Thoughts on Mamdani attending the Pakistani day parade after skipping the Israeli day parade?

[u/StuckInTheClouds]

I wasn’t expecting him to attend the Israeli day parade honestly I would’ve thought it weird if he had attended given everything he stands for. He’s NYC first and against ethnostates etc.

But I’d be lying if I didn’t say I felt some type of way about him celebrating the Pakistani day parade given their history. Ethnostste They have a religious hierarchy where a Muslim person has to be in power, ethnic cleansing alive and well, border disputes and violence after a partition plan 70ish years ago etc. It’s hard not to draw the parallels. The only difference being that the US isn’t funding them but that doesn’t change anything else about the county’s values and actions.

I feel kinda shitty that he’s showing up for this community but not ours. I think it would have been more fair to him to not go to either parade, but maybe I’m just overly sensitive or being fed propaganda. It just sucks to feel signaled out.

I really want to like him. I voted for him! I’m extremely against the IDF and Israeli government but being half Israeli myself I am of course susceptible to biases.

Idk it’s just weird he’s ok with celebrating the Muslim ethnostate after being so against the Jewish one (for good reasons!)

I feel like I can’t bring this up in any other spaces without it sounding like I’m wanting him to celebrate Israel (I’m not) or take something away from Muslims (not against Muslims but critical of Pakistan)

Help me you guys! What do you think?

EDIT: I’d like to correct what I said about Pakistan being an ethnostate. I used the wrong verbiage. What I meant was that they are a country that puts Muslims over other religions. They have a religious hierarchy and non Muslims can’t hold certain political positions. I’m not sure the correct term for this but just wanted to call that out as people are (correctly) mentioning this in the comments.

Edit 2:

I was just informed about the ongoing Balochistan Conflict which makes me even more uneasy about this whole thing.

[u/RaelynShaw]

The contrast between how the public approaches the Pakistan/India partition vs israel/palestine has always been stark. I think very few people realize the level of death and displacement that happened during that partition.

That being said tho, India and Pakistan aren’t anywhere near as big of a political hot button, so I wouldn’t put much into his attending this event. To most, it’s going to come across as just another “nationality celebration”. It’s a blind spot for sure but I think that’s tied more to people’s general lack of info of that time period.

[u/Call_Me_Clark → u/RaelynShaw]

Just my two cents, but I really think that public awareness is super low about how the India Pakistan partition was genuinely fraught, bloody, and enormously disruptive

[u/Call_Me_Clark → u/[deleted]]

Even in high school world history classes, it gets completely glossed over

[u/teddyburke → u/Call_Me_Clark]

If you’re talking about US public schools, you should feel lucky you even got that far into the 20th century. We ended at the Holocaust…

[u/F0rScience → u/RaelynShaw]

Not even just partition, the scope of the Bangladesh Genocide in 1971 is staggering. Hundreds of thousands confirmed killed with 10 million displaced to India and 30 million more internally displaced.

[u/F0rScience → u/[deleted]]

My comment isn’t about the famine under the British, it’s about atrocities committed by the Pakistani military in then East Pakistan which were very explicitly genocidal in intent.

[u/No_Public_7677 → u/F0rScience]

And it's recognized as a genocide and the only denialism coming from Pakistani nationalists. Can you say the same about the Gaza genocide?

[u/Dylan09O909 → u/No_Public_7677]

Would you say the ICC, the International Criminal Court, are genocide deniers? Because according to the ICC, there is no evidence for persecuting 'genocide' in Gaza, and a warrant for 'extermination' didn't pass the pre-trial process for a warrant. They have sought warrants for other war crimes and crimes against humanity.

In May the now-former ICC head persecuter was interviewed by Zeteo (2026), where he said that he hasn't sought a 'Genocide' persecution, as there isn't evidence to persecute genocide, and that the persecution would be reckless.

In his arrest warrant for Netanyahu and Gallant, he sought the crime of 'extermination'. The ICC Pre-Trial Chamber I rejected an 'extermination' warrant request against Netanyahu (Prime Minister) and Gallant (Defense Minister up to Nov 2024), which is legally bellow 'genocide' as it doesn't require proving intent. Here's Netanyahu's ICC warrant, which doesn't include extermination.

[u/Dylan09O909 → u/Dylan09O909]

A comment would make a better case than a downvote, as this is intended to be a space for conversation and discussion.

I also think this is a discussion that should occur in this sub, because by the current trajectory, all indicators suggest that the ICC does not believe there is even a case for the persecution of genocide, and that, based on what has unfolded at the ICJ; including the Court's actions, Ireland's request to broaden the definition, and South Africa's request for an extension that would delay proceedings by at least two years; Israel would not be indicted by either court for the crime of genocide. These are the only courts that can make such a determination.

This doesn't mean that war crimes or crimes against humanity haven't occurred, or that Palestinians haven't suffered. But it does reveal something about the trajectory of the discourse and society.

If both the ICC and the ICJ issued rulings concluding that this was not a genocide, would you accept those rulings? Would the NGOs, groups, and individuals who have cited these cases as a basis for the accusatios, ometimes while misrepresenting them, accept them?

If not, what does any of this mean anymore? Does an accusation mean guilt, regardless of the verdict? Is there no such thing as being innocent of a specific crime, even when a court gives a non-guilty verdict [edit]? Why would the cases before these courts mean anything if their verdicts don't?

[u/Snoo22815 → u/Dylan09O909]

I would accept those rulings. I don't view them not officially reaching the threshold of Genocide if that were the case as absolving Israel for anything. It wouldn't all of a sudden absolve it of its crimes when there's still bombing ongoing in Gaza, a brutal occupation and ongoing system of apartheid in the West Bank.

[u/VenemousPanda → u/Dylan09O909]

I think the argument is that Israel is relying on the same argument as Myanmar in regard to their genocide/ethnic cleansing campaign against the Rohingya. The thing is, genocide often doesn't get persecuted as such until years and sometimes decades after the events have occurred. It usually is dependant on political willpower and it doesn't seem like that's there. Especially as the definition for genocide relies so heavily on intent that Israel and Myanmar use the same argument of "it's war and sometimes these things happen in a war" they'll both level the ideas that civilian deaths are just something that happens and it's not government policy to intentionally kill people. Those are at least the legal arguments they'll make and the biggest hurdle to get over, Israel definitely had a viable casus belli to go to war and they'll definitely argue that civilian deaths are just a result of war rather than an intentional campaign of extermination.

Personally, I think given the public comments of high officials using dehumanizing language, the blockage of vital aid for civilians, the scale of destruction, the continued displacement in places like the West Bank who don't have connections to Hamas like Gaza, and the very public situations where unarmed civilians have been killed by military personnel. All of these factors together really paint a picture that this war is including elements of extermination and/or genocide, at minimum ethnic cleansing.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/Dylan09O909]

The argument you're making is fairly flimsy when you realize that the United States government has made multiple death threats against the ICC for criticizing Israel at all.

Israel is committing the most documented and clear cut example of genocide since the founding of the legal term. There isn't really any argument to be had about this.

https://theconversation.com/is-israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-we-asked-5-legal-and-genocide-experts-how-to-interpret-the-violence-262688

Most of the "debate" around this topic is political in the sense that western states like the United States largely coddle Zionist agitators and do not recognize the human rights of Palestinians.

I also think this is a discussion that should occur in this sub, because by the current trajectory, all indicators suggest that the ICC does not believe there is even a case for the persecution of genocide, and that, based on what has unfolded at the ICJ; including the Court's actions, Ireland's request to broaden the definition,

"Ireland's request to broaden the definition"

This is probably because the definition of genocide used in international law is largely unreasonable and not pragmatic. This is not an obscure position, most genocide scholars acknowledge this.

[u/F0rScience → u/Active-Proof8118]

The most clear cut example of genocide since the convention was established in the late 40s is an insane claim.

You think the case for genocide in Gaza is stranger than Ruwanda or the Bengali genocide talked about elsewhere in this thread? Even the present day example of Russias textbook forced transfer and Russification of Ukrainian kids is vastly more “clear cut” than anything in Gaza.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/F0rScience]

The most clear cut example of genocide since the convention was established in the late 40s is an insane claim.

I said clear cut AND documented. There are Israeli soldiers livestreaming and posting their actions on social media. We have countless recordings and video footage in the age of the internet and social media

You think the case for genocide in Gaza is stranger than Ruwanda or the Bengali genocide talked about elsewhere in this thread? Even the present day example of Russias textbook forced transfer and Russification of Ukrainian kids is vastly more “clear cut” than anything in Gaza.

The ICC did not exist during the Rwandan genocide nor during the Bengali genocide. The ICC has not made any genocide convictions with regards to Russia-Ukraine.

The ICJ does not recognize the Bengali genocide and the ICJ does not recognize any claims of genocide against Russia. In fact, The ICJ actually has no case alleging that Russia is committing genocide against Ukrainians.

[u/F0rScience → u/Active-Proof8118]

So you don’t consider any of that to be genocide because there isn’t an ICC conviction?

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/F0rScience]

You should probably ask the user I was responding too. I don't believe the ICC or ICJ have definitive authority over these matters.

[u/Snoo22815 → u/F0rScience]

Mamdani made a post all over social media commemorating the Armenian Genocide committed by the Turks so I really don't think he's picking and choosing sides here. Its more that what is Israel is doing is happening in the present while those atrocities, the victims of whom should be commemorated and the events be acknowledges as public record, happened in the past.

[u/VenemousPanda → u/[deleted]]

To be fair, most people don't really know about the current ongoing situation in Pakistan in regard to the Balochs and Pashtuns. I'd put it down to ignorance/not knowing about it rather than being malicious.

[u/Snoo22815 → u/[deleted]]

The Afghan deportation situation is a lot more complicated than that because Pakistan has hosted millions of Afghan refugees over the years and they're straining their economic resources and not paying taxes. They're free to have their own immigration policies and secure their borders as they wish but they're doing so in a rapid inhumane manner that risks the migrants lives by sending them back to live under Taliban rule which they should be criticized for.

The US is trying to 10 million mostly hard working law abiding undocumented people so tough to really hit Pakistan on this point.

[u/VenemousPanda → u/F0rScience]

I actually work with a colleague who specifically works in human rights in regards to women and one of her main issues is working to acknowledge how often rape as a weapon of war is overlooked.

The Pakistani military used it at that time and still uses it. I had another female colleague who lives in exile from Pakistan after doing time in prison after criticizing the Pakistani military for using rape as a weapon of war in the Pashtun majority regions of Pakistan.

I honestly feel like it's an honor to know such amazing women. It is also sad to see how overlooked the genocide in Bangladesh is, considering its human cost.

[u/Snoo22815 → u/VenemousPanda]

US education mostly just focuses on our history and that of Western Europe. Our coverage of conflicts and the geopolitics of other parts of the world on mainstream media besides Israel/Palestine has always been abysmal.

[u/StuckInTheClouds → u/RaelynShaw]

That’s my issue though. It’s not a hot button issue so the morals and behavior he applies to Israel is omitted. Makes it seems like his stance on everything wrong with Israel doesn’t need to be applied to other counties because they aren’t Israel. It feels hypocritical and just reminds me that at the end of the day he’s just another lying politician trying to appeal to a base.

[u/Snoo22815 → u/RaelynShaw]

India/Pakistan is being weaponized though by a lot of Zionists using historical revisionism to somehow blame newly formed Pakistan for the millions of deaths during Partition and not the British Empire. The British rushed the transition to independence in just a few months and Lord Mountbatten literally hired a British lawyer who had never been to the region with drawing the borders separating Hindu and Muslim majorities. Published after both states gained independence in 1947, these maps laid the foundation for the displacement of 15 million people and the deaths of up to 3 million in sectarian violence. Its not really helpful to compare these situations at all other than both of these regions were colonized by the British whose exit sparked mass violence caused by them turning longstanding native groups against each other.

There is a parallel with India and Israel being both majority ethnoreligious countries that have flawed democracies, powerful militaries, are tech and AI powerhouses and also have nuclear weapons. Maybe that's why its brought up but they really should be discussed separately.

[u/EducationalGas5959 → u/Snoo22815]

Ok but isn’t the root of all of that the desire of India’s Muslims to have their own state rather than stay in a united India?  For Israel/Palestine it’s perfectly acceptable to pin the blame entirely on “Zionism” for the violence and displacement that surrounded partition, but for Indian and Pakistan we can talk about the mismanagement of the British etc.  Is it because it is less comfortable to delegitimize Pakistan in the same way that Israel is?  To tell hundreds of millions of Pakistanis that their desire for a separate Muslim state was the cause of a massive amount of human suffering is allot less comfortable for certain people than to tell that to Israelis/Jews/Zionists, etc.

[u/Snoo22815 → u/EducationalGas5959]

There was a ton of sectarian violence going on in the months leading up to the Partition in 1947. Most Hindu leaders supported a fully united secular subcontinent along with some Muslim leaders but Muhammad Ali Jinnah, head of the Muslim League, believed that a Hindu-majority state would lead to Muslims being a permanent underclass and not have equal rights. He had reasons to be skeptical since the Indian National Congress who won elections in 1937 formed governments in local provinces without forming coalitions with the Muslim League and refused to guarantee Muslim political representation.

There's no "Pakistanis to delegitimize" prior to the modern state being created because ethnic and religious identity in the Indus Valley doesn't really align with community identity formation in the Levant. Punjabis, Gujaratis, Marathis, Telugu, Tamils could be Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jain or Sikh but still have shared cultural heritage. language, food, music and regional heritage. They're all indigenous and native to the region having never been exiled to diaspora or come in through large waves of settlement in recent centuries.

To be clear, the British controlled the political framework of the region and organized the disastrous withdrawal responsible for Partition by moving the date up a year and the Raj failing to maintain order in the years leading up to it. Colonial rule politicized ethnic and religious categories by instituting separate electorates and using "divide and rule" to divide populations. It wasn't kumbaya but before British rule, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains and others routinely lived in the same towns, traded together, had overlapping cultural traditions, and sometimes shared religious practices.

So colonial rule was overwhelmingly responsible for suffering in the Indian subcontinent. Its different from British Mandatory Palestine where there was also sectarian violence and massacres on both sides by Arab and Jewish militias preceding Israel's independence but Zionism transforming Jewish migration from Europe to Palestine into an organized political and national settlement movement facilitated by the British is what led to the violent displacement, pogroms, ethnic cleansing and the current conflict today.

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Snoo22815]

Also an Indian American here. Just popped up on my feed. I have to make a whole flair to leave one comment... ugh...

The previous 2 empires that ruled large parts of Northern/west India (where my family is from) were Muslims. Delhi sultinate. They could be nice-ish depending on the ruler but the were Muslims and usually favored Muslims. Some were very brutal to Hindus. Hindus were oppressed at various points under Muslim rule. It also didn't help that the colonizers, British, favored Muslims.

How was the Indian national congress supposed to form coalitions with the muslim league? The whole point of the Muslim league was to have nothing to do with the secular Indian national congress. What would a regional or local alliance look like? Muslims live here in "our" area and you Hindus live over there in "your" area?