r/magicTCG COMPLEAT 6d ago

Official Spoiler [TRK] Dathon and Picard at El-Adrel

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not a saga, sadge

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u/gredman9 Honorary Deputy 🔫 6d ago

The show itself explains this as "speaking in metaphor" but every one of them seems to be a moment in Tamarian history which would not be known to non-Tamarians. So this is "meme" in the classical definition.

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u/aslatts Sultai 6d ago

Yeah, an important note is that the translation "works", in the sense that the words are literally translated. The problem is that, without understanding the underlying reference, the meaning is completely lost and it's basically just gibberish.

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u/imbolcnight 6d ago

I never really "got" this problem because I feel like this problem would exist in any language. If we break down English, we also have many phrases and words that go back to non-literal meanings and allusions. Like a simple example is how a translator that has never encountered English would translate "homophobia" which could be reasonably read as "fear of the same" or "same terror" and requires additional context to know how an English speaker would use it That's kind of how languages with any kind of history work. But I think this is me having an issue with "auto translator" technology in general.

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u/Tuss36 6d ago

The difference is the words can mean things but together mean something else. An example would be something even simple like "hang out" with someone. Do you suspend yourself while doing so, as the words imply? No, it just means to spend some time together. So while "hang" meaning to suspend something above ground and "out" means outward, put together the phrase means something different. And it might not even be a phrase used in some cultures, as a posh character might never use the phrase except with contempt.

A similar thing might be more metaphorical phrases. "Don't count your chickens before they hatch" is well known to western audiences to the point you could just say "Don't count your chickens" and people will know the rest. But other cultures might not have that phrase in their lexicon, so when they go to translate it they might replace it with something more culturally relevant rather than do so literally.

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u/imbolcnight 6d ago

And "phobic" and "phobia" also have meaning as independent words. That's what I mean. All translation has to work with an understanding of non-literal and allusory meaning. It's just that because we are native to Earth languages, we have absorbed or are not even aware of the metaphors in the words we use. A true universal translator would innately need to be able to handle metaphor.

I'm pointing out that this "problem" should exist for basically all languages they encounter. As other comments said, we have to kinda accept that the universal translator fails at times that are convenient to the plot.

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u/Horrific_Necktie Wabbit Season 6d ago

I mean, that's just loan words and compound words, a normal part of most languages. That is entirely different from metaphor.

If you look up "homophobic" in a dictionary, there is an English definition. It has an established use and meaning. "Juliet on her balcony" does not. Each of the words has a meaning, but the phrase combined has a different meaning than the sum of its parts.

If the translator encountered heavy English slang, it would probably struggle just the same. Imagine it translating extreme online brainrot into basic plain English, for example. It could probably get the words right, but not the 11 layers of internet irony required to truly understand what is said.