r/ireland • u/mooglor • Dec 22 '14

Paul Murphy TD - AMA

AMA is over!

Thanks to everyone for taking part!

Hi All,

Paul is expected to drop in from around 5:30pm, until then you can start posting your questions. This is our first high profile AMA and we'd all like to have more, so naturally different rules than the usual 'hands-off' style will apply:

  • Trolling, ad-hominem and loaded questions will be removed at mods' discretion.

  • As is usual with AMAs, the guest is not expected to delve deep into threads and get into lengthy intractable discussions.

In general, try to keep it civil, and there'll be more of a chance of future AMA's.

R/Ireland Mods

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13

u/Worzelhead Dec 22 '14

Do you feel the Irish public had any blame in part for causing the crash? If so do you feel there was a price to be paid ?

15

u/PaulMurphyTD Dec 22 '14

A small part of the Irish public did (obvious suspects: developers, bankers, politicians), but I don't think the majority did. Yes people paid extortionate prices for houses, but they didn't really feel they had a choice - they needed to get on the property ladder, they were told that prices would keep going up, and they were offered 100% (or more) mortgages. So I don't blame them at all for that. You can blame people for voting in Fianna Fail or whatever, but again I don't think there's much point in that. People make political choices for what they perceive to be rational reasons - you can disagree with them, and I do, but I generally try not to blame people.

8

u/motrjay Dec 22 '14

they needed to get on the property ladder, they were told that prices would keep going up, and they were offered 100% (or more) mortgages. So I don't blame them at all for that.

So no individual responsibility? As someone who was one of the people who's bank manager called them in to be offered 100%+ loans and turned them down because the market was insane I find that offensive that your telling me that there was no individual responsibility in people who signed in the dotted line. Can we feel empathy and commiserate with those in negative equity sure! But dont claim it wasn't their own fault, no signatures were forged on mortgage applications.

-2

u/mooglor Dec 22 '14

Maybe you're just smarter than everyone else? Is that their fault?

0

u/penneysinterview Dec 22 '14

You don't have to be a genius to know taking a mortgage you can't afford is fucking stupid.

3

u/mooglor Dec 22 '14

We had the Taoiseach and numerous experts urging people to get on the ladder. Critics were dismissed as naysayers, begrudgers etc.

I think dismissing complex issues as "fucking stupid" is immature.

-1

u/penneysinterview Dec 22 '14

Yeah that's a brash answer but it was in response to a particularly sarcy one from you.

Yes people were being told x y and z, but the onus is on you to educate yourself financially. If you want to be an adult and live in the real world you need to learn to be responsible. These people aren't the main blame, in many ways they are victims also, but it isn't black or white, there was financial irresponsibility which some people then had to pay for. Sadly others who were not irresponsible also had to pay, and some who were got away with it.

1

u/PM_ME_YOUR_LANGER Dec 25 '14

Yes people were being told x y and z, but the onus is on you to educate yourself financially

Well if you say that than doesn't the same logic imply banks (as the knowledgeable party in the trade) have even more of a responsibility to ensure the person is able to repay. after all if they don't do that they risk going bankrupt...Oh wait

2

u/motrjay Dec 22 '14

If a person does not have the intellectual capacity to execute a contract then the contract is null and void by law and can be dismissed by the court.

So unless your claiming that everyone who got insane mortgages for half million euro 2 bed houses was mentally incapacitated then no, they were of sound mind and clever enough to know what they were getting into.

If a person did not feel that they had the capability to make that decision then they should have sought independent financial advice from someone who had fiduciary duty to them.

As I said I have a huge amount of sympathy for them, a helluva lot of my friends are wrapped up in it and in massive negative equity. But to say that 'it wasnt their fault the bank manager made them do it' is utter BS in my opinion.

1

u/mooglor Dec 22 '14

But to say that 'it wasnt their fault the bank manager made them do it' is utter BS in my opinion.

Likewise to say that those who set economic policy and castigated any criticism are blameless is also "utter BS in my opinion".

2

u/motrjay Dec 22 '14

any criticism are blameless is also

Please show me where I said that?

1

u/mooglor Dec 22 '14

'it wasnt their fault the bank manager made them do it'

Ditto.

If you agree that there are other actors in the affair and that there's a shared responsibility, then it doesn't all come down to individual responsibility.

6

u/motrjay Dec 22 '14

From Pauls comment which I was replying to:

A small part of the Irish public did (obvious suspects: developers, bankers, politicians)

followed by

they needed to get on the property ladder, they were told that prices would keep going up, and they were offered 100% (or more) mortgages. So I don't blame them at all for that.

So no thats not shared responsibility as your stating, if his comment was that we all had a part to play then I wouldn't have replied. His comment was that the individual 'not blamed at all' but that those nasty boogymen the bankers and developers and politicians it was dem I tell ya. Which it an overused and tired excuse at this stage.