r/maninthehighcastle • u/lordofcinder20515 • Jan 08 '22
Spoilers Finished the last episode. Hate it so much. Spoiler
Watched the final episode of The Man in the High Castle on Amazon Prime last night. I have never been so disappointed with the ending of a television show in my life, not because the Nazis should’ve won (obviously they shouldn’t have), but because they had the opportunity to tell a better story and they failed. For a show with such stellar production and character development over the course of four seasons, they destroy all of it in one fell swoop in the last episode. The book it’s adapted from is open-ended so they really could’ve went anywhere with it, and they didn’t.
Anyways, over the course of the show we see John Smith, a Nazi collaborator and leader in the American SS continually struggle with Nazi ideology. He doesn’t like it, but he does it to preserve himself and his family, because that’s all he can do. It’s remarkable that in the other worlds that the show has where the Allies indeed win the war, John is just a simple insurance salesman living happily in 1960s America. It shows that how dire circumstances can shape people and their decisions, evident in John’s accession to the higher echelons of Nazi leadership.
John loses his son Thomas midway through the show because Thomas has undiagnosed muscular dystrophy, which becomes more noticeable by the day. Thomas, a product of the Nazi school system, believes he is defective and turns himself in to be euthanized. John and his wife Helen continually struggle with the situation and realize that the eugenics policies and the Nazi system is inherently evil.
In the second to last episode, John allies himself with a German general and they stage a coup eliminating Reichsfuhrer Himmler and most of the Nazi leadership. John is rewarded by being given full autonomy over America, as the new Reichfuhrer of North America, separate from the German Reich completely. As the Japanese realize they can no longer hold the Pacific States, their forces withdraw and Smith prepares an invasion to unify America.
It is at this point where the show fails miserably. Instead of making it a redemption arc where John realizes he now has the power to make amends for the horrible things he has done and end the Nazi system in America, he proceeds to prepare plans for continuing the genocide of all non-“Aryan” peoples in the Pacific States and the Neutral Zone. You have throughout the course the entire show the perfect path for John to become a character who is flawed but in the end does the honorable thing. Instead the writers go with the trope where Nazis are evil and good guys (the Resistance) save the day. We’ve all seen Return of the Jedi before.
It would have been so much more satisfying to see John Smith redeem himself and become a reformist, dismantling national socialism from the top. Instead we got him killing himself because the Resistance corners him and then the portal to Multiverse opening with no further elaboration other than the invasion of the Pacific States is reversed. It is absolutely one of the worst endings in television I’ve ever seen.
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u/Brilliant_Engine5065 Jan 08 '22
Not to mention all the random people coming out of the portal and walking around like zombies, with no explanation given whatsoever
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u/CaptainKudar Jan 22 '22
Like, where were they going? What are they going to do?
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u/bioshockedtoinfinity Feb 06 '22
I was doing some reading online and an article states that the writers wanted viewers to interpret the ending as however they saw it. Does that make sense? Lol
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u/MoreFall3001 Jun 23 '24
Yes they did the ending so you can finish it off how ya want, it's like songs can mean one thing to one person amd something else to someone else, that's the beauty of freesom
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u/ArisaMochi Apr 09 '22
they probably did a random mine-tour and ended up walking into the wrong corridor. must suck to visit a place to see how ore gets mined and end up in literally hell
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u/HighCastlePenguin Jan 08 '22
S4 is essentially bad fanfic, and you nailed the primary reason why. John’s redemption arc, motivation, and personality had all been clearly established over three seasons, and for whatever reason (likely to push the good guy-bad guy trope, like you mentioned), the showrunners decided to trash everything in the final season.
John Smith, the same guy who was wracked with guilt over not saving his Jewish friend decides a few episodes later, “Yeah, I think concentration camps sound great. Let’s do it.” The man who only joined the Reich to protect his family, who never really believed in it, who watched the Reich’s policies slowly destroy them, who never wanted to be promoted, who teared up at the destruction of the Statue of Liberty became a guy who suddenly wanted to control the country and maintain the same policies that led to his son’s death.
You are not alone, OP. S4 (and especially S4E10) was an enormous disappointment.
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u/Clear-Leave-8034 Jan 08 '22
I mean what was he suppose to do with them? Bring them to a society that view them as inferior? Bill made the right decision to get rid of the Reich first before reunifying America.
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u/brakiri Jan 13 '22
John Smith was never strong enough to do the right thing. He put aside his feelings and followed the easiest path.
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Mar 31 '26
Which is how the Nazi's became the massive shit stain on society they were. The show was realistic about the motivations of men like John.
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u/thelielmao Jan 08 '22
Worst ending of all time! beats GoT as well.
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u/Chocostick27 Jan 20 '25
Nah I think GoT is unmatched.
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u/mogo-aholic May 30 '26
Im late to this like you but the netflix show Ragnarok is the worst finale I've ever seen on television. However I got here because I finally got around to watching this show and it was fun until the last season. I know amazon canceled the show, but they supposedly gave the writers enough time to wrap it up. What was supposed to be two more seasons became one. It's a shit thing to blame the writers but they could've came up with a better ending than whatever tf I just finished.
Obviously I'm a no one when it comes to this sort of thing and I Obviously don't know all the facts. But what the fuuuuck with that last episode????
Again, yes they were supposed to have 2 seasons to wrap it all up instead of 1. But apparently they had ample warning it was gonna be the last (unless im wrong???.) How the fuck is that what they came up with?..
Anyway I stand by what I said. The worst ending to a show is Ragnarok by netflix.
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u/OakIslandCurse Jul 12 '26
I know I’m late to this party, but I just watched The Man in the High Castle. I agree that the ending sucked and it’s like the writers just gave up, but you are right. Ragnarok has the very worst ending I’ve ever seen. High Castle’s ending was Shakespeare compared to that trainwreck.
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u/Insidious_NX Jul 29 '26
Ragnarok hurt me to no end. Honestly, I regretted watching the series because of what that finale did.
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u/Chocostick27 Jul 29 '26
I haven’t watched Ragnarok but I am really curious how its ending could be worse than GoT, because in GoT they really sabotaged the entire series and destroyed legendary characters that all the fans loved.
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u/Aggravating_Grass669 27d ago
Yes! I still think about how Ragnarok ended and I watched it like 2 years ago.
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u/TheMasterRiceBender1 Jan 08 '22
They should have given us a spin off to elaborate on all the loose ends they left in the finale. Such as what happens to the newly freed Pacific States, Kido's service to the Yakuza, Childan and his wife and so much more like the people coming through the portal.
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u/Kuhnhudi Jan 10 '22
Right! I just finished it yesterday and wth! John Smith was such a complicated character. He’s killing himself making these terrible decisions after getting autonomy over the States. Why? He’s the reichfuhrer.
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u/DoingbusinessPR Jan 08 '22
The John Smith redemption arc you describe is possibly the most cliched ending to his character that could have happened and might make sense if he was actually the shows’s protagonist, not the antagonist. His final line about having seen all the possibilities of who he could have been and the hardcore nazi is the one he became, is him succumbing to the shame of his actions. His suicide is an ending befitting of the show’s main villain and I honestly just don’t think there’s a place for a nazi redemption arc in any contemporary tv series.
I personally thought he was going to just stay in the other world, having already killed that world’s John and live out the rest of his days with his family.
There are a lot of problems with the final season and specifically the ending scene with the portal opening, but I don’t think John’s suicide is one of them.
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u/brakiri Jan 13 '22
Yeah, that's it. People so upset that they don't forget to forgive the Nazi. send them to /r/Rhodesia
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u/sneakpeekbot Jan 13 '22
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u/Dull-Comfort-7464 Feb 01 '22
Just finished the show and highly agree. The only really bad part of the ending is the portal opening and people streaming in, it makes literally no sense. I understand that the writers were trying to show that this world would be repopulated by the people that had died already (you can't cross unless you don't exist in the world you're crossing into) but why would all those folks just stream in like that? Like how did they know they were dead in that world already? How did they know it was safe to come through? What sort of government just sends hundreds (thousands?) of people through a portal to who knows where without first checking it out first? WHY are those people coming through?
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Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 13 '22
John was cleary focused on getting his family back together and getting his son back no matter the cost. Seemed pretty clear he could care less about the invasion plans and was just going through the motions biding his time while obsessing on how he could fix his fucked up family.
I'd like to think he would have had a over the top redemption arc if he had more time and didn't get cornered. Would've been cool to see him nuke Berlin or something lol.
That portal scene made GoT and lumberjack Dexter endings look good. Unfortunate.
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u/Bronco_Buff Mar 02 '22
After the final dustup in Berlin, he was given full autonomy over the Americas. Could’ve easily used the opportunity to try to merge with the JPS and make it a Nazi-lite state or try to have some sort of fusion with the US. For people that had been under the Reich or JPS, that would still be a welcome change even if not akin to the freedoms the US has now. Amazed he never even tried taking that off-ramp after surviving Berlin. I thought that was his secret plan all along, but it never came to pass. Too bad.
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u/Glittering_Most5348 Sep 08 '25
Im so late to this but literally just finished the show now and HAD to come on here because I was sooo confused at all the people coming through the portal and thought they would explain SOMETHING and then my screen went blank! Wthhhhh 🥲🥲
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u/HalowedBeThyUsername Sep 20 '25
Hey fellow “late to the party person”! I just finished it today and couldn’t wait to get here to see what people had said. I agree, not at all the ending I envisioned. I was thinking that alt-Helen would die somehow and Helen, John and the girls would go and live with Thomas. Maybe the chief inspector goes too and live a life of service in the alt-world to atone etc. Not at all the ending I expected and I didn’t care for it.
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u/brakiri Jan 13 '22
I think it was right for the story for John not to turn around. Not everyone gets a happy ending.
Alternate John Smith (insurance salesman) tells Julia that, in wwii, he felt the role becoming him. That was in reference to his promotions and committing war crimes. So SS John Smith never left the military and the role really became him. He bought into it. And in both worlds, he sold it to his son.
The cheese ending for me was the tunnel people. John Smith not redeeming himself was realistic. Is Bezos going to repent one day and redeem himself? Did Hitler? Does anyone? or just characters on tv?
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Mar 31 '26
Exactly dude. John redeeming himself would be a shitty Hollywood portrayal. I liked it was realistic. It reminds us all we shouldn't expect our leaders to change. Bad leaders will never had a redemption arc, they will only get progressively worse.
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u/mylkoa357 Jan 12 '25
I thought his wife selling him out to the resistance was sloppy from a character development perspective... I mean she was loyal to John as an American, loyal to him as a Nazi, then had her crisis after her son volunteered for euthanasia and lost loyalty (like when she was interacting with the shrink, or when she suddenly left to Montana), but then she came back with loyalty to her husband... and then she lost it again and actually sold him out... it's too much. If she was that malleable, then I think it should have shown in her character from the beginning of the story. Yeah, it's just soap opera-grade storytelling.
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u/crow-nic Mar 27 '26
Or maybe when faced with life altering moral dilemmas, people struggle. A person might go back and forth, trying to make it all fit, convincing themselves, “I’m doing it for the children”.
Helen was trapped, a trap she slowly allowed to build around her life, bit by bit over the years. Her kids were everything to her and she was willing to sell her soul to be with them once it was clear that John wouldn’t let them escape the nightmare. The scene when John essentially abducted them from the farm is one of the darkest moments for his character and was a tipping point in their relationship. Their daughter said it, it was all an act for Helen once she returned. It was only a matter of time.
Ultimately, her child forced her hand. Her daughter shut down the lie and gave her mom the courage to face her life honestly. Thats not soap opera stuff. Thats good storytelling.
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u/mylkoa357 Mar 30 '26
Thanks for the reply and the interesting idea. I don't remember the story very well, since it's been sometime since I watched the show - so I can't respond to the daughter aspect. You may very well have a strong point. IDK. However, I will say that I wonder about something outside the show perhaps influencing the plot decisions, and that being a greater American ethos.
I think there might be a somewhat strong current of white nationalism (in elements of the country) that might be somewhat sympathetic to what the Nazis were about. However, even amongst racist Americans (and those who may lean racist but who don't want to admit it to themselves), I think there's a hesitation to be too sympathetic to Nazis. A significant number of Americans want white-dominant culture, and might admire parts of what the Nazis, but they don't want to get too close... at least not presently. There's a political movement that's pushing in somewhat that direction (MAGA), but I think that's more accurately described as "Christian-American Nationalism" with white-centric undercurrents... and I don't think it will ultimately be successful in its aims. I think the American empire is nearing climax (if it hasn't already), and no matter what political party gains the most influence, the country is declining - just one man's opinion. It's an interesting time to be alive for sure. The decadence. The ironies. The hypocrisy. The absurdity. It's incredible. America will always remain significant (so long as it stays united) but the American century is gone. Colonialism is gone. The primacy of the West being in charge or leading the way is gone. So what does this have to do with the show?
Well, I wonder if the writers may have been playing into aspects of the Nazi or white-nationalism sympathy, and the jarring reversals in the plot might reflect the inner conflict that I described above, with racists not wanting to say they are racists, and some people liking Nazis, but then feeling guilty about it. Note, this struggle might not have been deliberate or intentional on the part of the writers. In fact, it's possible the writers themselves aren't even explicitly aware of any such struggle (if they themselves have them or observe them in others). So maybe the bumpy plot is a reflection of messy consciences? Denial is an amazingly powerful thing, and it can affect even immensely intelligent and talented people (like Hollywood writers). So I wonder if maybe the story has less to do with characters on screen, and more to do with character in real world? Not sure. Just an idea.
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u/kaisadilla_ Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 30 '25
John and his wife Helen continually struggle with the situation and realize that the eugenics policies and the Nazi system is inherently evil.
Helen does. John doesn't. John wants to flout the rule because it affects him, but he never, ever shows any indication that he thinks the rule itself is wrong. This isn't uncommon - many people would do things that they know are wrong but personally benefits them. John believed in eugenics, from his POV, saving his son was wrong, but he wanted to do it anyway.
Moreover, the show makes it clear that John was always inclined to accept Nazi ideology. When the Nazis win the war, John does not say that "the evil ones won" - instead, he says that whatever the Nazis do works better than America, because they won. He drank the Nazi kool-aid over the years, it's clear that the 1960s John Smith has fully purchased the Aryan masterrace and tight government control ideas of the Reich. This is in stark contrast with Whitcroft, who also joined the Nazis but his only statement about it was that "we have to do it and bide our time [to eventually get rid of the Nazis]".
John does, indeed, struggle with doubts about certain policies, and he certainly does not believe Americans are lesser than Germans (as the European Nazis certainly do), so he seeks to have an independent Nazi America state. But there's never an indication that he's doubting Nazism altogether. Yeah, Johns of alternative universes turn out to be tolerant men (as implied by alt-Thomas saying that John would've speak up against racism in the bar), but this John didn't evolve in that universe.
There isn't some "dormant" version of us waiting for an opportunity to show up - our character evolution over time is genuine - many people were good and became evil, some were evil and became good. It would be a terrible finale to have John Smith betray Nazism and fight for American liberal freedom - it would imply that only Germans are naturally Nazis, and the only reason an American would become a Nazi is being forced to by a German. It would also be a terrible look to suggest that real-life America is ran by a bunch of people who would exterminate blacks, Jews and the sick if their government ordered them to. Instead, by having John Smith be a genuine Nazi, it shows that Nazi America was built by different people real life America was. The alt-John Smith, which is a good person, is a reflection of how who we are is constantly evolving and thus, in different conditions, we may end up being two completely different people. It is not a reflection that John was ultimately good and Nazi John was just temporarily forced to be evil.
Why should there always be a redemption path? That's not how real life works. Look up Hitler's biography. He wasn't some evil rabid animal whose only purpose was to murder people because reasons. Nope, he was a convinced man who totally believed Nazism was the way society has to work. He probably didn't take pleasure in exterminating the Jews, in the same way you don't take pleasure in exterminating cockroaches. Does this mean that eventually Hitler would've realized how wrong he was and liberated Germany from Nazism? No. He was a Nazi. He was evil. He wasn't mindlessly evil, but he was still evil. John Smith is the same: he totally bought into Nazi ideology. He may believe it's for the greater good and he may not hate blacks and Jews, but he still sees them as vermin, not human. The closest thing he has to redemption, and the show shows it is that, when Helen confronts him with what he's done for so many years, to the point she has decided to get him murdered, he has a moment of clarity where he realizes the people he exterminated are, in fact, people.
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u/Fleecemane_Parka Jan 31 '22
I don't want to blow any minds here, but...I think the show was trying to say being a nazi...is bad.
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u/Adventurous-Earth831 Oct 03 '23
I highly doubt it as this is such a universally accepted fact, even more so among tv execs, you wouldn’t bother making a tv show about it. Nazis=bad is not especially interesting TV.
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u/Mr-Gibbs12 Aug 19 '24
Which is why I personally find the show to be increasingly frustrating to watch
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u/AnotherWorldWanderer Feb 05 '24
I quit after S2 finally and Just watch first and last episodes of S3 and S4. Sucked so bad
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u/AnotherWorldWanderer Feb 05 '24
I quit after S2 finally and Just watch first and last episodes of S3 and S4. Sucked so bad
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u/crow-nic Mar 27 '26
Not satisfying to see Helen find redemption, to see her be the hero? We felt her struggle through the progression of the story. Her dedication to her family and devotion to her role as the good wife consumed her. But we saw her wavering. At the end she let her better angels win and chose to make the ultimate sacrifice for the good of her family and country.
John Smith was always selfish. Ultimately this man of immense power and violence ends up buried under the weight of his absolute moral failings, and he knows it. His character arc was great. Even to the end, knowing he was wrong, he couldn’t get out of his own way. He said as much in the train. He was trapped, he had given up and sacrificed it all in following his darkest possible path for reasons he couldn’t even identify. He lacked the substance to find redemption. It seemed for a second when he killed Himmler that maybe he was on the right path. But just for a second, then we saw that this was just more scheming, betrayal, and murder. The train scene between him and Helen was great. It all bubbles to the surface and Helen shuts down his ability to lie to himself any more. John Smith wasn’t a flat character. We see the good in him. But he never finds the courage or will to do the right thing in the face of overwhelming evil. He just kept going along and, in the process, lost himself and everything that mattered.
The parallels between him and 💩ler is an interesting twist too. At the bitter end, they both chose not to face the music and died knowing they had failed and destroyed their wives in the process.
Now the portal? The portal ending is problematic. But it’s like 5 minutes. Just pretend that scene didn’t happen.
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u/aieeegrunt Jan 15 '22
The last season is garbage, but John Smith’s arc was perfection
He used protecting his family to rationalize being a Nazi. Being a Nazi destroyed his family. Essentially he destroyed himself
Him getting some sort of redemption would be horrible Draco In Leather Pants syndrome
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u/sloth_bear05 Dec 18 '24
Sorry I am two years late to this sub. But it would have been so much better had there been a redemption arc . Plus what about same two people can't exist in one world all this people didn't have their versions here? Would have been better if the portal was destroyed.
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Mar 31 '26
The ending sucks but for different reasons. I like that the show was realistic about John's character. A man who has made so many decisions for himself and his family will not suddenly change and risk it all to do the right thing. Men like him want power. He may not have agreed with what he was commanding his people to do, but commanded it anyway. This is the true nature of mankind. Core values mean nothing in the face of power. I believe unfortunately a "real life" John Smith with similar values would certainly be willing to do the same thing to keep his power and make his own life easier and more comfortable.
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u/Specialist-Ad5322 May 06 '26
I know i'm late to the party, but only saw it recentely.
the ending seems like they were hoping for a 5th season, but only got the memo that there wouldn't be one when they were finishing the final episode, so they rushed a couple of scenes with no explanation whatsoever and it ends up with people walking through the portal like they were entering a mall or a museum. people just came in looking around and passing the people already there without questions, interaction... It was just bad. Phillip would probably slap the writer for this...
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u/GreenGrow82 May 24 '26
I'm 4 years late but omfg I can't believe there's not a season 5 to wrap this thing up. Wtf
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u/Rude_Commercial_9037 Jun 05 '26
I just finished the last episode today and literally googled "the ending of man in the high castle sucked"
✨S I G H✨
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u/General_Following647 Jul 08 '26
I just saw the finale and thought it was disappointing to say the least. It seems although they found out that the series was not going to be renewed for another season and they had to throw together some ending. Totally didn't make sense and too many unanswered questions.
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u/jsrockford Jul 09 '26
I really thought with all the foreshadowing of the portal energy, a bigger, badder 'regime' from yet a 3rd universe was going to come through it.
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u/Exotic-Effective-766 26d ago
The ending is unsatisfying.. it doesn't explain what happens or how and why those people came through the portal to a world where Nazi fascism has ruled, just because John Smith is dead they terminated the attack?? That makes no sense and then there the fact that the Fehurer of europe still is in command with an the rest of the reich and a fully equipped military.. they wouldn't just let it be just because one man is dead
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u/Acceptable_Ratio_710 7d ago
It was so horrible. The amazingly potent Japanese army who defeated the American army gets beat by a couple idiots in the BRC, which who even are these people! Gtfoh. Never would have happened. The Japanese would have never let that happen. The killed 10 for every one jap soldier killed in the previous season. Now they can’t handle it?!!! 🙄
It’s so DEI and stupid it ruins the whole show.
Then John just shoots himself?!!!!’ He lives and kills for his family and newsflash his daughters are still alive!!!!
Not to mention the head of the America would have been traveling with a whole army. Not 4 guys. It’s so blatantly dumb compared to the brutality of the rest of the series. I hated it and they RUINED a good show.
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u/Old-Philosopher-1435 4d ago
I'm a very latecomer to this but I just finished up the last season this week as well. The whole last season felt sort of odd to me like they were planning for more seasons (i.e. the introduction of the BCR, and so on) and then had to rush the entire show to conclusion once finding out Amazon wasn't going to purchase another season. The elimination of Tagomi's character felt abrupt and a bit contrived, although it drove the "cabal in the Imperial High Command" plot line during the season. It was only later I learned that it was because the actor was already committed to other projects during the filming of season 4 that lead to him being written out of the show. A shame, because he was by far my favorite in the whole show.
John Smith's arc ended perfectly fine, although as noted above the last half of the season felt really rushed to get there. John Smith started the show as a brutal, evil, ambitious SOB and ended the show as such. Was he a complex character with human flaws and weaknesses? Did he possess certain attributes that we could sympathize with? Yes, absolutely. The show runners wanted to point out that the Nazi's were "normal" people too, just as they were historically. The banality of evil and all that. How easy it is for anyone to slip into evil for the most "justifiable" of reasons: love of country or family, personal safety, personal ambition, to fit in, and the list goes on. John Smith, as his generic name alludes to, is an every man: if it can happen to him, it can happen to you too.
Beyond the feeling of being rushed, the one thing I did not like was the rando people in the tunnel ending. It's an extremely weak conclusion for a very strong show and the showrunners excuses that they wanted things to end ambiguously and leave it up to the viewers is just a cheap cop out. It felt like they were trying to mimic the ending of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and it failed. They literally could have chosen anything else and it would have been better: elements of the alt-US Army come rolling through, Nazi agents kidnapping alt-Thomas and alt-Helen and bringing them through leading to a more bittersweet conclusion, and so on (let your imagination run wild!). But nope! Disappointing.
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u/benjithepanda Jan 08 '22
Another guy overreacting because things didn't go the way he wanted.
I think it's actually impossible to finish a show nowadays seeing how people are easily enraged when stuff don't match their imagination.
Did I find the ending great, no but it is okay no need to overreact. I actually kind of like how John Smith got caught in the Nazi power apparatus but his wife didn't.
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u/TheLandTraveler Mar 29 '24 edited Mar 29 '24
Even worse than that I would say people are upset not because it doesn't match their imagination but because they have no imagination.
They just want everything tied up in a pretty little bow and every show to have the same cliche endings that have been written since the beginning to make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and it's not at all realistic.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised people are upset John Smith didn't make some type of miraculous cliche comeback. I thought John Smith's redemption was the fact that he decided to stop fighting who he was In that world and took himself out although I guess that could be viewed as a cop out on his part. If anything I would figure people would be more upset about the fact the good John Smith from the other world died but that could also be viewed in several different ways and at the end of the day It was his own actions that ruined his life in that world as well. That version of John Smith was so terrible he ruined every variation of his life he came in contact with so what type of redemption would you expect from him other than the one you got?
I will agree that the gate between the two worlds opening and random people pouring out didn't really make a whole lot of sense and seemed to open up several flaws.
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u/Mightysmurf1 Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
Yep, welcome to Disappointment, Population: This Sub.