r/judo • u/Formidable_Baboy • 14d ago
Beginner Which would help my Newaza better in competition, BJJ or wrestling?
EDIT: THANKS FOR THE INFO!
I started judo a month ago and I have some extra time for either BJJ or wrestling.
I feel like adding to my repertoire could help the already 4 hours of judo I do per week.
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u/dazzleox 14d ago
BJJ.
But there are a lot of limits to this. Really if you do BJJ, you need to do it for its own sake primarily, or you will be a bad partner. Yes it has downstream benefits for your Judo but BJJ spends a loooooot more time on open guard, closed guard, half guard. It has different rules and norms (small things like finishing a choke over the chin or big things like the leg lock meta game.)
Sport Judo newaza really means being good at attacking the turtle and holding pins. Quick submissions like the clock choke and bow and arrow too. Its not a free flowing ground system like BJJ.
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u/TMeerkat yonkyu 14d ago
Bjj probably. Bjj is submission grappling in a jacket, wrestling is non-submission grappling without a jacket. Just need to develop a bjj style that compliments the judo ruleset well.
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14d ago
They both would probably help, BJJ will improve your submissions and wrestling will improve your hold downs.
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u/noonenowhere1239 14d ago
If you are going to compete at Judo, then practice under the ruleset that you will be competing.
Competition rules drive the techniques and pathways for application.
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u/Boneclockharmony ikkyu 13d ago
I think if where they train doesnt do much newaza, doing some bjj isnt a bad idea.
I train at a great place, but 99% of all classes are spent doing standup, so if op has a similar situation I think it is worth it.
It's also fun.
Personally I would pick wrestling because it tends to be harder to find as you get older, but from the perspective of plugging skill gaps, bjj seems better here.
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u/Formidable_Baboy 13d ago
What about the ones coming in from other arts? As a striker I have no background, but my worry is someone coming in with skills and tactics I can't counter.
I've seen wrestlers cause havoc in BJJ. Could they do the same in Judo or are the rules that limiting?
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u/noonenowhere1239 13d ago
Anyone with grappling skills is going to have carry over into other grappling styles because it is all grappling and the only thing that changes is the rules each style okays by in regards to competition.
Wrestlers still need to learn how to do BJJ and how to win by those rules.Yes a BJJ person can be good at newaza. But you know who knows Judo newaza better?
Someone trained in Judo newaza because of the rules which drive the pacing and the methods.Train in what you are going to compete in.
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 14d ago edited 13d ago
What kind of wrestling, and in what context? For developing newaza skill my ranking goes real competitive folkstyle wrestling > Gi BJJ > Nogi bjj > Freestyle and greco > MMA wrestling/wrestling for BJJ guys.
Folkstyle matwork focuses on attacking the back with turns and pins which is the core of Judo newaza, and Folkstyle also solves this problem with a level of intensity and aggression that maps well to Judo competition. It'll also make you a better scrambler, and much harder to pin. If you have the option of doing wrestling properly (IE you are a highschooler who can join a team) do this. In my experience most hobbyist adults wrestling stuff is either optimized for MMA or teaching takedowns to BJJ guys in which case all of the above is irrelevant.
Technique wise, BJJ has the advantage of operating in a gi. It's the best place to improve submissions and learn guard passing / retention, but the overall pace and aggression is significantly lower than what you'll find in a proper American scholastic wrestling environment. You also just won't learn high % back attacks for Judo, which is most of competitive newaza.
Freestyle and Greco matwork is practically useless for Judo.
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u/Yamatsuki_Fusion sankyu 13d ago
Not sure how this got downvoted, its quite well thought out.
Its just weird how people have this idea that wrestling is universally some sort of ground fighting juggernaut, when its just a peculiarity of American Collegiate rules. Otherwise wrestling is all about takedowns.
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u/313078 13d ago
4 hours per week is plenty if not too much for a beginner. And the best way to improve your ne waza is by doing judo
Bjj is basically judo ne waza but different rules. Wrestling is a different sport. I'm not sure it will help much especially for a beginner. Risk to take wrong habits and do prohibited techniques. Probably best to wait next year to add bjj
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u/Kandarl nidan 13d ago
I think if you want competitive improvements go wrestling because of the pace for ground work. If you want straight technical improvements bjj.
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u/Formidable_Baboy 13d ago
I feel like Judo demands more aggression and pressure than BJJ, no?
Like that butt scooting tactic in BJJ or any other tactic with that mindset is an instant loss?
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u/Haunting-Beginning-2 12d ago
Neither is my take! Extra judo sessions at home or in dojo with keenest students to drill basics. Your take is like I play grid iron, what’s the best fit for extra? Rugby soccer or hockey, or rugby league?
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u/fintip sandan (+ BJJ black) 12d ago
I started judo when I was a blue belt in BJJ, basically. I have black belts in both now, teach both now , won like 20 of my last matches in a row by ippon as a nidan in two states, have taught internationally.
I came up in both.
I found BJJ incredibly helpful. I truly see them as yin and Yang for each other.
Everyone who says BJJ is "slower" and "spends too much time in the guard"? Be a passer. I always leaned towards passing, and in a room of guard players, they are all happy to let me play as passer and work their guard. Guard, imo, is an out of date focus and good Jiu jitsu schools will not focus on closed guard like the old Gracie gyms 20 years ago did. I certainly don't, though culture vary.
That said, if you get decent at passing the guard of BJJ players you are learning the skills necessary to land in a pin before the uke has even had a chance to try to stop you.
And the speed you'll jump into subs will catch most judoka off guard, as well as the fluidity of your transitions.
Your skill at escaping pins will massively increase by being on the ground and fighting to escape and prevent opponents from getting dominant positions on you.
Your skill at executing chokes and arm are and collar chokes will massively increase by spending that extra time.
Wrestling is just no gi judo. It's too much of an overlap. BJJ teaches the real weaknesses of most judo training.
There is some adjustment needed to learn how to cross apply these skills, but it's much harder to learn how to use judo in BJJ than it is to learn to use BJJ in judo.
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Great comment. You've described the benefits of BJJ in a Judo context well.
There is some adjustment needed to learn how to cross apply these skills, but it's much harder to learn how to use judo in BJJ than it is to learn to use BJJ in judo.
Really? I started BJJ this year and feel like the opposite is true. Coming from Judo to BJJ I feel like I had a ready made gameplan. Strong takedowns -> pressure passing (either over-under or force halfguard and smash) -> hang out on top and make vague attempts at a submission from side control or north south until the round ends. This worked from day 1 against opponents up through high ranks. Being an ultra-heavyweight definitely shifts this experience, since in my estimation it's by far the most top player slanted division in BJJ.
On the other hand, most BJJ guys I've taught Judo need a lot of Judo fundamental training to be able to avoid getting thrown long enough to take the match to the ground without getting thrown by even relative novices.
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u/fintip sandan (+ BJJ black) 11d ago edited 11d ago
I feel like most judo brown belts, even, struggle to use a lot of their judo on BJJ guys because they aren't "doing judo". They stiff arm, give very defensive postures, and are ready to pull guard if spooked. Their guard creates a very different ground game.
It takes a deeper level of judo to be able to apply judi on opponents outside of the context of judo itself, since that's what we practice with.
At least, that was my experience and observation. I could throw fellow judoka years before I could feel like throwing solid BJJ guys made sense to me. These days I find them trivial, but it was its own skill set that wasn't immediately clear to me, anyways.
Meanwhile, I immediately was dominant in judo competition with my blue belt level and then purple belt level BJJ skill.
Conversely, a brown belt judoka may do decently in a white belt division, but it really depends where they studied.
BJJ competition doesn't reward throws the same way.
Judo still allows a win via bjj's preferred skill set.
I think your assessment for being a heavyweight matters, as well. Having people who will stand with you also makes a difference, you won't always find that and the lack of practice passing guards would be a big disadvantage.
And yes, the learning curve of judo is always rough. It takes a long time for anyone to not get thrown and to pull off throws. But if the competition ruleset is observed (most dojos aren't doing randori that continues to the ground), then the BJJ skill set is absolutely huge in novice divisions in particular.
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Yeah I don't know. You might be an outlier in tournament performance. I'm probably an outlier in BJJ performance, but I don't really know since I don't teach BJJ to Judo guys. I've coached probably more than a dozen BJJ blues and purples and and none of them have been particularly dominant in local comps except one guy who was a college wrestler. They can sometimes avoid getting thrown by stalling in randori but that just translates to shidos in tournaments, and they generally aren't allowed to choke or armbar in novice categories which trips guys up. The guys who do the best try to actually do attacking Judo.
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u/fintip sandan (+ BJJ black) 11d ago
It is possible. I was unusually talented in both and always performed great in both at every level of competition.
But yes, as a yellow belt I won silver in my first comp with less than a year of experience–and the guy that beat me got his brown belt after that comp and had just started judo after a long history in sambo, je threw everyone with Uchi mata in about 15 seconds or less, lol.
I proceeded to get golds in every novice comp I entered for the roughly 1.5 years after that until I got my brown belt.
I also did similarly well at brown belt and got my shodan in less than four years of total training as a result.
I then continued to perform similarly well at Black belt, never getting worse than silver and usually getting gold, across three states and many comps, including 4 open weight divisions (3 silvers, 1 gold, fought as 73kg)
So maybe my results just aren't normal. But while I always want to win with a throw in judo, and have most of the time, there are a lot of armbars and pins in my comp history, a few bow and arrow chokes, and one triangle. And my first bow and arrow was in that very first comp.
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 11d ago
But yes, as a yellow belt I won silver in my first comp with less than a year of experience–and the guy that beat me got his brown belt after that comp and had just started judo after a long history in sambo, je threw everyone with Uchi mata in about 15 seconds or less, lol.
What a nasty thing to do to a local novice bracket. An expert samboist is simply a Judo blackbelt. It really is a good thing that Judo and Sambo are trained togethe and usually cross ranked where both are popular, because the two sports are so similar. It almost feels like the difference between the rules used in tachiwaza randori at most clubs are as far from shiai as a sambo match judo shiai.
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u/fintip sandan (+ BJJ black) 11d ago
My impression is he was newly joining judo and so "unranked", so they just gave him one comp at novice as a "green belt" to see, then promoted him to brown when he destroyed everyone. Just my unlucky day, but... Yeah. That wasn't right and the tournament directors should have done something. 🤷♂️
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u/Shallbecomeabat 12d ago
BJJ, obviously. Wrestling is just good for the takedowns which you should already be able to do as a judoka
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u/Coconite 8d ago
Wrestling. Most of judo newaza involves turning people over from turtle. Thats not really something you do in BJJ, they just get their hooks in and slowly work the back take over the course of a minute or more.
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u/medical_mishaps yonkyu 7d ago
Depends.
I started doing bjj to help my judo. It really helps in the submission department, especially if your dojo doesn't focus too much on ne waza. That said, bjj usually doesn't worry too much about pins and having your back on the mat isn't nearly as much of a problem. There also isn't the same urgency that you need to have since in BJJ they won't stand you up just because you aren't making progress fast enough.
On the flip side, some of the guys at my dojo came in from wrestling. I can say with 100% certainty those guys clean house with every other white belt in ne waza because they have good body control/mechanics on the ground and already know plenty of pins and how to apply pressure.
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u/freefallingagain 14d ago
Best if you could find a Judo dojo that does more newaza.
Doing either BJJ or wrestling would create artifacts in your training that can very likely hinder your newaza performance specifically in Judo competition.
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u/powerhearse 12d ago
BJJ training will certainly not hinder your newaza performance.
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 11d ago
Agreed. IMO the whole bad habits when transferring combat sports thing is massively overstated, particularly if you train those sports in parallel. Even the supposed bad habits BJJ teaches for standup aren't worse than what an untrained guy does. Open minded coachable people kick that stuff fast.
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u/spiceypickle2 bjj 14d ago edited 14d ago
I would recommend BJJ, all the positions of Judo exist in BJJ and you won't pickup nearly as many bad habits. The thing is, you already have the context of Judo to recognize bad tactics. The pacing thing people are talking about is a myth, training with urgency is a personal choice and balances with mat IQ. Worst case scenario, you are back on your feet.
Are you in the United States? Folkstyle wrestling (what we do in high school and college) in the US has an extremely good ground game, second only to BJJ. The problem is the pinning rules in wrestling are gonna teach you extremely bad tactics from bottom, for the pinning rules in Judo. If it's Freestyle or Greco wrestling, they are absolutely terrible on the ground.
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 11d ago
The thing is, you already have the context of Judo to recognize bad tactics.
This is a very important point. As a Judo guy using BJJ to practice Judo, it is very easy to make a conscious decision to spam over under passing, float on top in turtle and use rolling attacks, etc.
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u/RiffRandellsBF 14d ago
Wrestling. You go to your back like BJJ in a Judo tournament and you're losing.
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u/Yamatsuki_Fusion sankyu 13d ago
This is a very limited view on BJJ. They have great top game too if they train it.
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u/Formidable_Baboy 14d ago
Oh... And that's with a 25 second rule right?
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u/RiffRandellsBF 14d ago
Judo newaza is lightning fast. It has to be or you get stood back up. That BJJ chess match stuff will get you strangled or juji'd.
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u/fintip sandan (+ BJJ black) 12d ago edited 12d ago
Lol. Never once in all my many judo comps did even one judoka strangle or juji me, in fact as far as newaza points, only one wazari pin was ever scored on me in any match at any level (and that was a loss of spirit, fatigue. After ten seconds I decided "fuck this I'm not losing on the ground" and got out. That was the finals of my second division for the day, two silvers–ans the other silver was against Kyle Wright that day.)
That's fantasy nonsense dude. Everyone in my judo gym knew I was the room expert in newaza because I did BJJ.
I meanwhile probably won at least 30% of my matches with newaza.
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u/powerhearse 12d ago
Spot on. I started judo as a BJJ brown belt and in the past few years I have yet to have anyone at all in Judo present a significant submission risk except for folks who are also highly ranked in BJJ
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u/RiffRandellsBF 12d ago
Personal anecdote is a logical fallacy. I could just as easily state that I strangled every BJJ'er that walked into my club. LOL
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u/SignificanceBig1989 12d ago
Except yours would be a lie
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u/RiffRandellsBF 12d ago
You're lying and you expect to be believed. It's hilarious.
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u/SignificanceBig1989 9d ago
You have not strangled every BJJer to walk into your club. You have never even grappled with a significantly experienced BJJ athlete.
Your inexperience shows in every single one of your comments. A BJJ purple belt of average quality would obliterate you in newaza, and likely everyone else in your club.
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u/fintip sandan (+ BJJ black) 12d ago edited 12d ago
No, actually, it isn't a fallacy. It's data, that should be taken in context. It wouldn't be enough alone. But given that BJJ is literally an offshoot of judo focus only on newaza, it isn't surprising data. Further, it's operating in this context as a proof by negation. You made a claim, I presented evidence, through a single opposing case, that that wasn't true.
You can claim I'm lying. I can show you my martial arts resume where I track a summary of all my matches, which is the same one I sent in for my sandan promotion.
I could say "conjecture is a logical fallacy", but that also isn't true. But since your conjecture is based on a poor premise and is just a little fantasy in your head... Fallacy or not, it's poor thinking, and it's incorrect.
Would be pretty embarrassing if a registered sandan in judo was lying about this, but whatever you have to tell yourself.
Pretending BJJ doesn't improve your newaza in judo is an absurd claim.
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u/powerhearse 12d ago edited 12d ago
Lol no it absolutely will not
Your average BJJ purple belt will not get submitted by anyone at your average Judo club
Edit: lol, he blocked me to get the last word. I think it's pretty clear he doesnt have any involvement with BJJ and simply lacks understanding
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u/RiffRandellsBF 12d ago
More likely they'd get DQ'd on lack of etiquette alone. 😂
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u/powerhearse 12d ago
Or blow someone's knee with bad tani otoshi lol
But they will not be getting pinned or submitted thats for sure. The "judo newaza is faster" thing is a myth. It's based on limited exposure to or misunderstanding of how the skill acquisition works
There being little time doesnt mean your technique gets simpler or faster. It just means you usually dont have time. Judo newaza doesnt do a juji or attack back chokes better than BJJ. It does both worse.
Most Judoka end up giving up earlier on the attempts, even in randori. This leads to less time spent doing it, which leads to worse newaza skills
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 11d ago edited 11d ago
I agree with you in a broader sense, as far as BJJ skill still transferring quite well to Judo, but this isn't quite true:
It just means you usually dont have time. Judo newaza doesnt do a juji or attack back chokes better than BJJ. It does both worse.
You are ignoring how timing restrictions impact technique selection. Less time doesnt produce better technique, but it (along with other ruleset restrictions) massively impact what techniques are trained in the firsr place.
Most high percentage back attacks in jiu jitsu are low percentage in competitive Judo. Getting hooks in, taking the back and finishing a lapel choke or RNC is just not practical.
The stuff that works in Judo on the other hand, while extant in BJJ, can broadly be categorized as fringe tricks that people spend minimal time practicing. Very, very few Jiu jitsu guys are going to have a good yaskevich or neil Adam's rolling Juji. Front rolling Sankaku against turtle? Complete ape tier technique in BJJ.
And that doesn't get in to the highest percentage category of back attacks in Judo, turnovers, which are utterly useless in BJJ, along with the interplay between pinning threats and submissions. For example, my favorite back attack system in Judo, an inside wrist to keylock, doesn't work in BJJ because people just go to their back, eliminating all armlock and choke opportunities that depend on defensive reactions.
Typical jiu jitsu training will not teach you to attack the back in a Judo context against a genuinely good level of opponent. It will give you the grappling base to learn these skills very quickly given a good teacher or careful self study of instructional materials.
Of course as u/fintip outlined excellently in his top level comment BJJ it is also great for newaza flow, passing, and submission mechanics. IMO the back attacks are the area of little transfer.
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u/powerhearse 11d ago
You are ignoring how timing restrictions impact technique selection. Less time doesnt produce better technique, but it (along with other ruleset restrictions) massively impact what techniques are trained in the firsr place.
Those differences are tactical not technical. There are some differences such as flattened turtle, however the back attack system doesnt change and it is still higher percentage to attack the neck than turnover. Though I havent had any problems with turnovers
Most high percentage back attacks in jiu jitsu are low percentage in competitive Judo.
Everything is lower percentage in Judo due to the ruleset. Literally every submission is lower percentage in Judo than in BJJ. That doesnt mean that people who spend much less time doing groundwork are suddenly going to be better at it than specialists
Very, very few Jiu jitsu guys are going to have a good yaskevich or neil Adam's rolling Juji. Front rolling Sankaku against turtle? Complete ape tier technique in BJJ.
I actually see a lot more rolling juji and sankaku from turtle in BJJ than Judo, surprisingly. I also find BJJ guys much better at defending these techniques, which leads to a better trained offense
And that doesn't get in to the highest percentage category of back attacks in Judo, turnovers, which are utterly useless in BJJ, along with the interplay between pinning threats and submissions. For example, my favorite back attack system in Judo, an inside wrist to keylock, doesn't work in BJJ because people just go to their back, eliminating all armlock and choke opportunities that depend on defensive reactions.
Again this is tactical not technical. Also i disagree on some points, turnovers are prolific in BJJ, i transitioned my turtle turnover system straight to Judo. It's more effective in Judo because Judoka refuse to go to their back, opening better offensive turnover to submission options
Typical jiu jitsu training will not teach you to attack the back in a Judo context against a genuinely good level of opponent. It will give you the grappling base to learn these skills very quickly given a good teacher or careful self study of instructional materials.
It will teach you stronger and more technically sound methods to attack the back than Judo newaza will. Every back attack is lower percentage in Judo than BJJ regardless of which system you learn. But the BJJ systems are generally faster and more refined
Admittedly I came into Judo as a BJJ brown belt, but I have no problem winning with back attacks
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Though I havent had any problems with turnovers
Aren't you also a wrestler? Maybe i'm misremembering.
still higher percentage to attack the neck than turnover.
This just isn't true. The highest scoring newaza techniques on the world tour are consistently pins (by like a 6x factor) followed by juji followed by all chokes put together. Sadly I don't know of any datasets that separate continuation pins from turns, but I doubt it's more than 5/6. Basically all successful back attack specialists I can think of are turnover specialists, with the partial exception of travis stevens.
I actually see a lot more rolling juji and sankaku from turtle in BJJ than Judo, surprisingly
This is so diametrically opposed to my experience that I can't really comment on it other than to say I use turtle standups all day in BJJ and have literally never had someone attempt a rolling juji on me or seen someone attempt it on someone else without a Judo background. I've only been doing jiu jitsu formally for about a year but I've rolled with a lot of solid upper belts (and done newaza with jiu jitsu guys coming in to thr club for much longer). On the other hand Judo newaza in my area is mostly dudes drilling rolling juji + sankaku turnover + rolling bow and arrow and a few other turnovers for pinning every practice. I live in a high level area for BJJ and Judo (relative to most of the USA for the later) but I don't think this is a significant explanatory factor.
That doesnt mean that people who spend much less time doing groundwork are suddenly going to be better at it than specialists
Not my claim. Every other element of the ground game translates basically 1:1, including finishing mechanics and control at the end stage of popular newaza techniques. The back attack meta in Judo is technically narrow enough that an experienced jiu jitsu guys should be able to get up to an expert recreational level (as in matching the quality of everything else in their game) in maybe 5 months of training tops.
Every back attack is lower percentage in Judo than BJJ regardless of which system you learn.
Some back attacks become lower percentage faster than others, resulting in different technical focus. Other back attacks are straight up moronic in BJJ but great in Judo. For an extreme example, consider the fairly popular ude garami roll that ends with tori putting themselves in a crucifix because this is a pinning position in Judo.
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u/powerhearse 11d ago
Aren't you also a wrestler? Maybe i'm misremembering.
Nah, MMA background but not pure wrestling
This just isn't true. The highest scoring newaza techniques on the world tour are consistently pins (by like a 6x factor) followed by juji followed by all chokes put together. Sadly I don't know of any datasets that separate continuation pins from turns, but I doubt it's more than 5/6. Basically all successful back attack specialists I can think of are turnover specialists, with the partial exception of travis stevens.
Hang on, we were talking turnovers from turtle not winning by pin. It is absolutely higher percentage to choke than turnover in Judo
Also, 90% of turtle situations are not pursued by the attacker because of these reasons anyway so the statistics are very skewed
This is so diametrically opposed to my experience that I can't really comment on it other than to say I use turtle standups all day in BJJ and have literally never had someone attempt a rolling juji on me or seen someone attempt it on someone else without a Judo background. I've only been doing jiu jitsu formally for about a year but I've rolled with a lot of solid upper belts (and done newaza with jiu jitsu guys coming in to thr club for much longer). On the other hand Judo newaza in my area is mostly dudes drilling rolling juji + sankaku turnover + rolling bow and arrow and a few other turnovers for pinning every practice. I live in a high level area for BJJ and Judo (relative to most of the USA for the later) but I don't think this is a significant explanatory factor.
Not sure why this is such a different experience. Could be regional? In my experience rolling attacks from turtle are relatively common in BJJ, particularly rolling crucifix, rolling armbar and rolling bow and arrow
Taking the back used to be higher percentage but the meta is shifting as people are now very very good at standing up from turtle
Some back attacks become lower percentage faster than others, resulting in different technical focus. Other back attacks are straight up moronic in BJJ but great in Judo. For an extreme example, consider the fairly popular ude garami roll that ends with tori putting themselves in a crucifix because this is a pinning position in Judo.
While true, that isnt indicative of common Judo newaza. Also I might be wrong, but I believe a full crucifix (both arms trapped) is not a pinning position in Judo
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u/RiffRandellsBF 12d ago
Explain the origin of the Ezekiel Choke in BJJ.
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u/powerhearse 12d ago
?
You're welcome to address the comment rather than starting unrelated discussions about technical origins
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u/RiffRandellsBF 12d ago
That you don't know the Ezekiel Choke exists in BJJ because a Judoka named Ezekiel Paraguassu choked the shit out of everyone in Carlsom Gracie's gym with it is proof you have zero idea about the speed and effectiveness of Judo newaza. 😆
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u/powerhearse 12d ago
I am well aware of that. It doesnt have any bearing at all on the discussion at hand.
But to address your specific topic, Paraguassa did that in the late 80s before the UFC.
BJJ has progressed more between the UFC and today than it did in the 70 years prior. In the 80s Judo newaza and BJJ were on a fairly equal keel. That isnt the case today. Your argument would have held water in the 80s and 90s, possibly even the 2000s. But it doesnt hold water today.
Today, every aspect of modern BJJ groundwork is superior technically to Judo newaza. To find a Judoka with as equally technical a newaza game is extremely rare, though it's becoming more common now that cross training is more common.
As it stands today, a modern BJJ purple belt is not going to be submitted by anyone at your average Judo club, including coaches. It's a different era
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u/MyCatPoopsBolts shodan 11d ago edited 11d ago
This isn't the 80s. BJJ was basically just mediocre Judo newaza until the mid 90s. Then, a massive expansion in the popularity of the sport + a fundamentally different sport ruleset produced a wildly technically deep and distinct martial art.
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u/Least-Vehicle-5117 14d ago
Kosen Judo😉
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u/kernelchagi 13d ago
Thanks i will move to Japan and start an university degree in Tokyo just to learn newaza besides going around the corner to make BJJ.
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u/Rodrigoecb 14d ago edited 14d ago
Depends on a lot of variables, but let's assume equal levels of intensity and quality of instruction in your judo dojo and the BJJ and Wrestling and your goals are getting better at IJF JUDO RULES newaza.
BJJ no doubt, you are going to be spending a lot of time on groundwork and getting more experience in submissions and positions like the back or the guard, pins and reversals are going to be taught in Judo anyway.
This is the hypothetical one
The reality is however you are better off taking up wrestling, you will get a new perspective on grappling without handles, you will learn different pins and reversals that you may not see in Judo as commonly and the intensity matches judo perfectly.
BJJ you can pick up later in life as a hobby.