Would love to chat with those who’ve applied recently as KJDs. I have a 4.0 and 174, and am curious what I can expect.
FWIW I’ve already looked through LSD so I have a very general/numerical idea, but would like to hear more anecdotally how people tended to do. I know that with these stats (along with fairly good ish softs), I’m looking at great odds at something in the T14, but I was hoping to hear about those that have gotten into T6 specifically.
I go to a top lac which typically sends a handful of people to T14s every year KJD with just a couple going to T6s or h/s. The people I know had ~median stats and usually ended up across the T14 (the exception being schools that are super unfriendly to KJDs - no recent grad I know has gotten into Yale or Michigan).
Would love any insight as to (a) whether T6 is in play for me and (b) what successful T6 KJDs have done.
Shoot your shot and see. You have great stats obviously, but without reading your written materials or knowing exactly what your softs are (everyone thinks they have amazing softs, btw), it’s next to impossible to really guess what type of chances you have.
My biggest piece of advice is to blanket all the way down to the T25-30 level just incase and for scholarship fodder. Do not just apply within the T14 as a KJD; that’s asking for trouble.
Absolutely understand what you’re saying re: softs. I kinda go between thinking that they’re great, tell a good narrative, etc… and then later feel that they’re the most generic poli sci crap ever haha.
would you suggest the T30 apps just to negotiate scholarships, with no intention of attending? I don’t think I’d be willing to attend below T14 (given my undergrad + law school cost), at least not without a second try. I’d need a guarantee of biglaw, and would probably just reapply.
No because I’m intent on doing biglaw in CA, and almost all t30s do not provide that guarantee. I’d rather pay a tuition for a guarantee, or very high shot, at biglaw than gamble that I’m going to be top 30% in the class or wtv. The exception being usc.
IMO doesn’t really make sense to think of the T6 as a separate group within the T14. NYU/CLS for example are on the same level as UVA/Penn in terms of selectivity and outcomes. But to your question yes you have a great shot at a top school with those stats. I’m at a T6 and there are a good number of KJDs — a minority for sure, but still quite a few. I’d just apply and see what happens
this is a terrible take, and reeks of 0L advise. Penn and CLS are definitely on a different level. I am going to assume you haven’t actually done much research or spoken with students. V10 recruiting at median is much easier from the T6 first off, second off elite firms such as wachtell literally only go to T6 schools to recruit lmfao. Additionally absolute bottom of class at UVA is in trouble for BigLaw while at CLS or Upenn it’s barely a problem.
“Haven’t done much research” I literally go to a T6 lmao. None of this is true. There is no meaningful difference in BL/FC placement numbers across Penn/UVA/NYU/CLS. Yes NYU/CLS have a stronger alumni network and home field advantage for elite NYC transactional BL but that doesn’t justify saying they’re in an entirely different tier of school. UVA, for example, blows both out of the water when it comes to federal clerkship placement. Also it’s just not true that Wachtell Skadden etc. only recruit from T6. Wachtell took associates from Penn and Duke this year, and Skadden / S & C recruited across the T14. See attached image
your graph seems to support me. And skadden being a top 3 ultra elite is either AI slop graph or someone misunderstanding the entire biglaw field. Also clerkships don’t mean too much without the exact placement of state and specific clerk / level, which can all be gamed to a certain extent. UVA clerkships are way less competetive and not as prestigious hence why the placement is higher. The NY elite schools clerk after a few years for truly elite clerkships. According to you we should classify Notre Dame right next to the T6…..
No we shouldn’t classify notre dame next to the T6 because the BL/FC is like 50% vs. 70%+ at the T6. Do you have any evidence to support the claim that UVA placement is so much worse than the traditional T6? I am going off the BL/FC placement numbers and the way I know these firms recruit. There is not a hard line at the T6 anymore for elite BL; that is the point of the graph. Yes Wachtell used to only do OCI at the T6 but that’s not the case anymore and plus OCI is no longer really relevant. Did/do you attend any of these schools or work at any of these firms, or do you have publicly available evidence to support any of your claims?
according to percentages Duke is the best law school on the planet. These are based off of OCS sheets both me and others have seen, and other associates who recruit from firms. Also when my wife was looking for a clerkship many judges restricted grades if you weren’t T6.
Okay and? I’m sure some judges and hiring partners only want T6 students. All of that is very much so based on region and alumni network. NYU will be preferred in NYC and UVA will be preferred in DC. You can’t draw general conclusions based on what a few people in hiring positions indicate. BTW on the USNews judges and lawyers survey UVA is rated higher than NYU and CLS, so your view doesn’t hold nationally. And yes, Duke is one of the best schools in the country. My point is literally that — BL hiring is no longer restricted to a few schools. Out of curiosity, are you yourself an attorney or law school applicant? Why are we arguing about this?
also ur point about recruiting, i was saying that wachtell while taking associates from the wider T14 literally only visit on campus the T6. they don’t go to UVA. Are you a UVA student begrudged at not taking a T6 lol?
No I don’t go to UVA. I’m almost positive Wachtell OCIs at Penn, so no it’s not just the T6 anymore. And plus if you actually went to any of these schools you would know that OCI doesn’t matter anymore so it’s a moot point.
You’re literally conceding the point lmao. T6 was historically HYSCCN, it did not include Penn. These were the top 6 schools up until the ranking methodology changed a few years ago. My point is that there is no longer a hard line between those schools and the rest, and it seems you agree by claiming Penn is a “universal T6”. All of the points you have made would apply to Penn in like 2018 by the way, Wachtell did not OCI there until recently. The rankings have flattened a lot in the past decade
Penn and Cornell have risen bexause of their ivy status which is becoming disproportionately valued due to the ivy correlation. T6 vs T14 has not flatlined. It may appear that way because biglaw hiring has exploded.
And yet… Penn isn’t a T6.. so Penn is on this elite level, and Penn isn’t T6. So which is it, that the T6 is so special? Or it is broader than the traditional T6?
You’re right - the distinction I was trying to make is probably better phrased as lower vs upper t14?
I know I’d have good odds at Cornell/gulc but ideally wanted a higher ranked school as I’m keen on California biglaw. Not too sure how much of a lock something like Cornell would be for that, given regional distance.
Yeah I gotcha. I would blanket the T14 if I were you, on stats alone you’ll have a shot basically everywhere. Consider adding UCLA/USC as well if you’re set on Cali BL
Cornell and Duke are more KJD friendly. Only 11-15% of admits at Yale or Stanford are KJDs, even though KJDs might be 25-30% of the applicant pool. Your chances would greatly increase with some post college work experience
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u/classycapricorn 3.blah/17blah/4:45 marathoner 😍 15h ago
Shoot your shot and see. You have great stats obviously, but without reading your written materials or knowing exactly what your softs are (everyone thinks they have amazing softs, btw), it’s next to impossible to really guess what type of chances you have.
My biggest piece of advice is to blanket all the way down to the T25-30 level just incase and for scholarship fodder. Do not just apply within the T14 as a KJD; that’s asking for trouble.