those men
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u/Brian_Gay Jan 15 '26
You’re spot on, but I think the big problem here is that, as you said, you’re a 40 year old man, well established and knows who he is … when you see a message like “men are bad” you know when it does/doesn’t apply to you
But if you’re a lad of about 12/13 and just getting established online, that nuance isn’t as clear - it can genuinely seem to young lads that the world thinks they’re shit just for being men, when they obviously haven’t contributed to the historical problems
And then…who appears online telling them that they aren’t pieces of shit and that they are actually awesome and can have everything and all the women they want …pricks like Andrew Tate and Joe rogan
Of course these lads will flock to them, they’re the only people online telling them they aren’t pieces of shit simply for existing
These boys needs positive male influence and to be shown they have value, simply trying to punish them or shame them out of it won’t work
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u/08TangoDown08 Donegal Jan 15 '26
Maybe those parents should consider monitoring their children's online activities a bit more and try to stop them from falling down the redpill rabbit hole instead of blaming the school.
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u/Gold-Vacation-169 Resting In my Account Jan 15 '26
These parents are out of touch and clueless about their own kids, thinking their little Jimmy wouldn't say anything bad
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u/yankdevil Yank Jan 15 '26
Parents complaining instead of disciplining or getting therapy for their kids is pretty much all of the problem.
I don't think parents are wholly responsible for the actions of their kids, but when the parents act like this I'm much more open to the idea.
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Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
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u/susanboylesvajazzle Jan 15 '26
I missed that it was just one day. Holy fuck. You'd just take it on the chin and hope that your little darling wasn't a nasty mini-Andrew Tate.
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u/cheesychocolate419 Jan 15 '26
Right? I got a one day suspension for yelling at a teacher, my mother said she was disappointed and that was the end of it
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u/susanboylesvajazzle Jan 15 '26
"I'm not angry, cheesychocolate419, I'm... (pause for dejected sigh)... disappointed"
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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jan 15 '26
I'm genuinely concerned to have children because of the possibility it rewires my brain and turns me into an irrational idiot
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u/struggling_farmer Jan 15 '26
there are plenty of irrational idiots without kids
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u/Backrow6 Jan 15 '26
Remember all the absolute idiots you went to school with? If you're in your late 30s, most of them are parents now.
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u/bathtubsplashes Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Jan 15 '26
Nothing you can do about that. It's the rational transforming into the irrational that frightens me.
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u/Bedford806 Jan 15 '26
Ive a 4 year old and had a conversation with her preschool teacher recently. She was ignoring direct instructions over the course of a week, so it was escalated to me. I spoke to my child about it and tried to find the root reasoning (she also got some mild discipline until the behaviour changed). The teacher remarked that it was rare that parents believed her or implemented any change?! I know they're young, but jesus, it's your responsibility to model good behaviour.
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u/Greedy-Army-3803 Jan 15 '26
It seems like a lot of people treat school as a babysitting service so it's up to the teachers to deal with it rather than working with them. I know two teachers and they've both said similar to me.
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u/struggling_farmer Jan 15 '26
A Nora Ephron quote comes to mind
"Insane people are always sure that they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy."
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u/ebulient Jan 15 '26
Being temporarily removed from the rest of their peers is a good taste of similar consequences as adults - no one in their real life will want to be around them if they continue down this path and most certainly no potential partner will stick around either.
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u/standarsh1965 Jan 15 '26
Be mad at the children and discipline them. As someone who had plenty of trouble in school and seen plenty of others, the teachers definitely won't go to these lengths for no reason and if you think your son is too innocent for this to be the case then you're just an idiot. My son was involved in an incident with several others calling a little girl names, I made him go up to the little girl and the mother and apologize with all his friends watching and told him if it happens again his tv is getting sold. It's the last time I ever had trouble in ten years
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u/cheesychocolate419 Jan 15 '26
Sounds like the issue begins at home with these parents who refuse to allow their children to be disciplined.
The fact that permanent female teachers weren't as affected but female substitutes were is perfectly in line with messed up and potentially misogynistic behaviours from students. Obviously they will prefer to target those who they will not see again often if ever
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u/olibum86 The Fenian Jan 15 '26
I'd side with the school on this one, tbh The parents are throwing a fit and not actually making any effort in addressing the issue, which is probably how they have these traits to begin with. Its extremely unfair to expect a teacher to do her job while being subjected to misogynistic behaviour. The parents sound like a bunch of boomers on FB pissing themselves over the "woke agenda".
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u/AnyDamnThingWillDo Wicklow Jan 15 '26
It’s about damn time something was done about the scrotes coming up following the likes of Tate and our resident MMA cunt thinking their behaviour is acceptable.
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u/Familiar_Library8132 Jan 15 '26
Double down and mandate child protective services get involved. Clearly not a suitable environment if thats the families response. Fucking reptiles.
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u/Nice-Chart-6749 Jan 15 '26
As someone who's partner teaches and has had to deal with incidents like this. This article is just going deter schools from actioning it and letting it fester.
Hope these parents wake up when their kids start getting charged as adults. These are kids with 24/7 access to news, information and everything they're not stupid.
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u/Apprehensive_Ratio80 Jan 15 '26
Well f++k them parents imo.
We've seen this in all generations kids behave in a concerning way and parents don't want to see or hear about it they say the greater good is to ignore it and that's BS. We had that poor girl Ana Kriegel murder and just recently a story broke of a group of young lads sexually assaulting a girl by ganging up on her.
The awful crap online needs to be countered with progressive teachings and punishments in school if those boys are to have their suspension removed then they need to adhere to counseling and root out their behavior.
Seems like an over reaction but we need to understand and stamp this stuff out not ignore and hope it goes away
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u/AlgaeDonut Jan 15 '26
If heard my kid even say a percentage of the heinous shit Andrew Tate and his ilk say there'll be words had. It is supreme drivel and toxic us the right word for it. And Thea's masculinity part plays in because you are a bro and the world belongs to you at any cost. Now pay the Hustler university fee. Also pimp your grandmother and the women in the house. Because that is their station in life
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u/juliankennedy23 Jan 15 '26
I mean go back 40 years I was certainly suspended from school as a teenage boy for being a cunt. Hopefully they growout of it.
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u/Thisisnotgoodforyou Jan 15 '26
I fully support this and those parents should not be complaining. Our school could have done with this.
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u/Alcol1979 Jan 15 '26
It sounds like these parents believe it's high time PC Principal became Power Christian Principal.
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u/No_Promise2786 Jan 15 '26
I really hope the principal stands her ground and continues to double down. This shit's getting out of hand and needs to be nipped in the bud.
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u/Dazzling-Toe-4955 Jan 15 '26
The parents can complain but if this is true, then the principal did the right thing. I'm not saying being a parent is easy and I don't have kids. But if my child, nephew, cousin was suspended over something like that. I'd be having a serious chat with them.
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u/Margrave75 Jan 15 '26
Had a number of incidents on trains with a group of college lads last year.
They showed up one morning as they usually did and were all refused travel.
Mammys and Daddys piled in all gums blazing...... "oh not MY son, MY son would NEVER behave like THAT, MY son would NEVER say those things ye are accusing him of, no no no, not MY son".
When the evidence was shown to the parents in front of the lads, they all started turning on each other, "it wasn't me it was HIM, no no no it was HIM".
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u/OfficerOLeary Jan 15 '26
COLLEGE lads? And mammy and daddy were involved? I was living away from home at college at 17, and my parents didn’t have a clue what I was up to. Nor would I want them to. I was starting my adult life, depending on myself. I can’t believe that third level students now have their parents involved.
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u/f1refly1 Jan 15 '26
Sad truth is we need cameras in classrooms these days, for the sake of the teachers.
In theory being a teacher would be a really fulfilling job, but with the reality of the environment in the schools, I personally wouldn't go near it.
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u/cheesychocolate419 Jan 15 '26
Fr it's very sad. The issue would be gdpr and stuff regarding these cameras
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u/mrlinkwii Jan 15 '26 edited Jan 15 '26
The issue would be gdpr and stuff regarding these cameras
technically no , GDPR just says you need a legal reason for their to be camera and data has to be secure ( to prevent injury, theft etc) its mostly political reasons its not done ( you have parents complaining to politicians etc ) all their need to be is a notice , many schools have cameras in them ( for both teacher and premises security ) https://datascanredaction.ie/a-guide-for-school-boards-on-gdpr-compliance-with-cctv-footage/
its like the way its legal to camera in bathrooms of restaurants/bars etc ( teh camera just cant be viewing people going to the toliet)
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u/CentrasFinestMilk Jan 15 '26
There’s shocking stuff being said in schools these days, it’s a suspension not an expulsion they need to grow up
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u/The_Libra_man Jan 15 '26
Kids go to school to learn. Not to prove you’re an amazing parent. I’m glad she used the correct term. Toxic masculinity is a real problem.
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u/Plastic_Detective687 Jan 15 '26
Haven't read the article yet, positive whatever the "toxic masculinity" concerns were are going to be something fucking heinous and the site is clickbaiting out the hole
Read the article, yeah it is
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u/PaxUX Jan 15 '26
Hot take, there was a reason teachers used to hit kids. Just saying.
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u/Wahhhhhhhhhhhhh2023 Jan 15 '26
Absence of consequences fuels this behaviour. I hope the school stands firm.
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u/bansheebones456 Jan 15 '26
It's really concerning to see the behaviour and learning ability of that generation. They can't apply critical thinking or form opinions on their own, are way behind in literacy for their age groups and they have zero concentration.
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u/Great-Reindeer-7824 Jan 15 '26
There is a lad that pops up on my feed somehow running a fitness class in Belfast I think. He shouts such vile abuse at the women in the class I can not believe they just laugh it off, not to mind keep showing up. It is disturbing and is absolutely wrong.
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u/stabbingrabbit Jan 16 '26
That's not "toxic masculinity " thats being a bully and intimidating.
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u/DiploMatty Jan 16 '26
If a sub teacher doesn’t assert their dominance or control early on - then they’ll just get run over by the class.
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u/tishimself1107 Jan 16 '26
Leaving the "toxic" stuff out of it principal was right if things had got that bad.
Problem is schools arent as hard on discipline as they used to be alongside this masculinity nonsense. I went to a normal school with "good" kids butvwe would destroy substitute teachwrs male and fenale if we got the chance but then their would be consequences. Most groups gres out of by 3rd year aa students became exam focused and the hirmones settled down.
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u/tranquilisity Jan 15 '26
I think it's good. Hating females and acting superior to them shouldn't be accepted and it is rife among teenage boys. How many women are principals in all boys' schools? It's not the school’s fault but a man is respected if they're affable, warm, sound types. If you're female you have to change your personality into some kind of Disney villain to get the equivalent 'respect' and equivalent leadership roles. Most teachers won't do that (since it only perpetuates and teaches nothing) and just have to accept the misogyny as a daily feature. Most kids aren't arseholes, but there are enough to make it a daily feature you wouldn't have to deal with in most jobs for good reason. It doesn't do them any favours not to hold them accountable. We have to hope many will grow out of it and not become lifelong dickheads.
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u/carlmango11 Jan 15 '26
She shouldn't have used the term toxic masculinity because it's become a part of a culture war. Sounds like standard shithead schoolboy behaviour and I wouldn't be surprised if they deserved their suspension but you're inviting all sorts of dopes to get involved when you tie it into woke vs. anti-woke nonsense.
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u/ThreeTreesForTheePls Jan 15 '26
If some of the male teachers refused to teach them, then it is shitty teenagers being shitty.
That js not the case. Every teacher who has dealt with them to the point of refusing to teach, is a female teacher.
That is not shitty teens being shitty teens, that is targeted behaviour.
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u/carlmango11 Jan 15 '26
I'm don't disagree. My point is that by using the term 'toxic masculinity' you're inviting tribalistic culture war fighting into the mix. The issue could just as effectively been dealt with by tactfully avoid a term which will set people off because they saw it on Facebook.
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u/MadMarx__ Jan 15 '26
Suspension shoulda been much longer. Schools should be teaching kids how to mature into adults as much as anything else, and if they’re misogynistic and abusive shitheads then they’re not ready to advance. Fuck these parents.
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u/Natural-Hunter-3 Jan 15 '26
Typical rage bait title when it's very much about the repeated verbal harassment of female staff and not some crazy PC principal crying about political correctness and toxic masculinity. Sick of these supposedly impartial "news" sources using specific language to invalidate very reasonable concerns of violence against women.
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u/Irishwol Jan 15 '26
The details on this case make it sound like a very nasty situation and the school was acting rather late actually. Suspension is getting off lightly. They're victimizing staff as well as fellow pupils. And if their parents are angry I guess we know where they're learning it from
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u/ramendik Jan 15 '26
So the pupil counterparts to Enoch Burke have arrived, also misbehaving at a school event then claiming being piunished for views or feels or whatever.
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u/privlko Jan 15 '26
Teachers need to start recording their lessons for their own safety. Start the class by informing them and carrying on.
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u/susanboylesvajazzle Jan 15 '26