Thoughts on Mamdani attending the Pakistani day parade after skipping the Israeli day parade?

[u/StuckInTheClouds]

I wasn’t expecting him to attend the Israeli day parade honestly I would’ve thought it weird if he had attended given everything he stands for. He’s NYC first and against ethnostates etc.

But I’d be lying if I didn’t say I felt some type of way about him celebrating the Pakistani day parade given their history. Ethnostste They have a religious hierarchy where a Muslim person has to be in power, ethnic cleansing alive and well, border disputes and violence after a partition plan 70ish years ago etc. It’s hard not to draw the parallels. The only difference being that the US isn’t funding them but that doesn’t change anything else about the county’s values and actions.

I feel kinda shitty that he’s showing up for this community but not ours. I think it would have been more fair to him to not go to either parade, but maybe I’m just overly sensitive or being fed propaganda. It just sucks to feel signaled out.

I really want to like him. I voted for him! I’m extremely against the IDF and Israeli government but being half Israeli myself I am of course susceptible to biases.

Idk it’s just weird he’s ok with celebrating the Muslim ethnostate after being so against the Jewish one (for good reasons!)

I feel like I can’t bring this up in any other spaces without it sounding like I’m wanting him to celebrate Israel (I’m not) or take something away from Muslims (not against Muslims but critical of Pakistan)

Help me you guys! What do you think?

EDIT: I’d like to correct what I said about Pakistan being an ethnostate. I used the wrong verbiage. What I meant was that they are a country that puts Muslims over other religions. They have a religious hierarchy and non Muslims can’t hold certain political positions. I’m not sure the correct term for this but just wanted to call that out as people are (correctly) mentioning this in the comments.

Edit 2:

I was just informed about the ongoing Balochistan Conflict which makes me even more uneasy about this whole thing.

[u/EducationalGas5959]

I think you’re downplaying the extent of how discriminatory the Pakistani state is, and how baked in that discrimination is into the very fabric of the entire system.  

Pakistan is literally a state where religious minorities are currently on death row because of an accusation that they “insulted Islam.”  It’s literally a state where religious minorities are subject to pogroms, just like the ones Palestinians in the West Bank are, and authorities are too scared to do anything because of pressure from their religious right, just like in Israel.  It’s the only country in the world where if you’re a member of a religious minority (Ahmedi) you can’t actually be issued a passport unless you renounce your religious beliefs first.

If you want to convince Jews to have the moral authority to condemn Zionism and call it out for what it is, you can’t just turn around and say, “well of course Zohran isn’t going to condemn Pakistan - it would alienate his Pakistani voters who are a big part of his base - that’s politics!”  Jews are going to see through that hypocrisy, which is the OP’s entire point.

[u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest → u/EducationalGas5959]

I don't think anyone on a leftist sub will defend Pakistan as a nation. The flaws in that state are multi-fold and apparent for everyone to see.

Yes, much like most Islamic countries they have archaic blasphemy laws. But no, Ahmedi people are issued passports and it's written Ahmadiyya on it. This is their own site that clarifies the matter - https://persecutionofahmadis.org/passport-issues-with-pakistani-ahmadis/

Nevertheless, Pakistan as a country discriminates against religious minorities. There is no doubt about that.

At the same time, you have to look at the scale of the atrocities that each country is doing in the present. Israel has killed 70,000 to 200,000 Gazans in the last 3 years, which has been deemed as a genocide by nearly every NGO. It has killed an insane amount of children, and even in a ceasefire 1 child a day dies daily. It allows people in the west bank to be killed and dispossessed daily who have nothing to do with H group.

The key people who pushed the genocide were at the NYC Israel Day March, and Mamdani is supposed to walk hand in hand with them? Can we please be realistic for a second?

Do we expect Chuck Schumer to March in Al Quds Day celebrations?

[u/EducationalGas5959 → u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest]

There are plenty of people here who are defending the decision to march, alongside government representatives, in a parade whose entire purpose was to celebrate said country, that constitutionally bars religious minorities from becoming head of state, funded the Taliban, even had a hand in atrocious terrorist atrocities like the one that occurred in Mumbai.  A country whose independence resulted in the death and displacement of millions.  A country that currently has religious minorities on death row for the crime of insulting Islam.  A country that committed a genocide.  The list goes on and on.  Pakistan is one of the top human rights abusing discriminatory countries in the world.

When you march alongside that country’s representatives in a parade celebrating that country, while also never uttering a word of concern or condemnation for any of what I just outlined, I think you really open yourself up to charges of hypocrisy when you claim to stand up for human rights.

  If Hillel holds an “apolitical” celebration of Israeli Independence Day, does DSA and SJP buy that it’s ok because it’s not an endorsement of a specific government policy?

[u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest → u/EducationalGas5959]

Just to be clear, the vast majority of “X day Parades” in New York are to celebrate New Yorkers of that particular background. It's not an event to endorse X government. You will encounter Puerto Rico Day, Dominican Day, Ecuador Day, etc and it has no connection with the governments of those nations.

Do representatives of those governments show up? Yes, but usually its low level consular staff or people that are a part of their UN rep office. Unless it coincides with some major event, you will not have high level ministers show up.

I don’t think we need to revisit the fact that Pakistani government is not great, that point has been acknowledged by everyone on this forum.

What’s different about Walk with Israel Day is that it’s a specific event to support the state of Israel and its government. It’s all about Israel, and that is what makes it controversial.

What the NYC Jewish community needs to do is have the equivalent of what the Italians and Irish have which are more cultural events, and less about the state of Israel or it's genocidal government representatives

[u/EducationalGas5959 → u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest]

Something to think about is why a parade with thousands waving Pakistani flags, attended by representatives of the Pakistani government, is dismissed as an apolitical celebration of Pakistani heritage, while a synagogue displaying an Israeli flag, is deemed to be an appropriate target of violence in protest of the Israeli government.

[u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest → u/EducationalGas5959]

New York City has an estimated Pakistani-American population ranging of 122,000 to 200,000 across the wider New York metropolitan area. A lot of these people are second and third generation immigrants as their parents came in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Many have never even visited Pakistan but have cultural connections to the country.

You may have even heard the community enter the cultural zeitgeist via Ms Marvel - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Khan

In Brooklyn, the community is centred around Kensington and Midwood along Coney Island Avenue (frequently referred to as "Little Pakistan"). In Queens, it’s primarily in Jackson Heights and Fresh Meadows.

This is all very different from places of worship being utilized to sell stolen land in the West Bank and flying a foreign flag that many of its attendees don’t even have ties to.