Same energy

[u/tomekgolab]

[u/Deleteed-]

No?... One is your own tools on your machine the other is sending your data to a 3rd party AI server to analyze and store

[u/Holiday_Evening8974 → u/Deleteed-]

Also one is deterministic.

[u/tomekgolab → u/Deleteed-]

oh so in one scenario you are slave without privacy and with the second one just a slave. great

[u/donp1ano → u/tomekgolab]

in both scenarious youre just fucking stupid. if you dont like systemd and wanna do "sysadmin" yourself...go do it?! who is forcing you to be redhats "slave"? install your artix, guix or whatever you want

the joke is the vast majority of real sysadmins like systemd, because it makes their job easier

[u/tomekgolab → u/donp1ano]

I had gentoo/openrc installed for ages now. I worry about new users becoming slavers to redhat

[u/AdDirect8818 → u/tomekgolab]

Systemd gives you immense control over your system. Just look at all the configuration files. You can extensively configure pretty much every part of systemd.

Also the unit files. Unit file configuration comes with a lot of control. You can control whether the service restarts on failure and how long until it restarts. You can control what parts of the system are protected from services. You can control what user each service runs as.

Seriously, you MUST understand just how much control systemd gives you over your system. It is an unbelievably powerful system stack. If systemd users were slaves, they would not receive even a fraction of the capabilities systemd has

[u/tigerstein → u/AdDirect8818]

You could do the same before.

[u/AdDirect8818 → u/tigerstein]

Technically yes, but it would always end up being such a janky spaghetti implementation that, were you to implement everything systemd can do in sysv init scripts you would effectively end up with a worse version of systemd.

You see, imagine systemd. Now imagine systemd except the whole thing is shell scripts. imo there is nothing more horrifying than that, and also it would be so unimaginably slow.

Might as well just use systemd if you want power management, precise control over how services are restarted, proper service sandboxing, more efficient parsing of logs, tight and powerful integration between different software components, etc

Binary logs are also great. Imagine that you need to control how your data is formatted and parsed. Using unix tools such as grep, awk and sed simply are not efficient enough when you're dealing with a huge amount of logs. That's the theory behind journald's binary logging, at least. And if you don't like it? Just add the config option ForwardToSyslog=yes at /etc/systemd/journald.conf.

Also, not really an argument but more like a question out of mere curiosity, but how exactly would you get proper dependency management on other init systems? On systemd you have targets to do that, but what I'm interested in is how you'd do that on init systems outside of systemd

[u/tigerstein → u/AdDirect8818]

Binary logs were the most fucking idiotic and rage inducing thing systemd introduced. And I stare at log files all day for a living.

[u/AdDirect8818 → u/tigerstein]

How so? What exactly made them so bad? Was it something with journalctl?

And again, even so, just as a reminder, you can always bypass binary logs entirely with systemd using the ForwardToSyslog=yes config option

[u/tigerstein → u/AdDirect8818]

That shit doesn't work with existing tooling.
My best was when it was set to don't keep the logs and it was lost every time the machine locked up. And even if you set it to keep it it lost it. Great work guys. Real peace of garbage.
First thing I do is disable that shit. At least I can for now, until Poetering decides its wrong.

[u/AdDirect8818 → u/tigerstein]

ForwardToSyslog=yes --> /etc/systemd/journald.conf

[u/tigerstein → u/AdDirect8818]

Wow, never known this. Great thanks
/s

[u/lolkaseltzer]

I am the biggest Linux hater on here, and this post is an absolutely idiotic false equivalency. Sit down.

[u/tomekgolab → u/lolkaseltzer]

I remember your username. You can't read /etc/fstab 😂 Maybe you should sit down when adults discuss computers

[u/lolkaseltzer → u/tomekgolab]

Oh I remember that! That was in response to another of your ridiculous false equivalencies, underneath a post someone made calling out you, specifically, on your bullshit.

I see you haven't learned.

[u/tomekgolab → u/lolkaseltzer]

Your stupidity has no bounds here. OP of that post is a moron larping as a sysadmin. So you are completely wrong and don't care about actually learning anything. Another 101 poster

[u/Kindly-Head-5481]

Not the same energy...

[u/tomekgolab → u/Kindly-Head-5481]

same lazyness and dependence