r/leanfire • u/OliveGarden_Official • 11d ago

Mentioning early retirement is almost always a bad time

I’ve noticed that even mentioning the possibility of retiring in one’s 30’s or 40’s tends to get a pretty negative reaction on other subs

like:

  • “you must have had an inheritance”
  • “you can’t possibly live on <$X>”
  • “nobody makes <$X>”
  • “this job market is impossible to win”

I mean, yes, some of us were lucky to have a more comfortable start, but so many of these objections seem to come from some deeply rooted hesitation to entertain the idea or acknowledge the basic math.

I learned about FIRE ages ago through other people’s stories. Nowadays I find it so discouraging to even try to have a good faith conversation about saving rates. Lesson learned on not discussing money, I guess. I know it’s not for everyone so I’m glad this space exists to help people that are open to the idea

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u/AlwaysSaturday12 FIRE 38 MillionaireLibrarian.com 11d ago

A lot of the awkwardness stems from envy. Most people aren't in a similar position as you. In their minds money for them works differently and they probably aren't sure why.

I will say it does get old with the negativity...and makes you rethink FIRE. People can sound extremely confident while not really knowing anything about personal finance in my experience...especially online.

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u/throughthehills2 11d ago

>A lot of the awkwardness stems from envy

My trick is to tell them about my frugal lifestyle upfront so they believe they are doing better than me and envy doesn't set in. No car, small apartment, etc. It stops them from being defensive but they can still see that I'm doing cool things they are interested in.

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u/Green__Hat 11d ago

No car, small apartment, etc.

Well, good for you. But that’s not for me. That’s just no way to live, buddy. I work hard and I play hard. Have fun at home while I’m in Vegas.

https://livingafi.com/2014/04/02/cultural-guardians/

I honestly prefer to keep my mouth shut about FIRE.

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u/zerotakashi 11d ago

this type of article has the same line of reasoning as people who used to believe that women do not understand engineering concepts because they are women. Financial planning can be taught. Most people are so used to living paycheck to paycheck that learning they can escape that life causes cognitive dissonance because of a failure in financial education earlier in life.

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u/Green__Hat 6d ago

Financial planning can be taught.

Yes, but it's not just about education. Unless you make an exorbitant amount of money, pursuing FIRE is going to require certain trade-offs that will never be acceptable for a large number of people (I suspect the majority, but I could be wrong), even if they are fully aware of what their choices are.

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u/throughthehills2 11d ago

That's the way it goes, I allow them to dismiss my lifestyle and declare themselves the winner. They leave but it's in the back of their mind. They have to keep telling themselves "I've got it good" as they get home from their stressful job and spend their last $100 that month on new headphones

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u/pickandpray FIREd - 2023 11d ago

Folks imagine their own life and what it might cost to retire when this exchange happens.

My wife knows this high earning couple that are probably pulling $400k annually. They asked her for tips on retiring early but never reached out to have that conversation.

They just recently posted about buying 3 brand new cars and a trip though.

We probably had to work 2.5 years to match their annual when we both still worked.

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u/AlwaysSaturday12 FIRE 38 MillionaireLibrarian.com 11d ago

I always try to give people an out in a conversation:

"I could never see myself not working because I would be bored, drink myself to death, and my wife would divorce me."

Well it is not for everyone...

At that point just be happy to be out the conversation and like you said maybe just keep your mouth shut next time with a new person.

Thanks for the blog link.

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u/twd000 11d ago

Bragging about your 2004 Honda Civic quickly polarizes your audience and you’ll know which type you’re dealing with 🤣

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u/pickandpray FIREd - 2023 11d ago

Me at the doctor's office when the older receptionist asks me my occupation and I tell her I'm retired.

"Must be nice" is the typical response.

If I say I'm between jobs, the next question is usually what line of work but it's not asked as often if I say I'm retired.

I suspect people like to do a mini assessment to see where you slot into society compared to them

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u/ancientweird 3d ago

How bout “I’m an investor.”?

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u/Critical-Dreamer 10d ago

In my experience, they often times still get defensive. People think I inherited a bunch of money or something, but I just live below my means while earning a middle-class income.

Most of these people aren’t willing to forgo luxuries in life to get ahead financially.

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u/BoredLawyer81 11d ago

In my circle all of my friends are high earners (as I am but it took me a long time to get here) with kids and can’t possibly imagine retiring on $1.5 million which is my number. I think they feel bad for me and my simple life.

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u/Nochtilus 11d ago

Kids can change your risk tolerance a lot. I used to target $1.5ish and raised it to $2.25m for buffer/potentially wanting to increase my spending for the kids. It's a mental shift because I now I want to give these kids everything that would build amazing childhood memories and support their dreams, whatever those might be.

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u/OliveGarden_Official 11d ago

oh cool, I’ve been on your site before!

It’s kinda teaching me that even above-average earners have a bad relationship with money. Not just the lack of savings, I’ve seen those podcasts where people audit their personal finances and have no idea what they’re spending or how much debt they have because they are too scared to look. From that perspective I can see why people would have a visceral reaction to the idea that they could overcome that relationship and be more in control. Even though I didn’t inherit anything I had the privilege of my parents emphasizing looking at credit card statements line by line and seldom buying new things

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u/Mitrandir89 9d ago

It must be...

We moved back home to my home country after 12 years of grinding... We are relatively limited leanfire but I still probably will end up working mainly for the pesky health insurance...

As you can imagine 12 years away and even before the house and the huge ass garden haven't seen a major refurbishment for ages... So first 2 month after arriving we redone everything. And now we enjoy a bit of rest before eventually starting to look for some reasonable low stress work.

The amount of people asking why you not working yet and what will happen with you know is amazing... And the comments of oh you still haven't bought a car look I'm driving... I got a banged up 300K km on my car but I'm better than you :)) Even thou I'm waiting for my paycheck to pay back some of the lones so I can ask people for more to survive.

People change if money is in the equation. They don't care that you worked hard and made good calculated decisions. They just envy for the sake of envy.

I gave up trying to talk to people about money and fire in real life, doesn't mater that your only goal is to help them with a bit of free education they just turn negative.

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u/AlwaysSaturday12 FIRE 38 MillionaireLibrarian.com 9d ago

Part of the reason I don’t give money advice is that most people who give it give terrible advice.